I went to a party tonight and I had a really bad experience.

[nospam99]

@ZA. GG needs to improve the social skill of not asking inappropriate questions. I cringed through the internet when he reported asking the girl/woman about her living arrangements. And I'd be surprised if many other LSers didn't cringe as well. It's not on the level of 'wanna phuk?', but still much too personal.

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

People miss the fact he even bothered to speak to her, he needs to be applauded for trying,

NO.
He put himself into a place where rejection was guaranteed.
He got burned when he put his hand in the flame last time and he got burned again when he put his hand back into the flame...
That doesn't need applause surely?
He creeped her out with his questioning too... anyone with good social skills would never have done that.

"That woman doesn't like me, but she IS president of the club."
"Hi, Susie", smile, nod, walk away.

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

NO.
He put himself into a place where rejection was guaranteed.
He got burned when he put his hand in the flame last time and he got burned again when he put his hand back into the flame...
That doesn't need applause surely?
He creeped her out with his questioning too... anyone with good social skills would never have done that.

"That woman doesn't like me, but she IS president of the club."
"Hi, Susie", smile, nod, walk away.

I see it differently. At least he tried which for me is commendable. Chances are she is indeed a snob and actually enjoyed rejecting him. Sure, the question was offside I agree with that but clearly he doesn't have any common ground with any of these people in these clubs so this is causing the issue to begin with, which is why I think people using Meet Up to find dates, doing activities they have no interest in is ultimately pointless. I am not going to go to salsa dancing to find a hot chick when I don't like dancing, to me that's just stupid.

Like you say he needs to find some solid ground to work from but what would that be? It would appear he doesn't have that, again I think he needs confidence but where to acquire that? This Aspie nonsense is in my opinion just that, nonsense. He is very short of confidence and very short of experience so to me that accounts for most of the reason he gets nowhere.

[elaine567]

If you read today''s update he has actually found some common ground with some people, so well done to him.

[gaius]

Communication is a science like any other. You conducted an experiment and it failed. What you did doesn't work, figure out why it didn't and next time try something else that might. 

It took me over a decade of trial and error to develop a style that works. It's still not perfect, but good enough to get me what I want. You're not going to ace it by going to one party.

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, elaine567 said:

What improves?

I was talking about the intensity of the inter-personal competition for mates/dates by males. Men gradually become a little less horny, a little less physical, a little less inconsiderate (some of them anyhow). Some guys give up, others start to care a lot less. More men are taken (e.g. married or in LTRs). So overall the competition at bars etc is a bit less brutal.

Actually GG7's social skills will presumably improve at least marginally over multi-year periods. Will that be enough in his case? I'd guess no as well, he needs sustained focus.

I do think caring less, so he comes across as less "needy" might help him out. So that's one thing that might change on its own.

[GuitarGuy7]

I’m 25 and I can already tell my sex drive has gone down compared to when I was 20 or 22.   I was probably at my peak around that time. 

I think I peaked too early, I should be in my sexual prime when I’m 30 and actually some semblance of a dating life. 

Although I don’t really consider my sex drive going down as a bad thing.  It makes it a little bit easier to not care so much about women which in turn makes me overall happier. 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by GuitarGuy7

[thefooloftheyear]

1 hour ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I’m 25 and I can already tell my sex drive has gone down compared to when I was 20 or 22.   I was probably at my peak around that time. 

I think I peaked too early, I should be in my sexual prime when I’m 30 and actually some semblance of a dating life. 

Although I don’t really consider my sex drive going down as a bad thing.  It makes it a little bit easier to not care so much about women which in turn makes me overall happier. 

 

 

 

Nonsense,. man....You didn't "peak early"...

I have little good advice for you and the others but id just like to relay a small story...

Back in the 80s when I was in HS,(and in college as well) guys like you got absolutely torched on a daily basis....Not from just girls, but the guys would ridicule, shame, tease, etc...Its not like today, where there if far more awareness against bullying and there is far less of it happening...Autism existed but wasn't recognized,...

