CaliforniaGirl Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, schlumpy said: It was pretty common for the Native Americans to set forest fires that would open up spaces in the forest for animals to graze. Perfectly sensible considering the goal, but I think that most environmentalist would take a dim view of that practice today. That is what I'm saying. We have been manipulating nature (to generally a larger extent than other species) for tens of thousands of years at the very least. Falling back now on "but that's just nature" for one thing but not another isn't really honest. Edited May 21, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, sothereiwas said: So do we ... to a point. Remember the last time you went to see the mastodon herds? No? Neither does anyone else, because the native stone age peoples made them extinct. Apparently they were delicious and easy to find. The only reason primitive civs didn't completely rape nature is simply because they were incapable. Uh, that's exactly what I was saying.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) The current news wave was predictable: after X state opens up (and this one and this one and this one), cases spike. Also, no president has ever been re-elected during a recession, so the outlook is grim for Trump. However, I shudder to think about doddering, creepy Joe Biden as president. On a more personal note, a long-timer at my new job mentioned that discussions are underway about how to bring office workers back. She said we may all be asked to wear masks. Wearing a mask for a quick grocery trip is one thing. But I can't imagine wearing a hot, stuffy mask for 8 hours in the office every day. I hope it doesn't come to that. If it looks that grim, they should let us continue working from home. Edited May 21, 2020 by Ruby Slippers 1
schlumpy Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Does anyone have any information as to how the virus is affecting the street people population? One would think it would be hitting them as hard as the nursing homes but nary a mention on the telly.
sothereiwas Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 19 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said: The current news wave was predictable: after X state opens up (and this one and this one and this one), cases spike. Compare FL to CA and get back to me.
carhill Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 I've been keeping an eye on CA's state capitol since that's where state policy comes from and which has a substantial homeless population and, early on, in early April, put into place a few dozen new travel trailers at Cal Expo, the state fairgrounds, to house Covid-19 positive homeless residents, among other high risk groups. It's been real quiet since mid-April, I did see one report of one trailer getting an occupant. Same with testing. Sample article https://www.kcra.com/article/unsheltered-sacramento-woman-struggles-to-get-coronavirus-test/32193166 Very little since. Besides the trailers, they were setting up hotel/motel space for elderly and homeless who were testing positive. No idea on the results, all the news I search is stale, most nearly a month old. If stuff is going on, news isn't reporting it, not that Bing can find anyway.
Redhead14 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 The Washington Post 2 hours ago: Headline: Antimalarial drug touted by President Trump is linked to increased risk of death in coronavirus patients study says Excerpts: A study of 96,000 hospitalized coronavirus patients on six continents found that those who received an antimalarial drug promoted by President Trump as a “game changer” in the fight against the virus had a significantly higher risk of death compared with those who did not. People treated with hydroxychloroquine, or the closely related drug chloroquine, were also more likely to develop a type of irregular heart rhythm, or arrhythmia, that can lead to sudden cardiac death, it concluded. “It’s one thing not to have benefit, but this shows distinct harm,” said Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. “If there was ever hope for this drug, this is the death of it.” David Maron, director of preventive cardiology at the Stanford University School of Medicine, said that “these findings provide absolutely no reason for optimism that these drugs might be useful in the prevention or treatment of covid-19.” Past studies also found scant or no evidence of hydroxychloroquine’s benefit in treating sick patients, while reports mounted of dangerous heart problems associated with its use. As a result, the Food and Drug Administration last month warned against the use of the drug outside hospital settings or clinical trials.
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 The operative words being "hospitalised" and "coronavirus patients" Trump does not have the virus and neither do the 40000 people on the new trial...
BaileyB Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, elaine567 said: The operative words being "hospitalised" and "coronavirus patients" Trump does not have the virus and neither do the 40000 people on the new trial... Which is probably why they shouldn’t be taking the drug... just saying, why is he taking a drug that has no proven effect for the purpose he is taking it and has an actual proven side effect that raises the risk of death. It seems irresponsible to me, but then again I am very, very sceptical of medications.
Redhead14 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, elaine567 said: The operative words being "hospitalised" and "coronavirus patients" Trump does not have the virus and neither do the 40000 people on the new trial... I didn't say it was in response to "trial" use. Just more information. I am extremely skeptical of the trial use anyway. Edited May 22, 2020 by Redhead14
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, BaileyB said: Which is probably why they shouldn’t be taking the drug... just saying, why is he taking a drug that has no proven effect for the purpose he is taking it and has an actual proven side effect that raises the risk of death. It seems irresponsible to me, but then again I am very, very sceptical of medications. If I was over 70, obese with some heart disease and a high cholesterol (ie pretty high risk of being seriously ill or dead with this virus) and I was meeting all and sundry every day at my job then a drug that may prevent me getting the virus would be something I would definitely consider taking.
