Am I overreacting - is he cheating?

[rainfall]

Nope not ok at all.  he’s not going out as much. We are spend Time together every night, but I still just have a gut feeling he’s cheating. I’m looking into a voice recorder I found. I need to read a few more reviews and see if I can have it shipped to a friends house. 
 

All I have is circumstantial crap that if I’m wrong I’ll lose him forever, Or if I’m right he’ll deny it and have an excuse for everything. I need something 100% and the pi feel through because she couldn’t work with what I needed.

 

plus side I’ve lost 11 pounds... although I’m already skinny so that might not be a plus. But I’m sleeping like 2-3 hours a night. Used more pto this past month then I did all last year. I hate this. I deserve to know if he’s cheating on me and this isn’t fair. 

[LivingWaterPlease]

Well, I'm glad you've gone ahead and gotten a voice recorder.  You need to settle this in your mind so you can be at peace.

[rainfall]

27 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Well, I'm glad you've gone ahead and gotten a voice recorder.  You need to settle this in your mind so you can be at peace.

It’ll be here next week. My friend agreed i can ship it to her place. She just got cheated on so she’s supporting me 109%. A little scary sometimes tbh....

[rainfall]

Assuming I don’t find anything how do I start to trust him again? Everything I’ve found is circumstantial and he could make up stories for it if it is something or if it isn’t get mad because I snooped. If the recorder shows nothing after a few weeks and the pi gets nothing, I’m going to have to try to trust him again. 
 

how can I do this when I can’t even talk to him about my concerns. If I find something concrete it’s over, but I don’t want to throw this away on circumstantial stuff that could all be in my head. But at the same time I don’t want to stay with a cheater. 
 

[elaine567]

17 hours ago, rainfall said:

It’ll be here next week. My friend agreed i can ship it to her place. She just got cheated on so she’s supporting me 109%. A little scary sometimes tbh....

Is this the friend that goes out drinking with him too and who is single and who just split up with her bf?
I am sorry but she is actually #1 on my list of potential OWs.
Yes the "trampy" one with the crush is up there too but sometimes affairs are more subtle and sneaky than just grabbing the first "up for it" woman around.
The wife's best friend is quite common. He confides in her about his marriage, she tries to help, she tells him about her problems,  they get closer and before they know it they are in an affair...

[rainfall]

7 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Is this the friend that goes out drinking with him too and who is single and who just split up with her bf?
I am sorry but she is actually #1 on my list of potential OWs.
Yes the "trampy" one with the crush is up there too but sometimes affairs are more subtle and sneaky than just grabbing the first "up for it" woman around.
The wife's best friend is quite common. He confides in her about his marriage, she tries to help, she tells him about her problems,  they get closer and before they know it they are in an affair...

Nope. That friend is the one who did the cheating. This is a different one. She doesn’t drink, go out, and she is 100% trustworthy. I don’t think the other friend would do anything. With all my snooping I’ve seen nothing to show anything between those two. I’ve found enough circumstantial evidence about the trampy one. I just  need something concrete and the pi and recorder will give me that. 
 

He hardly even talks to my friend. One of his best friends is actually into her so I don’t think he would do anything with her. I’ll find out soon I guess, waiting on the pi to email me back if my dates and times work and then my recorder. 

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, rainfall said:

Assuming I don’t find anything how do I start to trust him again? 

You do that by taking responsibility for your actions. You are doing this to give yourself an answer. Once you have that answer you will take whatever action you deem appropriate. If your husband is innocent of infidelity I would expect that you would make it up to him without telling him what you did. That information was for your safety so that you were not caught unaware. If it is exculpatory, then the relief it will provide should make you feel closer. Otherwise, why do it?

You could sit home at night and learn to hate him with much less effort.

