I went to a party tonight and I had a really bad experience.

[SumGuy]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

I agree, but he said in his original post he already KNEW she didn't like him.  He says, "I can tell she doesn't like me."  So he IS able to pick up on that.  And then he just creeped on her anyway trying to get personal with her.  

Unfortunately I am not surprised at all if he is on the spectrum by that.   Yes he knew but did not know the way to act on that knowledge in the neurotypical world.  As much as it seems obvious to us, it's not obvious to him.  Why there is so much misunderstanding.  Then again, he thought his approach and conversation were fine, he thought he was approaching in a way that was fine even if she didn't like him.  In a way it is almost a definition of being on the spectrum, these things just do not come natural at all.

[SumGuy]

6 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

Or dropping your 80 year old grandma into a game of Call of Duty.

Yes.      

GG7 I got to get ready soon for the SuperBowl, but if you do believe you are on the spectrum I strongly encourage you to find a support group before trying to pick up on women/ask them out. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by SumGuy

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

21 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

The closet analogy I can think of for neurotypicals (which includes me) is the cultural differences between Japan and the US.  The Japanese are unfailing polite and they realize we are barbarians, so you may not know it, yet many very common American cultural interactions which we think are polite or just normal are offensive and clear bad manners in Japan.  When you speak, hand shakes, eye contact, how you handle a business card, how you handle a gift, what colors mean, on and on.   

Excellent analogy.

[preraph]

Of course, he's been on Loveshack long enough to have read that you don't keep approaching women who don't like you.  

[GuitarGuy7]

I'm so angry and upset with myself, I just want to be loved and accepted by women, not be shunned and treated like i'm a sub-human. 

I just remember back in 8th and 9th grade how I used to be made fun of by women; they would call me ugly, a creep, a weirdo, I had women flat out avoid me and run away when I tried to talk to them and it hurt so bad.

Now it's 11-12 years later and things haven't really changed. I thought things would get better in my twenties, I really did.  I'm a 25 year old man, still a kissless virgin who's never had any success with women and i'll probably still be single at 30. This is a nightmare situation. 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

8 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I'm so angry and upset with myself, I just want to be loved and accepted by women, not be shunned and treated like i'm a sub-human. 

I just remember back in 8th and 9th grade how I used to be made fun of by women; they would call me ugly, a creep, a weirdo, I had women flat out avoid me and run away when I tried to talk to them and it hurt so bad.

Now it's 11-12 years later and things haven't really changed. I thought things would get better in my twenties, I really did.  I'm a 25 year old man, still a kissless virgin who's never had any success with women and i'll probably still be single at 30. This is a nightmare situation. 

I'm sure it is terrrible to be misunderstood like you are. But, GG, at some point you have to take control of the reigns and GET SOME HELP.  There are resources out there to help you.  Why won't you take that step?

[GuitarGuy7]

I think i'm just going to ignore her completely; I really don't know what her problem with me is.  I'm not even trying to hit her up or flirt with her.  Maybe she's just a stuck up sorority girl, or she's the type of girl who won't even talk to you if she thinks you're ugly. 

I think she's a stuck up sorority chick, that's what I think she is.  She and one of the other girls in charge who also looks and talks at me with disgust and hate.  I bet they wouldn't be so rude to 6 ft tall, good looking Chad. 

Yeah they're pretty girls, whatever...   Many (not all) hot 21 year old girls have terrible personalities because guys will like them anyways regardless of how they are as a person. Iv'e seen women who are complete butt holes; but because they're hot, they can find a boyfriend pretty quickly.  It just goes to show you that if you're hot, you can get away with being rude, mean, and just a terrible person. 

And when you're not that good looking like myself, you see peoples true colors a lot quicker because people arne't putting up a front around you.  

 

 

 

[SumGuy]

5 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I'm so angry and upset with myself, I just want to be loved and accepted by women, not be shunned and treated like i'm a sub-human. 

I just remember back in 8th and 9th grade how I used to be made fun of by women; they would call me ugly, a creep, a weirdo, I had women flat out avoid me and run away when I tried to talk to them and it hurt so bad.