Well...Fast forward 30 years later and I attend my HS reunion...You know what?   A lot of those guys that were bullied and shunned (WAY  more than you are, btw) many of them showed up there all now appear "normal" brought their wives with them to the event, and seemed to have it all together...I am sure they just "rode it out" , made a life or career for themselves then later on(I am guessing) when most girls lose that stupidity  and superficiality where practically all of them are just chasing the same few better looking and athletic  guys came back around and now these guys(like you) get  their crack....

Only point being, it seems dire now, I get it....I wouldn't try to keep doing something that obviously isn't working...That doesn't mean stop trying...Just focus efforts elsewhere...Get a career going and direction there if you haven't already...Take care of yourself, both body and mind... Stay on track....I absolutely guarantee  that they tables get turned because they always do and I have seen it numerous times...

TFY

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

I’m 25 and I can already tell my sex drive has gone down compared to when I was 20 or 22.   I was probably at my peak around that time. 

I think I peaked too early, I should be in my sexual prime when I’m 30 and actually some semblance of a dating life. 

Although I don’t really consider my sex drive going down as a bad thing.  It makes it a little bit easier to not care so much about women which in turn makes me overall happier. 

 

From my experience libido goes up and down at various times in life and depending on what's going on in your life.

And you do know about masturbation? Sorry if that's a weird question but I lived in the Bible belt where a lot of kids grow up in a severely repressed-information environment.

[vla1120]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:05 AM, GuitarGuy7 said:

No, iv'e not told anybody that i'm an incel.  I mostly post about my dating woes online, I don't go around in real life telling people i'm a virgin or anything. 

The definition of "incel" is much worse that just being a virgin, GG7. Please don't think of yourself as one. While the initial creation of the word may have been innocuous, it has evolved into something perverse. 

I haven't been reading many posts lately in the forums you usually post, but I must say I am pleasantly surprised to see the strides you've made in social situations. You are putting yourself out there and really trying and that's great!

I have a suggestion. It sounds like you're getting along great with the guys. Have you made friends with any of them where you hang out with them independently of your club meetings? If so, maybe you can bring them along next time kind of as a wing man? Maybe they could give you a little nudge when you are overstepping bounds or getting awkward (like asking a girl if she lives alone, etc.) 

Personally, I think you are doing fine on your own (you immediately knew you had said something wrong by the look on her face - that's good.) Now you need to practice asking yourself about the appropriateness of a comment BEFORE it comes out of your mouth.

Keep going. Personally, I am proud of your progress.

 

[normal person]

I suggested you stop all this behavior because it's only a matter of time before someone accuses you of being a "creep," "stalker," or worse... and yet you didn't listen and continued on as you have been. You may have just narrowly escaped by the skin of your teeth this time. You either don't know when people don't want to talk to you, or if you do know, you don't seem to care. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[preraph]

He knew she didn't. He said so in his first post. 

[GuitarGuy7]

At this point, I know she doesn’t like me.  She’s nice and friendly to everyone else but as soon as she talks to me, her facial expression and tone of voice changes. And i I don’t think it’s her personality either, she seems nice and friendly to everyone else.  We had a club meeting today and she was smiling, talking to people, making them feel welcome but as soon as I start talking to her, she’s cold and rude and I can just tell that she doesn’t like me, for whatever reason...

I’ve been starting to ignore her; and if she talks to me, I’m judt going to give her a taste of he own medicine. Plus there’s guys in the club who are friendly and don’t treat me like a piece of trash like she does. 

 

[MsJayne]

I think you're giving way too many F's what other people think of you and it comes across as a bit needy and desperate.  I also think it sounds like a bit of ganging up going on, from the girls. You know it only takes one nasty girl to say, (in that stupid sensationalist voice that girls use when they're about to impart great drama), "Oh my God, that guy just tried to crack on to me", and then make a great big deal of it and turn you into some sort of social no-go zone. Girls can be bitches like that.  All it takes is for you to have the wrong haircut, the wrong type of jeans, or the wrong type of car, or maybe you once breathed on one of these girls when you'd been eating onions and beer ..... who knows..  My suggestion is to completely ignore them, stop trying to be friends with them altogether. You don't have any problem conversing with guys so I'll assume that your awkwardness and discomfort is coming across loud and clear to only girls,  probably fueling their misconceptions about you. Also, you do seem a bit pre-occupied with meeting girls and being a virgin, have you considered going to a professional escort a couple of times? It may help you to overcome the feelings of inadequacy that seem to be plaguing you and if you could make that step you might find that your behaviour changes and hence other people will respond to you differently. 

