Novel Coronavirus COVID-19

[Ellener]

My sister is in England, I am not sure the people are actually on board with new restrictions, even government members didn't comply previously.

All I can say is Covid blitzed through Texas, but we have survived. We've had over 15 000 recorded Covid deaths. Out of 750 000 recorded cases. Many more people never got tested, and we still don't know what future immunity is provided by getting sick. 

What we can say is unlike at the start of the pandemic, the nursing is now superlative, people are surviving even serious complications. 

Thank you doctors and nurses and care people! And testers and researchers.

[Libby1]

15 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Libby,

I just read yesterday that there is a further six months restrictions on your side of the ocean.

How does that affect you on the ground? Will there be a continuation of the old rules or a watered down version that will give you more latitude?

 

Honestly, I think a lot more people are just doing what they want and ignoring the rules now.   In the early stages everybody knew exactly what the rules were and adhered to them.  Now all over Facebook I'm seeing people posting mockery of the inconsistencies in the rules.  In the early stages a lot of people would post "stay home" messages on their profile, and being really preachy about it was pretty much the done thing.  I even saw, in a local Facebook group, somebody wanting to know who to call because they'd spotted their neighbour taking their dog out more than a couple of times that day.  I should think other people told them off for that, but I remember just logging off when I saw it because it was one of those "that's enough internet for today" moments.

I think there will be a lot less tolerance for the kind of aggressively preachy "stay the f*ck home" lecturing that was all over the place back in April and May time.   

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Libby1 said:

Although the rate of infections has been climbing in the UK, we're not seeing anything like the number of deaths there were back in April. 

That is because it is early days.
In March/April we were not testing anyone apart from those turning up ill in hospital, so we had no idea of what was happening out in the community.
We only saw the tip of iceberg when the disease filtered through to the infirm and the elderly.
Now we are testing more we now are seeing the bit of the iceberg that lies below the water. The disease is rife in the young and fit as they are the ones out and about.
As the weeks go on then the more at risk people will get it, and then the hospitalisations will rise steadily, then exponentially and the deaths will follow.
Unless we manage to get a grip on the virus, by following the rules.

Edited September 23, 2020 by elaine567

[Ellener]

13 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

I think there will be a lot less tolerance for the kind of aggressively preachy "stay the f*ck home" lecturing that was all over the place back in April and May time.   

I live in Texas, and I think that's what most of us have been doing during the pandemic; people are outdoors for exercise/sports, or civil liberties marching, but otherwise we stay home. The latest thing here is the government ran out of money to pay unemployment benefits...where people can't go back to work what are we supposed to do? 

We have to be supportive of each other and care. Kindness is paramount I think. 

Whether it's words or deeds...just be kind. 

 

 

[elaine567]

22 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

Honestly, I think a lot more people are just doing what they want and ignoring the rules now.

I think that was because the rules were ever changing but in an opening up direction, so some took it upon themselves to consider it over and to go back to normal.
The brakes have just been slammed on, and we are now in this for another 6 months, which I guess is a bit sobering, BUT at least there is some clarity there.
Snap yougov poll showed 78% FOR the new rules with some even thinking they do not go far enough...

[Ellener]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I think that was because the rules were ever changing but in an opening up direction, so some took it upon themselves to consider it over and to go back to normal.
The brakes have just been slammed on, and we are now in this for another 6 months, which I guess is a bit sobering, BUT at least there is some clarity there.
Snap yougov poll showed 78% FOR the new rules with some even thinking they do not go far enough...

I used the UK recommendations for two contact friends during our Texas pandemic crisis, that was supposed t provide easy contact tracing for infection control. 

[Libby1]

12 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I think that was because the rules were ever changing but in an opening up direction, so some took it upon themselves to consider it over and to go back to normal.
The brakes have just been slammed on, and we are now in this for another 6 months, which I guess is a bit sobering, BUT at least there is some clarity there.
Snap yougov poll showed 78% FOR the new rules with some even thinking they do not go far enough...

If the curtain twitchers in our midst are eagerly pushing for more of that "you can't go out for a walk more than once a day, and you can only have your once-a-day walk with a member of your household" crap again, they can do one.  Who's going to adhere to that, after all the experts who came out to insist that the BLM protests didn't pose any significant risk?