Now it's 11-12 years later and things haven't really changed. I thought things would get better in my twenties, I really did.  I'm a 25 year old man, still a kissless virgin who's never had any success with women and i'll probably still be single at 30. This is a nightmare situation. 

High school can be cruel for everyone.

What you are doing isn't working so again would suggest finding a support group best for you to help, colleges often have these.

I'll continue with my Japanese vs US culture examples.  In Japan they have courses for people who need to live in America or work with American's extensively so they can learn our ways, alas nothing seems to prepare them for our love of sandwiches    Likewise, when I worked with an international company with a large presence in Japan I took courses provided by the company on Japanese culture.   

It's unrealistic to have assumed I could have figured this out on my own, one culture's manners are not more obvious or right or wrong than another (in most cases),  likewise in your case.  What's self defeating is to assume people will just get you and vice versa, and even more self defeating to not realize you need help to bridge the gap, or avoid getting it. 

All my examples, and those of many others, are to help show you it is not hopeless with a little help.

[GuitarGuy7]

5 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

I'm sure it is terrrible to be misunderstood like you are. But, GG, at some point you have to take control of the reigns and GET SOME HELP.  There are resources out there to help you.  Why won't you take that step?

I actually do, I took several social skills classes for people with autism growing up.  I even took a relationship & dating class over the summer which specialized in adults with autism. I am not sure if it was extremely helpful but we mostly practiced talking to one another in 1 on 1 settings.   And then joining clubs.

The funny thing is that guys like me, I have a steady group of guy friends.  And I am friendly with another girl who's around my age who is married, and another girl in the college.  But other than that, i'm terrible with women. 

[nospam99]

I have an Aspie son, now a young adult. There is a difference for 'them' between intellectually knowing that something is socially inappropriate and catching themselves before they 'do it'. Suggestions about a support group are good ideas.

Another suggestion, OP/GG. Lose the ''she's a stuck up sorority girl'' idea. Treating someone like that (UNLESS you are the alpha in the crowd and can exclude HER), is a LOSS.

Edited February 2, 2020 by nospam99

[SumGuy]

3 minutes ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I actually do, I took several social skills classes for people with autism growing up.  I even took a relationship & dating class over the summer which specialized in adults with autism. I am not sure if it was extremely helpful but we mostly practiced talking to one another in 1 on 1 settings.   And then joining clubs.

The funny thing is that guys like me, I have a steady group of guy friends.  And I am friendly with another girl who's around my age who is married, and another girl in the college.  But other than that, i'm terrible with women. 

Sounds like you have a social circle so let them set you up.  Also, will any of your guy friends be your wing man, or you tag along with them?  It can go along way if you have a guy (or girl) friend who can speak up for you and diffuse tension if you stick your foot in your mouth.

[VioletVelvet]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

I do believe the Asperger is a large part of it, you may not be able to intuit or pick up on the cues those around you give off or know what is creepy or not.   It's like you have been dropped in a foreign land and know nothing of the customs. 

People can be understanding if they knew you have Aspergers and if you can speak logically about it and how you can completely miss things that can go a long way, kind of like apologizing ahead of times.

I do strongly, strongly suggest a support group and as much help as you can get to learn about the neurotypical world.   Yes you are being completely misunderstood, it sucks.  Yet you are not alone.  I've had a few male friends on the spectrum, the ones who are married find them to be the most loyal and devoted of men, and at work talk about dedication and attention to detail.  In social situations though yah, have seen how they can almost magically gravitate to saying the "wrong thing."  With a little support one can do much better.

You're bang on/ 

I think the reactions to this post demonstrate exactly the issue. OP is expected to just figure his way out of the woods when other people have a compass and map and he has neither.

OP I really do believe you can develop a system of navigation and develop friendships and more, but you may need help getting there. Just remember neurotypicals have had help all the way along. They didn't get there themselves either. 

[preraph]

Literally everyone has being shunned by other people. In grade school, in middle school, and high school and college and in adult life. A boy once told me I had bo in middle school. You are not unique in this. What you don't do is go trying to talk to them after they reject you. Because as you know from being on here, dating is a hit-and-miss numbers game. More people are going to reject you who that are going to want you. 

And you need to stop approaching women just because they're the prettiest. That is just insane.

