Questioning Monogamy

[jeff0011]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:28 AM, Elswyth said:

Poly vs monogamy is like the kink vs vanilla debate. Neither is inherently "healthier" than the other, it's just a matter of choosing what YOU are wired for. If you're inherently monogamous (and I know I am), going for poly sounds like a recipe for disaster. Ditto if you are polygamous but force yourself into a monogamous marriage.

The poly/mono topic is discussed quite often in the kink communities I hang out in. I've seen people talk about "trying to go poly because their partner is poly", and the heartbreak that ensues. Not every poly couple/group is happy.

One most certainly is "healthier" in the scope of a family. 

[Els]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:26 AM, jeff0011 said:

One most certainly is "healthier" in the scope of a family. 

Not everyone wants a family,  we don't know if the OP does.

[major_merrick]

On 1/28/2020 at 8:26 AM, jeff0011 said:

One most certainly is "healthier" in the scope of a family. 

I would say that open relationships are probably not healthy for a family. That stuff tends not to lead to marital stability from what I've seen.  However, at least in my community, polyfidelity is working and provides stable structure equal to the traditional nuclear family. 

[Springsummer]

man, every often I came across people in a open relationship or/and couple looking for another one..man, no idea how these people work

 

for me, physical and emotional are inseparable.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Springsummer

[Kitty Tantrum]

OPEN relationships tend to be antithetical to long-term commitment and family stability. "Polyfidelity" (aka plural marriage in ye olden days - either polygynous or polyandrous) seems like a mixed bag... but so is everything.

I could see myself being cool with a sister wife or two under certain particular circumstances, but none of this Bohemian silliness for me.

Frankly I've dipped my toes far enough into those waters and I've had enough men to know that ONE is exactly enough.

[DKT3]

I love my children equally,  my son is a great kid. My daughter is lovely and even as a teenager she is always looking to include me in her life.

Some may be thinking WTF is this guy talking about his kids in this kind of topic.....

Connection...I love my kids equally but I have and alway have had a stronger connection with my daughter.  Most of us feel that our parents favored our siblings over us in some way, unless you were the favorite.

In any poly type relationship you will always have a better connection to one than the other. This will always be noticed and always create issues, spoken or not. Its simply a dynamic that can't be denied. 

[major_merrick]

Bohemian silliness is for singles.  To have stability, you have to create stability. 

Since I live in a poly situation, I can speak to the favorites thing.  It CAN happen, but it doesn't mean it should.  My husband tries very hard to treat his  4 wives equally, just as I try to love my partners equally.  What happens is that different people end up becoming a priority in different situations, and that's OK.  In polyfidelity, you give up the idea that one single person has to meet all your needs, yet you stay faithful within your small nest of shared partners.  You focus on what you can do for the others, and the others bring it back to you in their own ways, each one doing what they do best. 

[DKT3]

Priority or not you can't fake or force connection and chemistry. 

I have seen and read enough of your posts and thread to know it's in theory only, the reality is their is a pecking order in your relationship,  there are stronger connection within your group.  Its evident in your words. 

[jeff0011]

10 hours ago, major_merrick said:

I would say that open relationships are probably not healthy for a family. That stuff tends not to lead to marital stability from what I've seen.  However, at least in my community, polyfidelity is working and provides stable structure equal to the traditional nuclear family. 

Yes. I wasn’t thinking of different communities. I meant just “open” relationships where the husband and wife spend time and energy seeking new Sex mates, which obviously takes away a lot of time from the children. 

[major_merrick]

@DKT3 You make an interesting point.  However, "equal" doesn't mean "identical."  There is always a "pecking order" among any group of people but I think it is more pronounced in my family due to my husband's position and the very different capabilities of the women in our household.  But just because when he's not around Wife#4 is considered to be "in charge" doesn't mean that he loves her more than he loves me.  Or just because my GF#1 makes good money with her job and my GF#2 prefers to feed babies and wash dishes doesn't make one more important than the other.  We have different functions.  

