Unemployed Partner and Step-Son

[neowulf]

3 hours ago, gaius said:

I think you need to make a concrete decision. If you're willing to become the long term sole provider for this family unit or whether you're not. With the understanding that the relationship may not survive if you don't.

If you are, then you have to find a way to cope with the stress of having 2 people dependent on you with no complimentary support system. If you aren't, then you need to start setting boundaries and stop bailing her out. Come up with reasonable expectations, lay them out for her and stick to your guns. If you two agree to put up 6 grand eachfor a trip and she doesn't come up with her half then you don't go. Because all your actions have told her so far is that you're OK with picking up the slack.

Thank you for this.  Part of the reason I posted about this in the first place was to try and get some perspective.

I understand that life doesn't always go to plan, but there has to be a point where you're honest with yourself about what you want and how you're going to get it.

I don't like ultimatiums, but having a frank discussion about where we're at and how long I'm willing to go along like this is worth having.  

I'm not trying to be cruel or unreasonable.  I only want to strive for fairness.

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, neowulf said:

I understand that life doesn't always go to plan, but there has to be a point where you're honest with yourself about what you want and how you're going to get it.

She needs a plan, and she needs to demonstrate that she is willing to work toward getting back on feet by developing and executing that plan. 

[neowulf]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

She needs a plan, and she needs to demonstrate that she is willing to work toward getting back on feet by developing and executing that plan. 

Well, at this point she appears to be applying for jobs on a regular basis.. but it's been over a month and she's managed to secure 2 interviews from dozens of applications?

I don't know if that means she's shooting too high, or if her resume needs more polish or perhaps it's just a bad time in the market.

This has happened to her before, before we got together.  She was let go from a job and found herself unemployed for 9 months and wracked up a massive debt that she only just managed to pay down before we got together.

I'm probably not painting a great picture of her.  She's honestly a lovely person.  It's not that I think she's some kind of abuser, trying to swindle me out of my savings.  I just think she's not great with money and I've probably made the mistake of being "too supportive" in some aspects.

I wanted to get peoples read on the situation to see how they'd feel in a simular situation.  

[S2B]

Well you’re not married.

when I was single I knew it was my position to make plenty of money to support myself. I had that mindset since I was right out of high school. I always worked even as a young teen. Any job to make money. 
 

and when I married I always worked to contribute and make ends meet and save enough money to buy cars and houses etc.

the problem here is that you pick up her tab because she doesn’t have money. Her problem shouldn’t be YOUR responsibility.

pay your half. She needs to figure out how to pay her half! She also needs to be supporting HER son, that’s NOT your obligation!

sit her down and tell her that’s what you’ll do - and she can figure out how to carry the responsibility that should be only hers!

read codependent no more... by Beattie 

you seem to be taking on HER problems like they are yours - they aren’t YOURS... they are solely HERS.

at 45 years old she should have this figured out by now! I would never quit any paying job BEFORE securing my next one. And I certainly wouldn’t go on any vacation! Even if someone else paid! I would need to take my own money.

any 18 year old doing 9 (9!) hours of school has tons of time to WORK and contribute to the household bills by paying rent! That’s how you get kids to become independent and understand how to support themselves.

i do think you can be buying groceries and helping with expenses at the house - but come on - the two need to learn how to be responsible! And if she doesn’t know by 45 that would be a huge red flag for me.

and I’m a woman... by the way.

[BaileyB]

A month isn’t that long. Depending on her skills, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that it will take her a little time to find a job. Hopefully she will find another job soon and you can move on from this. It’s stressful for all, I’m sure.

[S2B]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

A month isn’t that long. Depending on her skills, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that it will take her a little time to find a job. Hopefully she will find another job soon and you can move on from this. It’s stressful for all, I’m sure.

But she is a mother and should have considered being out of work BEFORE she left the last job. Heck, most people work with others they don’t like that much - but most responsible people stay, and suck it up, because they have responsibilities and consider the fact that they need money every month to live.

i think it was terribly irresponsible and immature that she quit BEFORE finding a new job. And she went on vacation spending your money when she knew she needed to save money and look for a job (that’s backwards).

those are the main reasons I find it concerning.

dies the boys father ever contribute money monthly for her son? Or did that end when he finished high school? If so, how does she plan to make up for the loss of that money?

[neowulf]

50 minutes ago, S2B said:

But she is a mother and should have considered being out of work BEFORE she left the last job. Heck, most people work with others they don’t like that much - but most responsible people stay, and suck it up, because they have responsibilities and consider the fact that they need money every month to live.

i think it was terribly irresponsible and immature that she quit BEFORE finding a new job. And she went on vacation spending your money when she knew she needed to save money and look for a job (that’s backwards).

those are the main reasons I find it concerning.

dies the boys father ever contribute money monthly for her son? Or did that end when he finished high school? If so, how does she plan to make up for the loss of that money?

