Building a life together. Still possible?

[elaine567]

 

40 minutes ago, jeff0011 said:

a.  Women decide far ahead if they will stay at home or not before they even meet a guy? And that is somehow set in stone?

B. Women Who want to stay at home then take a look at what the man CURRENTLY makes and decides “well I won’t be with him.  He isn’t currently making enough for our future family of four!”

A) I doubt it is set in stone but why wouldn't they decide that want the SAHM role well ahead of time.
If she can decide she wants to be a barrister or a barista then why can't she decide she wants to be a SAHM?
B) A woman that is willing to give up a job/career indefinitely, needs to know if the man she chooses to be her and her children's "provider" is up to the job...

I also think your mother "chose" your father on his ability to make a decent enough living to provide for her and her kids.
If she hadn't thought the sums would work, she would have passed...
Not sure why it is such a surprise to you.

[jeff0011]

22 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

 

I also think your mother "chose" your father on his ability to make a decent enough living to provide for her and her kids.
If she hadn't thought the sums would work, she would have passed...
Not sure why it is such a surprise to you.

Hmmm. I would say lots of single guys aren’t single and out their working to make the most money possible for no reason.  They get sidetracked by fun. Travel. Girls. Etc. 
 

When many men have children, that instinct kicks in.  Especially with a good woman at his side.  working together  

I suppose I haven’t crossed paths with, or heard of many women who want to get married to pay half.  They usually HAVE to work because of debt or bad financial decisions/excessive spending. Hearing women talk anywhere, when their job is mentioned, typically is followed with some look of despair, sadness, stress etc. 
 

I would be open to different scenarios. If a woman will work full time then she should pay half the bills.  This doesn’t go over so well in real life.   

It would be more than easy to take care of a debt free woman who has good money sense, but those are rare as well.  
 

Maybe it depends on how attractive the woman is? That could definitely skew things. 
 

just what I tend to notice in the real world 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by jeff0011

[gaius]

If you want to build a life with someone nowadays it kind of has to be based around compromise. I don't think you can really go into it with a long checklist of things you have to have, like her to pay 50%, and expect to be successful.

When I met my wife we had this very alluring, special connection that I couldn't resist if I tried. If it were up to me we wouldn't be living in the city we are and I wouldn't be working in the field I am, but those were the demands building a life with her came with, so I did it. And it was the best decision I ever made.

Also, you have to keep in mind that every relationship is based on each partner satisfying the others needs. The more of someone else's needs you can satisfy the more they're willing to compromise. If you're finding yourself with a very slim selection of women to pick from, all of whom come nowhere near what you're looking for, working on being more witty and informed, making more money, being in better shape, just general self improvement might help increase the available pool.

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, gaius said:

If you're finding yourself with a very slim selection of women to pick from, all of whom come nowhere near what you're looking for, working on being more witty and informed, making more money, being in better shape, just general self improvement might help increase the available pool.

Or perhaps you need to consider expanding your search. There are plenty of really lovely, professional women to consider who have their stuff together with no debt. How do I know this? Because, I am one. And who know, you who may even find a woman who wants to stay at home when their children are young but not necessarily for a lifetime... Just saying, flexibility and adaptability are key in life and in relationships - as gaius so eloquently illustrated. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[Ruby Slippers]

It's natural that a woman who hopes to be a mother - and this is most women - selects for a good man who could provide for a family. Especially in infancy, children need an attentive mother who can focus on them. She can't do that if she's obligated to work. One of the saddest things I ever saw was a coworker with a newborn at home squeezing herself into a dark little room in a cold corporate office on her lunch break to pump her breast milk. I shudder just to recall it.

But I agree with you that a lot of people these days are debt slaves, spending out of control, no financial planning sense whatsoever, and financial mismanagement is a very unattractive quality in a man or a woman. It gives me a huge edge in dating that I'm financially responsible. Men absolutely rave about this. 

[jeff0011]

4 hours ago, Elswyth said:

I think there's a difference between a family that falls on hard times or had unexpected reasons preventing one person from working, and a woman who explicitly signs up to be a SAHM. There are very few women I know who aspire to be SAHMs, and they all give HUGE priority to the man's income when making their choice of a partner. If you plan to both work and share the household chores and childcare, or if you don't want kids, it matters less.