BTW, even a standard nuclear family will have a clearly defined pecking order.  Often, the wife will seize power.  Ever seen families where the husband is always asking if he can buy something or go here or do this?  I see it all the time, and I see a lot of accounts of it on this forum.  True equality is a rare thing, and even where it exists equality still does not mean that the functions of individuals are identical. 

And no, you can't force connection or chemistry.  But often, proximity will cause it to develop.  Wife #1 and I had some major conflict when I moved in.  She felt threatened when I started having kids, and my long-term friendship with my husband prior to our marriage concerned her.  So she reacted aggressively toward me.  My husband sent us off by ourselves and made us deal with it.  We figured out that we had to rely on each other.  Since that time, our connection has gotten stronger.  When I was sent to the hospital last year and almost died, she was the one who was most understanding during my recovery.  I love her, and I'd miss her if she was gone.  I think she feels the same way about me.  Developing that connection took almost two years, even though we had known each other before I joined the family. 

[DKT3]

I think you're missing my point.  It's not about love, as I mentioned I love my kids equally,  that doesn't mean I have the same connection. 

Any time humans are involved envy and jealousy will be an issue,  some are better with dealing. 

The thing about plural partners is they occupy the same position albeit  in different ways.  In that position there will be inherent challenges that will always arise,  as you mentioned one being threatened by your CONNECTION with the husband.  That has not gone away. Your relationship with her has improved,  but it doesn't diminish your connection with him that she recognized. 

Honestly,  it happens in traditional families but on a smaller scale and with people who occupy different positions. Most often its the same position.  Kids being jealous of kids, parents being jealous of parents based on connection and perceived favoritism, real or imagined. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by DKT3

[Els]

The few people I know who have done long-term poly have said that they literally just don't feel jealousy about their partner. In all of those cases, both partners are poly, so they probably understand each other - if one is monogamous and the other is poly, there is likely to be resentment.

[DKT3]

Couple years ago one of the pay channels here in the US had a documentary that ran a couple seasons featuring 5 different groups living poly lifestyle.  Every one had jealous and envy while all claim it not to be the case. The show ultimately ended because all 5 relationships ended completely.  

There was cheating,  lying, poor communication all the things that were supposed to be not a problem in these types of relationships.  Bottom line is humans are humans.  We are good at trying to make it sound like we are above basic human wants and desires but ultimately we all fail to maintain the illusion.  No matter how much we attempt to convince ourselves and others.

[Els]

I'm monogamous, but I'm pretty certain you could find 5 terrible monogamous couples and interview them for a documentary, too. Generally, I put more stock in the words of someone who has actually DONE something for many years, compared to what someone who watched a documentary says.

[DKT3]

I'm not lobbying against the relationships,  I'm saying that humans are human and no matter what kind of relationship they have they are going to be human.  Humans are insecure,  needy, emotionally fragile and desire connection with others. Some are simply better at how others perceive those things in them. 

This idea one is better than the other is ridiculous,  that one can eliminate the basic humanity out is even more ridiculous. 

[pepperbird]

Really, so long as a person figures out what sort of relationship style suits them best, is open about that with their partners and is honest should he or she decide to bring someone else in, that's up to them.

I don't care.

[major_merrick]

13 hours ago, DKT3 said:

The thing about plural partners is they occupy the same position albeit  in different ways.  In that position there will be inherent challenges that will always arise,  as you mentioned one being threatened by your CONNECTION with the husband.  That has not gone away. Your relationship with her has improved,  but it doesn't diminish your connection with him that she recognized.

Partially right.  But with Wife #1, she felt threatened because she didn't understand that my connection did not supersede her connection.  I believe that she felt like I might force her out.  Once that fear was replaced with knowledge, the aggression went away.  My connection doesn't diminish her connection.  And also, the most important thing was that we established our own connection between us.  If that didn't exist, there'd still be issues.  That's why I think that open relationships are more risky than polyfidelity...there's people who aren't really connected to one another, and thus more opportunity to feel threatened. 

11 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Couple years ago one of the pay channels here in the US had a documentary that ran a couple seasons featuring 5 different groups living poly lifestyle.  Every one had jealous and envy while all claim it not to be the case. The show ultimately ended because all 5 relationships ended completely.  

