Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 And I am heart broken. My dog is 13 years old, he is kind, happy going, and very much deff. Everybody knows my dog is the most precious thing to me. Tonight he grabbed a package of coloring pen that was on the table and dropped them to the floor. It probably broke the pen inside. My foster daughter is an artist and her crayons are valuble to her I understand that. She ran to the table yelling they must all be broken inside now, she grabbed the box, ran to her bedroom and throw them in her room, came back to the living room and KICKED MY OLD DOG!!! I reacted right away and told her to never again hurt my dog, they're just crayons and can be replaced and I'll buy them new ones but nothing justified hurting the dog!! She said ya ya! and her and I have been silent ever since. She's on her phone, I'm on my laptop. I am burning inside, I don't know if I will ever be able to trust her again!! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Maybe you have bitten off more than you can chew here... She is not sorry, it may not be the first time your dog has been hurt by her, and I doubt it will be the last, you are run ragged with the extra work, time to call it a day perhaps... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 If it was an option I would not keep anyone who kicked my dog. And you should report it to the agency because she shouldn't be in a home with animals. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 You have to figure out a way to get thru to her, chances are the dog is fine so she didn't commit a heinous household crime that would require home life changes but she needs to be reached so she can work on changing how she feels about your dog. Maybe her punishment is that she should work a weekend at a no kill rescue shelter so she can learn that dogs are people too!! 5 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 The problem is her lack of empathy and rage is likely a result of all the crap she's been through and isn't going to be a simple disciplinary matter. She needs to be someplace without pets or with large enough ones that she will learn respect from them, such as horses. And then in that home, maybe they can try to show and teach her empathy, but it just isn't easy or quick and it's certainly not a sure thing. Protect that old dog. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 A member of my family fostered a child and he would kick other small members of my extended family wen he got annoyed, it was kind of excused as he was a kid and had had a bad start and his foster mother did not want to give up on him and indeed sometimes blamed the other kids for getting in his way... BUT he didn't get better, he got worse and eventually as a young man ended up in prison for violence, which was the start of a one prison term after another... Hurting defenceless animals/kids is never a good sign... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Never. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
The Outlaw Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 You won't trust her again. Lay a finger on another child or a pet, that trust is broken. I'm sorry she put you through this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) I went out of the house with the dog. I told her I was gonna get something for dinner, I needed to cool down. Claire has never connected with my dog but she left him alone. She's a cat person. Two days ago my dog turned 100% deff, she was worried and asked me several times in the past 48 hours that I should take him to the vet, and its really sad that he can't hear anymore so I know she is not insensitive to animals (yes I have a vet appointment). Maybe anger issues? She threw her precious pen across her bedroom! came back in a fury. I am waiting for the dust to fall down and address this again in a calm manner. Edited January 19, 2020 by Gaeta Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Or maybe she did something to the dog that made it deaf. If she'll kick it in front of you what will she do when no one's looking? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, preraph said: Or maybe she did something to the dog that made it deaf. If she'll kick it in front of you what will she do when no one's looking? And that might explain why she was so concerned about him going to the vet too. Guilt... or fear... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 My dog is 13, it's normal for him to get deaf at his age, he's also a breed (cocker) that has repeatitive ear infections that may lead to hear loss. Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Did the dog get hurt? There's kicking and then there's KICKING, and impact/intent matters. If she kicked with intent to injure and hard enough to injure, that's a problem. Around here, we have a lot of cats. Tame nice cats inside, somewhat tame cats outside, and totally feral ones. Often, you deliver a light foot tap to move/remind a cat. Cats have a very resilient body structure, so not a problem. A dog (especially an old one) is a much more fragile and clunky animal....can't handle a dog the same way. You mention that Clair is a cat person - perhaps she doesn't know this? Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I think Gaeta knows the difference between a kick and a tap to move an animal to the side. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 At dinner I told her now that we're both calm down we will talk about this again. She agreed. I told her I need to trust her with my dog when I am not home and her gesture tonight broke that trust. She swore she has never kicked him or did anything else to him before and I can trust her. We spoke about getting her anger under control, crayon and stuff can be replaced. I told her she hurt me a great deal, I don't think she thought about that part. She's very attached to me and never wants me to be sad or hurt. I don't know how much I got through to her. She is a tough cookie, she built a lot of walls to not 'feel'. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 The dog did not yelp. She was facing him and she kicked him between his 2 front legs, she was in socks. She did not harm him but the intent to shed her anger on him was there. I explained to her it's up to US to adapt to the dog being deaf. It's our responsibiity to not leave our things in places he can grab them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Many people with rough childhoods have uncontrollable rage. They may feel very bad about it but have no control over it under certain triggers. You really just don't know what you're dealing with. She probably needs a really good child psychologist anyway. I still wouldn't trust her around my dogs. She did it once and she'll do it again under the right circumstances. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I also would not ever trust her alone with the dog. She may now blame the dog for getting her into trouble... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Gaeta Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Yes, that worry won't leave me soon. We are seeing her social worker next week, I'll share that with the social worker in private. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 My ex-H once kicked our great dane down the basement steps. Years later he put bruises on me. Some people are just OK with being mean and rough with dogs and it says a lot about their character. Link to post Share on other sites
