Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[CaliforniaGirl]

31 minutes ago, Ellener said:

36% of Americans live in rental properties. 

I'm really scared right now and I have money in the bank.

People with dark skin have been screwed over since day one of America, and anyone who says otherwise has lost touch with reality.

 

 

Or is outrageously entitled and likes things just fine this way.

[NuevoYorko]

On 9/19/2020 at 6:50 AM, Weezy1973 said:

 If  an area sees death rates and hospitalizations rising again consistently, they’ll tighten up restrictions again. And this back and forth will continue until there’s a vaccine or effective treatment. At least in jurisdictions that follow science. 

So, generally, not in the United States.

[Veronica73]

On 9/23/2020 at 9:58 AM, Piddy said:

I hear ya @Veronica73.   You can still go out and socialize, just wear your mask.  I still play golf, but we practice social distancing etc..  And yes the flu season should be lessened.  Hang in there Veronica.   You'll be fine.

Thanks. I will hang in.

But winter is coming    Winters here are trying (and long) even without a pandemic. 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

3 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

Yeah, Hollywood seems to be a little racist.

The fact is that most black people in America are doing all right, not much worse overall than we all do overall.  Like I said, 70% of PoC and 80% overall are working class or better in America. That's a difference but it's not a staggering difference, and it means that most PoC in America are doing OK if any of us are. Poor people of all colors have it tougher financially, that's definitional. It's just not mostly about color. 

 

You're still really stepping out there  with your bold generalizations.       Like throwing a golf ball through a hula hoop.

 

Anybody could opine that (Corona virus or not)...   "most Americans are doing all right"  and only idiots would dispute it.

 

With regard to the last part, all of this race-related stuff pops-up largely because those being wronged because they're poor, have no recourse, unless they, with the media's help, can step over beneath the POC umbrella to attempt to win sympathy from those who will believe anything spouted by the media, while suggesting to the society around them that they were wronged because of their skin, and not because of their financial worth.

 

Some countries around the world have riots perpetrated by poor people, and they amass huge gatherings...  AND they are fortunate enough to be nearly all the same color, so the rioting of the poor is better defined than what America has.   The media in those places is effectively disarmed  in their always attempt to try to make the rioting of the poor seem to be about race.  And of course the rioting does no good, because it's the poor...

 

... which in turn fuels the American media to make everything about race, because there are laws against discrimination based on race, and because they know they'd get nowhere with attempting to inspire the viewers to watch and sympathize with the plight of the poor.

 

Use Covid as an example:   Covid doesn't care one iota about the color of your skin.        (or maybe the Chinese are immune to new cases since April?)

 

Although it is really easy to state that in America, Covid affects POC disproportionately to the degree it affects whites...    but it is a function of money, and not the virus itself.   The less money you have, the more likely it is that you're living in overcrowded, less-sanitary conditions.  It's as clear as a bell, and yet the media conveniently omits the obvious, and just reports statistics that aren't controlled for individual wealth, and those fuel incomplete beliefs and lots of misunderstandings.

 

 

[Ellener]

6 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Or is outrageously entitled and likes things just fine this way.

And it's something I've learned about myself in 2020, I wasn't listening.

A few years ago my friend told me her two boys were detained by police at a pool party, she said they sent all the white teenagers home. I responded as a white person= let's complain. 

What I have learned in recent times is black people can't complain in the same way I could as a white person.

If I'd been there when those police murdered George Floyd I'd like to think I would have intervened. And people did try to intervene, but the police were too far on the wrong side of justice. 

Always know right from wrong is what I grew up with. 

And it's always about kindness. 

The nurses and doctors who cared for Covid- kindness.

I am tired of saying it but love and kindness is all we have, and all we need.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Haydn]

I`ll give my take. In London things got back to some kind of normal, the kids are at school and it seems to be working well. They have their classroom bubbles etc. And the school has got rid of it`s more  stupid rules during all this. I have been to the pub in my bubble. There were a few protests, (David Icke) Made an appearance. BLM protests as well. But i`ll leave that for the other threads. I have this feeling that if a strict lockdown is imposed it won`t go down well. I can see quite a few problems. People are fed up. Going broke if they are not covered by the government schemes. The rules are confusing and the Police are sometimes unsure as how to proceed.

 

[Ellener]

17 minutes ago, Haydn said:

 

The rules are confusing and the Police are sometimes unsure as how to proceed.

 

So be kind. 

[clia]

Has anyone seen any studies about the efficacy of fabric or surgical masks in more "real world" type conditions?  For example, masks not washed or replaced regularly, kept in pockets/purses/countertops/tables, being touched/adjusted while wearing, effects of sweat (e.g., wearing it at an amusement park/zoo/sports in warm weather), etc.  I feel like most of the studies I've seen have looked at more sterile type settings, like healthcare, when it seems like your average person is not being so careful.      