[rainfall]

4 hours ago, schlumpy said:

You do that by taking responsibility for your actions. You are doing this to give yourself an answer. Once you have that answer you will take whatever action you deem appropriate. If your husband is innocent of infidelity I would expect that you would make it up to him without telling him what you did. That information was for your safety so that you were not caught unaware. If it is exculpatory, then the relief it will provide should make you feel closer. Otherwise, why do it?

You could sit home at night and learn to hate him with much less effort.

If he’s innocent I still want an explanation for all the sketchy stuff I’ve found. I can’t get it though because I’d have to admit I snooped. But if he is innocent I’ll have to learn to live with this I guess. He’s not going out as much. It’s only been two times in 2 weeks. 
 

part of me thinks he’s cheating and part of my things he’s the most clueless person ever and doesn’t realize what he’s doing to me by his sketchy stuff. 

[SummerDreams]

5 hours ago, rainfall said:

I can’t even talk to him about my concerns

This is the key problem you have. Even if he is the most innocent person in the world, the fact that a woman can't express her concerns to her husband is something that needs to be fixed and fast. Maybe this is the reason you are afraid all the time that you will lose him; if you don't communicate, you don't know his thoughts and where he stands so you are always scared that something unpredictable will happen and he'll leave you. This is something that destroys your health little by little. I'd never do that about a man, even for my H. If he wants to leave, I won't get sick about it. But the communication we have is so open and concrete that I know all his thoughts always so I don't worry.

Edited March 1, 2020 by SummerDreams

[rainfall]

20 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

This is the key problem you have. Even if he is the most innocent person in the world, the fact that a woman can't express her concerns to her husband is something that needs to be fixed and fast. Maybe this is the reason you are afraid all the time that you will lose him; if you don't communicate, you don't know his thoughts and where he stands so you are always scared that something unpredictable will happen and he'll leave you. This is something that destroys your health little by little. I'd never do that about a man, even for my H. If he wants to leave, I won't get sick about it. But the communication we have is so open and concrete that I know all his thoughts always so I don't worry.

I can’t communicate my concerns because every single one of them started by my snooping. There was an event that triggered it, but if I had believed him with what he said happened I wouldn’t be here now. 
 

I did causally mention I thought he was to close to the low class hoe I’m suspicious of. He got mad (bc I “didn’t trust him” and that’s how all this bs started. He was going out the same, but I know during football season it’s gonna happen. It just kept happening snd was more often snd later. 
 

I want to ask him to cut contact with that low class child, but he’ll probably just say I’m jealous over nothing. I hate this. 

[S2B]

If he got mad... that’s odd. People mainly get mad when they are defensive - so what’s he hiding? No need to get mad when you’re innocent...

and ask him to end that relationship. If he has such a great need to continue then that means you need to end your relationship with him.

healthy marriages - friends are friends of the marriage... and if they aren’t then they are out! He either chooses the marriage or a skanky gal who’s distracting him from his marriage - that’s all you need to tell him.

i would never be married to a guy who needs to go out several times a week to a bar. Why does he need to go there? Once a week during football season - ok. But every week all year long - for what? Drinking all night can’t be good for his health. It’s expensive. Doesn’t he have any productive hobbies? 
 

what kind of job does he work where he has enough energy at the end of a day to go out drinking all night?

 

[SummerDreams]

7 hours ago, rainfall said:

I can’t communicate my concerns because every single one of them started by my snooping. There was an event that triggered it, but if I had believed him with what he said happened I wouldn’t be here now. 

Both these things are a bad sign for a healthy marriage. A couple who can talk openly to each other would be able to say to one another "hey I have something that is upsetting me, I happened to find out [this and this] and I would like to talk to you about it and get an honest answer" and the other party would be honest about it. If someone is afraid to ask and the other is probably lying, then these things are more worrying than actually him cheating. Or at least equally worrying.

[rainfall]

4 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Both these things are a bad sign for a healthy marriage. A couple who can talk openly to each other would be able to say to one another "hey I have something that is upsetting me, I happened to find out [this and this] and I would like to talk to you about it and get an honest answer" and the other party would be honest about it. If someone is afraid to ask and the other is probably lying, then these things are more worrying than actually him cheating. Or at least equally worrying.