I think it is sexy if a woman (college educated or not) met a man and was like “I worked really hard.  I saved up 100k.  Let’s go half and half and build a home  we like “  Or anything similar to that.

But in  this day and age  of “feminism” and “working women”  the funny part is when women place so many demands on a man’s salary, yet are either broke, living above their means, and massively in debt.

That is no prize at all “oh thanks.  You want to marry me because I make good money and you are tired of struggling” You clearly can’t manage money at all, yet a man should overlook that.

I just met so many women that want a prize for working, even though they work themselves backwards into further debt. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by jeff0011

[elaine567]

Sorry you lost me where does "feminism" and "working women" come into it?

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, jeff0011 said:

I think it is sexy if a woman (college educated or not) met a man and was like “I worked really hard.  I saved up 100k.  Let’s go half and half and build a home  we like “  Or anything similar to that.

But in  this day and age  of “feminism” and “working women”  the funny part is when women place so many demands on a man’s salary, yet are either broke, living above their means, and massively in debt.

Exactly what I am doing with my current partner - we have both worked really hard, we both have equity in our own home, and we are combining that equity to build our dream home together. What’s more, he has a slightly higher annual salary than I do but I have more assets than he does. I actually put the deposit down on the new home. 

And yes, he does absolutely rave to his family and friends about his smart, hardworking, professionally employed girlfriend.

Not to dismiss your experiences, but these generalizations will not serve you well when dating. 

[mark clemson]

14 minutes ago, jeff0011 said:

I think it is sexy if a woman (college educated or not) met a man and was like “I worked really hard.  I saved up 100k.  Let’s go half and half and build a home  we like “  Or anything similar to that

 

I get that this signifies commitment. With a home and similar real property though, that approach can lead to problems if you ever break up. What if you want to do different things with it? Possibly you could put some sort of contract in place at the start, but that wouldn't usually supersede any state laws that apply. The lawyers could end up making more off you than the price of the house.

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Sorry you lost me where does "feminism" and "working women" come into it?

Let’s consider the olden days or current day India where parents continue to seek arranged marriages for their children with partners from a similar social class, wealth, and culture. I actually work with a woman who advertised her children in a newspaper, seeking an “appropriate” partner for her daughter. Her son declined, choosing to find his own partner. Her daughter had an arranged marriage. And, the children were born and raised in North America. 

A woman seeking a partner who is capable of providing a stable and comfortable life for the family is a concept as old as time...

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

With a home and similar real property though, that approach can lead to problems if you ever break up. What if you want to do different things with it? Possibly you could put some sort of contract in place at the start, but that wouldn't usually supersede any state laws that apply. The lawyers could end up making more off you than the price of the house.

Currently in the process of signing a cohabitation agreement. And while I don’t enjoy giving my hard earned money to the lawyers to draft the document, the protection it will provide will be well worth the cost of the investment. The whole process is not difficult, assuming that both partners enter the discussion in good faith. 

[mark clemson]

It's interesting that it's the male too that it applies to in the case of India, not just the female. Different from the west, where the male was often not expected to particularly marry a socioeconomic peer. My guess would be the whole caste system and way they view karma/reincarnation has impacted their cultural approach.

[mark clemson]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Currently in the process of signing a cohabitation agreement. And while I don’t enjoy giving my hard earned money to the lawyers to draft the document, the protection it will provide will be well worth the cost of the investment.

Not to derail the thread, but does it cover what happens to the property if you break up? Is that term of the contract binding? Does it align to law in your area (or can contracts supersede the laws in your area)?  I don't trust lawyers much anymore - seen too much BS go down, although it may be better where you are.

Edited January 23, 2020 by mark clemson

[Funktionull]

5 hours ago, Elswyth said:

$100k a year is only ~$8k a month. You DO need at least that much to support a family of 4 in most of the developed world today.

Maybe if you had 3 or 4 car payments and an insanely unfavorable mortgage and you were egregiously irresponsible with money you would need that much. 