Juha Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 10:53 AM, Redhead14 said: The Washington Post 2 hours ago: Headline: Antimalarial drug touted by President Trump is linked to increased risk of death in coronavirus patients study says Excerpts: A study of 96,000 hospitalized coronavirus patients on six continents found that those who received an antimalarial drug promoted by President Trump as a “game changer” in the fight against the virus had a significantly higher risk of death compared with those who did not. People treated with hydroxychloroquine, or the closely related drug chloroquine, were also more likely to develop a type of irregular heart rhythm, or arrhythmia, that can lead to sudden cardiac death, it concluded. “It’s one thing not to have benefit, but this shows distinct harm,” said Eric Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. “If there was ever hope for this drug, this is the death of it.” David Maron, director of preventive cardiology at the Stanford University School of Medicine, said that “these findings provide absolutely no reason for optimism that these drugs might be useful in the prevention or treatment of covid-19.” Past studies also found scant or no evidence of hydroxychloroquine’s benefit in treating sick patients, while reports mounted of dangerous heart problems associated with its use. As a result, the Food and Drug Administration last month warned against the use of the drug outside hospital settings or clinical trials. I am going to call bs on this 100% This drug has been around a long time, lots of people have used it all over the world Go and read the stats on this drug and get back to me about all of this I have read up on it and it's track record of use since it's inception
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 14 hours ago, Juha said: I am going to call bs on this 100% This drug has been around a long time, lots of people have used it all over the world Go and read the stats on this drug and get back to me about all of this I have read up on it and it's track record of use since it's inception But people taking it didn't have 19. 19 compromises people in certain very specific ways. How can you just call BS on a study without even checking it out?
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 Also, while hydroxychloroquine has undoubtedly helped millions, there seems to be this perception that therefore it's basically about as harmful as half a baby aspirin. This drug has about a gazillion side effects and they run the gamut of bodily systems. Some SEs have a low incidence rate, others are up to 10% or more - that is a LOT of people. And we're talking some serious effects. The reason it's given anyway is that by the numbers, many end up benefitting, and the seriousness of the outcome without medication (often: death) outweighs the potential for the side effects. https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychloroquine-side-effects.html 1
Ellener Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 6:11 AM, schlumpy said: Does anyone have any information as to how the virus is affecting the street people population? One would think it would be hitting them as hard as the nursing homes but nary a mention on the telly. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/homeless-shelters/index.html
Ellener Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 @schlumpy in Houston money has just been allocated from a local crisis fund to support the homeless projects here, the shelters have had Covid 19 outbreaks. There are several projects to hand out food and masks and one for making hand-washing stations: ' Rise Houston Church crafted over a dozen portable hand-washing stations, placing them throughout the city in areas that have a high population of homeless people. According to its website, the church, popularly known as RISEHOUSTON, has committed to the upkeep of these hand-washing stations that they believe will be needed for years to come."On any given night, around 4,000 people sleep homeless in Houston. They can't quarantine. They can't stay safe like many of us can. They are about as vulnerable of a population as it gets," the website read. Options to service a station or create your own station at home are also available for volunteers.' 1
Juha Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 Go and see how many prescriptions and how many incidents there have been that you are talking about. Look at all the side effects compared to the amount of prescriptions it is ridiculous and why they are not showing those statistics in any article you read? Did you ever think of that? Did you ever go and look at what they are talking about? Also there have been numerous doctors using this drug around the world and have all had extreme success using it with no side effects. Have you seen any of that at all? Also you know the CDC did a study way back in 2005 and know that this drug works at inhibiting Corona virus, right? Here I will show you, since I know no one actually does research or looks for things. You can figure it out for yourself. There are also other links with information at that link There are other research you can look for if you want to actually know the truth, up to you. I gave you something to go on now it is up to you to do some due diligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/ Virol J . 2005 Aug 22;2:69. doi: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69. Chloroquine Is a Potent Inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus Infection and Spread Martin J Vincent 1, Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah, Stuart T Nichol Affiliations expand PMID: 16115318 PMCID: PMC1232869 DOI: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69 Free PMC article Abstract Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available. Results: We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations. Conclusion: Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 26, 2020 Posted May 26, 2020 We got a letter from the organization president today, saying anyone who can work from home should continue to do so, and only 25% of the normal capacity of people on each floor will be allowed for now. The guidelines on masks aren't entirely clear, but it seems you have to wear one unless you're in a private office with the door closed. Wow, it really must suck to wear a mask all day long. Hopefully, since my work is 99% brain work on the computer, I'll be working from home indefinitely. I wouldn't mind going to the office now and then, but I'd absolutely hate having to wear a mask all freaking day long.
