d0nnivain Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 2 hours ago, pepperbird said: how does this person know they actually have the disease? I read an article earlier that I can't find now to post a hypertext link. Anyway, the article said the big difference is that corona virus comes with a fever & shortness of breath, The sniffles, sneezing, coughing, without fever or shortness of breath are probably just the regular flu or allergies 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Shanex Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 The Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympics could very well be cancelled for the first time in peacetime... https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/sport/kanoa-igarashi-olympics-coronavirus-spt-intl/index.html Link to post Share on other sites
Author gaius Posted March 7, 2020 Author Share Posted March 7, 2020 47 minutes ago, elaine567 said: When the world is going to find it difficult to meet pension and care requirements in the near future due to ageing populations, what a bonus that a large section of the "elderly" are going to die of this virus... I doubt the UK Govt. will be really too worried... unless the economy tanks at the same time... One professor has already said that "A coronavirus pandemic could be “quite useful” in clearing bed blocking in hospitals by killing off patients" One of the few things in life that really wounded me was when my grandmother died. She had a stroke and was at the point where she needed to be in a nursing home, I had done everything I could to keep her independent and at home, but it still hurt deeply and still does to this day. If she had instead been killed by a virus in a somewhat preventable situation, like coronavirus, I think the pain and hurt would have magnified several times over. Old people still matter. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Beendaredonedat said: I just now heard there are cases in every country on the planet except Antarctica. According to the NYT, that isn’t true: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, gaius said: Old people still matter. Of course they do. The UK after years of austerity and the devaluing of people has made us all a bit cynical as to the real agenda. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Pragmatism still prevails. You are correct at Libby that level headed prudence has prevailed in this thread with a few who keep stomping about not being in a 'panic.' Weird, because conversation/sharing information is the opposite of panic...this thread is not FB, twitter, Fox/Murdoch; in fact quite reasonable discussion. There isn't any person at this point in time who is able to predict the outcome of this pandemic. It may be statistically mild, it may be catastrophic...it will likely end in between, however, no person however educated can predict as of this point in time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Elaine, the UK and US, you and us sister. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Timshel said: Pragmatism still prevails. You are correct at Libby that level headed prudence has prevailed in this thread with a few who keep stomping about not being in a 'panic.' Weird, because conversation/sharing information is the opposite of panic...this thread is not FB, twitter, Fox/Murdoch; in fact quite reasonable discussion. There isn't any person at this point in time who is able to predict the outcome of this pandemic. It may be statistically mild, it may be catastrophic...it will likely end in between, however, no person however educated can predict as of this point in time. True, that posts in this thread don't seem to be panicky. Seems to me what folks who are posting not to panic are responding to is that there does seem to be panic in the media, IMO. My social media friends (many health care professionals and other professionals) are not showing any panic at all but lots of them are posting links and videos about it. So, in a way, all of the chatter about it can give the sense that there is panic. I think it's the bulk of chatter across the board that seems to portray panic. When in reality all the posts from Drs. etc. that I see on social media are pretty level-headed. It's the news articles that seem over-the-top to me and I believe that's what the "Don't panic" caveats refer to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Can you imagine how hospitals and primary care physicians are being inundated at this time. It's drilled into medical professionals to do no harm, harm will include panic and they need to treat (real) patients. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Timshel said: Can you imagine how hospitals and primary care physicians are being inundated at this time. It's drilled into medical professionals to do no harm, harm will include panic and they need to treat (real) patients. Good point, Timshel! And one of my FB friends today posted a video by an ER Dr. telling folks to quit stealing face masks, hand sanitizers, etc. from hospitals. He said thousands of his face masks and other things had been stolen by patients and their families. He was saying that those who are stealing them actually are canceling out their own prospects of being served if/when they should need medical help, if health care professionals don't have the proper supplies on hand to protect patients. Edited March 7, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, elaine567 said: When the world is going to find it difficult to meet pension and care requirements in the near future due to ageing populations, what a bonus that a large section of the "elderly" are going to die of this virus... I doubt the UK Govt. will be really too worried... unless the economy tanks at the same time... One professor has already said that "A coronavirus pandemic could be “quite useful” in clearing bed blocking in hospitals by killing off patients" I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. The powers that be have done similar for decades. Marketing cigarettes to women as a symbol of freedom and hipness, with the goal of doubling their market, while well aware of the bad health effects, is one example. Corporations hired mass "influencers"/brainwashers to accomplish this. There's an excellent documentary about it, free on YouTube, "The Century of the Self." Edited March 7, 2020 by Ruby Slippers 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Quote Italy is set to lock down at least 10 million people in the region of Lombardy and 11 provinces in the north and the east of the country. The mandatory quarantine will last until early April. Draft decree from Italian Govt. to be signed in next few hours. Edited March 8, 2020 by elaine567 spacing 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Minneloa said: According to the NYT, that isn’t true: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html I Just heard it again on the News here in Ontario. They said. "The only country in the world that has no cases is Antarctica." Which means that everyone has at least one case but them. Edited March 8, 2020 by Beendaredonedat Link to post Share on other sites