[schlumpy]

17 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

  Who's going to adhere to that, after all the experts who came out to insist that the BLM protests didn't pose any significant risk?

It does wake you up when you observe that the rules are not the same for everyone but there is also freedom to be had from that realization.

[QuietRiot]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

That is because it is early days.
In March/April we were not testing anyone apart from those turning up ill in hospital, so we had no idea of what was happening out in the community.
We only saw the tip of iceberg when the disease filtered through to the infirm and the elderly.
Now we are testing more we now are seeing the bit of the iceberg that lies below the water. The disease is rife in the young and fit as they are the ones out and about.
As the weeks go on then the more at risk people will get it, and then the hospitalisations will rise steadily, then exponentially and the deaths will follow.
Unless we manage to get a grip on the virus, by following the rules.

Unfortunately, I have quite a few friends on Facebook that are...well...out on outside patio decks of restaurants gathered together, maskless, drinking and eating...with passive-aggressive "Not living in fear" for the moment. And, "Yeah, but then it's back to the grind and mask-wearing". 

I have to admire them for not being TOO plentiful in the snarky comments department about how they don't believe in the seriousness of the virus.

AKA, the silent majority.

I am guessing they have probably an equal amount of followers that will chastise them for taking these risks in the photos.

[elaine567]

The problem is that whilst we are all arguing among ourselves about who is right or wrong the virus just keeps on doing its thing.
A guy on the radio said something which rung home to me, about the difference between the British and the Swedes..
He said that in Sweden when the rules were produced the ordinary Swedes were trying to think up ways that they could do things that would bring the virus down quicker and more effectively.
In contrast, in the UK, the British are always trying to think up ways that they can bend the rules, and how they can get away with not following the rules and how they can ignore them without punishment.
And he is right.   

[QuietRiot]

22 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The problem is that whilst we are all arguing among ourselves about who is right or wrong the virus just keeps on doing its thing.
A guy on the radio said something which rung home to me, about the difference between the British and the Swedes..
He said that in Sweden when the rules were produced the ordinary Swedes were trying to think up ways that they could do things that would bring the virus down quicker and more effectively.
In contrast, in the UK, the British are always trying to think up ways that they can bend the rules, and how they can get away with not following the rules and how they can ignore them without punishment.
And he is right.   

That's why in the US...even though there are "mandates" galore, the anti-maskers scoff at them because it's just that..."mandates" and nothing can be enforced upon them. We've even had mayors say they won't be sending out cops to enforce people that walk into stores maskless, even though there is a GLARING sign saying to wear masks. Thus the reported Target incursion of anti-maskers, yelling "We're not gonna take it!!!" while walking through the store in protest.

In other countries, they'd be handcuffed and spending the night in the clink.

[Piddy]

Wearing a mask should've never become a culture war issue.  It should've always been a public health issue.  Health experts have said that if everyone wore a mask the virus would diminish in as little a 12 weeks.

The CDC head said recently that wearing a mask would protect him more than a vaccine would.  While a mask doesn't have 100% efficacy, it'll probably have more efficacy than a vaccine.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Piddy

[Prudence V]

3 hours ago, Libby1 said:

That's why there was so much bad feeling when the BLM marches started up. When you've had weeks and weeks of people being told "you can't go for a walk with anybody who isn't in your household, and you can't visit family members" then suddenly the rules are changed to accommodate protests in respect of something that happened in a country thousands of miles away...that's going to piss a few people off.  They didn't have much choice but to dramatically relax the rules after that.

Where I live, it wasn’t the BLM marches that got people’s backs up, it was Dom Cummings deliberately flouting regulations and driving across the length of the country *with coronavirus symptoms* to his parents’ home in Durham, and the going for a 30 mile drive on his wife’s birthday to Barnard Castle  “to test his eyesight”. And then, instead of censure, the government supporting him and BJ saying he only did “what any good father would do” - when people couldn’t be by the deathbeds of their loved ones, or be with their partners giving birth, or visit their elderly relatives suffering dementia, etc. People made terrible sacrifices to do the right thing, and Dom Cummings just shat all over that and BJ stood by and applauded like those clapping monkey toys. That finished any buy-in from the public, trashed any faith in government handling of the crisis, and led to people saying “if he can get away with it, so can I”. 