I came across all of this information by snooping. Everything else I’ve talked to him about and he had explanations and didn’t get mad so idk. I just wish I had got this info without snooping. 

[rainfall]

11 hours ago, S2B said:

If he got mad... that’s odd. People mainly get mad when they are defensive - so what’s he hiding? No need to get mad when you’re innocent...

and ask him to end that relationship. If he has such a great need to continue then that means you need to end your relationship with him.

healthy marriages - friends are friends of the marriage... and if they aren’t then they are out! He either chooses the marriage or a skanky gal who’s distracting him from his marriage - that’s all you need to tell him.

i would never be married to a guy who needs to go out several times a week to a bar. Why does he need to go there? Once a week during football season - ok. But every week all year long - for what? Drinking all night can’t be good for his health. It’s expensive. Doesn’t he have any productive hobbies? 
 

what kind of job does he work where he has enough energy at the end of a day to go out drinking all night?

 

He got mad bc he said I was accusing him of cheating. He says he would never do that. He’s been a lot better about not going out. It’s gone from 3-4 times a week to 1. He’s turned down invitations to go out. We’ve actually been spending more time together lately, but I still just have the feeling that he cheated, but I don’t know how to prove it. He’ll never admit it and if he didn’t I want to give this a try. 
 

he’s making an effort with the going out. Part of me says cheating, part says midlife crisis, and part says clueless jerk. Idk which it is, but I don’t want to end my marriage over the last two. 

[preraph]

This all sounds very midlife crisis-y. Being around the young folks makes him feel young and it can certainly lead to trouble.  He might just not deliberately go out and cheat but if he gets an emotional attachment to someone I bet he wouldn't be able to control it. and having some young woman acting like they're after you is very flattering although when that young woman works for you it's usually because she just wants to climb and uses him to do it through flattery.

[rainfall]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

This all sounds very midlife crisis-y. Being around the young folks makes him feel young and it can certainly lead to trouble.  He might just not deliberately go out and cheat but if he gets an emotional attachment to someone I bet he wouldn't be able to control it. and having some young woman acting like they're after you is very flattering although when that young woman works for you it's usually because she just wants to climb and uses him to do it through flattery.

This is exactly what I feel is happening. I just want it to be over. I’ve said many times I don’t mind a night or maybe two out a week. The 3 plus is a lot. It’s not healthy and it’s expensive. I don’t know how to help him if it is a mid life crisis though. 

[preraph]

I bet what would make it go away real quick as if you showed up every single time and just bit the bullet for a while. I know that's a huge sacrifice. and you would also have to tell him you want to leave earlier and not leave him there alone. You have to tell him you want to ride there with him and leave with him and then you would prod him to leave earlier. 

 

Either way you're going to end up in a fight about it. but really I think knowing that woman is after him I would just be there every minute and hopefully that takes the fun out of it for him if there's flirting going on between him. and also if he's acting the fool around the young people trying to fit in he might reign that in some if you were there. Again I know it's an incredibly hard sacrifice.

 

Hopefully they'll young lady will get a boyfriend of her own at some point. I bet he spending a ton of money buying them drinks and stuff. See if you can look at his finances because he won't be able to write all that off. If you're in the u.s. entertainment is only a 50% write off now and that's only if you have the owner's approval to do it at all and no one is going to do it for four times a week, believe me. So maybe you attack him on the financial aspect as well.

[justwhoiam]

On 2/6/2020 at 4:44 AM, rainfall said:

My partner and I have been together for almost 20 years.

Something doesn't add up in your story. You started out saying he's your partner. Then everybody started saying he's your husband, and you started calling him your husband.

Are you even married with this guy? Because I have a gut feeling you are not his wife. You are not a family. You're just partners. And that would explain the kind of dynamics in your relationship. Can you explain this? And you also mentioned he was staying 3 hours away at a friend's house. Your relationship seems to be stale and, although long-term, kind of casual. You accepted this kind of relationship for 20 years.

