Am I overreacting - is he cheating?

[rainfall]

My partner and I have been together for almost 20 years. Recently he started going out drinking with a bunch of people from work. Now I’d be fine if this was 1-2 nights a week. However this is usually 4 nights a week and he’s out from 8-3. I don’t have the option to go because I wake up at 5 for work. 
 

one of the people that goes is let’s just say not the classiest if women. I know she wants my man, and while I know he would never touch her it still drives me crazy knowing he’s hanging out with that person. 
 

He gets home from work at 6 and by the time he showed and eats, he’s getting ready to go out. I miss seeing him and wish we could at least have a day or two together. I love my alone time and my time with friends, but I also would kinda like to see the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with. 
 

should I say anything or let it go? 

[basil67]

It doesn't make sense rainfall.   If he gets home at 6pm, he works a regular hour job.  So how can he be up and ready for work if he's been out till 3am on the booze?  And who are these workmates who can all pull the same act on a regular basis?   

Do you know for sure that he is where he says he is?   

[rainfall]

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It doesn't make sense rainfall.   If he gets home at 6pm, he works a regular hour job.  So how can he be up and ready for work if he's been out till 3am on the booze?  And who are these workmates who can all pull the same act on a regular basis?   

Do you know for sure that he is where he says he is?   

He gets to work at 9 and he works with a lot of younger people. (He’s a general manager somewhere). I’ve gone a few times and he’s been there. I have a good friend whose gone a few times (when I wasn’t there) and he was there. So I just don’t see why he’s going out all the time now. 

[schlumpy]

Sounds like he's pretty eager to get away from you and looking forward to his time with his younger, hip friends. He might be re-living a part of his life that should be in the past when he committed to you. You didn't mention children and that will make a difference in how you approach this problem.

You could sit around and hoping he burns out and remembers why he got with you. There is a reason most of us leave that life style.

An alternate action would be to start monitoring him by reading phone messages, having a friend of yours but unknown to him, drop by at his hangout to see what's going on, consider buying some voice activated recorders you can hide in his car and find out who is talking to on the phone. Lots of good spy gadgets today that are lots of fun to play with. Much cheaper then a Private Investigator. You do have to aware of what the laws are where you live so you don't get in any legal problems. I suggest that if you use VARs that it jus be part of an information gathering exercise and not with the purpose of confrontation. Never reveal the sources of whatever information you gather. 

You could have a talk with him about how unhappy you are with his evening excursions and see if he responds to that. Ask for marriage counseling. You might want to go yourself individually if he refuses which would not be a good sign.

Reciprocity can be a good tactic but can also backfire depending on his level of detachment from the relationship. He is stretching what you thought were firm relationship boundaries without getting your approval. The rules have changed so why can't you take advantage of them? He's out two nights a week then pick out two days yourself. Go for a weekend trip without him. He can complain but what basis will he argue from. This will be difficult with children but that will be his problem to solve just as his behavior is creating a problem for you.

Remember though that reciprocity can easily escalate a situation in the wrong direction so you have to evaluate the situation carefully before implementing it. It is an effective way to get the message across.

Good luck and don't be afraid to take whatever reasonable action you deem necessary to save your relationship. It's not something to be ashamed of.

 

[Blind-Sided]

Nope, you aren't over reacting.  Regardless of what you are feeling... it's just not a good idea to go out drinking 4 nights a week.  You have been together for 20 years... you have the absolut right to give your opinion, and ask him to not go out so much. 

[d0nnivain]

Staying out until 3 a,m regularly is a problem -- either with alcohol or your marriage.   You need to talk to him about this behavior.  If he's a manager & they are his subordinates the risk of official blow back also heightens.   

Ask him some open Qs like wat is the allure of all this time with them?  Ask about his tiredness & lack of sleep.  Ask if he's avoiding you for some reason.  ask if  he's trying to relive his youth.  

Something is driving this.  

[Fletch Lives]

It sounds like your man has a new hobby. 3 nights a week is not enough time with him? And he's in a group so yeah, he's not going to cheat.

[d0nnivain]

1 minute ago, Fletch Lives said:

It sounds like your man has a new hobby. 3 nights a week is not enough time with him? And he's in a group so yeah, he's not going to cheat.

Drinking until closing time at a bar 3 nights per week is not a new hobby.  It's an addiction.  When somebody chooses to spend more nights per week (4) away from their marriage that is a problem.  He's constructively abandoning her.  Doesn't matter if it's for another person, a substance, or a hobby.  He's choosing things other then his marriage & it's having a destructive effect on that marriage.  

