GuitarGuy7 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I'm a college student and last semester, I joined a film production club that has a wide array of guys and girls and I joined because I thought that it would be a good opportunity to meet people. If you are familiar with my threads, then you know that being an incel (by definition) is something that I struggle with and that I have joined a bunch of clubs to try and improve my social skills and maybe even meet a girl. Well anyways, there was a party tonight and I decided to go to hopefully have fun, meet people, and hopefully talk to some girls. When I arrive at the party, I walk in and there are already some people there; nobody acknowledged me or said hello. Everybody is talking to one another and I am on the outskirts of social circles trying to break in, but I don't have much luck. A few other guys show up and all of a sudden, everybody perks up and says hello to them. I watch as the girls are friendly and receptive towards these men while mostly ignoring me, it would have been hard for me to talk to girls anyways since most of them are in their own social circle talking to someone else. I do manage to have a bit of conversation with several men though; I find it easier to talk to men because I am naturally more comfortable around them but around girls, i'm pretty terrible. Men are also more receptive towards me in general while women tend to either ignore me or not even know I exist. There is one girl there who is the president of the club; she's super nice and friendly to everyone but around me, she's very guarded and closed off and I can tell she doesn't like me too much for reasons I don't understand. I talked about this in a previous thread about how one day, I arrived 20 minutes before the club started and tried being nice to her but she looked annoyed and disgusted with me. Anyways, while I was at the party, I decided that I would go up and try and talk to her again, maybe to give her the benefit of the doubt and also because I want practice talking to girls, I wasn't trying to flirt with her or anything. And this is the part where I messed up; I asked her whether she lived alone and who here roommates were, my intention was I was just trying to make conversation but it was probably interpreted as creepy on her part and combine that with my overall awkwardness, she wasn't too pleased with the words I said. She looked at me with a look of fear and disgust and I could tell she was getting pretty defensive, the guy who was also in the social circle was also making a facial expression that implied that I said something wrong. I left the party a few minutes after that; I was planning on leaving anyways because it was a small apartment and with too many people and I didn't really know anybody well enough. On the ride home, I felt like such an idiot, and I realize that I suck at talking to girls. I have aspergers so social skills are bad for me, and to be honest, I just want to be liked and acknowledged by women, i'm tired of feeling like i'm ignored and not even acknowledged and whenever I do put myself out there, I get treated like trash half of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I can relate to this....you just need to move past it and not dwell on it. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Piddy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Go see a life coach or dating coach. You need to learn some basic social skills. Also, are there any other people with Aspergers in your group? Wouldn't you be a better match with someone who can relate to what you're dealing with? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Blind-Sided Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I've chimed in on your other threads... so I know the drill. But I do have a couple questions... 1) The prez of the club......... I know you said she is friendly to others, but one you. I also know from your other threads that you were almost targeting clubs to find a girl, over just joining a club you like, and see what happens. Since you showed up early in the past, and talked to her (I don't know about what)... is it possible that you made her feel targeted? 2) Since you made an "Apartment" comment... I'm assuming this wasn't a campus/dorm party. Why did you think it would be OK to ask her about her living situation? The reason I ask is... if she lives alone, off campus... that's kind of a stocker'ish question. In this case... assuming it wasn't her apartment.... would have been "do you live on campus or off?" Then, follow up with a non-intrusive question like... "Oh, cool... why did you decided to live there?" 3) When you got to the party... why didn't you just grab a drink, and edge your way into a conversation circle? Don't be intrusive... but just walk up, and listen. Eventually, someone will ask your opinion. OR... you can just make a light comment agreeing, or disagreeing with something said. 4) I know you said it's easier to talk to guys... and I understand (no stress)... but you seem opposed to that. Why? Getting to know the guys in a group, who are established, will gain your access to more people in your club. Just keep going to the meetings, and hanging with other club members. Don't try so hard to meet the girls, because... believe it or not... most of them can sense desperation, and its a big turn off. Good luck 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I am going to ask a customer of ours about a book he was quoting from, he has Asperger's and was explaining communication styles and why they do and don't work from an Aspergers point of view. I'll see him Tuesday. I would stop using the label 'incel' definitely to others but also inside your own head, it's negative. 1% of the world's population has Asperger's so I am sure you can find a supportive community with people who understand better, but also there's a new book 'Our Autistic Lives: Personal Accounts from Autistic Adults Around the World Aged 20 to 70+ ' in which people describe their lives which might help you feel less alone and give you some ideas. Be patient, keep working on yourself, you're only young, you'll work all this out. Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Did this woman organize the party? If so, for future reference, it would have been much more appropriate to approach her and THANK her for organizing the part for everyone instead of approaching her to ask her if she lives alone. Before you approached her, did you run possible topics of conversation through your head? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
