why my empathy hurts me.

[d0nnivain]

Ugh.  I have a dear friend who has been job hunting for over a year now.  She powered down her business to run for office in 2018 but didn't get the job.  She's been unable to bring the business back to a profitable level.  Her husband is in sales & he had his territory cut in half & is facing caps.  He was told that if he earns over a certain amount in commissions the company will cut his territory more to keep him under a certain salary (seems like an idiotic business plan IMO).  The husband can't switch jobs because he does not have a college degree so the competition won't hire him despite a life time of success.  

Anyway, I had sent her some links to possible jobs a few months ago.  She got some interviews including one with a company that I thought she had great ties to (if you believe her) so I found it odd that the job lead came from me finding the ad on a national data base website.  That lead me to question the strength of her so called connections.   Anyway they hired a younger cheaper candidate. 

Be that as it may, I spoke to her the other day & she cried her eyes out.  It broke my heart.  She's terrified of losing everything. I don't think it's that dire; even at the reduced rates her husband's salary will keep a roof over their heads.   She just got 5 more rejections & can't seem to get many interviews. She worries it's age discrimination.  She has a few clients through the business but it's nowhere near where it was & for political reasons she claims to have difficulty attracting new clients.  She is a lobbyist.  I suggested she expand the subjects about which she's willing to advocate but she gives me reasons why she can't.   I sent her another list of about 25 available jobs in her area that she seems qualified for.  Again I really don't know why she didn't find these on her own; they are on big job boards.   I previously got her connected into the wine industry which is a hobby of hers, hoping to marry her skills with their needs.  Navigating various state laws in connection with internet sales is hot / expanding area.  I have no idea what became of that but since she's still unemployed I guess it went nowhere.   

I am so upset for her but really don't know if there is anything I can or should do other then listen.  I know talking to me takes piece of her soul because DH & I plus most of our friends are doing well.  Several of us are getting together in March after 2 couples get back from long glamourous overseas trips.  I know my friend is upset because she can't afford to fly up to meet us or attend the gala we're going to & she has missed several other get togethers in the past due to lack of funding.  I try not to brag.  I don't post my largess on social media.  DH & I have gone to visit her & her husband where we showed up with food & wine & basically just stayed at their house so we could all spend time together.  It was great.  

I hate seeing my friend in emotional pain.  I'm upset & worried for her but I fear she thinks I pity her.  I don't. 

What if anything should I do?  If nothing more, how do I ease my angst about all this? 

 

[preraph]

She's a qualified grown woman with a husband who has a job, and my guess is they could live comfortably even if she never gets a job if they were willing to take a step down in their spending. It doesn't sound like she's doing as much as you are for her to get a job. My guess is she is probably inflexible. What if there are financial situation is that dire, they could sell a property or she could take any job until she gets one she wants. 

 

I would think as a couple they can figure those things out. To me it sounds like there's something else stopping her. Don't you worry more than she's worrying. I'm sure at this point she's just depressed. or some people that might motivate them more and for others that can shut them down. So keep an eye on her. You're a good friend.

[alphamale]

d0nnivian why are you doing her job search for her?  I think you should stop this, it's not your responsibility.

maybe she doesn't want to work anymore?

or maybe she has some medical issue you are not aware of

Edited January 30, 2020 by alphamale

[d0nnivain]

alpha -- She doesn't have medical issues that I'm not aware of.  Women tell each other everything. 🙄  Trust me, if she was sick, I'd know.  My level of knowledge about her health is already beyond TMI.   I did the job search for her because I was awake at 4 a.m. the other day sick to my stomach with stress & worry over a business problem of mine that I couldn't fix for another 5 hours but it still kept me up so I had nothing better to do.   It was the hysterical crying that got to me.  I just felt so awful.  

[FMW]

You're a wonderful and caring friend, but at this point all you can do is just be a sounding board when she wants/needs one.  I agree with preraph that she's likely keeping her "acceptable" options very narrow, and unfortunately she's not in a position to be that choosy.  

[LivingWaterPlease]

Pray for her, d0nnivain. (I'll bet you are already). If she's a believer and both of you are comfortable with it, pray with her. I do that with many of my friends who go through tough times and they do it with me. Some of them have never done this before but I get them started and then one day they are the one making the suggestion to me that we pray together.

Otherwise, it sounds to me as if you're going the distance as a good friend! Just listening to her is a great service to her.

Possibly she's depressed is why she seems not to be looking for a job, but I don't know.  At least she's got a husband with a job.

[d0nnivain]

I have prayed for her, LivingWater, but I don't know that I'm comfortable praying with her.  I don't know why that is a boundary for me but it is.  Maybe I'll pray about that for myself.  

[Happy Lemming]

20 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

She powered down her business to run for office in 2018 but didn't get the job.  She's been unable to bring the business back to a profitable level. 

Before making a major "life change" that could affect your financial stability, any individual should "run the numbers".  Factor in the "worst case scenario".  Just because you "want" to do something doesn't mean you should or can afford to do it.  I think it is pretty selfish to embark on a endeavor like that, without having all your financial "ducks in a row" (ie large savings,  investment income coming in every month, retirement fully funded, house paid for, etc. etc.)