[S2B]

Would you say he has a drinking problem?

are you able to make ends meet without his income?

do you have kids together?

Edited March 1, 2020 by S2B

[rainfall]

2 hours ago, preraph said:

I bet what would make it go away real quick as if you showed up every single time and just bit the bullet for a while. I know that's a huge sacrifice. and you would also have to tell him you want to leave earlier and not leave him there alone. You have to tell him you want to ride there with him and leave with him and then you would prod him to leave earlier. 

 

Either way you're going to end up in a fight about it. but really I think knowing that woman is after him I would just be there every minute and hopefully that takes the fun out of it for him if there's flirting going on between him. and also if he's acting the fool around the young people trying to fit in he might reign that in some if you were there. Again I know it's an incredibly hard sacrifice.

 

Hopefully they'll young lady will get a boyfriend of her own at some point. I bet he spending a ton of money buying them drinks and stuff. See if you can look at his finances because he won't be able to write all that off. If you're in the u.s. entertainment is only a 50% write off now and that's only if you have the owner's approval to do it at all and no one is going to do it for four times a week, believe me. So maybe you attack him on the financial aspect as well.

I agree and am going to try to go out if and when I can. I hope she finds herself her own man soon as well. 

1 minute ago, S2B said:

Would you say he has a drinking problem?

are you able to make ends meet without his income?

do you have kids together?

No kids. Not really a drinking problem but he does like to drink. Not sure on ends. It would be tight. 

1 hour ago, justwhoiam said:

Something doesn't add up in your story. You started out saying he's your partner. Then everybody started saying he's your husband, and you started calling him your husband.

Are you even married with this guy? Because I have a gut feeling you are not his wife. You are not a family. You're just partners. And that would explain the kind of dynamics in your relationship. Can you explain this? And you also mentioned he was staying 3 hours away at a friend's house. Your relationship seems to be stale and, although long-term, kind of casual. You accepted this kind of relationship for 20 years.

Yep we are married. We just were never really big on marriage for a long time since we don’t have kids. To me partner/SO/husband all means the same. I want to spend the rest of my life with him. And I would never tell him he couldn’t go visit a friend. He’s allowed to have male friends and go to visit them. 
 

I wouldn’t say we are casual. I’m 100% committed to him and I want to spend my life with him. I’m just not wanting to share him with anyone. I’m hoping this trash girl finds her own man soon so she’ll realize mine is taken. 

[S2B]

But even if/when the other gal is removed you still are left with the same problems within your marriage.

have you considered counseling together?

i would want to resolve issues with him IF I was considering staying.

but why do you want him at all cost?

why wouldn’t you be talking about the big problems you have together and solutions to address what you two seem to avoid?

[rainfall]

6 minutes ago, S2B said:

But even if/when the other gal is removed you still are left with the same problems within your marriage.

have you considered counseling together?

i would want to resolve issues with him IF I was considering staying.

but why do you want him at all cost?

why wouldn’t you be talking about the big problems you have together and solutions to address what you two seem to avoid?

I’m going to stay as long as he didn’t cheat. I want him because I love him and can’t imagine life without him. We’ve discussed some of the issues that started this and the going out all the time has improved. Now it’s just my concern of him cheating. 

[justwhoiam]

31 minutes ago, rainfall said:

Yep we are married. We just were never really big on marriage for a long time since we don’t have kids.

So what happened? When did you get married? And why? Who came up with the idea?

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To me partner/SO/husband all means the same.

Yeah, that's personal perception. Law is a different matter.

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I want to spend the rest of my life with him

It needs to be mutual. How often are you intimate with him? Why would he prefer a night out in a bar to alone time with you (aka sex with you)? I guess the excitement is not there anymore. I don't want to be mean but if all you're offering is dinner and then it's two separate lives, I don't see the point. Maybe it's the comfort to have a partner and not being alone? Don't you have needs to be with him? And if so, how do you go about it? You need to force him down to have sex with you? That'd be awful to me.