sothereiwas Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Beendaredonedat said: Can you cite your source. Already done. Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Guess I'll never be able to read it then unless you can give me a post #. Thread is too long to start looking. What you posted was just a definition of it. You didn't cite a source that that is what is happening with this particular virus. Cytokine storm is now seen as a likely major cause of mortality in the 1918-20 "Spanish flu" Flu/virus, apples/oranges. Edited March 8, 2020 by Beendaredonedat Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Referenced article: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm ETA, member content search which provided it: https://www.loveshack.org/profile/542405-sothereiwas/content/ Edited March 8, 2020 by carhill 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sothereiwas Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 I never said it was what was happening in this case, although the fine article does state: "This little-understood phenomenon is thought to occur in at least several types of infections and autoimmune conditions, but it appears to be particularly relevant in outbreaks of new flu variants." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, carhill said: Referenced article: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm Interesting read, thanks, Carhill. Now I'm wondering if taking immune enhancing supplements is going to cause the phenom as was implied after the poster mentioned she was taking supplements to boost her immunity? That was my point in asking for the source to be cited. Is there a link showing whether or not taking immune enhancing supplements can cause a greater risk of causing this "Storm?" Edited March 8, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quoting Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Beendaredonedat said: Interesting read, thanks, Carhill. Now I'm wondering if taking immune enhancing supplements is going to cause the phenom as was implied after the poster mentioned she was taking supplements to boost her immunity? That was my point in asking for the source to be cited. Is there a link showing whether or not taking immune enhancing supplements can cause a greater risk of causing this "Storm?" I've taken them on and off for years and they haven't hurt me, bdddt. Of course, everyone is different. Link to post Share on other sites
Philosopher Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Beendaredonedat said: Interesting read, thanks, Carhill. Now I'm wondering if taking immune enhancing supplements is going to cause the phenom as was implied after the poster mentioned she was taking supplements to boost her immunity? That was my point in asking for the source to be cited. Is there a link showing whether or not taking immune enhancing supplements can cause a greater risk of causing this "Storm?" This article implies that zinc, one of the more common immune system enhancement supplements helps regulates the immune system and helps reduce inflammation caused by the immune system, so maybe it could reduce the risk of this storm from occurring: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21372790 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 The key here is intensive care unit beds. in the Italian experience, one in 10 positive cases end up in ICU, due to lung failure requiring ventilation, then BP issues, kidney failure and liver damage. Seems the old and infirm crashed early in the disease, they filled up the ICU beds. They got better, are still in ICU or died and now beds are needed for younger patients who have struggled on and are now in need of an ICU bed. But beds are now scarce in overcrowded hospitals with little resources According to one report, people with existing medical conditions make up a very small number of those in ICU, so being "healthy" may be no protection. Staffing of ICUs is going to be so important. According to one doctor in the NHS today, he is seeing patients with no extra protection provided. If we want a functioning health service that can fight this disease then we need to take better care of the staff, NOW not later when it is too late. The "don't scare the horses" policy to protect the stock markets needs to be stopped right away in the UK IMO. We are still all too laid back and complacent atm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author gaius Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 The spokesperson for the nursing home in Seattle that's been hit by the virus said yesterday that the CDC still isn't providing enough tests for all the residents and staff. At this point they should be testing pretty much anyone who's shows symptoms, irregardless of their contacts with other potential patients, and they can't even test everyone at the heart of an outbreak. Never imagined in a million years this level of incompetence was possible. My wife and I are having a date day out today, after that we'll probably only go out for work/regular shopping trips for a while. With the way things are going and the response being as lackluster as it is there's no other smart option unfortunately. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
K.K. Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Now in Virginia :-( Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) There was a community-spread case confirmed in DC (meaning, the patient has no history of travel or direct contact with known affected countries or US cities). Which means there are almost certainly other cases in the city that are not yet diagnosed. It's difficult because it is allergy season here right now, and everyone around me is sniffling and coughing like crazy. I'm sure there are people who think it's just that. Without the tests, we can't know. The waiting around is kind of awful. At some point they will likely close schools and other public services for some period of time, but I imagine it's difficult to create concrete plans because the govt is trickle-truthing the data, forcing all inquiries to go thru the VP which creates a stupid bottleneck, and making it insanely difficult to know anything, such as: # of actual diagnosed cases and #of tests available/sent to states. US surgeon general yesterday refused to answer a point-blank question about how many tests have already been administered, told CNN's Jake Tapper to go to CDC for that data, and Tapper informed him promptly that nope, CDC has removed that data from the website. Seriously, WTF. Hiding the truth is shameful, and it's definitely shades of the Spanish flu epidemic, where governments actively hid the scale of the problem and that definitely made it more deadly. For eff's sake, get it together, like, yesterday. Infuriating. Edited March 8, 2020 by serial muse 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Beendaredonedat Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Philosopher said: This article implies that zinc, one of the more common immune system enhancement supplements helps regulates the immune system and helps reduce inflammation caused by the immune system, so maybe it could reduce the risk of this storm from occurring: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21372790 Thank you for that link, Philosopher. I have Just been trying to stop a run-away-train of panic about supplementing one's immune system and doing so can cause this "storm" Quote On 3/6/2020 at 7:15 PM, sothereiwas said: For a lot of these flu-like viruses I'm fairly certain the immune response is actually what kills people. Edited March 8, 2020 by Beendaredonedat fixed quote box Link to post Share on other sites
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