'It's easy for men.

[thefooloftheyear]

I find that a lot of women that never had kids just assume all kids are terrors....that's just  another bs story....My own daughter rarely ever cried, always well behaved, etc...Took us about a week to train her to use the toilet and she always slept through the night....And a LOT of kids are like this...I'm not saying now that there aren't any difficult kids, but the thinking that you have to be Zeigfried and Roy to keep a few kids in line is crazy....Yet we see commercials all day long with kids running through the house screaming and breaking stuff....Well....Again...its not always the case.. 

And if you aren't a slob, its not that hard to keep a house...I love housework and cleaning...and where I live its almost easier to do take out than cook.,.

TFY

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BettyDraper]

27 minutes ago, preraph said:

I've never once heard a mother say it's not work and that it's not miserable at times and certainly never heard one say it wasnt exhausting. I heard plenty of men say that though.

Yes and many worthwhile endeavors involve some work and difficulties. Saying that kids are hard work does not negate the joy that they bring when they are wanted by their parents. 

Of course, some of the angriest male members in this thread seem to struggle with logic as well as the nuances of being the primary caregiver of children. 

They clearly haven't spoken to moms who do most of the childcare. This brings me to my thesis that parenting is much easier for men because they just aren't doing most of it. Children bring joy but they also come with downsides. There's nothing untruthful about that. Every path we take in life comes with positives and negatives.

It's fun and games when someone else is doing the heavy lifting. Let blissfully unaware men deal with a colicky baby, a potty training toddler who is also in the negativism phase, a child with behavioral difficulties, or just a typical surly teenager for hours on end day in and day out. They wouldn't last a minute. 🤣 Those ignorant types of males think that changing one diaper or watching their kids for a few hours is parenting. They are also naive enough to believe that their "easy" child represents every kid out there. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by BettyDraper

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I find that a lot of women that never had kids just assume all kids are terrors....that's just  another bs story.

You make a fine point. Mine was a sweetie virtually all the time, and loves to organize stuff, so training to help with cleanup and teaching to not make a mess too much wasn't a big deal. I guess some of that is chance and some is probably training and showing by example. Still had the infamous "found the pack of gum in reach and vomited like a buzzard" event and a few others but overall, meh. Good kid.

A house with 2+ holy terrors wouldn't be a lot of fun, but as you note, I don't believe that's typical. 

[preraph]

There's not a toddler or baby in the history of the world who was ever anything except exhausting.

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

There's not a toddler or baby in the history of the world who was ever anything except exhausting.

Maybe different people have different energy levels and stamina then? 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, BettyDraper said:

I'm not sure why some men need so much praise for helping to raise their families and doing household chores. 

 

Acknowledging that there are a great many men who do their share when raising children is not "giving praise".   Rather, it's about avoiding broad generalisations.    I'm mainly responding because your posts are the kind of radical feminism which give we moderate feminists a bad name.    And yes, you've ventured seriously into the territory where #manhaters dwell.  

 

[Woggle]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Acknowledging that there are a great many men who do their share when raising children is not "giving praise".   Rather, it's about avoiding broad generalisations.    I'm mainly responding because your posts are the kind of radical feminism which give we moderate feminists a bad name.    And yes, you've ventured seriously into the territory where #manhaters dwell.  

 

If all feminists thought like this it wouldn't be such a dirty word to a lot of men. I really do appreciate you having our back.

[Foxhall]

came up in conversation recently would I be happy to be a house husband, 

lol think Id be open to that,

the woman is a career woman, let her go out and enjoy career,

Id be happy to tip away, bit of part time work and mind two kids.

[basil67]

21 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

You make a fine point. Mine was a sweetie virtually all the time, and loves to organize stuff, so training to help with cleanup and teaching to not make a mess too much wasn't a big deal. I guess some of that is chance and some is probably training and showing by example. Still had the infamous "found the pack of gum in reach and vomited like a buzzard" event and a few others but overall, meh. Good kid.

A house with 2+ holy terrors wouldn't be a lot of fun, but as you note, I don't believe that's typical. 

I've never had to raise my voice with my now 20yo - such an easy kid to raise.  

[preraph]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

Maybe different people have different energy levels and stamina then? 