[sothereiwas]

21 minutes ago, clia said:

Has anyone seen any studies about the efficacy of fabric or surgical masks in more "real world" type conditions?  For example, masks not washed or replaced regularly, kept in pockets/purses/countertops/tables, being touched/adjusted while wearing, effects of sweat (e.g., wearing it at an amusement park/zoo/sports in warm weather), etc.  I feel like most of the studies I've seen have looked at more sterile type settings, like healthcare, when it seems like your average person is not being so careful.      

You left out "pulling the mask down over their chin to speak, or while working alone on a task, or otherwise not wearing the darn thing correctly"

I've spent quite a lot of time visiting the local ICU recently and while sitting there talking to a man who will never wake up, I've watched the ICU staff routinely pull their masks down around their necks or chins while working at a workstation or conversing amongst themselves in the bullpen that's central to the ICU. In the room, the doctor pulled his mask down to give instructions to the ICU lead nurse. I have no major issue with this behavior, everything except the bead clutching attachment to a mask seems pretty rational. 

People in the local Costco wearing their mask over mouth only while pushing their cart around. People wearing just a plexiglass shield. 

The real world effectiveness of these talismans is probably a lot less than people expect. 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by sothereiwas

[Ellener]

12 minutes ago, clia said:

Has anyone seen any studies about the efficacy of fabric or surgical masks in more "real world" type conditions?  For example, masks not washed or replaced regularly, kept in pockets/purses/countertops/tables, being touched/adjusted while wearing, effects of sweat (e.g., wearing it at an amusement park/zoo/sports in warm weather), etc.  I feel like most of the studies I've seen have looked at more sterile type settings, like healthcare, when it seems like your average person is not being so careful.      

What we are being told here in America is it stops transmission of aerosoled virus, so we don't cough or sneeze on anyone inadvertently. It also serves as a visual reminder to keep distance.

There are many studies about the use of PPE, but in this case we are not using face-coverings as medical PPE. It's basically harm-minimisation.

The best thing to do is still stay home separate whilst the pandemic rages through our communities, if you can.

 

 

[sothereiwas]

43 minutes ago, Ellener said:

The best thing to do is still stay home separate whilst the pandemic rages through our communities, if you can.

What if it's not raging through our community?

[Ellener]

7 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

What if it's not raging through our community?

It will. Trust me! We went from no cases in Houston to everyone got sick within a week. The week the bars re-opened.

We had about 6 weeks where the hospital emergency beds were all full. In a huge city with the world's largest medical centre. 

We are very skilled here in emergency management and medical practitioners, but 15 587 people already died of tested Covid in Texas. 

Yesterday I wrote that 201 000 people died of Covid in the US, today that number is 203 000.

If Covid has not affected your community you are just lucky. 

 

 

 

 

 

[sothereiwas]

14 minutes ago, Ellener said:

It will. Trust me! We went from no cases in Houston to everyone got sick within a week. The week the bars re-opened.

We've been gradually reopening, no raging, but then it never was really here. Possibly a mistake to expect every place to have the same uniform experience I reckon. 

[Ellener]

17 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

We've been gradually reopening, no raging, but then it never was really here. Possibly a mistake to expect every place to have the same uniform experience I reckon. 

It doesn't hurt to social distance, wear the face coverings and wash our hands.

People should have been doing some of this stuff anyway in regards to food hygiene etc!

 

[sothereiwas]

39 minutes ago, Ellener said:

It doesn't hurt to social distance, wear the face coverings and wash our hands.

People should have been doing some of this stuff anyway in regards to food hygiene etc!

The face covering for the genpop I'm not particularly down with, but the rest I've always done anyway. 

[Ellener]

During WW2, which was a very long war in the UK, 6 years, there was a song 'When the lights go on all over the world'. Now it's when the masks come off all over the world. Fear may be new to us, but it's not new to most of humanity even in 2020. 

One of the blessings of 2020 has been a deeper understanding of empathy across the globe. Whether we will do anything about it...remains to be seen. 

Yemen, Somalia, Venezuela, Libya, Myanmar, Nigeria and Sudan are the worst humanitarian crises in the world today. 

I am thankful that the accident of my birth did not place me in those countries. Everything I take for granted every day is denied to so many people.

*

When the lights go on again all over the world
And the boys are home again all over the world
And rain or snow is all that may fall from the skies above
A kiss won't mean "goodbye" but "hello to love"

When the lights go on again all over the world
And the ships will sail again all over the world
Then we'll have time for things like wedding rings and free hearts will sing
When the lights go on again all over the world

When the lights go on again all over the world
And the ships will sail again all over the world
Then we'll have time for things like wedding rings and free hearts will sing
When the lights go on again all over the world

[clia]

43 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

The face covering for the genpop I'm not particularly down with, but the rest I've always done anyway. 

What makes no sense to me is having to wear a mask for 20 seconds when I walk into a restaurant, but then once I'm seated I can take it off and sit there for hours with no mask.  We were sitting at a restaurant bar last Friday, and I looked around the room at all the customers, unasked, laughing, talking, drinking, eating, and then looked at the staff who were forced to run around in masks, and it just seemed totally absurd.    