major_merrick Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 49 minutes ago, Gaeta said: I don't know how much I got through to her. She is a tough cookie, she built a lot of walls to not 'feel'. You probably didn't. She'll adapt to please you because her living situation depends on it. She may not repeat the behavior, but it won't be because of you or the dog. Don't mistake self-preservation for contrition. 37 minutes ago, Gaeta said: The dog did not yelp. She was facing him and she kicked him between his 2 front legs, she was in socks. She did not harm him but the intent to shed her anger on him was there. At least the dog isn't hurt. And it sounds like she's got a bit of restraint even in her anger. Not enough restraint to keep from kicking, but enough to keep from hurting. So the situation isn't irretrievable. If it continues, that restraint in her mind might get removed, so it has to be dealt with now. 31 minutes ago, preraph said: Many people with rough childhoods have uncontrollable rage. They may feel very bad about it but have no control over it under certain triggers. Yes and no. It really depends on how that rage comes out....and it will come out. I had a rough childhood with a lot of violence, but I don't kick people's pets. You learn that when the rage needs to come out, there's ways you can direct it so that living things and property don't get harmed. I suspect Claire needs some training in that regard. She's still young, and sometimes it takes time. I didn't fully get a handle on it until my 20's. 5 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said: My ex-H once kicked our great dane down the basement steps. Years later he put bruises on me. Some people are just OK with being mean and rough with dogs and it says a lot about their character. I think there's a difference between having a dog that's yours vs. being around a dog because it is there. I personally dislike most dogs, and i wouldn't want to live around them. So I'm not going to go out and get a dog. Better for me and better for them. I sometimes wonder if there are people out there who dislike animals but get them anyway to have a target. Was your ex-H one of them? Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, major_merrick said: I sometimes wonder if there are people out there who dislike animals but get them anyway to have a target. Was your ex-H one of them? No, but that is a good question. He actually really likes dogs. He just likes everything with a heartbeat to behave on his terms. Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I actually disagree with most of the posting here. She had a tantrum in response to provocation which involved the dog. She talked with you later when she calmed down. If this is a pattern of behaviour which recurs or escalates that would indicate the severe psychological problems indicated by others. If she refused to discuss it or calm down ditto. If she was a grown adult, too late for you to re-parent. However: 2 hours ago, Gaeta said: We spoke about getting her anger under control, crayon and stuff can be replaced. I told her she hurt me a great deal, I don't think she thought about that part. She's very attached to me and never wants me to be sad or hurt. I don't know how much I got through to her. She is a tough cookie, she built a lot of walls to not 'feel'. She has to be the priority if this is an adoption situation for her, which may mean you have to rehome the dog and work on the child. If she has had a rough home environment she will have witnessed and learned maladaptive behaviours which have to be unlearned and rebuilt. Talk to the social worker about how. Link to post Share on other sites
divegrl Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 This girl has been through so much. She has lost her home, her mother. Pretty much her whole world has fallen apart. In order to have some sense of control, she has created a world, with her art, where things need to be perfect. Anything that happens to this created world will destroy her. This girl needs love, safety and connection. Play therapy will help. Also the book the body keeps score will be helpful to understand her behavior. Take care 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I believe you should decide a consequence to apply immediately that would be appropriate for this type of behavior because it will happen again. Maybe to your dog, maybe to someone or something else. This type of behavior escalates and talking about it with her probably helped you but I doubt it helped her, given her issues. Though I'm sure it seemed to help her. Although she probably felt some guilt about the fact you knew about it, she doesn't know how to keep herself from doing it again. The only thing that will help her not do it again is immediate consequences, such as taking her crayons away quietly without showing emotion. That won't cure her but immediate, consistent consequences will help her grow. I couldn't do what you're doing so I'm not being condescending about the way you handled it. I just have personal experience with people who have violent tendencies. Logic won't change their behavior. They have to know if they do something violent there will be immediate consequences that they don't like. I believe her kicking the dog lightly (it seems from what you wrote) was a visceral reaction that included a subconscious test. No matter how much she may insist she won't do it again, she probably believes she got away with it. Or she may truly be repentant but not have the emotional capacity to resist lashing out again. Link to post Share on other sites
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