[mark clemson]

Disagree. Kids are expensive in many parts of the world. And if you plan on sending them to college, it's either community college (in the US) or high debt levels if you don't save up on their behalf.

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Not to derail the thread, but does it cover what happens to the property if you break up? Is that term of the contract binding? Does it align to law in your area (or can contracts supersede the laws in your area)?  I don't trust lawyers much anymore - seen too much BS go down, although it may be better where you are.

Yes, yes, and yes. We were able to create our own agreement, it covers what will happen in the event of a breakup (as our wills are also being updated, should either of us pass away). We agreed to sell the home and divide the assets equally, since that is consistent with out initial investment. Or, one partner has the option to “buy the other person out” of the home. The lawyer most definitely advised us about the homestead act and common-law rights. Our contract is most definitely in alignment with the law. In fact, my partner now has to find another lawyer to review the document that was drafted by my lawyer - as a safeguard, to ensure that the contract is also in his best interest. My father has one, his states that in the event of his death, his partner keeps the home and his children inherit his other assets (as we will divide the assets of his home when his partner also passes with her children). In my mind, it’s much the same as getting a will - just something that needs to be done. When two people enter a relationship later in life, both with considerable assets, it seems somewhat irresponsible to me not to have an agreement. But, that is in my province, in my country. That’s my legal disclaimer...

[Kitty Tantrum]

I think most people approach relationships selfishly. I do not have a sunny outlook on the motivations or ethics of like 90% of humanity. Yes, a whole big portion of my generation is basically allergic to hard work and will glom onto anything (spouse, job, whatever) that they think will be their ticket to an easy life. Men and women. This kind of poo-stain-human behavior knows no demographic boundaries.

I suspect the base of "regulars" here fares much better statistically on account of both self-selection and moderation - but most people kinda suck, when it really comes down to it.

But that doesn't mean it's impossible to find the sort of partnership you want.

My husband and I are making it, in an area that has seen rents TRIPLE while the average wage has stayed roughly the same. He let me quit my job a little over a year ago, and we're OK. He receives a pension (retired Navy), but that honestly would scarcely cover housing costs if we were trying to live like an "instagram-ready family" or whatever. We share a house with my brother and another housemate. We have one vehicle (paid off). My husband opened his own business a couple years back, no business loans, just baby-steps into buying equipment and finding space. I've helped him with that - investing $$$ while I was still working, and also with a lot of getting things set up (graphic and interior design - and I painted his storefront sign). Currently I'm working on building an "online presence" (facebook, website, etc.). It is slowly but steadily growing.

I cook three meals from scratch almost every day, and walk lunch over to him at the shop in town (about a mile each way) most days he's working. I can't say I keep a spotless house (because our other housemates don't seem to give a good gosh-darn and I can't keep up with THAT many people and still get other stuff done!), but I keep the laundry and the dishes rotating and shuffle the clutter into organization, manage the waste, keep the groceries and toiletries and housewares stocked, etc. I've also got two boys who have been homeschooled from day one. He has a dog. I have a cat.

It IS hard work. Sometimes it all makes me want to pull my hair out - but NEVER so much as I wanted to pull my hair out when I was sitting behind a desk for 8+ hours 5 days a week (commercial kitchen work was better than that).

Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

Some people want a life of fun and leisure and honestly believe that somebody owes them that by virtue of their wanting it. Some people want life on easy mode. Some people want to hitch themselves to a free meal ticket. And all those various kinds of people who are either delusional or are really only in it for themselves make up a dauntingly large segment of the population. There IS DEFINITELY some kinda modern institutionally-perpetuated narcissism and entitlement going around, or I know literally nothing. It's real. I used to think I was gonna be one of those old ladies who was like "KIDS THESE DAYS" - but honestly, it's MY generation. There's something seriously wrong with most of us. I mean, there's plenty wrong with me, too - I just don't happen to be afflicted by any particular aversion to hard work. I love it. They say "work smarter, not harder" - I say give me a bigger hammer.

