A question for agnostic/atheist parents

[Shining One]

I get both Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm friendly to both, but I inform them of my atheism right away. I give them drinks and paper towels during the hot Florida summer. Many are surprised to receive kindness from an atheist, which is rather sad.

6 hours ago, major_merrick said:

I don't see that as imposing a view, I see it as earnestly wanting the best for my kids for eternity.

It's only imposing a view of you're exposing them to a singular view and saying: "this is the right one". If you're exposing them to multiple views and then telling them which one(s) you believe, then it is not imposing a view.

6 hours ago, major_merrick said:

It seems like many atheists and agnostics get to their viewpoint from a negative experience with religion.  Does that negative experience override the questions of "heaven, hell, or nothing?" 

I can't speak for others, but I came to my viewpoint after studying various religions. My father, though he was raised Hindu, wanted me to make my own choice. When I started asking questions about religion, he provided me with copies of the holy books of many different religions and gave me access to his very expensive encyclopedia set. I didn't have any negative experiences per se, but I came to the conclusion that everyone had different answers, but no one offered any proof that their answer was the correct one.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Shining One

[Baman]

7 hours ago, Pleasant-Sage said:

My Grandfather was a Southern Baptist Preacher. He had a JW preacher challenge him one day. He listened to him talk and argue against Baptist beliefs and Grandpa would debate counter points.

At the end, the JW preacher asked if he had any questions for him. He said just 2. First, he asked if they really believed only 144,000 people were going to heaven. JW preacher said they did. Grandpa then asked him why he goes door to door recruiting people then. JW preacher got up and left 😂

That JW didn't know his stuff... they have a simple enough answer to that one.

 

[Baman]

21 hours ago, pepperbird said:

Now that my husband;s retired and we live int he "civvy world", the JWs are back.

Next time, just tell them you want to be marked on their map (yes they have a map of your area) and records to mark you down as ''A do not call''. That means you should only see them maybe once a year at most.

failing that tell them you are ''An apostate who thinks the governing body are pedophiles from satan''... that should do the trick LOL!

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Baman said:

Next time, just tell them you want to be marked on their map (yes they have a map of your area) and records to mark you down as ''A do not call''. That means you should only see them maybe once a year at most.

failing that tell them you are ''An apostate who thinks the governing body are pedophiles from satan''... that should do the trick LOL!

awesome advice 🤣 my husband used to joke that we should get some FSM religious pamphlets made and knock on the door of one of their kingdom halls during a services saying we have some good news to share about the FSM and we'd like to come in and talk to them about it.

[pepperbird]

19 hours ago, major_merrick said:

The question in the back of my mind was always if you go to heaven, hell, or nothing.  Two of those possibilities are unpleasant.  So the result of end-of-life questions is a plan to avoid the two unpleasant possibilities if possible.  I was raised with a loose idea of heaven and hell, but no real path on how to get there.  Except possibly to die in battle...in which case heaven looked a lot like Valhalla. 

Now that I have the perspective of faith, I can't imagine not wanting to do what I can to get my kids to the heaven where I'm going.  I don't see that as imposing a view, I see it as earnestly wanting the best for my kids for eternity. 

It seems like many atheists and agnostics get to their viewpoint from a negative experience with religion.  Does that negative experience override the questions of "heaven, hell, or nothing?" 

Bed experiences have nothing to do with it. I actually have had some positive experiences. I'm jut not "built for faith" I guess.
I do agree with my parents though, indoctrinating a young child into any one faith is wrong. It's different if they come to it on their own or as an adult.

Edited February 14, 2020 by pepperbird

[basil67]

On 2/11/2020 at 4:22 AM, major_merrick said:

I always felt the same way.  But one of the things that has brought me to faith is watching how my husband raises his kids in the faith - a faith that is not blind but quite logical, and also very relational at the same time.  Kind of off topic, but there is another side. 

Let me ask - how would you feel if one (or more) of your kids became fervent believers in a faith that you dislike? 

Ok, a form of faith I dislike are the Christians who act in ways which Jesus never would.   Not helping those in need. Hating on people who have different race, religion, sexuality, gender.  Not being charitable.  If a child of mine became one of those, I have to admit that I would ask them "would Jesus do that?" each time they espoused uncharitable/judgemental views.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

2 hours ago, pepperbird said:

Bed experiences have nothing to do with it. I actually have had some positive experiences. I'm jut not "built for faith" I guess.
I do agree with my parents though, indoctrinating a young child into any one faith is wrong. It's different if they come to it on their own or as an adult.