[Yosemite]

Why did you go to the party by yourself? Do you have any friends? Have you ever been to a party before? (Not counting family Xmas parties.)

There is one girl there who is the president of the club; she's super nice and friendly to everyone but around me, she's very guarded and closed off and I can tell she doesn't like me too much for reasons I don't understand. I talked about this in a previous thread about how one day, I arrived 20 minutes before the club started and tried being nice to her but she looked annoyed and disgusted with me. Anyways, while I was at the party, I decided that I would go up and try and talk to her again, maybe to give her the benefit of the doubt and also because I want practice talking to girls.

Why did you go talk to that girl when she made it very clear the last time that she doesn’t want to talk to you or be friends with you? Is this the girl that you followed around the room and kept talking to while she ignored you until she had to hide in another room to get away from you? Why would you think that after that that she would want to make small talk with you at a party? She’s probably scared of you at this point and I don’t blame her. 

You seem to think that no one should believe that you’re a creepy weirdo even when you behave exactly like a creepy weirdo. I don’t say that to hurt your feelings, but the truth is that following someone who’s ignoring you until she pretends to leave, and then trying to talk to her again a few weeks later at a party, asking her weird and obtrusive questions at the party, and then leaving the party right after you struck out with her…all of that makes you look extremely weird. She probably thinks that you’re obsessed with her and low key stalking her…and that’s your fault. Again, it’s not my intention hurt your feelings, but you seem to think that your Autism is a get-out-of-jail-free card for your bad behavior. It isn’t. You have decided to not get treatment for your issues…therefore, when you behave the exact same way that a strange weirdo would, you can’t get upset when people think that you’re a strange weirdo. 

You need to understand that you are not entitled to anyone’s conversation or politeness. She has her own life and her own goals and maybe she didn’t want to spend her time at the party helping some strange, older guy learn basic conversational skills. This is real life, not a Hallmark movie. No one’s required to talk to you, be polite to you, be friends with you or anything else. You’re not entitled to practice your conversational skills on anyone outside of someone you pay like a dating coach. So, stop trying to talk to her because she’s been very clear that she doesn’t want to talk to you.

 I just want to be liked and acknowledged by women, i'm tired of feeling like i'm ignored and not even acknowledged and whenever I do put myself out there, I get treated like trash half of the time. 

 

You get treated like trash because it’s the only way to get you to go away. What should someone who doesn’t want to talk to you do? Ignoring you won’t make you leave, hiding in another room doesn’t work…treating you like s*** is the only thing that will make you go away. If you don’t want to be treated rudely, then take the hint the first time and people won’t have to escalate to rude.

I thought things would get better in my twenties, I really did.  I'm a 25 year old man, still a kissless virgin who's never had any success with women and i'll probably still be single at 30. This is a nightmare situation. 

 A very simple solution is to join a dating site for Autistic people. Autistic women are women and you have a much higher chance of being liked/acknowledged/kissed by an Autistic woman. Problem solved. I don’t understand why you won’t even try this.

 I even took a relationship & dating class over the summer which specialized in adults with autism. I am not sure if it was extremely helpful but we mostly practiced talking to one another in 1 on 1 settings.   And then joining clubs.

OK, you took one class, good for you, but you still need more help. If you were trying to learn German and took one class over the summer, would you be shocked that you weren’t fluent? Same thing with your social skills, you need more classes and more treatment.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Yosemite

[schlumpy]

I asked this question of you several posts ago but you deigned to answer. Your handle is GuitarGuy. That would lead me to believe you play guitar. There are lots of guitar clubs that cater to all types of music and more importantly there are lots females who would love to be associated with a musician or just hang out.

Why is this not an option for you?

[Kitty Tantrum]

2 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I really don't know what her problem with me is.  I'm not even trying to hit her up or flirt with her.

She doesn't know that.

She doesn't know that.

She. Does. Not. Know. That.

As someone who is probably on "the spectrum" myself (but generally won't let doctors near me to diagnose ), one of the biggest things I've had to overcome is the COMPLETELY INCORRECT internal assumption that my intentions have any bearing on how people perceive me. They absolutely do NOT; not if your behavior or speech isn't congruent. When you live in a world that is mostly inside your head, it's easy to begin to FEEL as though your inner motives are projected outward when you speak or act, and they are NOT. Not for folks like us, anyway. It doesn't come naturally.