[Fletch Lives]

2 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Drinking until closing time at a bar 3 nights per week is not a new hobby.  It's an addiction.  When somebody chooses to spend more nights per week (4) away from their marriage that is a problem.  He's constructively abandoning her.  Doesn't matter if it's for another person, a substance, or a hobby.  He's choosing things other then his marriage & it's having a destructive effect on that marriage.  

Really? How many days a week does a couple need to see each other in a good relationship?

[d0nnivain]

In a dating relationship 3-4 days per week is probably fine.  In a 20 year MARRIAGE they need to see each other daily, not be out at a bar until 3 a.m. with co-workers 4 nights per week.  I would tell her to simmer down if he went out every night after work for 1-2 hours but was home with her by 7 - 8 p.m.  But to come home, shower, change, eat & then run back out to be with co-workers until the wee hours 4 nights per week something is really off.  

[Fletch Lives]

It might surprise you to know that in some good marriages, the couple live apart and see each other once a week on date night.

That said, it's up to the couple on how much time they want to spend together. So, if this woman is unhappy, she should have a talk with him.

But this is a minor issue. Some couples have serious problems.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Fletch Lives

[elaine567]

Your relationship is over. He doesn't want to spend time with you.
Get your ducks in a row, be prepared for him leaving. I guess with the woman he would NEVER cheat on you with...  but it could be any number of women he meets on these nights out.
OR his problem is alcohol, he will likely stay but your relationship is still over. If it was alcohol he would probably be drinking at home too.

[d0nnivain]

5 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said:

It might surprise you to know that in some good marriages, the couple live apart and see each other once a week on date night.

That said, it's up to the couple on how much time they want to spend together. So, if this woman is unhappy, she should have a talk with him.

But this is a minor issue. Some couples have serious problems.

This is not a minor issue.  It's rocking the foundation of her marriage. 

If they agreed to spend time apart that would be one thing.  He's abandoned her for co-workers, an OW or alcohol, doesn't really matter which. 

She does need to talk to him. 

 

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Your relationship is over. He doesn't want to spend time with you.
Get your ducks in a row, be prepared for him leaving. I guess with the woman he would NEVER cheat on you with...  but it could be any number of women he meets on these nights out.
OR his problem is alcohol, he will likely stay but your relationship is still over. If it was alcohol he would probably be drinking at home too.

I don't know that the marriage is over.  It's taking a beating but if they talk & he acknowledges the problems then takes steps to correct them, this can be overcome.  Without any course correct it is probably on the rocks though.  

[Fletch Lives]

I wish some people would not make a mountain out of a molehill.

[Crazelnut]

Have you actually TALKED TO HIM and told him that you don't like it? Other woman or not, he's being a crappy husband.

[Ellener]

Ask him to do something with you in the evenings instead? Maybe you two fell into a rut with you getting up so early, what were you doing before he decided to go drinking? 

[rainfall]

15 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Staying out until 3 a,m regularly is a problem -- either with alcohol or your marriage.   You need to talk to him about this behavior.  If he's a manager & they are his subordinates the risk of official blow back also heightens.   

Ask him some open Qs like wat is the allure of all this time with them?  Ask about his tiredness & lack of sleep.  Ask if he's avoiding you for some reason.  ask if  he's trying to relive his youth.  

Something is driving this.  

I know he’s super stressed about his job. (He hates it). He’s stressed about money and he got annoyed awhile back when I said I’d be fine paying for more to take some pressure off him. Most of our relationship he made way more and now it’s the opposite. I wouldn’t care if this was 1 or 2 nights a week. But I think More is not good for his health, his finances, our relationship, and his job. 
 

I’ve gone a couple times when I had the next day off (rare) and while it was fun it’s not that much fun. Especially like last night he was still awake when I got up for work. Our dogs did get me up earlier than normal, but still I’m worried about what this is doing to his health: 

14 hours ago, Crazelnut said:

Have you actually TALKED TO HIM and told him that you don't like it? Other woman or not, he's being a crappy husband.

Yes and his response is I don’t see why I can’t spend time with my friends. He can... I just don’t see why he has to risk his health, his life (bc I know he’s had a few too many some nights when he’s driven home), our future, all for acting like he’s in his 20s again. 

13 hours ago, Ellener said:

Ask him to do something with you in the evenings instead? Maybe you two fell into a rut with you getting up so early, what were you doing before he decided to go drinking? 

I used to only have to get up early 3 days a week so we would have Game nights with friends or watch a movie, go to dinner, or just talk. Now I’m getting up early 5 days a week and it’s part of the problem I think. But I have my dream job. I was miserable before I moved into this new role and now I love my job (most days). Although the stress of this is making me miss work. I’ve wasted 3 of my 12 floater holidays this week alone. I won’t get anymore until April. True I was sick yesterday and tomorrow everything I had scheduled was canceled so it was Easy to justify it. But I have things I need to do that I usually can’t because I never have weeks like this. 