Same here pepperbird.  I voluntarily attended scripture as a child and really wanted to believe.  But I think I just really liked the leaders, stories and activities.  When I was about 12, I gave up on it.   Tried again at about 15 when I had a good friend who was Christian, but.....nothing.  nope.  nada.  Have been firmly athiest since then.

Edited February 14, 2020 by basil67

[major_merrick]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Ok, a form of faith I dislike are the Christians who act in ways which Jesus never would.   Not helping those in need. Hating on people who have different race, religion, sexuality, gender.  Not being charitable.  If a child of mine became one of those, I have to admit that I would ask them "would Jesus do that?" each time they espoused uncharitable/judgemental views.

I think Jesus and His followers get quite misunderstood.  The Jesus I read about had high standards and was fairly anti-authoritarian.  I mean...making a whip to drive the traders out of the temple?  Not exactly non-violent or tolerant.  I think the better question to ask your kids is, "Do you live by the same standard that you hold others to?"  Which is the true context of the whole "judge not" speech. 

I believe that attempting to live in a non-hypocritical manner is a goal for many faiths, and for atheists and agnostics as well.  As for those who consider religious teaching "indoctrination," what about teaching children other values?  I mean, if truth is relative as many believe, then how is teaching peace and love and charity and tolerance not "indoctrination?"  If one thing is as good as another, then violence and hatred are equally fine, right?  My point in saying that is...you're going to get your values from some kind of external source.  So if one thing is indoctrination, then isn't everything we teach kids indoctrination?  I don't believe that any kind education (or any other human effort) is unbiased or impartial. 

[basil67]

I won't argue the Jesus thing with you because I don't know about what you're saying.  Definitely food for thought.  

Yes, I agree that religious indoctrination is as bad as now allowing discourse or debate in other areas.    Therefore, I encourage our kids to question everything.   We have state wide education tests every few years and one year, a question was "what law or rule do you think is wrong?"  Most kids had no trouble answering it.  Lots of little kids answered citing issues such as not agreeing with a compulsory school uniform.  My daughter answered citing our lack of marriage equality.   But some parents were up in arms because they always teach their kids to follow the law without question.  It's frightening.  

I didn't teach my daughter that she should help others.  Rather it's something I've always role modelled and she's picked up on it.   She's also aware that others have stepped in to help her brother when he's needed it and so does the same for others.  Paying it forward if you will.   And the public schools she's gone to teach kids to help each other and to stand up for each other when required.  So there's that too. 

[pepperbird]

I refuse to believe that there is  anyone qualified to interpret religious texts. What on earth makes someone feel they are in any way qualified to know the mind of god?

[major_merrick]

@pepperbirdBut you don't believe in God, right?  Then...aren't those religious texts the same to you as a science book, a novel, or a dictionary?  In my faith, the Bible is God's letter to us, so interpreting it and acting on it are what He wants us to do.  Why would God bother to divinely inspire the writing of a book if we weren't supposed to use it?

Even when I was closer to being agnostic (or more accurately just hating God for what I thought was a crap hand that he dealt me) I still did not understand the thought process of atheists and agnostics. 

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, major_merrick said:

@pepperbirdBut you don't believe in God, right?  Then...aren't those religious texts the same to you as a science book, a novel, or a dictionary?  In my faith, the Bible is God's letter to us, so interpreting it and acting on it are what He wants us to do.  Why would God bother to divinely inspire the writing of a book if we weren't supposed to use it?

Even when I was closer to being agnostic (or more accurately just hating God for what I thought was a crap hand that he dealt me) I still did not understand the thought process of atheists and agnostics. 

You are a human being, limited by your own ability to understand, as am I.

There's no real point in me trying to explain this to you. it would be like you trying to convince me that faith is best. It;'a just not the way my  mind works. To me, faith based texts are no different than fairly tales- fables that have been used to excuse and justify an awful lot of atrocious behaviour over the years.

Perhaps they should come with a warning label?

[major_merrick]

Haha I think at least some religious texts ought to have a warning label.  And parts of the Bible are kind of "PG-13"...  I always find it interesting how the story of Noah and the Ark ends up being read to children.  I mean, really cheerful stuff to read to toddlers.  Mankind is totally evil, so God wipes 'em all out and drowns the planet.  Not that Hans Christian Anderson's fairy tales are all that cheerful either.