[Prudence V]

8 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I just read that all UK countries except England are banning visiting other people at home. Banning visiting your own family.

It’s not much different in England - depending on how big your family is. I have friends whose son has six kids. Because you’re not allowed to be more than six (unless you’re in the same household - they don’t have to sell off two of their kids 🤣) they can’t visit their son, because they’d be ten people. 

[elaine567]

OK I get the Dom Cummings thing but it merely gave an excuse to those who did not want to follow the rules.
Instead of saying "I am not doing that", they have the excuse of Dom Cummings to hide  behind...
Great excuse to justify what they never wanted to do in the first place...
Anti Tory, anti elite, anti Govt. anti virus...
If it hadn't been him it would have been something else.
 

[Libby1]

4 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Where I live, it wasn’t the BLM marches that got people’s backs up, it was Dom Cummings deliberately flouting regulations and driving across the length of the country *with coronavirus symptoms* to his parents’ home in Durham, and the going for a 30 mile drive on his wife’s birthday to Barnard Castle  “to test his eyesight”. And then, instead of censure, the government supporting him and BJ saying he only did “what any good father would do” - when people couldn’t be by the deathbeds of their loved ones, or be with their partners giving birth, or visit their elderly relatives suffering dementia, etc. People made terrible sacrifices to do the right thing, and Dom Cummings just shat all over that and BJ stood by and applauded like those clapping monkey toys. That finished any buy-in from the public, trashed any faith in government handling of the crisis, and led to people saying “if he can get away with it, so can I”. 

I remember reading that the government was taken aback by just how rigidly the British people were adhering to lockdown rules.  The government didn't expect such compliance, and I remember reading speculation from one journalist that this was probably partly why Cummings breached the lockdown rules.  That they just assumed that when it came to family issues, everybody would be breaking the rules.  But they weren't.  Elaine might see Britain as a nation of people enjoying breaking the rules just for the hell of it, but the reality is that a lot of people out there were making exactly the sort of sacrifices you're talking about.  In a lot of cases not getting a chance to say goodbye to a dying relative.  Mental health services have seen an increase in people suffering from depression and suicide ideation resulting from the social isolation that has become such a part of this new normal.  Some people with serious physical or mental health issues avoiding seeing a doctor because they feel like their condition pales into insignificance next to Covid.  This is not a nation filled with irresponsible people not giving a damn about anybody else.  A lot of people have made some major sacrifices this year, in many cases jeopardising their own mental health in the process.

Where I live, there was strong resistance to a protest happening.  Not because they didn't sympathise, and not because they thought there'd be any trouble, but because people had been adhering very strictly to the measures here.  I'd see pictures of social gatherings in other cities, but we weren't having anything like that here.  Everybody I knew was taking lockdown very seriously, and although I read plenty of angry commentary about Cummings on Facebook, it didn't translate into people suddenly going out and doing whatever they wanted.  I live next to a park, and people were still social distancing, talking to eachother from a distance etc after the Cummings story broke. 

Before the protest, some restrictions had been lifted allowing people to meet people from other households in small numbers.  After the protest march, I saw the difference in the park straight away.  It was back to normal with people having picnics, dogwalkers standing in groups chatting, big groups of young people hanging out there in gaggles until late in the night etc.  Stuff that hadn't been happening for months.  The protest was, basically, a catalyst for things in the park returning to normal.  And those outdoor gatherings - whether protests, or people having their park based picnics don't seem to have done any harm.  Indoors does seem to be where the real risk of infection lies.

Now we're being eased back into stricter rules.  A maximum of 6 people to meet outside, for instance.  That rule could prove quite convenient, in a cruel sort of way, for a lot of people who secretly want to exclude a particular friend or family member.  "We would  have invited you to our outdoor family gathering/friends get together, but including you would have made 7 - and we're real sticklers for those lockdown restrictions..." But plenty more will probably take the view that they're not going to exclude somebody just for the sake of sticking rigidly to a "maximum of 6" rule, in a year that has been tough for so many. 