[Yosemite]

I can't believe that you talked to her again today.

If it's your goal to get kicked out of the club or get a stern talking to, then carry on with what you're doing. She couldn't be any more clear that she doesn't want anything to do with you.

I can't believe that you think that you not speaking to her is going to be "a taste of her own medicine." Actually, she'll be thrilled that you finally got the message and are leaving her alone. I guarantee you that she's counting down the days until the semester is over and she never has to see you at club meetings again.

Does your mom give you any advice at all? You should ask her what she thinks about your behavior with this girl. IIRC you have a sister, ask her what she would've done if some guy kept talking to her after she ignored him and literally kept talking until she had to leave the room to get away from him. Ask her what her reaction would be if that same guy asked her at a party if she lived alone and then the very next day tried to start another conversation with her.

Have you noticed that your sister doesn't bring her girlfriends around you? She doesn't invite them over and if she goes somewhere in public with you none of her friends come along? If so, it's probably because she knows how you'll behave around them and she doesn't want to lose her friendships because of you.

Seems like no one in your life is willing to tell you how serious your situation is and how much you need professional help. You've got a very long road ahead of you.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Yosemite

[nospam99]

@OP. Not that I'd expect this club president to ever talk to you (other than to kick you the hell out of the club or a meeting), but 'a taste of her own medicine' is a social FAIL unless the target is an azzhoel to everyone (exceptions include disses from one's own SO, and then, only if you WANT to break up). Add considering that tactic to the list of the social skills you should improve.

Anecdote that I think I've shared before: I have an Aspie son. After 'trials and tribulations' the school district created a class for about the dozen or so aspie kids they had in district. The kids were 'integrated' i.e. had classes with the NT (neurotypical) kids, too, but had their own resource room where they hung out together. The kids socialized together outside school, too, and the parents got to know each other. There was a time it was my turn to drive three of the kids to a party at one of the other kid's home. So I had three aspies in my car jabbering away at each other. They sounded just like a bunch of NTs. BUT, unlike if they had actually been with NTs, they obviously 'got' each other. The point of this little story of mine is to suggest it's an example of the value add for OP to try to find a supportive social group of people who he can relate to and with in spite of any behavioral problems he might have in social situations.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, nospam99 said:

The point of this little story of mine is to suggest it's an example of the value add for OP to try to find a supportive social group of people who he can relate to and with in spite of any behavioral problems he might have in social situations.

Frankly I think that applies to anyone. However ladies clearly put in very little effort with the OP so he is left to shoulder the entire conversation. I don't believe the OP has any behavioural issues barring a lack of judgement in circumstances and a degree of hopelessness, both all go back to lack of experience.

People with experience get dates, those without it wont ever because nobody is going to give that sort of slack to actually give the inexperienced guy a chance, that's what it boils down to in my opinion.

[preraph]

The OP definitely has behavior issues. He can't take a hint and you can't take no for an answer. Unbelievable that he continues to talk to this person. Stalker-ish.

[The Outlaw]

13 hours ago, GuitarGuy7 said:

At this point, I know she doesn’t like me.  She’s nice and friendly to everyone else but as soon as she talks to me, her facial expression and tone of voice changes. And i I don’t think it’s her personality either, she seems nice and friendly to everyone else.  We had a club meeting today and she was smiling, talking to people, making them feel welcome but as soon as I start talking to her, she’s cold and rude and I can just tell that she doesn’t like me, for whatever reason...

I’ve been starting to ignore her; and if she talks to me, I’m judt going to give her a taste of he own medicine. Plus there’s guys in the club who are friendly and don’t treat me like a piece of trash like she does. 

 

Just leave her be like I suggested earlier and don't even look in her said direction or attempt conversation. Whatever the reason she doesn't like you aside, we're all going to have critics or haters. Plus, should you retaliate it will only make things worse on your end. 

[Allupinnit]

@ZA Dater - nobody is owed a chance in dating.  Nobody is owed anything.  Not even bitterness - there is always someone who's got it worse off than you.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

@ZA Dater - nobody is owed a chance in dating.  Nobody is owed anything.  Not even bitterness - there is always someone who's got it worse off than you.

Then as far as I am concerned ladies are worth being chased by guys either and they must not wonder why so many guys are players. OP has tried, numerous times in fact and what has he got for it: nothing. Yet the problem is all HIS, sorry this doesn't compute to me. Ladies cannot absolve themselves of all blame, its very clear this situation was handled badly.

And no if this forum is to be believed GUYS must given endless chances "oh maybe she is realty sweet, ignore her looks" yet ladies can just reject based on the colour of a shirt.

[Allupinnit]

Everyone's own dating life is up to them - that's the shakes.  Only the guy involved determines whether or not he feels like the woman is worth chasing, just like women decide whether a guy is worth dating.  And vice versa.  Why get mad and call her names when she turns you down?  That's not a "nice guy" thing to do.

I don't see anyone here asking men to give women chances they're not attracted to.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by Allupinnit

[Kitty Tantrum]

I get the impression from a lot of these socially awkward type guys that they think women OWE IT TO THEM to be their "practice." Like - talking to this girl will help me gain social skills... how dare she not want to talk to me when it would help me??? She must be a stuck-up snob treating me bad because she's rotten inside. HMPH.

But, like... do they ever TELL THE GIRL "hey, I'm awkward and vulnerable and I would really benefit from having a female friend to talk to, to learn how to talk to girls"???

NOOOO. They DON'T.

Do they seek out the super awkward and less attractive girls and be like "hey, I'm awkward and you're awkward, let's be awkward together"??

ALSO NOPE.

You went up to this woman looking to extract value from her. Maybe not sexually, but even targeting someone for "conversation practice" without being upfront about it (you know there are people who LIKE to do stuff like that, right? Just usually not pretty, popular girls while in the middle of hosting parties) is presumptuous - and given that she really has NO IDEA what you're about, it would be very easy for her to perceive it as EXACTLY what you say it isn't (just another guy who wants sex from her). Can't blame her at all, really. From what YOU have described.

[normal person]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Then as far as I am concerned ladies are worth being chased by guys either and they must not wonder why so many guys are players. OP has tried, numerous times in fact and what has he got for it: nothing. Yet the problem is all HIS, sorry this doesn't compute to me. Ladies cannot absolve themselves of all blame, its very clear this situation was handled badly.

It doesn't compute to you because you're looking at the paradigm as you'd like it to be and ignoring how it actually is in reality. No one is to "blame," no one owes anyone anything, and no one's entitled to anything, and the world isn't fair. Women don't owe men things. You should look at this instead through the lens of desirability and supply and demand. If you're desirable enough (regardless of gender), people will want to be with you. You'll get to set the price for your attention, affection, etc. Understanding the demand for yourself, assessing your worth, and then trying to get the best partner for yourself (and eschew others) isn't a moral failing, it's basic biology. Don't blame individuals for having preferences, you and OP have them too. Your gripe is with your God and/or science. 

 

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

And no if this forum is to be believed GUYS must given endless chances "oh maybe she is realty sweet, ignore her looks" yet ladies can just reject based on the colour of a shirt.

When people desire you more than you desire them, then you call the shots. The solution isn't to complain about how no one gives you a chance, it's to be the person who gives the chances. You assume this is a just a power dynamic between women and men, it's not. It's about desirability. Plenty of men reject women for equally frivolous reasons, because they know their worth, they know the quality of women they can get otherwise. Women "seem" like the villains more often than not because men's demand for sex is while women (who have to carry a child), are much more selective and demanding of the quality of a man. Undesirable men complain that they can't get any woman, women tend to complain that they can't find a guy they like.  

[GuitarGuy7]

Well unfortunately, I have to see her at least 2 days out of the week because not only is she the president of the club i'm in but she's also a TA in one of my classes i'm in.  That means I have no choice but to stay in contact with her because if I ever need any help with a project, she's the person I have to talk to.   So I have to suck it up and just ignore her; i'm pretty sure she's thinking the same thing about me.