As you can see:

Inwardly: I'm not trying to hit her up or flirt with her. I'm not trying to hit her up or flirt with her...

*walk up to girl*

Outwardly: "Sooooo... you live alone?"

You want to write her off as some kind of snob, because that absolves you of any responsibility to learn and improve. From what you've described, even though you are AWARE of your shortcomings - you don't seem to have an interest in doing anything but continuing to "shoot from the hip" socially -  and then kicking yourself when it doesn't go over smoothly. Fact is, if you don't make a concerted effort to plan and put together the sorts of verbal and nonverbal communications that "normal people" jive with - this will always happen.

Is it fair that it's harder for you? No.

Is it fair that women (and most people) will treat you differently based on your behavior, demeanor, speech, etc. because you have (essentially) a social disability? Not really.

But life ain't fair, and when you're dealt a handicap of any sort, the burden ultimately lies with YOU to navigate that. Especially when it's something nobody else can see and you don't tell them about it upfront.

[Kitty Tantrum]

And BTW, because I see a lot of "aspie incel" guys talking about how "if I was a hot girl it would be so easy because guys don't care and it's so easy for women blah blah BLAH BLAH BLAH."

Yeah, well, I WAS a hot single aspie girl for a hot minute, and I'm here to tell you that NO, it is actually NOT easier for us... unless you mean easier to get taken advantage of. And maybe you THINK you want that, but you DON'T.

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

Or dropping your 80 year old grandma into a game of Call of Duty.

See this is who you let others see, the fun guy!

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

All he did was go home feeling bad and she couldn't care less ultimately,

I have severe anxiety disorder which is pretty well managed these days, but part of that is letting my social group and friends know, and know how to help me when it's bad.

If you do let people know either subtly ( 'I am awkward in social situations' ) or openly ( 'I have Aspergers'- that for people you know well or are going to have to see ) that you have these issues then they don't reach out to help and or accept you with it then @ZA Dater is correct, the person doesn't care and is probably not a very kind or enlightened person. Most of us do all we can to be thoughtful and put people at ease where possible, and yes I'm sure there are people who judge and are obnoxious going about their life, but do you really want to hang out with them?

In my church ( UU ) there's a policy of acceptance and anti-discrimination and open communication ( yes, they also would tell you- kindly- if you were 'bothering' women ) and I'm sure most colleges have similar. Is there a college counsellor and or support group where you are too? 

 

[preraph]

We don't even know if he is on the spectrum.  

[jspice]

3 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I think i'm just going to ignore her completely; I really don't know what her problem with me is.  I'm not even trying to hit her up or flirt with her.  Maybe she's just a stuck up sorority girl, or she's the type of girl who won't even talk to you if she thinks you're ugly. 

I think she's a stuck up sorority chick, that's what I think she is.  She and one of the other girls in charge who also looks and talks at me with disgust and hate.  I bet they wouldn't be so rude to 6 ft tall, good looking Chad. 

Yeah they're pretty girls, whatever...   Many (not all) hot 21 year old girls have terrible personalities because guys will like them anyways regardless of how they are as a person. Iv'e seen women who are complete butt holes; but because they're hot, they can find a boyfriend pretty quickly.  It just goes to show you that if you're hot, you can get away with being rude, mean, and just a terrible person. 

And when you're not that good looking like myself, you see peoples true colors a lot quicker because people arne't putting up a front around you.  

 

 

 

You do realise that this entire post makes you sound “off” and what a typical “incel” would say about women?

I would avoid you too based on this post and asking whether I live alone. 
Since you KNOW why she moved away from you, you do have some self-awareness. 
 

 

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

Or dropping your 80 year old grandma into a game of Call of Duty.

It's true - it can get a bit brutal. It does even for neurotypical folks. Like that guy in the other thread who's GF starting hanging out with other guys at a bar to spite him (and spite him it did). And big guys who shoulder you out of the way. And smart guys who make you look dumb. And the people who position themselves in between you and the other person. And the friends who decide you're not good enough for their friends and "rescue them" from the mistake of screwing you when they're about to. Etc, etc.

"Love is a contact sport."

Things tend to improve a bit in your 30's and 40's I believe. Not completely, but significantly.

Edited February 2, 2020 by mark clemson

[Foxhall]

14 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I asked her whether she lived alone and who here roommates were, my intention was I was just trying to make conversation but it was probably interpreted as creepy on her part and combine that with my overall

As a general rule, avoid personal questions like that,

keep it general - "this coronavirus sounds scary" 

also stop thinking your "creepy"

your as good as anyone else- head high and look world in the eye.-f***k people

[elaine567]

37 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Things tend to improve a bit in your 30's and 40's I believe. Not completely, but significantly.

What improves?
I doubt anything really improves on its own.
GG needs to put in a lot of hard work here to improve his social skills, and bring them up to at least "satisfactory", else the women rejecting him will still be rejecting him when he is 30 40. 50...
Poor social skills are poor social skills whether you are, 20 or 30 or 40 or 80...
There is no pass due to age. One has to fit in to be accepted.

Next time he goes to a party he needs to take a friend with him so he is not on his own. Many woman are naturally suspicious of lone guys
Few of us would fare well in such a cliquey party. Arriving alone is often awkward unless you know the party goers really well. He needs to stop targeting women, especially disinterested and hostile ones.
He needs to get himself comfortable in that club, make friends and then from that secure platform he can start looking around for an interested woman.
He basically entered like a raiding party, got short shrift and had to bow out and leave...
Not a great tactic.

[GuitarGuy7]

So i'm also involved with other groups and organizations, not just the film production club.   I had a busy day today, I went to sports practice and talked to several people there, including women, and asked them how their winter break was and for the most part, all of the guys and girls were pretty friendly and receptive towards me and it was fairly easy to keep conversation going.   I was also playing frisbee and a girl walked up to me and asked how I was doing and I talked to her for a minute but she was on the other team so I coudn't talk to her a lot.  She's the type of girl who's friendly to everyone, so I feel like if I see her again, then she will be nice towards me. 

And then at a super-bowl party with a group of friends, I was cool with everybody and one of the women there was friendly to me and said hello, she didn't look at me with a look of disgust at all when interacting with me.  I know her fairly well already but even from the first day I met her, she was super nice. 

And i'm glad that all of this happened to me today because it makes me feel better knowing that there are women out there who arne't going to be completely mean and rude.  I was getting upset about how I was being treated by this one particular person when the truth is that I shoudn't feel bad about this girl treating me like crap because I know there are women out there who WILL be nice to me and not treat me like i'm a sub-human. 

In the past three years, iv'e talked to a lot of rude women who don't hesitate to act disgusted by me for whatever reason, but iv'e also met and befriended some wonderful women. It's just finding these type of women, while avoiding the others who act cold and disgusted.  And yeah sure, I don't any sort of romantic life yet, but you have to remember I started the game off with several disadvantages that other people don't have to deal with, so I understand it's going to take me longer than most people to get my dating life together. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by GuitarGuy7

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, elaine567 said:

What improves?
I doubt anything really improves on its own.
GG needs to put in a lot of hard work here to improve his social skills, and bring them up to at least "satisfactory", else the women rejecting him will still be rejecting him when he is 30 40. 50...
Poor social skills are poor social skills whether you are, 20 or 30 or 40 or 80...
There is no pass due to age. One has to fit in to be accepted.

Next time he goes to a party he needs to take a friend with him so he is not on his own. Many woman are naturally suspicious of lone guys
Few of us would fare well in such a cliquey party. Arriving alone is often awkward unless you know the party goers really well. He needs to stop targeting women, especially disinterested and hostile ones.
He needs to get himself comfortable in that club, make friends and then from that secure platform he can start looking around for an interested woman.
He basically entered like a raiding party, got short shrift and had to bow out and leave...
Not a great tactic.

All very true but when you think about it which social skills would these be?  The fact he belongs to clubs suggests he has some social skills I get making friends but some people struggle to make friends what if he is one of those which based on his posts seems to be the case?

People miss the fact he even bothered to speak to her, he needs to be applauded for trying, I see many stunning ladies everyday, I don't speak to any of them so the fact he has the courage to do that is commendable.

There are clearly positive attributes he does have he needs to use those more.