There was cheating,  lying, poor communication all the things that were supposed to be not a problem in these types of relationships.  Bottom line is humans are humans.  We are good at trying to make it sound like we are above basic human wants and desires but ultimately we all fail to maintain the illusion.  No matter how much we attempt to convince ourselves and others.

Again, true.  Yet, my family has worked out because rather than fighting human nature, our relationship style uses human nature (including selfishness sometimes) to maintain stability.  There are things we can do as a unit that simply wouldn't be possible alone or in a couple.  Our basic desires get met more fully and more often.  Getting partners together who believe in it....that's the rare part.  And of course, you don't believe most of what you see on TV....

11 hours ago, DKT3 said:

This idea one is better than the other is ridiculous,  that one can eliminate the basic humanity out is even more ridiculous. 

Of course you can't make a blanket statement that one is better than the other.  It really depends on the people involved.  Most people can't get over the jealousy and build connections with partners besides their one and only.  Not all women are into a same-sex connection, and that's the glue that holds our little nest of partners together.  It's no wonder the Mormon sister-wives don't get along very well... they don't have that intimacy between each other so of course they become competitors!  Ultimately, people have to figure out what relationship style works for them.  For the vast majority of people in the US, that means traditional monogamy for life or serial monogamy with breakups and divorces.  I like what I've got.  It satisfies my basic human needs - better food, better shelter, better sex, more partners to tend to me emotionally, better security for my offspring...  And I return the favor. 

[Kyra]

On 1/26/2020 at 12:58 PM, VioletVelvet said:

 There are practically as many ways of being poly as there are people. (actually to get terms correct my understanding is that poly implies having loving relationships with more than one person whereas just sex with others is an open relationship) 

Yes, and then there's swinging where couples have sex with other couples/singles as a couple, cf open relationship which is dating/bonking other people without your partner.

being non-monogamous is perfect for some people but would be terrible for others. I think the two main most important things you need to do polyamory/swinging/open relationship is (1) feeling very secure in your primary relationship & (2) not having the mindset that sex is a sacred bond that can only exist between two people or something like that.

In terms of what someone said about viewing any kind of non-monogamy as meaning your partner isn't satisfied with you, or you're not good enough in bed or something - the way I view it we don't have to be everything to our partner and satisfy them in every way. I've come to see sex can be simply physical fun that is not always bound with love and a special bond. My husband and I have different interests inside and outside the bedroom. I hate watching cricket so he takes his brother with him. He has no interest in say scrapbooking so I'd do that with a friend. After 20 years of monogamy I came to see sex could be the same. If I go dancing with a friend it doesn't take anything away from my husband or our relationship, and neither does having sex with someone else. 

Throughout our marriage when he's had friendships with other women and gone out to drinks or dinner with them, it never crossed my mind that he would leave me because he enjoyed dinner and conversation with another woman. Nor do I worry about that when he's having sex with another women - even though he's enjoying that more than sex with me. In fact since we opened the marriage over 3 yrs ago he has less reason to leave me for another woman - what's the point when he can have both?

[Super Phantom]

Open relationships are for weak men. It's your gilrfriend/wife and no sharing. If she wants that then she belongs to the streets

[trackdayguy]

Monogamy doesn't work for the majority of the worlds population. There are several problems, the following is just the tip of the iceberg 

1. We aren't genetically wired to be monogamous
2. Monogamy is a socially constructed system that doesn't work for the masses
3. We are conditioned to believe in monogamy because its socially acceptable
4. Most people aren't able to think outside the box, due fear, rejection and judgement
5. Fear, control, ownership: all characteristics of monogamy

One of the biggest lies is: "I'm looking for my other half" by definition that's the comment from 1/2 a person. Once we come to a place of emotional wholeness we dont need other people to either make us feel whole of validate us.  Open Relationships aren't about having more sex they are about being OPEN. Most couples in monogamous relationships aren't open with each other due to fear. If you dont believe me, then ask this question: How would my partner respond if I told them that I was attracted to someone else? Almost all men are attracted to other females, its how we are wired. Monogamy is a socially constructed system that doesn't work for a whole host or reasons. 

