HadMeOverABarrel Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 8:20 PM, LilKatKat said: I didn't say he was a catch. Someone upthread asked if he was hot. The answer is yeah, he's better than average and far above most men his age. For the record, I have been seeing someone 8 years younger last month or so. So please folks, let's not jump to conclusions. He did me a solid 2 years ago and I'm returning the favour. That's who I am and who I've always been. I don't hate him. And I actually know him in real life. He has many good qualities. Perhaps my nature is to look for the good in people. It seems he has been a miserable and conflicted person who has made bad choices and learned from them. I would totally be enjoying my fling with the 8 years younger guy. MM did you a solid, and he also put you through hell. You didn't scourge him for it. Isn't that repayment enough? LKK, you have soooo many good qualities. I truly know/have lived your story. I hope you will do yourself a solid by staying off this emotional rollar coaster ride, and enjoying your life to the FULLEST!!! A carribean cruise, fling with young guy...a good start to 2020! Here's to hoping 99.99% of your energy goes this direction rather than finding ways to do MM a solid. Cheers and love to you! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Just know this: women who know their worth and have that elusive, sexy self-confidence would never assume their place in a harem of women that a man thinks he's entitled to. And ironically that's the one he's going to want the most - you and the others, too. Isn't that what his ACTIONS have proven to you since you've known him? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Kat, I am truly saddened to read this update. After you left him, this married man went back on AM and found himself yet another OW... And now he is back, and you are still making excuses for him. When will it end... 7 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 In your dodging a nuclear bomb update, you talked about how much clearer you were after 16 weeks of NC. You said that ending it was the right thing and you seemed clear on his faults. I wonder if, by keeping the door open with him, you have allowed yourself the possibility of addressing your wound with the bandaid of "but see, he came back and he wants me again." I'm sure that if your new girlfriends knew that you were making various excuses to keep seeing someone you know is bad for you, that they would vehemently object. A picture isn't more important than your well being and your moving forward. Informing BW, but then feeling the need to warn xMM . . . have you considered that you are getting something out of being engaged in this drama triangle? I believe that you did make progress during the time apart from xMM, and you can build on that, but it will require being fully honest with yourself, calling BS on the excuses for contact, and relying on yourself and yourself alone to be the reason that you are worthy. Because you are. But the chances that xMM will ever deserve you are slim to none, and slim is gravely ill. His interest in you is not a compliment because he cannot and will not offer you the healthy relationship you deserve. And we could all go to a bar tonight and find some loser to have an unhealthy relationship with us. We often advise to look at actions, not words. XMM claims that he will move mountains to be who you deserve (despite the odd fact that he apparently ended his marriage for a different OW). Those are just words. You say that you are healing differently and only contacting him because of various special circumstances, but if your words don't match your actions (meaning, if they don't SHOW healing) then they are just words. If you're not in IC, please make that (make YOU) a priority. And if you are, have you spoken about all of this? 8 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Allupinnit said: Just know this: women who know their worth and have that elusive, sexy self-confidence would never assume their place in a harem of women that a man thinks he's entitled to. And ironically that's the one he's going to want the most Oh I don't know. All other things being equal, if I had a (consenting) choice between 1 woman and 5, I suspect I would take the 5. Now if I was in love (e.g. limerence) with that one woman, yeah, I'd still want her instead no doubt. But in "normal" mode I don't think so. Of course attempting a LTR with 5 would probably cause it's own problems so there's that to consider. Decisions, decisions... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beentheretoooften Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 When you are in an affair. And have all those affair feelings. They never truly 100% go away. It can take one minute to undo work you’ve done for years. One conversation, one laugh, one personal Inside joke. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy47 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 2:43 PM, mark clemson said: Oh I don't know. All other things being equal, if I had a (consenting) choice between 1 woman and 5, I suspect I would take the 5. Now if I was in love (e.g. limerence) with that one woman, yeah, I'd still want her instead no doubt. But in "normal" mode I don't think so. Of course attempting a LTR with 5 would probably cause it's own problems so there's that to consider. Decisions, decisions... Is that ever likely to happen for you Clem???? I hope you let us know if it does. LOL Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Not likely, I admit. And that's ok... 