[mark clemson]

I like the suggestion to have a friend he doesn't know check in on them every so often. Just be sure to keep it on the down low - but IF he ever finds out somehow, then just say you were worried and stressed due to drunkenness at such late hours. (I'm sure he knows drunk people can make stupid mistakes.)

Your friend can just pop in at 11 or something have a drink or 2, observe from a distance and leave.

IF it's all just innocent, great. IF it's something more, well, then you'll know about it...

As a spouse, I generally feel you have the right to set boundaries you feel are appropriate in your relationship. It definitely sounds like yours are being crossed. That said, some people just need or expect more freedom than others. You're married so, even if there's nothing untoward going on, if he's wrecking his health with drinking and sleeplessness, that affects YOU too. So it warrants some discussion. Moderation in all things...

Edited February 7, 2020 by mark clemson
typo

[Els]

Going out drinking til 3am FOUR nights a week??? Jesus christ, that's frat boy behaviour, not at all something that a grown man who's married should be doing.

I don't know what the underlying issue is - alcoholism? infidelity? trying to get away from you? - but whatever it is, it's not good.

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, rainfall said:

I know he’s super stressed about his job. (He hates it). He’s stressed about money and he got annoyed awhile back when I said I’d be fine paying for more to take some pressure off him. Most of our relationship he made way more and now it’s the opposite

 

4 hours ago, rainfall said:

I have my dream job.

Many men hate it if their wife has a better and higher paid job than they do.
He is upset about the change of dynamic and he is punishing you.
He is no longer the main breadwinner, you are.
Hr has a crappy job he hates, you love your job. 
You are a success, he is a failure in his mind.
You are taking life seriously, he thus rebels.
He resents you.
He has got to middle age with little to show for it, you have surpassed him, he won't like that, so he is acting out.
Reliving his youth with his young co workers, self medicating with alcohol, upsetting his Mommy(you) in the process.
He is a prime candidate for an affair too.

 

[2BGoodAgain]

1) every couple have diff needs. if yours aren't being met, then something is wrong. in terms of, you should voice your mind.

2) hello mid life crisis.  reliving his youth, etc... it can be exciting to be part of it again, and perhaps the younger women doesn't not help either.. it can be fun.

3) the problem with this kind of fun ... is that it escalates, b/c he's going by what this group makes him feel... and that can lead to certan situations, especially when alcohol is involved. how many times have we heard... we were drunk and things happened... etc.. whether consensual or not, and in most cases, not our finest hour...

4) i'm not saying he doesn't want to spend time with you, but if you look at his actions.. .yeah, it says i rather be with the younger crowd. definitely needs to be addressed.

5) you aren't overreacting. instead of spending those precious hours with you, he spends it with them. let me rephase, what he COULD be spending time with you, he rather spend all of it, with them. Perhaps a compromise? instead of 4 nights with them...1-2 nights a week?

6) protect yourself, protect your relationship, don't be passive and then say suddenly... what, you slept with her??? and be all surprised. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but i recall a pastor who'd double check and sometimes be there when his accountant for his church would count the tithes and offerings and people asked him, if he didn't trust his accountant... and he replied... i trust him, but i also love him enough to be there so he doesn't get tempted and lose his job and respect from his community and his place... so love your partner enough, to protect him from possible harm to the relationship. I'm not saying be a stalker or try to control him.. he's an adult who can make adult choices, but you should guide him when you can... or let him see things that he may not see or want to see, of his current path that he's walking on... then let him make his choices... like an adult... as you will too.

as partners... we love each other enough to think long term with them, even if it's uncomfortable for us... b/c that's just how much you love the other.

Edited February 7, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[rainfall]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

 

Many men hate it if their wife has a better and higher paid job than they do.
He is upset about the change of dynamic and he is punishing you.
He is no longer the main breadwinner, you are.
Hr has a crappy job he hates, you love your job. 
You are a success, he is a failure in his mind.
You are taking life seriously, he thus rebels.
He resents you.
He has got to middle age with little to show for it, you have surpassed him, he won't like that, so he is acting out.
Reliving his youth with his young co workers, self medicating with alcohol, upsetting his Mommy(you) in the process.
He is a prime candidate for an affair too.

 

I’ve made more than him for 3 years. This behavior just started a couple months ago. I think if it was that it would have started when I made more. 

1 hour ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

1) every couple have diff needs. if yours aren't being met, then something is wrong. in terms of, you should voice your mind.

2) hello mid life crisis.  reliving his youth, etc... it can be exciting to be part of it again, and perhaps the younger women doesn't not help either.. it can be fun.

3) the problem with this kind of fun ... is that it escalates, b/c he's going by what this group makes him feel... and that can lead to certan situations, especially when alcohol is involved. how many times have we heard... we were drunk and things happened... etc.. whether consensual or not, and in most cases, not our finest hour...