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I would never tell him he couldn’t go visit a friend. He’s allowed to have male friends and go to visit them.

That's inconsequential I guess. This kind of relationship - as others previously pointed out - is not one where you share decisions, rather decisions are made unilaterally (or one-sidedly, as you wish). It's the type of deal you built with him. It's not that he needs to ask you anything. Neither the permission to go out, nor to leave home for trips or whatever. Now it looks like you're unhappy with the kind of arrangement you set for yourself in 20 years with him. You knew what he was willing to offer and you accepted it. I guess all that's left besides trying to nag is sucking it up or separate. And moreover, it looks like you were the one who started changing the home routines, with new working hours, so it felt ok for him to change his. Probably the only thing you could do is check his bank account and see how much he's splurging. If it's affecting your family budget, then you have something to call him out on, even legally. But if you do, that can be the end of your marriage.

[rainfall]

7 minutes ago, justwhoiam said:

So what happened? When did you get married? And why? Who came up with the idea?

Yeah, that's personal perception. Law is a different matter.

It needs to be mutual. How often are you intimate with him? Why would he prefer a night out in a bar to alone time with you (aka sex with you)? I guess the excitement is not there anymore. I don't want to be mean but if all you're offering is dinner and then it's two separate lives, I don't see the point. Maybe it's the comfort to have a partner and not being alone? Don't you have needs to be with him? And if so, how do you go about it? You need to force him down to have sex with you? That'd be awful to me.

That's inconsequential I guess. This kind of relationship - as others previously pointed out - is not one where you share decisions, rather decisions are made unilaterally (or one-sidedly, as you wish). It's the type of deal you built with him. It's not that he needs to ask you anything. Neither the permission to go out, nor to leave home for trips or whatever. Now it looks like you're unhappy with the kind of arrangement you set for yourself in 20 years with him. You knew what he was willing to offer and you accepted it. I guess all that's left besides trying to nag is sucking it up or separate. And moreover, it looks like you were the one who started changing the home routines, with new working hours, so it felt ok for him to change his. Probably the only thing you could do is check his bank account and see how much he's splurging. If it's affecting your family budget, then you have something to call him out on, even legally. But if you do, that can be the end of your marriage.

We both decided to go ahead and get married. We knew we wanted to be together forever, and being married made more sense then bf/gf. Even before we were married he was my “common law” husband, we just decided to make it official. Being married gives us more protections and this way just makes sense. 
 

we have sex 4-5 times a week and I don’t think I’ve ever “forced” him to have sex. We also do more than just have dinner. I personally don’t think I could be such a controlling psycho and tell him he can’t ever go out with his friends and he has to be home with me every night. That’s not healthy either. 
 

Im not his mother so he shouldn’t have to ask my permission to go out. I’m happy with the way things are now with his going out: it’s just that sad and pathetic little girl that wants him that is driving me crazy. I know she has nothing at all to offer him so I know he would never lower his standards for a relationship with her. I’m just paranoid something else is going on. 
 

and he supported my swapping my hours because he knew this was my dream job and it’s what I’ve worked so hard for 

[justwhoiam]

2 minutes ago, rainfall said:

Being married gives us more protections and this way just makes sense.

For some reason, I think it was you wanting those protections. He would have been just fine being your common-law partner. But I'll try and believe you both came up with the idea at the same time.

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we have sex 4-5 times a week

So you're having sex before he goes out... or what, at 4 am something before you prepare for work? THAT is a bad routine. Why are you doing that? That sounds more like ongoing quickies. No real intimacy or time for loving. Sorry but it doesn't look like neither of you is IN LOVE with one another.