 

[Prudence V]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

OK I get the Dom Cummings thing but it merely gave an excuse to those who did not want to follow the rules.

I’m sure there are some of those, but those are not who I was referring to. I was referring to the many well-meaning, law-abiding, “do the right thing” kind of people who went even further than the government told them to, taking it all very very seriously, volunteering to fetch medicine for their vulnerable neighbours from the surgery, going shopping for those at risk in their neighbourhood, sewing, wearing and distributing masks before they became compulsory, sewing scrubs for NHS staff, etc. People whose jobs allowed them to work from home and who felt badly for those who couldn’t, so they donated to food banks, sent hampers to the local doctors’ surgery, staffed crisis lines to speak to people whose mental health was suffering through lockdown... They weren’t looking for an excuse. They wanted to beat the pandemic. They were doing everything they could. 
 

But when the government responded as it did to Dom Cummings, they just lost it. The “blitz spirit” just evaporated in them and they realised that we were never “all in this together”, that the rules were only ever meant to apply to us, and not our overlords, and they stopped listening to anything that BJ and his cronies said. 
They’re not science deniers- they know the threat is real. But they feel that if some people are not only exempt from following the rules, but celebrated and lionised for it, then the rules have been nullified. That clapping for the NHS didn’t mean salary increases for the NHS, nor protection from being thrown out of the country those NHS staff had risked their lives for, and that it was never about “saving the NHS” because the sell-offs continued, and the “track and trace” system was handed to a crony with a history of ineptitude behind her, and the scientists were silenced when it became all about “save the economy”... 

 

It’s really sad. 

[Veronica73]

I remember back in April a lot of people where I am were thinking things would be going back to normal towards the end of May. Hah. Now it sounds like we are looking at at least another 6 months of this. I suppose if people are social distancing as they should be and washing their hands and all that stuff, flu season shouldn’t be so bad. So that’s good. But I live alone. Like....I REALLY don’t think spending this much time alone is good for people’s mental health. At least not mine. And I’m pretty f***ing introverted. But becoming extremely neurotic is better than dying, or spreading illness to people I love. 2020 is a dumpster fire.

[elaine567]

13 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

I remember back in April a lot of people where I am were thinking things would be going back to normal towards the end of May

May 2022 if we are very lucky...

[Piddy]

14 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

I remember back in April a lot of people where I am were thinking things would be going back to normal towards the end of May. Hah. Now it sounds like we are looking at at least another 6 months of this. I suppose if people are social distancing as they should be and washing their hands and all that stuff, flu season shouldn’t be so bad. So that’s good. But I live alone. Like....I REALLY don’t think spending this much time alone is good for people’s mental health. At least not mine. And I’m pretty f***ing introverted. But becoming extremely neurotic is better than dying, or spreading illness to people I love. 2020 is a dumpster fire.

I hear ya @Veronica73.   You can still go out and socialize, just wear your mask.  I still play golf, but we practice social distancing etc..  And yes the flu season should be lessened.  Hang in there Veronica.   You'll be fine.

[clia]

21 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

I remember back in April a lot of people where I am were thinking things would be going back to normal towards the end of May. Hah. Now it sounds like we are looking at at least another 6 months of this. I suppose if people are social distancing as they should be and washing their hands and all that stuff, flu season shouldn’t be so bad. So that’s good. But I live alone. Like....I REALLY don’t think spending this much time alone is good for people’s mental health. At least not mine. And I’m pretty f***ing introverted. But becoming extremely neurotic is better than dying, or spreading illness to people I love. 2020 is a dumpster fire.

Back in March we were told to stay home, flatten the curve, prevent the hospitals from getting overwhelmed.  In my state, we accomplished that goal months ago.  (There are no COVID patients in the hospital where my sister works and haven't been any for weeks.)  Hospitalizations and deaths have been low and flat for months.  (Our deaths in my state now are about equivalent to the daily death rate of the flu.)  And yet we still have huge parts of industry shut down, businesses forced to operate at lowered capacity, etc.  It's been a total bait and switch without (at least in my state) any clearly defined goals.  Instead, we have this indefinite shutdown where the Governor hasn't been required to provide any real "science or data" behind her decision making.  (And over 200 Executive Orders telling us what we can and can't do that seem to have little rhyme or reason.) 