🙂 🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 op, am I right that you met with him and walked away, no further contact? ( sorry if I have it mixed up). If I am right in my assumption, how did it make you feel? Was it empowering to see for yourself that you could walk away? if that's what happened, I'm going to go against the flow and say it may be you did the right thing. Seeing and proving to yourself that you have the strength to leave him in the rear view mirror can be really important. If I misunderstood your post, I am sorry you met with him. I don't think you can trust him. You are no longer the person you were when you first fell for him, and you should be able to trust yourself though- make sure you protect yourself from his possible attempt to reel you back in, Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 6:40 PM, S2B said: And I was under the impression by your other posts the past few months that you cut him off for good knowing he wasn’t any good for you/your future. and to find out you’ve been back in contact for several months. Go figure. I told him I was never going to be the other woman again. We would not just pick up where we left off. Keeping in touch is one thing, resurrecting an affair quite another and out of the question. On 1/19/2020 at 1:27 PM, Allupinnit said: Just know this: women who know their worth and have that elusive, sexy self-confidence would never assume their place in a harem of women that a man thinks he's entitled to. And ironically that's the one he's going to want the most - you and the others, too. Isn't that what his ACTIONS have proven to you since you've known him? You are quite correct. I am not and will not be part of the harem. So here is what he has done. He has sent me his signed lease agreement, his current airbnb reservation. He has forwarded the OOW's emails showing they broke up, has sent me his "share location" from his phone and his passcode. Apparently he has deleted pictures, texts, contact info and blocked her but not before I had her full name, phone number and email in the interest of transparency with me. He has said he wants to go to counselling with me to show me he is truly willing to work on us and that I am the one he loves and does not want to spend his life without. He has been very emotional in his apologies and seeking forgiveness. He even has said that he will accept it if I want to continue seeing this new guy until I'm comfortable that he means it. I asked him if he realizes that providing me with location share and phone passcode boxes him in because if he ever revokes it the reason will be obvious- he has something to hide. He acknowledges that it places him in a position where he has no wiggle room but he's ok with that. He (according to him) has been an honest person his entire life and the dishonesty has been eating away at him. He has become someone he can't recognize or live with which is why he confessed to BS and broke up with OOW, because while he cared about her, I am the one he loves. He is also starting IC. He admits he has been conflict avoidant his entire life and realizes that avoidance may make things "easier" in the now but so much more difficult in the long term and that dealing with issues is a whole lot easier than not, in the long haul. Perhaps he has had an epiphany, perhaps it's just tales. Time will tell. I do know that what he has expressed is exactly how I felt 2 years ago and I have changed. Where there is life, there is hope. That said, I am no longer prone to blind faith and I am showing him that I am holding firm. He may never prove himself or by some miracle, he may. In the end, not gonna lie, I feel like I have more power than I've ever had. It isn't his terms like before. We interact on my terms and that's exactly how it will stay. I won't dance the pick me dance. I'm not even asking to be picked. I don't need to be picked and he knows it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Good grief, you aren’t his mother. If a man has to forward emails, share locations, and passcodes, he’s not worth your time. How many chances?? He’s a loser. No upstanding man has to go to such lengths to prove his worth. Who wants to be a mans keeper??? That’s not a place I see any woman fighting for. Set him free for someone who needs a child to take care of. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 So this is what you want to base a relationship on? You want a relationship that you have to keep tabs on his every move? Let me tell you from experience, it is absolute CRAZY making. The kind I have yet to recover from. Let me also state, I had all the possible ways to confirm what he said and did. Yet he was STILL able to get around them... He has said this same song and dance many times. I still cannot believe you fall for it. This man got another OW for haven's sake. He legit broke it off with you saying he was going to focus on his marriage and then immediately went and got himself a new OW. And you are actually considering this man as a great man, someone worthy of putting your heart in his hands... AGAIN... after he crushed it how many times? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 3:39 PM, LilKatKat said: He has been there for me again since October in supporting me through the trials and tribulations with Satan. Is there no one else you can get to give you support other than him? Do you have friends? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Crazelnut Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) Pathetic. This man is a horrible person, not your savior who "did you a solid." You are still under his spell. FYI, meeting him for coffee & dinner & listening to his protestations of love defines a relationship with him. You don't have to be having sex to be in a relationship. And man, he is one clever guy! This lying, slick azzhole even has you thinking that YOU are empowered here! Ha! You know that the best thing to do is cut off all contact with him. Why are you incapable of doing this? Why are you maintaining contact? Going to dinner with someone who put you through hell and is a turd of a human being? The title of this thread is bewildering. You're not sure what to make of this man? He is a lying, cheating, opportunistic, self-centered jerk. Why are you not clear on that? Edited January 27, 2020 by Crazelnut 4 Link to post Share on other sites