If people's relationships were based on openness instead of YOUR MINE, then there'd be no problem being honest, monogamy facilitates lying, if not how do we explain the cheating, there's no cheating when your open and honest. The bottom line is most people cant do because their to insecure and need on going validation.

Who buys a car that has a 50% + failure rate? nobody, so why do people keep doing it? 

Very happy in a 40 year Open Marriage. 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by trackdayguy
incomplete

[trackdayguy]

On 2/6/2020 at 7:58 PM, Super Phantom said:

Open relationships are for weak men. It's your gilrfriend/wife and no sharing. If she wants that then she belongs to the streets

Really, you might wanna re think that....

[pepperbird]

10 hours ago, trackdayguy said:

Monogamy doesn't work for the majority of the worlds population. There are several problems, the following is just the tip of the iceberg 

1. We aren't genetically wired to be monogamous
2. Monogamy is a socially constructed system that doesn't work for the masses
3. We are conditioned to believe in monogamy because its socially acceptable
4. Most people aren't able to think outside the box, due fear, rejection and judgement
5. Fear, control, ownership: all characteristics of monogamy

One of the biggest lies is: "I'm looking for my other half" by definition that's the comment from 1/2 a person. Once we come to a place of emotional wholeness we dont need other people to either make us feel whole of validate us.  Open Relationships aren't about having more sex they are about being OPEN. Most couples in monogamous relationships aren't open with each other due to fear. If you dont believe me, then ask this question: How would my partner respond if I told them that I was attracted to someone else? Almost all men are attracted to other females, its how we are wired. Monogamy is a socially constructed system that doesn't work for a whole host or reasons. 

If people's relationships were based on openness instead of YOUR MINE, then there'd be no problem being honest, monogamy facilitates lying, if not how do we explain the cheating, there's no cheating when your open and honest. The bottom line is most people cant do because their to insecure and need on going validation.

Who buys a car that has a 50% + failure rate? nobody, so why do people keep doing it? 

Very happy in a 40 year Open Marriage. 

 

FWIW, I've had my DNA tested several times for reasons I would prefer not to go into here. There is actually an SNP that codes for monogamy. Those who have said SNP have, shown a preference for being with just one person. To us, being with more than one person at a time feels wrong. It's not what we are hard wired for. I'm, not saying it's better, just different.

personally, I don't care what someone delsze does in their relationship, so long as they are honest. it's the dishonesty that causes the problems.

[pepperbird]

10 hours ago, trackdayguy said:

Really, you might wanna re think that....

why? just because non-monogamy works for yo and your wife, that doesn't mean it's right for anyone else.

[Kitty Tantrum]

Any time anyone tries to say that "all humans are wired for X," I have to laugh.

I am DEFINITELY "wired" for monogamy. I always kinda knew that, and actually taking that foray into "open relationships" (because my first husband wanted to - in my mind, he was supposed to be my only sexual partner ever for life) just proved it.

My husband seems to be wired similarly.

Monogamy doesn't mean we're secretive, closed-off, or dishonest with each other either. My husband has commented before on how beautiful or attractive a particular woman is - and that's fine. I usually agree with him. In a roundabout way, it's an ego-boost for me to see that he has pretty high standards for what he considers visually attractive. When he tells me I'm beautiful, gorgeous, stunning, etc. - I know for a fact he's comparing me to some really beautiful women, and he doesn't find me lacking. 🥰

(This is in contrast with my first husband, who seemed to think that "beautiful" or "attractive" was just another way of saying "has accessible vagina.")

Edited February 9, 2020 by Kitty Tantrum

[DKT3]

On 2/6/2020 at 8:28 AM, Super Phantom said:

Open relationships are for weak men. It's your gilrfriend/wife and no sharing. If she wants that then she belongs to the streets

Open relationships are for those adults who have agreed to live that lifestyle.  Not all open relationships are as you describe.