VioletVelvet Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Ellener said: I would stop using the label 'incel' definitely to others but also inside your own head, it's negative. Oh yeah. Beyond negative. It's associated with men targeting and killing women in addition to saying most females deserve to be raped. When I read that word in your post I was taken aback. Is it possible you might have used this term with anyone you know? Because if you've ever said it out loud even to a guy, it could have got out into the general population and then the women would have a valid reason to be afraid of you. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites
K.K. Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, VioletVelvet said: Oh yeah. Beyond negative. It's associated with men targeting and killing women in addition to saying most females deserve to be raped. When I read that word in your post I was taken aback. Is it possible you might have used this term with anyone you know? Because if you've ever said it out loud even to a guy, it could have got out into the general population and then the women would have a valid reason to be afraid of you. Real talk. That’s what I was thinking too. If you’ve ever said that to anybody OP, you’re going to be seen as a potential threat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
The Outlaw Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Don't let that stop you from trying. Since she doesn't like you for whatever reason, don't give her the time of day next time you see her or look in her direction. Take what happened as a learning experience and practice makes perfect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author GuitarGuy7 Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, VioletVelvet said: Oh yeah. Beyond negative. It's associated with men targeting and killing women in addition to saying most females deserve to be raped. When I read that word in your post I was taken aback. Is it possible you might have used this term with anyone you know? No, iv'e not told anybody that i'm an incel. I mostly post about my dating woes online, I don't go around in real life telling people i'm a virgin or anything. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author GuitarGuy7 Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 Also, several people who are in this club are also in other clubs that I go to; some of them know this girl pretty well. So it may be possible that somewhere along the way, I creeped someone out and they started talking negatively about me to their friends and that might be why this girl doesn't really like me very much. All it takes is for one girl to think you're a total creep and there goes your reputation... because girls like to gossip to their other friends about this kind of stuff. But from what I can tell, I haven't done anything that would make a girl completely creeped out by me. I haven't said anything mean or rude and I haven't made any sexual advances towards anybody, so I really don't see what's the problem. I can be quirky at times, and maybe somebody thinks i'm a weirdo because of it. Link to post Share on other sites
VioletVelvet Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said: No, iv'e not told anybody that i'm an incel. I mostly post about my dating woes online, I don't go around in real life telling people i'm a virgin or anything. Ok good. Please please please don't ever use that word out loud or to yourself. It may have originally meant one thing but it means something completely different now. From others' responses I imagine that somewhere you've spoken of having Aspergers. Social cues are touchy things and often difficult for people to read even when they don't have this hurdle. I strongly suggest you take the advice of @Ellener and @Piddy and learn more about navigating the social world. I also agree with @Blind-Sided's points. The main thing is, don't go into any situation thinking "I might meet girls" or "I have to talk to girls" or "I want to meet girls" -- that is putting too much pressure on yourself and the situation, and will definitely come across as suspicious to the women there. Just go into a social situation thinking "I'm going to be interested in what other people say." People like to talk about themselves and you being genuinely interested in them, male or female, can help a lot. Also –– and I understand this might not be comfortable but could be VERY helpful –– you can tell people that you have Aspergers. Tell them that sometimes you have a hard time reading social cues. This will bring out their innate desire to help you and be more understanding. I know a couple of people with Aspergers and know this because they're open about it, and I know at least a couple of people who I believe have it and don't talk about it, and the former group do far better socially. I just saw your last response and the reality is, PEOPLE gossip. It's part of human nature, and I can get into the reasons here but won't. Helping the people around you to understand why you're a bit quirky but also appearing genuinely interested in them as human beings will go a long way in reversing the negative perception. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said: But from what I can tell, I haven't done anything that would make a girl completely creeped out by me. But you have. You approached a young woman and asked her if she lived alone. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 You already knew she didn't LIKE you. Why would you talk to her again? On what planet was that going to go well? I think you make decisions you already know will bring you failure. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, VioletVelvet said: I strongly suggest you take the advice of @Ellener and @Piddy and learn more about navigating the social world. I also agree with @Blind-Sided's points. The main thing is, don't go into any situation thinking "I might meet girls" or "I have to talk to girls" or "I want to meet girls" -- that is putting too much pressure on yourself and the situation, and will definitely come across as suspicious to the women there. Just go into a social situation thinking "I'm going to be interested in what other people say." People like to talk about themselves and you being genuinely interested in them, male or female, can help a lot OP. You clearly can navigate the world and to the poster above, what is he suppose to do in his situation? I think he has every right to be bitter but he should let it good too. I strongly suspect his inexperience is plastered across his face and it comes across as awkward and that a combination which cannot ever lead to a win UNLESS you find the equivalent. Why should be he be interested in what others say if they aren't interested in him? I don't get this all politically correct, people need to tell it how it is sometimes or one might as well be a carpet. OP is sympathise with this situation as its one I have encountered many times and its a rather crushing feeling but you need to move past it. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 What's he supposed to do? Take a hint. He already knew she didn't like him! He continued to be persistent! And then he wonders why he fails. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, preraph said: What's he supposed to do? Take a hint. He already knew she didn't like him! He continued to be persistent! And then he wonders why he fails. Why not, she does not need to be rude. What he needs to do is harden his approach and not let things like this upset him, I'd simply have left and left the group too. What's in it for him? Nothing really. All he did was go home feeling bad and she couldn't care less ultimately, he needs to care less about whether these interactions work or not. As people we have massive inner strength which we should use when confronted by situations like this. The problem is OP is continually being beaten down by ladies, he is basically on the floor all the time, he needs to get up, summon up every bit of confidence and continue with life. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 When a woman doesn't like you, leave her alone! That IS creepy. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 There will always be people who don't like you. Even the most charming, friendly, sociable people can rub up some the wrong way. This girl for whatever reason has not shown herself to be friendly to you. The answer to that is to give her a quick "Hi" and a nod as she is the president of the club, and then leave her alone. You can't go about trying to persuade people to like you. That rarely works. You have to give them space to work out whether they like you or not. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, GuitarGuy7 said: But from what I can tell, I haven't done anything that would make a girl completely creeped out by me. I haven't said anything mean or rude and I haven't made any sexual advances towards anybody, so I really don't see what's the problem. I can be quirky at times, and maybe somebody thinks i'm a weirdo because of it. You have, and likely have at other times as well hence your reputation. Asking if someone living alone is creepy for all the reasons others have said. I do believe the Asperger is a large part of it, you may not be able to intuit or pick up on the cues those around you give off or know what is creepy or not. It's like you have been dropped in a foreign land and know nothing of the customs. People can be understanding if they knew you have Aspergers and if you can speak logically about it and how you can completely miss things that can go a long way, kind of like apologizing ahead of times. I do strongly, strongly suggest a support group and as much help as you can get to learn about the neurotypical world. Yes you are being completely misunderstood, it sucks. Yet you are not alone. I've had a few male friends on the spectrum, the ones who are married find them to be the most loyal and devoted of men, and at work talk about dedication and attention to detail. In social situations though yah, have seen how they can almost magically gravitate to saying the "wrong thing." With a little support one can do much better. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I'm sure his autism figures in, but, he KNEW she didn't like him, so that wasn't it here. I'm guessing she was the prettiest girl there and that's why he persisted. Not smart and very self-defeating. Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, preraph said: What's he supposed to do? Take a hint. He already knew she didn't like him! He continued to be persistent! And then he wonders why he fails. I believe that is the very issue. A person on the spectrum has a hard time picking up on hints let alone taking them. The closet analogy I can think of for neurotypicals (which includes me) is the cultural differences between Japan and the US. The Japanese are unfailing polite and they realize we are barbarians, so you may not know it, yet many very common American cultural interactions which we think are polite or just normal are offensive and clear bad manners in Japan. When you speak, hand shakes, eye contact, how you handle a business card, how you handle a gift, what colors mean, on and on. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, preraph said: I'm sure his autism figures in, but, he KNEW she didn't like him, so that wasn't it here. I'm guessing she was the prettiest girl there and that's why he persisted. Not smart and very self-defeating. Agreed, it's hard though from knowing and then acting appropriately, very hard. May not seem that way to us. Hence strongly recommend a support group that can help explain the strange culture neurtypicals have to you GG7, and how to navigate it Edited February 2, 2020 by SumGuy 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I agree, but he said in his original post he already KNEW she didn't like him. He says, "I can tell she doesn't like me." So he IS able to pick up on that. And then he just creeped on her anyway trying to get personal with her. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author GuitarGuy7 Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SumGuy said: I do believe the Asperger is a large part of it, you may not be able to intuit or pick up on the cues those around you give off or know what is creepy or not. It's like you have been dropped in a foreign land and know nothing of the customs. Or dropping your 80 year old grandma into a game of Call of Duty. Edited February 2, 2020 by GuitarGuy7 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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