I guess what I've come to observe is that these people who SAY they want what you want, but are not genuine - the ones who don't actually want to put in the work; they tend to give themselves away by overly-romanticizing, even fetishizing, the notions of traditional or conventional male/female relationships and roles.

I don't do these things I do because they "get me hot" or whatever. I don't have a girly boner for tradition. But I have ambitions of my own (oh yes I do), and this is the structure that is MOST conducive to accomplishing the things I intend to do. It is the most suitable foundation upon which to build the things I want to build.

Women like me are rare, yes. But on the other hand, men like my husband - men who are actually willing and able to take on a woman who is, more or less, intent on building something that REQUIRES a certain measure of austerity, sacrifice, etc.... equally rare, to say the least.

And some people just don't really know what they want. Some people are very attracted to the romanticized/fetishized version of "trad relationships," etc. - but in reality have no interest in living the sort of life that justifies that model. So it becomes in and of itself a consumer lifestyle (here I'm thinking mainly about the "pinup wives" I see here and there who gush about how domestic and old fashioned they are... and it's like, really just another flavor of T&A on instagram). Plop someone like that into MY circumstances, and they'll be running screaming for the hills.

Example: recently, my husband told me he had sat down and paid the bills that were due and projected out the month's expenses, and that we had $26 in the checking account after all of that, until the end of the month. I said OK, and then the next time I wanted to buy something at the store, I used some of the pocket money he'd given me a few weeks ago. No biggie. We're somewhat poor, but $26 after all the bills are paid is still in the black! We can pull cash from the business if we absolutely need to, and we're responsible adults with available credit in case of emergencies.

WELL APPARENTLY, he was joking (we had a buffer of a few hundred dollars). And when I referenced that $26 sum a couple days later in asking from where he wanted to pull the money for a particular purchase, he looked at me AGHAST, and then laughed, and then got really serious and wide-eyed and he was like "wow, you handled that really well." Like he was completely blown away that I didn't start panicking and tell him that he needs to go get a real job or whatever.

(I guess his last girlfriend was the relatively affluent career type, and kinda put the screws to him about making more money... after which he basically quit his high-paying career and worked in retail - lol... And she HAD money - a very well-paying career, from what I understand - so it's not like she NEEDED him to make a ton of money. Ah - but that's from my perspective.)

Not everyone can hack it! LOTS of people WOULD start panicking in that situation, and I won't even say they're wrong to do so!

You have to know what exactly you want - and filter for people who want the same - AND (this is critical) do your best to scare away everyone who is just looking to take you for some kinda ride.

But it's possible.

I think.

[HappySenior]

8 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Nowadays it's hard for EVERYBODY to find someone. It's not a woman thing or a man thing. I went through hell and back before finding my boyfriend at 50, my daughter met the same type of problems while dating at 30, our office secretary of 25 cannot, for the love of god, find a decent man! So far men mid-20 to 30 years old have been manipulative, jealous, rude, and this only a couple of weeks into dating. This world is upside down, yes. But there are still good people, you just need to search harder. 

 

I paid off my debt before this last marriage because that's what I promised to do. Retired wealthy husband was a hindrance to getting housework done. I won't go into specifics there - but he was also very critical of everything I did. Got tired of it. He had no hobbies and IF I ever get married again, that's a must for the guy. 

We had prenup, but I found out after marriage I was expected to pay for my own dental insurance and bills and medical bills, even though he was/is high income and I had  none. Also I had to pay for cleaning and organizing supplies because he would not. I doubt he did his previous two wives like that. The good part is that I also paid for those recipe meals for a couple of months and learned to cook well. 

Yeah, if I ever do it again I want traditional, a guy with a hobby (probably retired) and maybe one I could partner with in something creative (photography, woodwork crafts, design, etc. etc.) Otherwise I doubt I'll ever marry again. In two years I can get Social Security, meantime I am just enjoying trying out different ideas for earning money without holding a job. If I have to, I will - but not right now. No credit card debit. I pay in full every month.

I live in a very small town though, so it is unlikely I'll pair up again. But I'm having loads of fun so it evens out.