spiritedaway2003 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Crazelnut said: The title of this thread is bewildering. You're not sure what to make of this man? He is a lying, cheating, opportunistic, self-centered jerk. Why are you not clear on that? Because whether it’s naive or not, some people actually believe that others are capable of change. That a person isn’t defined by one mistake they make in their lives? That, if they themselves, are capable of change, others can too? That they knew the person before things went to hell? And that they understand they screwed up, they are going through hard times too and need some support, even just as a friend? That there is still goodness there, for the same reasons some BS take back their cheating (but remorseful) spouse? Do I think the OP’s MM is a selfish opportunistic jerk based on the way he treated her? Totally. He sounds like the biggest prick there is. Do I think the above doesn’t apply to him? No. I would just advise the OP to proceed with caution, that’s all. Edited January 27, 2020 by spiritedaway2003 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) Girl you guys met on Ashley Madison so this is the type of relationship you set out to get. Well you got it. Edited January 27, 2020 by Allupinnit 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Quote He has sent me his signed lease agreement, his current airbnb reservation. He has forwarded the OOW's emails showing they broke up, has sent me his "share location" from his phone and his passcode. Please don't let yourself get sucked back in. Don't be his soft place to land. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, BTDT2012 said: Please don't let yourself get sucked back in. Too late... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 16 hours ago, LilKatKat said: In the end, not gonna lie, I feel like I have more power than I've ever had. It isn't his terms like before. We interact on my terms and that's exactly how it will stay. I won't dance the pick me dance. I'm not even asking to be picked. I don't need to be picked and he knows it. After xAP and I got back in contact the second time, I had a "new" mindset: I was going to be the one in control this time. And there was a part of me that thought: I'll end it on my terms, and treat him the same way he treated me, and then he'll know how it feels. I felt I had the power at this point in the relationship, the power to end it at any time my way. But here's what happened: I got sucked in and we fell into the same pattern as the first time, him doing his thing and me always wondering why. And then he pretty much ghosted me again, and I found myself exactly where I'd been before. I offer this example for two reasons: Is there a part of you, deep down, who is re-engaging because you feel you have the power and can get back at him? I don't think that's necessarily a "bad" thing, but something to recognize. And secondly, patterns in a relationship are really, really hard to break. I've done a lot of work on myself in the ten years since my d-day, but even still I sometimes find myself saying/doing something with my husband that's part of an old (pre-A) pattern. When one is upset/angry/sad/tired it's easy to fall into old patterns and coping skills. Just something to think about. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Aloha123 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) Hi LKK -- I am coming out of a long hibernation from commenting, but I'm not gonna lie I was so disappointed to read your update that I felt compelled to come on here and post just to say that . . . . You are better than this!!!!!!!! Look, I know it's flattering during the groveling stage, but please see this as the "up part" of the up and down roller coaster that this will continue to be. Just remember that the down part of the cycle is BAD. Quit while you are ahead, with your dignity in tact. I realize this is easier said than done. A few resources that have helped me move on are a website called post male syndrome and a book called the No Contact Rule by Natalie Lue. Once you fully see these destructive relationships for what they are, it's hard to continue on in them with a blind eye to the truth. Edited January 28, 2020 by Aloha123 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Abetterme Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hi Aloha! Good to see you back, and not to TJ, but hope you are well! In seeing Aloha perk up on the boards, I revisited a thread where you really broke down a lot about your xMM, Kat. It was interesting reading given your recent updates Kat and maybe worth your while to re-read as you jump headfirst back into this thing. Recently I was chatting with some colleagues at an outing. One of them is a dating a younger gal and was discussing how they use “tracking” as apparently that’s the thing now. He brought up how she would disable this functionality “when she wanted to hide” and always had a bunch of excuses as to why. Luckily he is a very detached guy who sees her for exactly what she is and is fine with the game. What it left me was with a very sad feeling that people have to live that way. Is that really the kind of relationship you want? Somebody you have to track and follow every minute of the day? In with Stars....that’s crazy making. If this is truly what you want, I wish you the very best. For what it’s worth, I think you are worthy of far more. You say often you couldn’t ever go back because to much had happened. A