I've noticed a marked increase in the number of people out and about over the past few weeks.  Restaurants are full even indoors; traffic is normal; stores are crowded.  It's almost like after six months people just reached their limit and have started going back to living their lives.  I'm an introvert, too, and was going stir crazy by end of May.  I agree with you that it's not good from a mental health standpoint to be ordered to stay in your homes and not see other people.  It's really been eye opening to me that our leaders have the right to even do it. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by clia

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, Libby1 said:

  Who's going to adhere to that, after all the experts who came out to insist that the BLM protests didn't pose any significant risk?

Is what the BLM protesters do a great influence on the behavior of most people in the UK?

It's not in the US.  People were toting their bazookas into state capital buildings to express their outrage at having any restrictions put upon them at all well before the murder of George Floyd.  

The president is having giant hate rallies indoors where people are packed like sardines.  Bikers are converging on small towns by the thousands and crowding into every bar and business causing major spikes.  Megachurches having their huge  rituals or whatever they do in there.  Everything is open.

BLM protests have little to zero impact on how people choose to conduct themselves on this side of the Atlantic.

[Libby1]

11 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Is what the BLM protesters do a great influence on the behavior of most people in the UK?

 

I can only speak for my own area.  I think any sort of popular protest about anything would have had the same impact.  I'm not in a big city, so if you go to something like a protest there's a strong chance that you're going to meet up with people you know.  When you've had people, especially young people, in lockdown for weeks on end and suddenly they get an opportunity to meet up with a sizeable group of their friends without having to worry about being fined for being in a large gathering....they're going to take it.  It's inevitable.  Going back to social restrictions after that bit of freedom - during summer, no less -  wouldn't be easy.  Plus, lockdown had eased slightly by that point, though you were still restricted in the number of people you could meet up with.  In theory.

There could have been a large gathering for some other reason, and I think it would have had the same impact in terms of people getting that taste of being able to meet up with their friends again and be part of a large group of people.  Reminding them of what they were missing out on.  And yes, absolutely after that things very much went back to normal in terms of people engaging in social activities outside, big groups of kids hanging out in the park etc.   

Edited September 23, 2020 by Libby1

[Ellener]

We had mass protests ( peaceful, outdoor ) here with no significant impact on the Covid infection rate, but neither did the lockdowns in the end, once it arrived and went through the city it was bad for a few weeks, the hospitals were full. 15 000 people died in Texas. 201 000 in the United States in total.

I'm donating blood this weekend, if we test positive for Covid antibodies we're asked to donate again, Covid-positive plasma is one of the treatments for the severely ill here in Texas.

Apart from my First Aid re-certification last month I haven't been anywhere indoors, a lot of the restaurants are still pick up and delivery here, the ones which are dine-in have half the regular number of tables. I'm not sure what the face-covering etiquette is, presumably take it off to eat/drink.

The biggest problem here is the money has run out to pay extended unemployment benefits, anyone who doesn't have savings is going to struggle the next few weeks. I'm starting over with a new business and training. At my age! I found there are a lot of jobs paying $10 an hour with what I consider unreasonable hours/working conditions. Workers are asked to stand for hours at a time, places like supermarkets; I can't do that and I can't imagine most people my age can without affecting their health and wellbeing. 

 

[Veronica73]

In my state cases have spiked again. I actually don’t think we ever got over the “first wave”. I’m in a college town and the college kids came back and are spreading it around. I guess it wouldn’t be so bad if it was contained to the campus area. But it’s not. It is spreading around the community. And hospital admissions have gone up *drastically*. They are back to not allowing visitors (unless it is an end of life situation, a child, or someone who can’t make healthcare decisions on their own), which I think is really sad. I’ve never had to stay overnight in a hospital. I think I’d be pretty scared. The labs who are processing the Covid tests can barely keep up. Not good.