Please don't tell me she didn't realize "age discrimination" would be a factor in her obtaining a new job. 

I have to agree with "alphamale", I think you should stop doing her job searches for her.  I'd e-mail her a list of the job web-sites you were checking, instruct her how to use the search features (if necessary) and let it be her responsibility to look for new employment. If she asks you to review her resume' or CV, I would do that, but that should be all of your involvement in HER job search process.

Why is a grown woman crying in front of you, anyways??  If she wants to cry, do it in private... not fair to burden you with the hysterical crying and emotional baggage.   

 

[Ellener]

Sounds like she needs a counsellor, it's not much fun if the only contact with a friend is them offloading and crying.

People can live on way less than they think, there's websites like The Simple Dollar with all kinds of advice for frugal living and making the most of finances and coping with difficulties.

When I'm in the throes of anxiety disorder my best friends listen then cut me off and send letters, cards, texts of encouragement whilst I get it under control. You could do that kind of thing, or buy her lunch once in a while and say let's talk about positive stuff today.

I understand your angst, I have a friend right now who is in all kinds of financial difficulty and I've thought several times 'do I send her a check?' but since she hasn't taken control of her situation and has health issues which is a major financial blow in the US, I think I'd just be spending my own financial security on someone else and delaying the inevitable 'crash' of reality for her.

After Harvey I wasn't initially badly affected and sent $500 to some friends who were, they did come and help me empty my home when I later had to sell it but we subsequently lost touch; it changes the balance of a friendship because in truth if it were me and I accepted someone's financial help in a time of dire need ( and it would have to be dire ) I would pay it back at the first opportunity.

Pray for them, be encouraging and positive about people getting through their difficulties, they'll work it out themselves.

 

[alphamale]

11 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Pray for her, d0nnivain. 

that sounds about right LWP

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm a highly empathetic person myself, but over time I've learned to help uplift others without letting myself be dragged down in any way.

You're doing everything you possibly can to help her. Letting yourself get pulled into her negative emotions isn't going to do anyone a bit of good.

It's good for her to be surrounded with friends who are thriving. It's a good example and motivation to keep at it.

This is her journey. She probably needs to go through all this for some deeper reason, to resolve something unresolved in her soul, something deeper than you can see.

The best thing you can do is be a positive force offering support. She's not going to end up on the street. Worst case, she may have to downsize her lifestyle and simplify - this is often very good for people who do it, good for the soul. She'll be fine.

[LivingWaterPlease]

3 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

 

Why is a grown woman crying in front of you, anyways??  If she wants to cry, do it in private... not fair to burden you with the hysterical crying and emotional baggage.   

 

I'm thinking you're a man, HL! This is to address your post, which had a lot of wisdom in it, btw, and also to comment to you and to d0nnivain. I guess I'm sexist once again (not the first time I've been) but my experience has been that women feel more free to express their emotions through crying and there's something healing in tears and in being comforted by a friend. As long as you can hang in there without it affecting your emotional health, d0nnivain, I encourage you to do so. I just seemed to recall, though, that you've been through a kind of difficult time yourself? Not as much in circumstances but maybe with seasonal depression? Is that a concern of yours?

Yesterday someone I'm just getting to know who is new at our church lost her job in a humiliating way. I know the person who fired her who is, IMO, a real jerk with everybody. Long story short, she's been on the phone sobbing to me. Her life story is crushing which I'm not going to recount as I don't want to thread jack but suffice it to say, although she's a very strong woman and stoic, she's been sobbing to me in the manner you describe your good friend crying. By God's grace I will be here for her. The painful things I've been through will help me to be empathetic with her. And I know you are doing, and will continue to do, all you can for your friend. Just take care of yourself in the meantime! Plenty of sleep, eat right, and think you may be taking a weekend or a few days away to a sunny spot?

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

Why is a grown woman crying in front of you, anyways??  If she wants to cry, do it in private... not fair to burden you with the hysterical crying and emotional baggage.   

 

[Happy Lemming]

@elaine567

I watched your youtube insert. There are times to be sympathetic and times to tell people I'm not going to listen to you cry because you made a stupid decision.

When my girlfriend's mother died, she cried and I held her. 

When she cried because she can't afford a large apartment in a great part of town, I told her she was being a child, not a grown adult.

See the difference.

d0nnivain's friend leaped before she looked.  She wanted to indulge her ego and run for office at the cost of financial uncertainty and possible financial distress.  In my opinion, a very childish decision and not one that should garner sympathy. And definitely not one where d0nnivain should be forced to listen to her "cry hysterically".

 

 

[Happy Lemming]

2 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

I'm thinking you're a man, HL!

Yes, I am a man.

[d0nnivain]

3 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

d0nnivain's friend leaped before she looked.  She wanted to indulge her ego and run for office at the cost of financial uncertainty and possible financial distress.  In my opinion, a very childish decision and not one that should garner sympathy. And definitely not one where d0nnivain should be forced to listen to her "cry hysterically".