[NuevoYorko]

29 minutes ago, clia said:

What makes no sense to me is having to wear a mask for 20 seconds when I walk into a restaurant, but then once I'm seated I can take it off and sit there for hours with no mask.  

Any mask wearing is favorable to zero mask wearing.  

During the brief time you are wearing the mask, you are inhibiting the spread of literally millions of germs that would have been at large had you not been wearing it.  Even for 20 seconds.  

It seems like common sense,  considering that people are not prepared at all to forego lockdowns.

 

 

[clia]

21 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Any mask wearing is favorable to zero mask wearing.  

During the brief time you are wearing the mask, you are inhibiting the spread of literally millions of germs that would have been at large had you not been wearing it.  Even for 20 seconds.  

It seems like common sense,  considering that people are not prepared at all to forego lockdowns.

It's not common sense to me when it's worn for such a brief period of time and then is removed in the exact same room for two or three hours, spreading millions of the same germs in the same space anyway.  Odds are I'm spreading more germs while sitting with it off, because then I'm talking, laughing, eating, drinking, etc., whereas when I'm walking to my table with it on my mouth is closed and I'm not talking to anyone.  But I don't know.  Science.  And I guess I'm not very smart.     

[Timshel]

1 hour ago, clia said:

What makes no sense to me is having to wear a mask for 20 seconds when I walk into a restaurant, but then once I'm seated I can take it off and sit there for hours with no mask.  We were sitting at a restaurant bar last Friday, and I looked around the room at all the customers, unasked, laughing, talking, drinking, eating, and then looked at the staff who were forced to run around in masks, and it just seemed totally absurd.    

Of course it's absurd.  Restaurants and bars are open for the economy, not for preventing transmission of Covid.  You understand this and my husband and I understand as well; which is why we haven't sat in a restaurant since February.

[Ellener]

32 minutes ago, clia said:

But I don't know.  Science.  And I guess I'm not very smart.    

My understanding is it limits the transmission of any virus ( or bacteria ) simply by reducing the amount of aerosolised breath in the room if people wear face-covering.

Since being indoors with others seems to be the greatest risk of catching or spreading infection I don't go to restaurants or bars, it's easy enough to order the same things for pick up or delivery in Texas. 

I read an article yesterday which said half of the pubs and restaurants in my city will go out of business by the end of this year, so I can see the other side of the issue too. 

Plus it really is harmful to mental health to be so isolated for so long, people living alone or seniors in nursing homes who have basically been in lockdown all year.

The true cost of this pandemic will be with the depression and suicides down the road, especially here in America where there is no universal health care, no housing benefit to pay people's rent, and those workers who show up to those restaurants and bars are probably dependent on tips to survive, the employers don't even have to pay them minimum wage apparently. Which is only $7.25 in Texas anyway. But I was appalled to see some of the working conditions and wages, no wonder people are working 2 and 3 jobs! 

I think the pandemic is showing a lot of us reality as it applies to others, and we didn't understand the half of it before, or consider them properly.

Wearing a face cover is the least of hardships when you think about it...

 

 

 

 

[elaine567]

Forget rules and think of the virus.
It needs people contact in order to spread. It wants that bridge from an infected person to an uninfected person. Anything that allows free transmission means the virus is golden. 
Timshel is correct, bars and restaurants are not open for your good, they are open for the good of the economy.
They know that people will not go to a bar to sit with a mask on for 2-3 hours, so they allow them to sit maskless in order to get people into bars/restaurants.
Do they care that some will get the virus or even die? 
Not really it is a risk they are willing to take. 

[Ellener]

30 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

It needs people contact in order to spread.

That's exactly what a virus is! Bacteria can survive lots of ways but viruses have to live in hosts and be passed alive between those hosts...and most of them would not mutate like Covid-19 if people did not do inhumane things to animals such as in the wet markets. 

I'm out on a limb here as a libertarian but I agree with the president when he said this is a China virus- those 'wet markets' would not be acceptable as food sources anywhere else. The same situation happened with Ebola and people were eating infected bats or handling dead people who had been previously infected, of course that was so bad that people listened and cleaned up their food sources and practices of caring for the dead.

If we just treated our planet, all people, all animals fairly none of this would have happened. 

 

 

 

 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

4 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

We've been gradually reopening, no raging, but then it never was really here. Possibly a mistake to expect every place to have the same uniform experience I reckon. 

Correct.

 

... just every place with people

[Timshel]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

Plus it really is harmful to mental health to be so isolated for so long, people living alone or seniors in nursing homes who have basically been in lockdown all year.

 

 

 

 

 

Agree Ellener, I haven't seen my mom for six months.  My mom, who has dementia as well as most facility assisted patients in our area, haven't been able to see any family for a very long time.  We talk on the phone but I am so very much looking forward to seeing her and hopefully hugging her very soon.