Thankfully, the boys father seems like a pretty standup guy.  When the son moved in with us full time, he offered to give us some money towards food for the kid until he finds his own job, so that's something at least.  

I admit that quiting a job before having another one really set my teeth on edge.  It's not something I would ever consider doing.  However, she was being relentlessly bullied at work by her supervisor and it was beginning to take an obvious toll on her.  It wasn't like she just up and quit the job without speaking with me first.  I could see how much pain it was causing her, so in the end, I thought "suck it up" and did my best to support her.

In the end, I guess I have no one to blame but myself for this situation.  I just wanted to try and be a supportive partner, but I can see how quickly these things can get out of hand if you're not careful.

She's told me that she intends to pay me back her share of the holiday money once she gets a job.  Given the last attempt at saving though.. I don't know.  I guess we'll have to see how it pans out.  I don't think I'd go through this kind of thing again though.  Being let go is one thing.  Choosing to leave a job before you have a fall back plan is something else.

 

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

A month isn’t that long. Depending on her skills, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that it will take her a little time to find a job. Hopefully she will find another job soon and you can move on from this. It’s stressful for all, I’m sure.

No, it isn't that long and hopefully both her and her son will have something locked down within the next month.  I suppose I've just read and witnessed enough horror stories of people ending up supporting people who flat out refused to work, dragging them into debt.  I've worked hard to try and get ahead in life.  It'd be very difficult for me to accept that situation.

[ChatroomHero]

On 2/9/2020 at 10:01 PM, neowulf said:

I admit, it keeps me awake at night sometimes.  There have been a number of circumstances beyond her control which lead to this point, but it does worry me.  I suppose I'm trying to figure out what's reasonable and when to panic.  

Well the issue is there was one circumstance totally in her control and she made the worst choice.Look at it like this, if you said tomorrow you hate your job and plan to quit, she'd probably throw you out. Her and her son have decided they have you to fall back on so they gladly do. That way they don't have to do anything they don't like because they know where to find the atm.

Honestly the only way you can take control is to pay the bills you have to, don't pay any of her bills or his. Like if she has a credit card or he wants to go eat at Subway, close the wallet. Unless you agreed to cover their every need if she quit her job, you need to tell her...I didn't agree to cover your every need and I am not going to. Video games stay off until he gets a job, trip the fuse to his room and padlock the panel.

I have dated people with what I consider "casual" jobs. It usually seems like they feel they need their dream job or they just quit. If they have an atm around, they could be 1 day from defaulting on their rent for the month and the day before payday they quit because they can't stand working one more minute! They usually assume that if they quit, someone else will just pick up their slack. I think you need to tell them you are out of money and need them to put a plan on paper of how they plan to pay their bills and pay you back within say, 6 months.

What would make them change, comfort or absolute soul crushing fear of being homeless? 

[PinkFlamingo]

15 hours ago, neowulf said:

I suppose I'm wondering who's going to take care of me if I stumble?  Why is everything on my back?  I was raised to strive for an egaltarian relationship with my partner, but suddenly I'm the one with everything on his back.  I thought the point of a relationship was to support one another, but lately all I seem to be doing is carrying people.  I've worked hard all my life to never be a burden to others, yet all I ever seem to do is find people who take advantage of me. 

I thought my girlfriend was different, but it's seeming more and more like she's just like every other person who's taken advantage of me.

I would never quit my job and put her in this position.  I would never ask her for money.  I would have to be in a hostpital bed before I'd accept that kind of help.

This isn't something that "happened" to her.  It's a course of action she chose and it's put us in this position and I don't know when or if it's going to end.

I feel trapped.  What am I suppose to do if it gets to a year and they're both still unemployed?  Am I suppose to just leave her and her son pennyless?  At risk of homelessness?

Do I just struggle on, giving up on all the things I hoped to achieve?

Someone called me a fair-weather boyfriend.  I can't decide if that's unfair or not.  I am trying to be supportive.

There are relationships and there are relationships. Also people are different. If you saw your relationship as the kind of relationship where your partner and any offsprings are considered to be your family, then it would be different and you would mind less shouldering the financial burden for a while, because it is not unusual for partners to support each other when one has a crisis and you yourself probably would not have a problem with accepting help then. But they are not family (yet?) and so far, they are kind of causing more stress than one would expect from a relationship. 

I guess, you need to talk to her and answer a couple of questions for yourself:

• How much do you really care for her? 
• Is she the kind of person who has control over her life or is she the kind of person who will always need someone else to lean on?
• If she indeed belongs to the category big spender and is unable to change, can you deal with it?
• Is this a relationship that has a lot of potential or is it just a relationship for the moment?
• Are you painting the situation in an overly bad light because of personal issues with money?
• How much money are you really "losing" by supporting her and her son for a couple of months? Is it really worth going overdrive? 