It wasn't an improvident decision.  She beat a field of 7 to win her party's nomination & she was the most underfunded.  She only lost to the ultimate winner by less then 10,000 votes even though her opponent out spent her 10 to 1.   There were lawsuits brought in other races that year because there had been some problems with the vote count especially the write ins.  

I think the wild card was she didn't predict the party shift.  As a lobbyist she is having trouble getting clients because nobody wants an advocate from the other party who can't get a meeting.  

I didn't do anything for her I didn't want to.  It was my time I spent on the job search. Honestly that night if I didn't have that do I would have made myself crazier over my problem.  My problem was why I was awake at 4 a.m. in the 1st place.  

Prayer & listening lovely but I was really hoping many of you had some concrete thoughts on how I can help.  I want to help.  I'm a helpful person.  I cannot take her to lunch.  We live almost 1,000 miles apart.  

Edited January 31, 2020 by d0nnivain

[vla1120]

@d0nnivain I understand your predicament as I also suffer from EASE (Exorbitant Amount of Stupid Empathy - my daughters coined that acronym for me.) Since I spend most of my life in front of a computer, when someone verbalizes an issue they are having in life, I usually have multiple possible solutions by way of website recommendations emailed to them within minutes, whether they are job searching, looking for in-home care for elderly family members, etc. 

Your friend may be dealing with some feelings of regret, now that things have taken a downward turn for her in life (possibly a direct results of her decisions.) I do feel pretty strongly that SHE needs to be the one spearheading her job hunt. Even though most everything is done online now, I would still be "beating the pavement" if I were her, trying to acquire a job worthy of her qualifications. Also, your group of friends should be able to enjoy the spoils of their hard work without feeling guilty about it because she does not have the financial means to partake in the activities.

It is what it is.....and here is the bottom line - while I am very empathetic towards the struggles of others, I take 100% responsibility for my own life, decisions and taking care of my business. I'd lay odds that you are the same way. Your friend can cry to you and look to you for moral and emotional support, but she needs to pull herself up by the bootstraps and start thinking outside the box for job opportunities and solutions to her problems.

[Happy Lemming]

On 1/30/2020 at 10:38 AM, d0nnivain said:

  She's terrified of losing everything.

I'm going to take that statement at face value, as its your friend's statement even though you think she may be exaggerating a bit.

I think we all have taken some financial risk from time to time.  I invested in some high-risk real estate ventures in my life, but if they went south; I wouldn't lose everything.  It would knock be back a couple of years, but I'd be able to recover.

In addition, to putting herself in harms way, she put her husband's financial well-being in harms way, as well.

As far as helping, forward the job web-sites and instructions on the best way to utilize the "search" feature within them.  If you want to help financially, purchase a gift card to her local grocery store.

I had a friend in financial distress, I called up a grocery store in the area, explained the situation and they were able to sell me a "grocery gift card" over the phone and mail it to my friend.  That put a few meals in his stomach and he was grateful.

 

[vla1120]

30 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Prayer & listening lovely but I was really hoping many of you had some concrete thoughts on how I can help.  I want to help.  I'm a helpful person.  I cannot take her to lunch.  We live almost 1,000 miles apart.  

Oh. In that case, there are websites out there specifically for people over 50 who are having trouble finding good jobs in their fields because companies are more likely to hire younger people for less money. I know I cannot reference websites out here, but if you "search" about getting jobs later in life - or something like that - you'll come up with a list of websites, some of which reference how to find a good consulting job in the desired field of work, etc. I hope that gives enough information without violating any ls rules!!

Edited January 31, 2020 by vla1120

[vla1120]

Also, since she lives 1,000 miles away, perhaps you could also find some resources for her in that area that might help her (or her husband) in her job hunt?

[LivingWaterPlease]

Send her cards with encouragement, stuff like "Hang in there" type cards with loving thoughts! Just reminders that you're there and care for her and her ordeal is a big deal in helping her get through this, d0nnivain. 

[d0nnivain]

1 hour ago, vla1120 said:

@d0nnivain I understand your predicament as I also suffer from EASE (Exorbitant Amount of Stupid Empathy - my daughters coined that acronym for me.) 

Your daughters are insightful! Love the acronym.  

[mrs rubble]

Maybe suggest she visit an employment agency?

[d0nnivain]

She needs a head hunter not an employment agency & she has seen several or so she tells me.  I can only go by what she says.  She has always been ambitious.  I'm sure part of the drama is that she's used to being the one in charge, not the one needing help.  

[preraph]

It's the best economy we've ever had for finding a job. people who have worked so hard to accomplish so much often have a really hard time swallowing their pride and just going out and asking for jobs. She should have enough contacts that she could just make phone calls 2 the owners or managers or partners or whatever they are. it's kind of like actors and actresses who feel like once they've had a big success they shouldn't have to audition. Although I understand it's probably all complicated by a depression which does make it hard to function.