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Juha said: Go and see how many prescriptions and how many incidents there have been that you are talking about. Look at all the side effects compared to the amount of prescriptions it is ridiculous and why they are not showing those statistics in any article you read? Did you ever think of that? Did you ever go and look at what they are talking about? Also there have been numerous doctors using this drug around the world and have all had extreme success using it with no side effects. Have you seen any of that at all? Also you know the CDC did a study way back in 2005 and know that this drug works at inhibiting Corona virus, right? Here I will show you, since I know no one actually does research or looks for things. You can figure it out for yourself. There are also other links with information at that link There are other research you can look for if you want to actually know the truth, up to you. I gave you something to go on now it is up to you to do some due diligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/ Virol J . 2005 Aug 22;2:69. doi: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69. Chloroquine Is a Potent Inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus Infection and Spread Martin J Vincent 1, Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah, Stuart T Nichol Affiliations expand PMID: 16115318 PMCID: PMC1232869 DOI: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69 Free PMC article Abstract Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available. Results: We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations. Conclusion: Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds. Where are the stats you reference? I linked stats on the incidence percentage-wise of categories of various side effects.
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Juha said: Go and see how many prescriptions and how many incidents there have been that you are talking about. Look at all the side effects compared to the amount of prescriptions it is ridiculous and why they are not showing those statistics in any article you read? Did you ever think of that? Did you ever go and look at what they are talking about? Also there have been numerous doctors using this drug around the world and have all had extreme success using it with no side effects. Have you seen any of that at all? Also you know the CDC did a study way back in 2005 and know that this drug works at inhibiting Corona virus, right? Here I will show you, since I know no one actually does research or looks for things. You can figure it out for yourself. There are also other links with information at that link There are other research you can look for if you want to actually know the truth, up to you. I gave you something to go on now it is up to you to do some due diligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/ Virol J . 2005 Aug 22;2:69. doi: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69. Chloroquine Is a Potent Inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus Infection and Spread Martin J Vincent 1, Eric Bergeron, Suzanne Benjannet, Bobbie R Erickson, Pierre E Rollin, Thomas G Ksiazek, Nabil G Seidah, Stuart T Nichol Affiliations expand PMID: 16115318 PMCID: PMC1232869 DOI: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69 Free PMC article Abstract Background: Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available. Results: We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations. Conclusion: Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds. SARS isn't 19...is this why they're not showing interchangeably in articles?
sothereiwas Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 4 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: SARS isn't 19 COVID-19 is the disease, SARS-CoV-2 is the virus. It's very similar to SARS, thus the interest in applying any SARS research to SARS-CoV-2 and checking for positive results.
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, sothereiwas said: COVID-19 is the disease, SARS-CoV-2 is the virus. It's very similar to SARS, thus the interest in applying any SARS research to SARS-CoV-2 and checking for positive results. The extent to which there are similarities have been taken into account but it is impossible to simply use their data interchangeably. The question was why the SARS study is not used for data in 19 articles. Because: they are not the same thing.
sothereiwas Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 9 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said: The extent to which there are similarities have been taken into account but it is impossible to simply use their data interchangeably. The question was why the SARS study is not used for data in 19 articles. Because: they are not the same thing. Just letting you know that at least one of the peer reviewed research papers introduced itself by saying basically what I paraphrased before discussing the results they observed.
Emilie Jolie Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 I wouldn't want to be an epidemiologist specialising in pandemics right about now. The pressure and scrutiny they are under from all quarters must be unreal... 2
CaliforniaGirl Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 4 hours ago, sothereiwas said: Just letting you know that at least one of the peer reviewed research papers introduced itself by saying basically what I paraphrased before discussing the results they observed. I can understand research introducing the subject comparing the two but I can't see how they can be used interchangeably. So that is my explanation as to why they aren't used interchangeably. That's really just common sense.
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