Giving birth gave my friend diabetes and she had to have an emergency C-section so she was sore for a year and was getting no help from her husband at all taking care of the baby. meanwhile he's pressuring her for sex and surly because she still doesn't feel up to it because that's how long it took her to get through her major surgery. 

Her stamina was fine until she gave birth. And no sooner had she gotten that back to normal then she put her back completely out from lifting the child. 

 

but yeah it would be great if you could just maintain the stamina you had before you gave birth.

[BettyDraper]

11 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Acknowledging that there are a great many men who do their share when raising children is not "giving praise".   Rather, it's about avoiding broad generalisations.    I'm mainly responding because your posts are the kind of radical feminism which give we moderate feminists a bad name.    And yes, you've ventured seriously into the territory where #manhaters dwell.  

 

There is no broad generalization in facts which can be proven. 

I am the furthest from a radfem that you can be. Happy housewives who gladly look after their husbands are not radfems. Good try though. 

I'm not sure why you need to seek approval from men online but thanks for the sisterhood. Being a pick me is the opposite of feminism. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by BettyDraper

[basil67]

31 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

I am the furthest from a radfem that you can be.

I'm not sure why you need to seek approval from men online but thanks for the sisterhood. 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

I'm not writing what I do to seek approval from men, I'm writing what I do because I believe in being fair.   And as a moderate feminist, I get pissed at getting blamed for the words of radical feminists.

Edited February 6, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

6 minutes ago, preraph said:

Giving birth gave my friend diabetes and she had to have an emergency C-section so she was sore for a year and was getting no help from her husband at all taking care of the baby. meanwhile he's pressuring her for sex and surly because she still doesn't feel up to it because that's how long it took her to get through her major surgery. 

My son was bottle fed and I remember my husband doing the 11pm feeding shift so that I could get some solid sleep.   Hubby is now late 50's.  The fact that one man is a no-hoper doesn't mean that all men are the same

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by basil67

[thefooloftheyear]

6 minutes ago, preraph said:

Giving birth gave my friend diabetes and she had to have an emergency C-section so she was sore for a year and was getting no help from her husband at all taking care of the baby. meanwhile he's pressuring her for sex and surly because she still doesn't feel up to it because that's how long it took her to get through her major surgery. 

Her stamina was fine until she gave birth. And no sooner had she gotten that back to normal then she put her back completely out from lifting the child. 

 

but yeah it would be great if you could just maintain the stamina you had before you gave birth.

And there are guys that died from over work trying to feed their families....

Its a sacrifice for ALL involved...Are there POS guys out there?  Absolutely...There are also women who plant their asses at home while husbands work like madmen, neglect their kids, drink and get stoned..fck the gardener,  and leave the house a shambles...

If this thread is to validate that there are shytty people in this world, we could have all saved a lot of typing and reading...

TFY

[BettyDraper]

7 minutes ago, preraph said:

Giving birth gave my friend diabetes and she had to have an emergency C-section so she was sore for a year and was getting no help from her husband at all taking care of the baby. meanwhile he's pressuring her for sex and surly because she still doesn't feel up to it because that's how long it took her to get through her major surgery. 

Her stamina was fine until she gave birth. And no sooner had she gotten that back to normal then she put her back completely out from lifting the child. 

 

but yeah it would be great if you could just maintain the stamina you had before you gave birth.

I have heard of many husbands getting angry about the lack of sex soon after a baby comes.

Those husbands have no appreciation or knowledge for what their wives bodies have been through. 

I've also read that husbands are most likely to cheat while their wives are pregnant and soon after birth. I'm not sure how true this is. 

[BettyDraper]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

My son was bottle fed and I remember my husband doing the 11pm feeding shift so that I could get some solid sleep.   Hubby is now late 50's.  The fact that one man is a no-hoper doesn't mean that all men are the same

 

It doesn't matter what your husband did when we are speaking of statistical information which has been proven many times over. 

"Anecdotal evidence is not data" is not a difficult concept to grasp yet many do not understand it. 

Also, nobody has said that all men are the same. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by BettyDraper

[basil67]

5 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

we are speaking of statistical information which has been proven many times over. 

Also, nobody has said that all men are the same. 

Yet when I acknowledge the men who are different to the stats, you mock them with asking if they need praise.  

Edited February 6, 2020 by basil67

[LivingWaterPlease]

6 hours ago, BettyDraper said:

If you would like to share, then I would be glad to read your long post. 