baggage free start at a life is what I wish for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author PhoenixRising8 Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 9:36 AM, spiritedaway2003 said: Because whether it’s naive or not, some people actually believe that others are capable of change. That a person isn’t defined by one mistake they make in their lives? That, if they themselves, are capable of change, others can too? That they knew the person before things went to hell? And that they understand they screwed up, they are going through hard times too and need some support, even just as a friend? That there is still goodness there, for the same reasons some BS take back their cheating (but remorseful) spouse? Do I think the OP’s MM is a selfish opportunistic jerk based on the way he treated her? Totally. He sounds like the biggest prick there is. Do I think the above doesn’t apply to him? No. I would just advise the OP to proceed with caution, that’s all. Thank you spirited away. I believe people have the capacity to change if they really want to. He has come clean to BS and to me. He didn't have to. Isn't that the common consensus? Own your mistakes as that's the only way you can start to heal. He's done that but is still being vilified. Maybe I'm just not jaded enough ... maybe I've seen the impact this has had on him physically. That's not something you can fake He has been at an airbnb for the last 2 weeks and has signed a lease starting Feb 1. I have seen both the reservation for the airbnb as well as the signed lease. I also was present last night when he spoke to his BFFs (married couple), who are also close friends with BS. I heard both sides of the conversation and what I heard was them supporting him saying they know he was miserable for years and that his recent behaviour has been unexpected as he has always been a kind, honest person. That there are 2 sides to every story and although his way of getting out of the marriage was not the right way, they understood how it got to that point as she hasn't been a loving wife either. They've been BFFs with him since high school. I have also seen a different side to him. Based on everything I know (not based on his telling me either, but real evidence) I don't think that's who he really is. I think the internal struggle and misery broke him. Maybe I am projecting my own struggles with my leaving my marriage onto him but my intuition tells me it isn't just projecting. After 5 months apart and how we ended he didn't think I would give him another chance and he grasped at someone else. He finally got the nerve to call me but when I told him what I'd done he continued with the OOW (he'd only just started seeing her) as he was angry with me. He broke up with her a few days after confessing all to BS because he admitted to himself she wasn't what he wanted wanted without any indication I would give him a chance and spent 2 weeks waiting for me to return from my trips so we could talk. Before I even thought to ask, he unlocked his phone and handed it over. There were all the text messages confirming he had in fact broken up with OOW and left BS. Everyone is assuming I'm just going to jump back in. I'm not. I've learned a lot in the last year. The most important thing I have learned is that I am enough full stop. And he has no expectations other than reconnecting as friends because we were always very close. It soured because it all got to me the last few months of the affair and he didn't have the wherewithal to do what he should have. The lies and deception and the guilt it caused me to feel. It seems it finally caught up to him to. He had to get there on his own. Seems he finally did. I contributed in where we got to ultimately by sending the letter. Common wisdom here has been if you want to see how much you matter, tell the BS and see how quickly you are thrown under the bus. He was angry yes, but he didn't ghost me, he didn't go on a rampage. He didn't seek revenge. He acknowledged it was what he deserved for giving me hope and snatching it away, time and time again. BS is willing to reconcile. He it seems is resolved at this point not to, with or without me. He is prepared to live on his own. Good on him. He is finally being honest with those he has hurt. I give him credit for that and hope that his road to redemption has started. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I'm sorry but yes people make mistakes but what this guy has is a character problem. He is not a victim of his circumstances - he created his own personal hell and keeps making poor choice on top of poor choice in order to try and preserve himself. It all came tumbling down like a house of cards, predictably. He doesn't get credit for "coming clean" to everyone (laughable that you include yourself in this audience) of the three women who inevitably found out about each other LOL. He didn't care that you sent that crap to his wife because perhaps he intercepted it or she already knew everything. I wish you the best, and honestly - I think you're probably right for each other. Good luck. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Has he sought professional help? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) Also I'll bet dollars to donuts his wife is the one who finally kicked him out and made him get the apartment and he's begging to reconcile. It's amazing that you're willing to pay heed to what this man is straight up lying to your face about. It's apparent to all of us, but you just excuse it away because poor thing was in such a miserable marriage. It takes two to make a thing go right, as the song goes and given how he's acted since you've known him I'm sure you can cut his wife some slack Edited January 29, 2020 by Allupinnit 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts