'It's easy for men.

[Woggle]

Nobody really knows what another person goes through or what their life is.

[BettyDraper]

4 hours ago, Woggle said:

I can't site sources but neither can you because nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors in people's homes. There are also millions of homes that didn't take part in some survey. 

I cited several sources. 
 

There are millions of people who do take part in the research and that is how scientists come to conclusions. The research is completed over a period of several years as well which lends more credibility to it.

Edited February 7, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude

[major_merrick]

OK, I'll throw in my apple of discord here....

NO!  ABSOLUTELY NOT!  I do not believe that men have it easier.  I've seen what my husband does for a living, and it would drive me nuts.  There is a reality that in the modern workplace, men get paid more because men are often doing more.  Heavier, harder, longer, and with fewer incentives.  Women tend to get the easy desk work.  Ever noticed how HR at any major workplace is almost ALWAYS female?  Yep.  And if a woman has a physical job, most of the time she isn't expected to perform to the same standards as men.  Ever seen the physical requirements for women in the military?  Lower standards.  So yeah, I believe there's plenty of SEXISM in the workplace, and men are the victims of it.  When women complain they don't get paid equally, I want to ask if they are working equally.  The answer in most cases would be NO.  

I'm a mom of three, and I stay home now.  Yeah, I've got help from my GFs and other women in the house so it isn't quite the same as having to do all the mom stuff.  But I spend most of my day dealing with clothes, diapers, feeding, pumping breast milk, etc...  But still... I get to do things the way I want to do them, work on my projects, and generally have a relaxed pace.  I don't have much in the way of deadlines, and I don't have to put on a "happy face" for boss and coworkers and hide what I'm feeling.  I kind of prefer staying at home to the way life used to be when I was working.   

Meanwhile, my husband is a well-paid project manager.  He and Wife #4 work at the same company.  She mostly does desk work these days.  My husband can be pretty much anywhere.  He can be dealing with production issues, out on a job site supervising installation, doing meetings, pretty much anything that needs to be done.  He comes home tired, and still has community responsibilities.  And then he gets up at night frequently if there's issues with the kids...because once I'm asleep, I'm dead to the world. 

I think there's also a difference in our approach to work.  Men HAVE TO go to work, earn better money, and constantly climb.  They have to do it to earn respect from their friends and family.  In many cases, a woman GETS TO go to work.  She could stay home and tend the kids, take a part time job, or have a career.  So men will get burned out with their job more easily than women, because women are more often doing what they want to do.  Men's money often gets totally spent on paying bills and keeping their partners happy.  Ever notice how many husbands can't make a purchase without saying, "Well, I gotta ask the wife about that."  To me, that sounds like a real recipe for major discontent. 

[sothereiwas]

Statistically, men earn most of the money that supports families - that's not nothing as a good friend says. 

[Els]

25 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Where am I saying "its the same for everyone"??  All you guys are doing is discounting real world reality and accepting the speculative version....How does that make any sense??

People have posted plenty of statistics for you to read, if you are  interested. Yes, these statistics come from real life.

25 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I have 6  nieces and nephews and many of my cousins are also the same age with same age kids....No one ever reported anything tragic, so I don't know what that says, but id like to think that if it was very complicated or "bad" I would have heard about it..

And I am just speculating here, but the mothers here are perhaps just trying to not buck  the narrative of the angry mob...Just a hunch...

And c'mon Els...Are you really prepared to stand behind the statement that a cardiac bypass or brain surgery patient has the same "bad" prognosis as a conventional child birth?  I know you are a smart woman., so really...wtf?

TFY

 Well, it depends on what sort of brain surgery, and what sort of complications exist with the pregnancy. The point is not that they have exactly the same prognosis, but rather the fact that there even has to be a "prognosis" to begin with, which is a term used for "risky things".

[Els]

24 minutes ago, major_merrick said:

  Ever notice how many husbands can't make a purchase without saying, "Well, I gotta ask the wife about that."  To me, that sounds like a real recipe for major discontent. 

If we're talking about buying a house or a very large purchase,  both men and women should talk to their partner first, for obvious reasons. Otherwise, this is pretty ridiculous and I do pity the people in such marriages. H and I both feel free to spend reasonably on personal purchases without having to get the other person to sign off on every purchase.

[kevinjones]

3 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

People have posted plenty of statistics for you to read, if you are  interested. Yes, these statistics come from real life.

 Well, it depends on what sort of brain surgery, and what sort of complications exist with the pregnancy. The point is not that they have exactly the same prognosis, but rather the fact that there even has to be a "prognosis" to begin with, which is a term used for "risky things".

I don't think anyone is saying giving birth isn't risky. I would say I have never heard a woman really complain after giving birth, because the lifelong benefits surpass feeling uncomfortable.  They are more proud, than saying it was "bad" But risky is also  building bridges, mining for coal, drilling for oil, fighting in wars and building high rises. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by kevinjones

[sothereiwas]

2 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

a term used for "risky things".

I can't dispute this. On the other hand, while 800 women will die in childbirth this year, around 5000 men will die in the process of trying to provide resources for their family. Life is all risky all over. We each have to do the best we can. 

[Els]

28 minutes ago, major_merrick said:

There is a reality that in the modern workplace, men get paid more because men are often doing more.  Heavier, harder, longer, and with fewer incentives.  Women tend to get the easy desk work.

Actually, the vast majority of well paying jobs out there ARE desk jobs. I mean, isn't your husband a project manager, lol? That's as desk as it gets.

Btw, I work harder than the others (male) on my team, and I do get paid more.

[sothereiwas]

Just now, Elswyth said:

Actually, the vast majority of well paying jobs out there ARE desk jobs. I mean, isn't your husband a project manager, lol? That's as desk as it gets.

Btw, I work harder than the others (male) on my team, and I do get paid more.

To be fair, a software PM isn't the only type of PM, some of them are pretty hands on deals. We live in a bubble Els

[Els]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

I can't dispute this. On the other hand, while 800 women will die in childbirth this year, around 5000 men will die in the process of trying to provide resources for their family. Life is all risky all over. We each have to do the best we can. 

Exactly. But it's much rarer to hear a woman say that fighting as frontline infantry or spending 12 hours a day mining coal "isn't that bad", and I imagine it would generate quite a bit of ire if anyone did say it.

[BettyDraper]

34 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

Actually, the vast majority of well paying jobs out there ARE desk jobs. I mean, isn't your husband a project manager, lol? That's as desk as it gets.

Btw, I work harder than the others (male) on my team, and I do get paid more.

Desk work isn't always easy either.

Many  professional desk jobs can require a high level of concentration which is taxing.

They also require completion of higher education which is no easy feat. This is why professional desk jobs are well compensated. 

I guess brawn is more important than brains to some people. 

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, BettyDraper said:

Desk work isn't always easy either.

Many  professional desk jobs can require a high level of concentration which is taxing.

They also require completion of higher education which is no easy feat. This is why professional desk jobs are well compensated. 

I guess brawn is more important than brains to some people. 

LOLOL

Tell me more, I'm not sure I get it. Yeah, it makes a person tired. Know what it doesn't do? It doesn't break my ribs, mutilate my fingers, make me cold to the bone, crush my co-workers, maim a few other co-workers, and blow my knees out. I know why I got paid what I got paid last year, and sure, I know the market says I'm worth it. It's still not 1/10th the job my dad had to do for less money. 

He's really nice about it though when I say I'm worn out some evenings. If I were him I'd probably just curl up laughing. 

[Tristian]

For those interested in stats. 10 separate reports, 57 posts removed, 6 reminders, 1 ban.

Thread will remain closed for obvious reasons.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Tristian