 

[HappySenior]

7 hours ago, jeff0011 said:

Or lifestyle.  You don't need 20,000 a month to live. Im not talking about Manhattan or San Francisco. Most women I have ever know that do work don't make much more than 4k a month

I'm making do on 8K/year. But then my house is paid off too. And that doesn't count repairs that are very much needed, but I'm putting off until SS.

[jeff0011]

1 hour ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

I think most people approach relationships selfishly. I do not have a sunny outlook on the motivations or ethics of like 90% of humanity. Yes, a whole big portion of my generation is basically allergic to hard work and will glom onto anything (spouse, job, whatever) that they think will be their ticket to an easy life. Men and women. This kind of poo-stain-human behavior knows no demographic boundaries.

I suspect the base of "regulars" here fares much better statistically on account of both self-selection and moderation - but most people kinda suck, when it really comes down to it.

But that doesn't mean it's impossible to find the sort of partnership you want.

My husband and I are making it, in an area that has seen rents TRIPLE while the average wage has stayed roughly the same. He let me quit my job a little over a year ago, and we're OK. He receives a pension (retired Navy), but that honestly would scarcely cover housing costs if we were trying to live like an "instagram-ready family" or whatever. We share a house with my brother and another housemate. We have one vehicle (paid off). My husband opened his own business a couple years back, no business loans, just baby-steps into buying equipment and finding space. I've helped him with that - investing $$$ while I was still working, and also with a lot of getting things set up (graphic and interior design - and I painted his storefront sign). Currently I'm working on building an "online presence" (facebook, website, etc.). It is slowly but steadily growing.

I cook three meals from scratch almost every day, and walk lunch over to him at the shop in town (about a mile each way) most days he's working. I can't say I keep a spotless house (because our other housemates don't seem to give a good gosh-darn and I can't keep up with THAT many people and still get other stuff done!), but I keep the laundry and the dishes rotating and shuffle the clutter into organization, manage the waste, keep the groceries and toiletries and housewares stocked, etc. I've also got two boys who have been homeschooled from day one. He has a dog. I have a cat.

It IS hard work. Sometimes it all makes me want to pull my hair out - but NEVER so much as I wanted to pull my hair out when I was sitting behind a desk for 8+ hours 5 days a week (commercial kitchen work was better than that).

Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

Some people want a life of fun and leisure and honestly believe that somebody owes them that by virtue of their wanting it. Some people want life on easy mode. Some people want to hitch themselves to a free meal ticket. And all those various kinds of people who are either delusional or are really only in it for themselves make up a dauntingly large segment of the population. There IS DEFINITELY some kinda modern institutionally-perpetuated narcissism and entitlement going around, or I know literally nothing. It's real. I used to think I was gonna be one of those old ladies who was like "KIDS THESE DAYS" - but honestly, it's MY generation. There's something seriously wrong with most of us. I mean, there's plenty wrong with me, too - I just don't happen to be afflicted by any particular aversion to hard work. I love it. They say "work smarter, not harder" - I say give me a bigger hammer.

I guess what I've come to observe is that these people who SAY they want what you want, but are not genuine - the ones who don't actually want to put in the work; they tend to give themselves away by overly-romanticizing, even fetishizing, the notions of traditional or conventional male/female relationships and roles.

I don't do these things I do because they "get me hot" or whatever. I don't have a girly boner for tradition. But I have ambitions of my own (oh yes I do), and this is the structure that is MOST conducive to accomplishing the things I intend to do. It is the most suitable foundation upon which to build the things I want to build.

Women like me are rare, yes. But on the other hand, men like my husband - men who are actually willing and able to take on a woman who is, more or less, intent on building something that REQUIRES a certain measure of austerity, sacrifice, etc.... equally rare, to say the least.

And some people just don't really know what they want. Some people are very attracted to the romanticized/fetishized version of "trad relationships," etc. - but in reality have no interest in living the sort of life that justifies that model. So it becomes in and of itself a consumer lifestyle (here I'm thinking mainly about the "pinup wives" I see here and there who gush about how domestic and old fashioned they are... and it's like, really just another flavor of T&A on instagram). Plop someone like that into MY circumstances, and they'll be running screaming for the hills.

Example: recently, my husband told me he had sat down and paid the bills that were due and projected out the month's expenses, and that we had $26 in the checking account after all of that, until the end of the month. I said OK, and then the next time I wanted to buy something at the store, I used some of the pocket money he'd given me a few weeks ago. No biggie. We're somewhat poor, but $26 after all the bills are paid is still in the black! We can pull cash from the business if we absolutely need to, and we're responsible adults with available credit in case of emergencies.

WELL APPARENTLY, he was joking (we had a buffer of a few hundred dollars). And when I referenced that $26 sum a couple days later in asking from where he wanted to pull the money for a particular purchase, he looked at me AGHAST, and then laughed, and then got really serious and wide-eyed and he was like "wow, you handled that really well." Like he was completely blown away that I didn't start panicking and tell him that he needs to go get a real job or whatever.

(I guess his last girlfriend was the relatively affluent career type, and kinda put the screws to him about making more money... after which he basically quit his high-paying career and worked in retail - lol... And she HAD money - a very well-paying career, from what I understand - so it's not like she NEEDED him to make a ton of money. Ah - but that's from my perspective.)

Not everyone can hack it! LOTS of people WOULD start panicking in that situation, and I won't even say they're wrong to do so!

You have to know what exactly you want - and filter for people who want the same - AND (this is critical) do your best to scare away everyone who is just looking to take you for some kinda ride.

But it's possible.

I think.

I think that’s the attitude men admire in a woman. On the other hand, the sense of entitlement so many have today is based on some sort of group think or just sheer ignorance. 

Only 5 percent of all Americans Make 100k. And I bet most of those are middle aged married men. 

And I have found that attitude to be true in real life.  College educated women making 30k a year saying “OMG Like 250k a year for a man is average!”

I did bring up feminism, because logically, if it is a great thing, then why are men expected to be high earners? As in, a man’s earnings shouldn’t even be part of the equation or noticed anymore. Men should work fewer hours and fewer years so women can pick up the slack. 

And why would a woman expect to have a part of that mans earnings in this day and age, unless she was with him from the beginning? Those are his skills worth 6 figures.  Not yours. 
 

It all just seems so hypocritical and fake to me.  When young women are running up all this debt (college, credit cards, new cars) are they just assuming someone will bail them out one day?(the government, daddy, some dumb guy)? Being “Feminists” while they run up debt, but then keeping the old fashioned rules and ideas of “a guy has to be a high earner for me! How can I survive on less than 10k a month!”

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by jeff0011

[mark clemson]

57 minutes ago, jeff0011 said:

It all just seems so hypocritical and fake to me.  When young women are running up all this debt (college, credit cards, new cars) are they just assuming someone will bail them out one day?(the government, daddy, some dumb guy)? Being “Feminists” while they run up debt, but then keeping the old fashioned rules and ideas of “a guy has to be a high earner for me! How can I survive on less than 10k a month!”

 

I can see why you feel it's hypocritical. To be fair to women, plenty of young men run up unrealistically huge college debts too and then are saddled with e.g. retail jobs. So that's more a societal problem - not just the high cost of colleges but also lack of financial literacy and "a safety in the herd mentality" (everyone else is doing it so it must be ok).

Like all people, when the doodoo hits the fan you sometimes have to compromise your values and do whatever needs to be done to get though it. So if marrying a high earner who's willing to help pay off your debt gets the job done, well, c'est la vie. A few select men may have this option too (gigolos and sugar mamas). I doubt a 27 year old stud really wants to be screwing that 50 year old divorcee lady in most cases. Sometimes "hypocrisy" can also be seen as "swallowing your pride".

At any rate, if you really have a problem with (what you feel is) the prevailing attitude in the dating pool, the simple solution is to keep at it until you find one of the select few who fits your requirements. No doubt it's frustrating, but you'll probably find them eventually.

Edited January 24, 2020 by mark clemson

[Els]

9 hours ago, jeff0011 said:

I just met so many women that want a prize for working, even though they work themselves backwards into further debt.