OK, well, I've thought of how to post this in the most concise yet thorough post possible. The marriage failed because both he and I were selfish, prideful, immature, wounded (childhood wounds) and not good with conflict resolution.The ways that manifested are, to me, irrelevant at this point. What is important for me is that I've experienced a lot of healing and personal growth, by God's grace.

[sothereiwas]

1 hour ago, BettyDraper said:

statistical information

Seems like a show me moment. Which stats are you referring to?

[Blind-Sided]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yet when I acknowledge the men who are different to the stats, you mock them with asking if they need praise.  

And that's the key to this.

OP... I was going to respond to your last quote of mine... but after reading through this... I realize that anything opposite of your feelings is ether wrong, anecdotal, or is just dismissed.  You are not interested in an actual debate, you just want to be right.  Guess what... you are not right in any way. And basil called you out on that... and you bashed her too.

So... absolutely... Men are evil, and have it WAY easier then women in a marriage with kids.

Now, excuse me... I have to get my two girls up, and ready for school... and pack their lunches.  Because there mother (Who is perfect in every way, and has it harder than me) has basically abandoned them... so someone has to make sure they are well adjusted.  (did you feel the sarcasm there?)

Edited February 6, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[kevinjones]

Ok.. Let's assume women do more of the "child work".  

Tell me a more rewarding job?  I do not know what your career is, but millions of women are servers, work at Walmart, some boring office job etc. For that you trade all of your time for a paycheck. And you are easily replaceable at anytime.  You do not get any love. You will never be a mom. You are missing out on one of the most amazing human experiences. 

I am more traditional, and my ex wife definitely did more of the "child work". I do not think when she is on her death bed she will say "oh wow, I wish I never had those experiences! I wish I worked more to buy a fancier purse". And when the child is a little older, the father typically does more. it naturally flows.  

Nobody cares about some weird stats that make it seem like women have it sooooooooo hard these days, with all the modern advancements (disposable diapers, microwaves, clean living environments) to raise a baby or two.  It honestly sounds a bit spoiled. 

 

 

 

 

[Crazelnut]

Why are we debating this? Multiple studies have shown that working women do more of the work wrt raising children and running a household, but also carry more of the mental load (keeping track of the appointments, remembering family milestones, making sure someone planned meals, coordinating with the housecleaners, etc.). Anecdotes don't really matter. Nor does the fact that men doing physical work in dangerous workplaces die in workplace accidents. Sheesh.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Crazelnut

[Tamfana]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:08 PM, BettyDraper said:

Is it "man hating" to believe that women bear the brunt of the responsibilities of child rearing and housework? 

No, it's not "man hating" or hating of any kind and the reason's in the articles you posted.  It could be changing.  I believe that. But in my generation, late Boomer/early GenX, it was extremely common for the mom to do the vast majority of home and child related work.  I was a SAHM until my youngest went to kindergarten and my husband didn't do any tasks after he got home from work at any point. That's how we set it up.  Very traditional.  

Edited February 6, 2020 by Tamfana

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, kevinjones said:

Ok.. Let's assume women do more of the "child work".  

Tell me a more rewarding job?  I do not know what your career is, but millions of women are servers, work at Walmart, some boring office job etc. For that you trade all of your time for a paycheck. And you are easily replaceable at anytime.  You do not get any love. You will never be a mom. You are missing out on one of the most amazing human experiences. 

 

You know Kevin, I don't have children and I always looked at my friends who were raising their young ones as being tired, running around all day chasing babies, comforting them when screaming their heads off as nuts.  But now I see that one precious moment of something those little ones did or said  in that day made it all worth it.

[Tamfana]

Of course we do.  I love my kids and always did.  I loved being a SAHM when they were little, but yeah it was work, just like my husband's job was work. My work days were just longer than his and sure there were times of exhaustion or frazzled craziness.  I think some people are assuming there's a whine or resentment to acknowledging that something was work.  No, no resentment or whining.  

This thread actually brought back so many memories of the crazy and exhausting episodes that happened.  There's no bitterness about men or kids even though the "work" part was imbalanced in my case. Thank heavens my husband and I had the same sense of humor.  One night our firstborn was vomiting like a firehose for so long we eventually just decided to measure how far she was able to projectile vomit.  😂 Wouldn't have missed any of it for the world.