2BGoodAgain Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I'm creating this thread under infidelity, b/c simply put... it was after my affair ended, that I felt a profound sudden loss as to what being in love really was... that thing between two partners.. that being in love feeling, that fate/destiny/random universe level coincidence... You see quotes, movies, music, stories... epic and simple, comedic and dramatic... about that incredible connection, chemistry, blah blah blah... I've been placing all sorts of quotes on what love is under "Red Flag" ... b/c honestly, those phrases described what I had with my AP perfectly... and yet, that wasn't love... so i feel like i know what isn't love, but what is love then? I realize it's different for everyone... but how do YOU define it? What is "Love"? How do you see it? How do you know it's real vs some bio chemical flare up or some psycho-babble onion peeling your past thing vs hormones flaring up, or mid life crisis or what? Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 = emotional attachment that occurs and grows and reconstitutes with time, interaction and intimacy. For some love is a part of infidelity, for others not. The more a person is into themselves and others serve to service them, the less likely love will be a part of the equation of infidelity, and for some, even their marriages. I used to call such M's 'marriages of convenience'. Image, social status, lifestyle, progeny, it served a purpose. For a long time in the past marriages were a business arrangement, mostly, to serve up heirs. Infidelity has existed as long as humans have existed, IMO. Part of the milieu of humanity. Some partake, others don't. Same with anything else. Free will. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2BGoodAgain Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, carhill said: = emotional attachment that occurs and grows and reconstitutes with time, interaction and intimacy. For some love is a part of infidelity, for others not. The more a person is into themselves and others serve to service them, the less likely love will be a part of the equation of infidelity, and for some, even their marriages. I used to call such M's 'marriages of convenience'. Image, social status, lifestyle, progeny, it served a purpose. For a long time in the past marriages were a business arrangement, mostly, to serve up heirs. Infidelity has existed as long as humans have existed, IMO. Part of the milieu of humanity. Some partake, others don't. Same with anything else. Free will. thank you. interesting prospective. but if we go by that definition, so long as the infidelity isn't "selfish"/self-seeking... it's love? that seems to invite further potential infidelity, if the conditions are right... i'd like to avoid that. :) Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 More likely, IMO yes. The further we move outside the id and selfishness and into other humans mattering the more likely emotional attachment and love will exist. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 It IS a conveniently vague term, isn't it. Here's a post from a while back with some thoughts and possible definitions: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/579557-any-mms-in-the-house-how-did-you-compartmentalize-after-dday/?do=findComment&comment=7547319 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Further thought - a proverb - If love is not madness, it is not love. That's not long term bonding they're talking about, it's the cray-cray of NRE and/or limerence, possibly even trauma-bonding. However, I think a percentage of folks out there actually wouldn't agree with that proverb based on what I've seen posted here. Of course, there are some who would. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2BGoodAgain Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, mark clemson said: Further thought - a proverb - If love is not madness, it is not love. That's not long term bonding they're talking about, it's the cray-cray of NRE and/or limerence, possibly even trauma-bonding. However, I think a percentage of folks out there actually wouldn't agree with that proverb based on what I've seen posted here. Of course, there are some who would. Thanks for the link. omg, it was a seriously good discussion going on there about men and emotional bonding and the counter argument. I think the women were mistaking "emotional bonding" with "addiction". When you're addicted to that good feeling, sex is the like the symptom/proof... my A lasted 12 years, and 2 long term relationships of my own, and we prob met 3x in those 12 years.. lots of conversation between... and i have to say, one of the lingering questions afterwards is.. how did i end up emotionally distraught when upon reflection, for 12 yrs i was using her to supplement my low self esteem/ego boosting and she was the one asking me to make a new life with her. Sure i liked her, and we had fun and our chemistry was excellent. But for over 10yrs she was asking me to leave my relationship for her(though she was serious, if she knew or understood just how hard that is, i still don't really know.. did she? [shrug]).... and i was trying to be nice and not blowing her off too badly... but somehow, at the end, i'm the one thinking about her incessantly and going insane over it...and after months of trying to quantify the relationship, the addiction i felt towards her, etc... i'm at a loss as to what that was... i'm not distraught now, i think... but it's where she's constantly in my mind... and i'm trying not to think about her... b/c i realize there's no point in it.. it's done. But something in me isn't clicking properly... i'm missing something... my AP and I had an A. It was an addiction of sorts, an escape from the realities of our imperfect/stuck relationships. She moved on to another guy. Somehow, I ended up distraught, whereas for the past 12 years she was the one always pining over me... is it just an ego trip gone bad and that's what i'm suffering from? Thanks Mark, I really enjoyed that link. It gave some great insights... even if it didn't quite answer whatever it is my mind is seeking. As for that proverb.... i think people use "love" too loosely... i think the closest example for the way i feel is... having years of partying, laughing, drinking, seeing great sights, that intensity...... then being exiled to a small town where the excitement of the day is... watching a cow walking across the middle of town..... But that's the addiction, right? that intensity? that high? Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Not sure, but yes perhaps that is an addiction. It sounds like it's difficult for you to be "content" with regular reality now? Often if you have intrusive thoughts of the other person that's limerence (break up limerence in your case). But not sure that's actually what's doing on. Maybe you can research it and decide? Dunno, perhaps you couldn't benefit from some IC? Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2BGoodAgain Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, mark clemson said: Not sure, but yes perhaps that is an addiction. It sounds like it's difficult for you to be "content" with regular reality now? Often if you have intrusive thoughts of the other person that's limerence (break up limerence in your case). But not sure that's actually what's doing on. Maybe you can research it and decide? Dunno, perhaps you couldn't benefit from some IC? I may need to find another therapist.... after 2 sessions with him, I don't think he sees me... he's too busy categorizing me into some box, and fitting me into it, based on what he hears.. he actually eats nuts while i talk... This being my first therapist... i don't know if that's normal... anyone? lol. at any rate, I don't think it's break up limerence... it isn't intense or so overwhelming... I don't crave any sexual reconnection with her... oddly enough... i don't think i even miss our conversations, like i used to... but life after the A... feels so... blah... must be the lows after the highs of the A. it makes me angry, that i'm preoccupied with such thoughts... angry with myself. I'm better than this. I figure i'm just rationalizing that somehow my feelings for my AP was something bordering on love, to justify thinking about her... or us... drives me up the wall, that it's distracting me like this... I need to go work out again... those guys in there think i'm a freak... i go in there for like half a day, sometimes. lol Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, 2BGoodAgain said: At any rate, I don't think it's break up limerence... it isn't intense or so overwhelming... I don't crave any sexual reconnection with her... oddly enough... i don't think i even miss our conversations, like i used to... but life after the A... feels so... blah... must be the lows after the highs of the A. Got it + makes sense. Try to find a therapist that genuinely specializes in what your looking for. (Not quite sure, but you probably know. Addiction? Depression?) A lot of them will list like 15-20 "specialties". You can't specialize in 20 things IMO Find out where the bulk of their experience really is, e.g. when you call them to do the appt. And yeah if you don't like one just move on. Believe they vary widely in quality. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Love is madness Link to post Share on other sites
The Outlaw Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, alphamale said: Love is madness I'll drink to that. Link to post Share on other sites
Beentheretoooften Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 7 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said: my A lasted 12 years, and 2 long term relationships of my own, and we prob met 3x in those 12 years.. lots of conversation between... and i have to say, one of the lingering questions afterwards is.. how did i end up emotionally distraught when upon reflection, for 12 yrs i was using her to supplement my low self esteem/ego boosting and she was the one asking me to make a new life with her. @2BGA I think your A with her was love. I really do. You felt it during and after and still do now? Isn’t that one of the definitions. My A was almost a decade, and I’m moving on but continue to struggle and think about her just as you do. How far are you removed? The definitions have such a wide range. I loved AP (still do) I also love my W. It’s just different. So right here, there’s 2 totally different definitions. I don’t buy that you cannot be in love in an A. And I know you have pounded on the fact of fantasy love, fantasy sex etc. it still counts in my book. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 in the end, what difference does it make? all this time spent analyzing a relationship that is over accomplishes what, exactly? It just keeps feeding the beast. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2BGoodAgain Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, pepperbird said: in the end, what difference does it make? all this time spent analyzing a relationship that is over accomplishes what, exactly? It just keeps feeding the beast. I'm a firm believer that if you don't know WHY it happened, you're doomed to repeat it... it's not good enough to just with sheer will power say you'll never do it again... all we see is the result.. and think, i'm never going to make that mistake again... but honestly, unless we know WHY we did it, we're basically blind to it. that A is over. it's done. But just saying you'll never do it again, isn't good enough... there are no 100% answers/actions... i get that... but understanding how it led up to that point... may help me to recognize it before it does again. Either that, or just refuse to talk to anyone of the opposite gender, other than relatives... I'm part of that group of individuals, who wants to know the why/the truth/the reasons.. no matter the pain or suffering... it helps us move forward. I'm not asking why it's over, or what went wrong... i'm looking for what love is, b/c this A has destroyed whatever solid foundation I had on the definition of it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2BGoodAgain Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 5:18 PM, alphamale said: Love is madness so are affairs... that's one of the quotes under my "Red Flag" folders... lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2BGoodAgain Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 10:51 PM, Beentheretoooften said: @2BGA I think your A with her was love. I really do. You felt it during and after and still do now? Isn’t that one of the definitions. My A was almost a decade, and I’m moving on but continue to struggle and think about her just as you do. How far are you removed? The definitions have such a wide range. I loved AP (still do) I also love my W. It’s just different. So right here, there’s 2 totally different definitions. I don’t buy that you cannot be in love in an A. And I know you have pounded on the fact of fantasy love, fantasy sex etc. it still counts in my book. I'll have to gently disagree....and I wasn't asking if my A was love... i'm asking what IS love? thought very very rare few may become love... if both sides work on it, be honest, etc... it's such a slim chance of it working out vs not working out... majority are not. Yes, i cared about her, and i hurt many times, realizing how much I hurt her by refusing her... at the same time, i also recognize how incredibly selfish i was of her... and she towards me... no love is perfect.... we're humans... we make mistakes, sometimes we get selfish, or greedy or angry... sometimes we say things we don't mean, or didn't mean to say outloud... and it could still be love... but i want to get perspective from others who have experienced more, or wiser than i..., how they define it... not to copy it or let that become my definition, but to get enough variable answers out there to come up with some sort of conclusion for myself... how i interpret love, believe love to be... b/c i'm totally lost atm... Link to post Share on other sites
spiritedaway2003 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) I'm none the wiser in the matters of love, or I would not have be caught up in an a A. That had dramatically toppled the way I see the world onto its side. Love, the way I've always defined it, is a sprinkle of all of the following: - Having care for other person, accepting as she or he is. - Having that intangible chemistry/passion - you either have it or you don't. - Having compatibility (multiple layers) - Having good communication with each other. The A didn’t change my view of love should be, except added in one more that someone already posted. “Love is madness”. It is madness. Edited January 16, 2020 by spiritedaway2003 Link to post Share on other sites
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