Have you ever thought that your people-picker is just broken, or that the traits that you require are simply contradictory to what you can offer, or to other traits that you need? If "every woman you meet" is a certain way, it stands to reason that after a certain point, the common denominator might be you.

I have zero debt, decent savings, and a job that I love (yes, not all women "speak of their job with sadness"). As I mentioned in an earlier post, I choose to work (and, gasp, enjoy it!) even though we can afford for me not to. But even if I were single, I wouldn't be with a man who speaks the way you do here, and I certainly wouldn't want to be a SAHM.

Good luck with the laundry list.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Elswyth

[jeff0011]

3 hours ago, Elswyth said:

Have you ever thought that your people-picker is just broken, or that the traits that you require are simply contradictory to what you can offer, or to other traits that you need? If "every woman you meet" is a certain way, it stands to reason that after a certain point, the common denominator might be you.

I have zero debt, decent savings, and a job that I love (yes, not all women "speak of their job with sadness"). As I mentioned in an earlier post, I choose to work (and, gasp, enjoy it!) even though we can afford for me not to. But even if I were single, I wouldn't be with a man who speaks the way you do here, and I certainly wouldn't want to be a SAHM.

Good luck with the laundry list.

Maybe it is broken.  But I am not basing my observations Solely  on the women I have dated. 

The government and banks need more tax dollars and interest, so perhaps it is good if women pay more of their fair share. 
 

And if women love their jobs and want to pay half to ease the burden from men , that is even better for men.  I just haven’t seen it very often. I actually only hear about it on message boards  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by jeff0011

[chillii]

42 minutes ago, jeff0011 said:

Maybe it is broken.  But I am not basing my observations Solely  on the women I have dated. 

The government and banks need more tax dollars and interest, so perhaps it is good if women pay more of their fair share. 
 

And if women love their jobs and want to pay half to ease the burden from men , that is even better for men.  I just haven’t seen it very often. I actually only hear about it on message boards  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think it must be mate , really. like l was sayin quality women won't have all that or even the attitudes you talk about , you've really just gotta be selective

l mean l'm not in the states but just reading through thee thread then reminded me of the women l met back when. 1 had 5 houses , she was wasn't on some huge salary or some big shot , just a nurse but she just loved property and investing . The very first chick l met , drove her 8mtr camper down to my property 180k down the coast, made us lunch in my ktchen and we walked and talked all afternoon. She had her house up the coast to she was renovating. Another one had a small farm , another her own place and renovating , both my gf's ex and now have had savings and their own places. No ones been some big shot or major career type l don't even go for those , just ordinary women in that way,

Gf likes helping me in my business and doin stuff round the house she doesn't want another proper job and she's an absolute god sent , we love our life l work at home and l love that she likes the idea of that too and her having the free time and lifestyle l have. Some strung out 24 7 busy big shot would be useless to me . Point is , it's just like anything else in a relationship , you look for someone like minded and that wants similar things. l don'y know why you'd even be bothering with the women your coming across there's nothing like minded there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Els]

3 hours ago, jeff0011 said:

Maybe it is broken.  But I am not basing my observations Solely  on the women I have dated. 

The government and banks need more tax dollars and interest, so perhaps it is good if women pay more of their fair share. 
 

And if women love their jobs and want to pay half to ease the burden from men , that is even better for men.  I just haven’t seen it very often. I actually only hear about it on message boards 

Maybe move around a bit or talk to different women. Plenty of my female friends prefer to work and enjoy their jobs... and they're not waist-deep in debt either. I actually have no idea where you are meeting all these women. Sure some people are financially irresponsible, but to have a whole homogenous population of financially-irresponsible people of only ONE gender is very peculiar.

Also, in most marriages there is at least some extent of financial merging, so "paying half" is not really something that makes sense if you're talking about building a life together. I don't know any married couples that literally split the bills in half, normally it is paid from one joint account, even if both people have additional personal accounts. While you CAN do that if you want, just like anything else, there will be consequences for that choice. Most people will not want to "build a life together" with someone who views finances that way, and a woman would be a fool to sign up to be a SAHM without joint finances.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Elswyth