4) i'm not saying he doesn't want to spend time with you, but if you look at his actions.. .yeah, it says i rather be with the younger crowd. definitely needs to be addressed.

5) you aren't overreacting. instead of spending those precious hours with you, he spends it with them. let me rephase, what he COULD be spending time with you, he rather spend all of it, with them. Perhaps a compromise? instead of 4 nights with them...1-2 nights a week?

6) protect yourself, protect your relationship, don't be passive and then say suddenly... what, you slept with her??? and be all surprised. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but i recall a pastor who'd double check and sometimes be there when his accountant for his church would count the tithes and offerings and people asked him, if he didn't trust his accountant... and he replied... i trust him, but i also love him enough to be there so he doesn't get tempted and lose his job and respect from his community and his place... so love your partner enough, to protect him from possible harm to the relationship. I'm not saying be a stalker or try to control him.. he's an adult who can make adult choices, but you should guide him when you can... or let him see things that he may not see or want to see, of his current path that he's walking on... then let him make his choices... like an adult... as you will too.

as partners... we love each other enough to think long term with them, even if it's uncomfortable for us... b/c that's just how much you love the other.

I definitely think he’s having a midlife crisis. I really don’t care what he does for a living as long as he does something. Money means absolutely nothing to me, and I just want him to do something that he’s happy with. 
 

We kinda sorta discussed having one full day that we are both off just for the two of us, and if I can go out I’ll go on occasion so I don’t feel so left out. I’m still not happy with him going out 4 nights a week. That’s a topic for another day, but at least there’s some progress on me feeling so neglected. I know all of the people he’s going out with. One is a good friend of mine who’s fiancé just dumped her. She would let me know if anything happens. Although she’s also busy picking up random guys every night and I’m not going to ask someone to spy on him. I trust him 100% that he wouldn’t cheat. 
 

i just don’t like what this is doing to his health, the stress of finances for him, he’s overslept and missed work once (thankfully I went home sick from work and woke him up... 3 hours late but still). 
 

i would be fine with 2 nights a week but I just don’t see the need to go out drinking til 2 or later 4 nights a week. He didn’t even do this when we first started dating so I do think this is a kinda mid life crisis. 

[S2B]

He’s worried he’s not making enough money yet he spends money four days a week to drink at a bar?

doesn’t that sound backwards?

looks like his thinking isn’t clear.

you have some serious issues to discuss with him! Going out drinking one day a week is fine but FOUR? That looks like a problem.

would he agree to go one day a week?

he’s spending money by going out. He’s not taking special care of your relationship!

this is multiple problems he’s creating! Has he looked for a new job since he’s so unhappy with that job?

[rainfall]

3 hours ago, S2B said:

He’s worried he’s not making enough money yet he spends money four days a week to drink at a bar?

doesn’t that sound backwards?

looks like his thinking isn’t clear.

you have some serious issues to discuss with him! Going out drinking one day a week is fine but FOUR? That looks like a problem.

would he agree to go one day a week?

he’s spending money by going out. He’s not taking special care of your relationship!

this is multiple problems he’s creating! Has he looked for a new job since he’s so unhappy with that job?

I agree 100% and whats funny he talks how he shouldn't be spending as much money going out. I really don't get it at all. He is going to see his best friend this weekend ( it is his best friend's birthday). I'll talk with him more when he gets back. I am not going to make him be in a bad mood when he has been excited for this trip for months. I know him and talking with him about it today before he leaves town would not work out. This will give me time to think of what exactly I want to say. I don't think it is good for his health, finances , or our relationship for him to be going out as much as he has been.

 

I know I spend way more than I should on my obsessions , but I work a couple side jobs when I have extra time to make sure I am not spending money I don't have. If my credit card bill isn't paid in full every month  I cut back on things until I pay it off. So far though there has only been one month I messed up on. His spending at the bar hasn't cut into our financial situation. It is just causing him stress because he can't save for anything and can't buy himself anything that he wants.

 

 

[rainfall]

Now some of you guys have me paranoid he’s cheating on me. I’ve spend this entire week end thinking he’s not really with his bf and trying to find ways to see if he’s lying. I’m lazy though and driving 3 hours to go see if he’s really at his friends house really didn’t sound like a fun way to spend my day off. 
 

I don’t want to lose him over this, and I know if I accuse him of cheating with no proof it will be bad. All I have now is my paranoia and little things that could all add up to him cheating or could be easily explained. 
 

Hopefully he’ll be home before I go to sleep tonight, but it’s already almost late enough to where if he leaves now I’ll be wanting to go to bed before he gets home with the 3 plus hour drive he has. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by rainfall