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Im not his mother so he shouldn’t have to ask my permission to go out

Have you ever heard of the term "hall pass"? Its very existance is because married couples don't just do whatever they feel like whenever. I'm not discussing your arrangement, as every couple is entitled to their own arrangement. But just be aware that your view is not common among married couples. So you saying "I'm not his mother" would sound odd to most. You have your own idea of relationship, that is in a minority spectrum. Therefore, applying common sense and what anybody would do in your place is odd to me at this point, because most people wouldn't have this kind of arrangement during marriage.

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I’m happy with the way things are now with his going out

He only reduced time out because you kept asking for it, not out of his own will. You expressed concern in multiple posts about how unhealthy that is (he was spending up to 7 hours per 3 or 4 times a week drinking in a bar). A constant heavy drinking habit when you're a certain age is going to take its toll pretty soon. Have him get a blood test especially regarding his liver state. You'll be the one who will have to take care of his health issues. And if his alcohol levels are out of range, you might be alone facing expenses, with no insurance support. One fine morning, after he's been out all night drinking, you take him to take the blood test in the morning. And then see what happens. You're not his mother, but you're his wife.

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it’s just that sad and pathetic little girl that wants him that is driving me crazy. I know she has nothing at all to offer him so I know he would never lower his standards for a relationship with her. I’m just paranoid something else is going on.

You think she's sad. I didn't get that. She's in her 20s. I'm not sure why she gets state money. There's a chance she's lying to you and your husband is supporting her. What does a 20ish year old girl have to offer? Youth! Joy for life! Great stamina. Peachy skin. Should I go on?

Quote

he really does go out drinking at least 75% if the time.

You still have 25% of the time you don't know anything about. Also, he might be with friends untill 10 or 11 pm and then have time alone with someone else. If you have sex with him after his night out, you would know if he already had sex. I trust you'd be able to figure it out. The amount of sperm would diminish greatly. Start having sex every morning after his night out and you'll soon figure it out. He might just make an excuse and turn it down. Or pretend he's asleep. Or he might have issues performing. Check out for those signs.

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If I’m wrong I don’t want to ruin our marriage, but if I’m right I don’t want to be made a fool of.

At times, two people just take separate ways and marriage falls apart. Other times, two people can live their own lives and still stay in the marriage. But your level of unsatisfaction seems to have hit the fan.

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He just got a new phone last month and I don’t know the passcode.

Pretend you can't remember your passcode and can't access your phone, and you ask him for his phone to check out something online. If he gives it to you without a problem, fine. If he starts being fussy, that's your clue something fishy's going on. It doesn't take much really.

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Lots of texting (more than I feel is acceptable) he went out of town last weekend... She posted a picture of her out of town in the same place he was at but there was no date on the picture and she took it down a few hours later. And I just have a gut feeling about it.

You have apparent signs.

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he can’t leave work at all, but he can tell me he’s staying late and I’d have no way to know if he’s lying or not. 

He can leave work early and come home later. Or he can take the day off. But this guy's really blunt. He's not coming home to sleep on a regular basis.

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I asked him today if he was cheating and he said no, but I don’t believe a word he says anymore 

Sorry you feel that way and still holding on like that.

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I can if I check his credit card statement when he gets it. He always just leaves it laying om his desk. So far there have been no weird charges, but that weekend hasn't come yet.

He might do something stupid, but if he's smart enough, he's not using his credit card. This is how it works. He gets money at ATM. And then saves up over time, so that you don't suspect anything's different. He can either pay everything cash, or get one of those credit cards you get at the store and putting money in. Those credit cards are great to make reservations. You knew where he was staying. You can call up all the hotels there and say you're Mrs XXX. "My husband and I stayed on the night of.... but I can't find the hotel bill anymore. I guess we left it in a café on the way home. Can you please email it to me? If they said they emailed it already to another address, just say: oh, no, I guess it just went to spam there. You might be lucky and get the hotel bill. If he claimed he stayed at the friend's house, try it anyway. If you come up with a bill in his name, then that's your clue. There's a chance he put the bill in her name, but maybe not if he made the reservation.