 

[Ruby Slippers]

12 hours ago, neowulf said:

I guess in the end, I need to decide how long I can reasonably wait for things to improve.  I don't think it should take 6 months to find a job.  Sure, it might not be a great job, but you can find a job of some kind within 3-6 months.  That goes for both her and her son.  

I agree completely. I've been employed full-time since age 16, and part-time since age 11 with  babysitting jobs and the like. I've 100% supported myself financially since age 17. I would never, ever quit my job without another one lined up and rely on my boyfriend to take care of me, no matter how much I hated the job, especially if I had a son.

In any case, there are TONS of ways to make money these days, maybe not in your ideal job, but through all kinds of casual work situations - taxi driving, food delivery, retail work, babysitting, housekeeping, errand running, filing, data entry, personal assistant work, and on and on. One can easily make at least $2,000 a month in these types of positions, and she could get started TODAY.

You seem to be in the habit of making questionable financial decisions to accommodate her preferences, which is why the situation keeps getting worse. She won't get her s*** together until you put your foot down, because she doesn't have to.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[S2B]

You have actually “helped her” to go on that vacation and to be unemployed. Mainly because you pay while she doesn’t work.

so stop “helping her”. She’s an adult. SHE needs to figure out HER problems.

 

it’s like you are now raising two children. End that dynamic. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by S2B

[lil_missy]

I’m in a similar situation and can totally relate. My husband basically has been not giving me a cent for the past 5 months and having me pay for mortgage and bills and everything. We also have a 3 yo son who I look after and pay for everything for. On top of that I’ve been paying off his debts in the thousands. 

So you know what after 5 months I left him and I don’t regret the decision at all. He has been slowly dragging me down in our marriage for years. 

But you won’t leave til things get really bad. So now it’s been a month for you, which is not that long, but you fear where things are going and your fear is justified. 

This is just a symptom of her issues, the deeper issue is like you said, she is 45 flat broke , basically indicates she’s made bad decisions her whole life and have NO ability to look after herself. When some one is this way, they won’t change. When they have a job they might get by pay to pay. But never live comfortably. 

But one set back like this they could end up homeless and living on the streets. 

And you have to think Are you willing to support her if she’s on the street? If not you need to leave her 

to me it’s a no brainer coz I’ve been there. I had a marriage and a child and I left, for a better future for both myself and my son. 

Youre not even married and not even your child. I don’t see anything tying you to this this woman. 

[gaius]

I'm hot for my wife to the point that she can get me to do some things I wouldn't normally do. For example, I never wanted to have biological children, change diapers and all that, but if I got home from work one day and she was clad in nothing but some black lacy garter lingerie and I couldn't have her unless I agreed to a baby I'd probably have to clear my calendar for 9 months from then.

That's a more extreme example, but it's not unusual for a woman you love to have influence over you on some level. And you weren't wrong for following your first instinct to help her out. But now that it's clear that she probably quit her job without very good cause (bullying doesn't count) and she might not be making the best effort to land another job, if you choose not to take action you can't really complain. Just have to find a way to cope. Like I would just have to figure out how to work a diaper.

[neowulf]

5 hours ago, lil_missy said:

So you know what after 5 months I left him and I don’t regret the decision at all. He has been slowly dragging me down in our marriage for years. 

But you won’t leave til things get really bad. So now it’s been a month for you, which is not that long, but you fear where things are going and your fear is justified. 

I'm sorry to hear you were forced to leave.  It must have been a very difficult decision to come to.  

I guess this is the first real test of our relationship together.  It's the first time things have been this bad, in an otherwise pretty great relationship.

I think I'm just going to have to make my mind up on how long I'm willing to tolerate the situation.  You're right in that I don't "owe" her anything.  But I do love her.  

I don't want to be forced to choose between her and financial security, but I wasn't the one to put us into this situation.  It was her actions, her decisions that lead us to this point.

But I've made it clear to her that my support has limits. 

She said "So you love those things more than me?!". 

I said no, but I have boundaries and healthy peope should have boundaries. 

[neowulf]

1 hour ago, gaius said:

But now that it's clear that she probably quit her job without very good cause (bullying doesn't count) and she might not be making the best effort to land another job, if you choose not to take action you can't really complain. Just have to find a way to cope. Like I would just have to figure out how to work a diaper.

I know that in the end, it's my decision.  I'm not legally required to stay, but the sunk costs are just stinging me now.  It's a 4 year relatioship, not a girl I've been dating for 6 months.

I can only begin to imagine what it must be like for people to leave a 10+ year marriage.  How do you even begin to think about starting over after that kind of loss.

[lil_missy]

16 minutes ago, neowulf said:

 

I don't want to be forced to choose between her and financial security, but I wasn't the one to put us into this situation.  It was her actions, her decisions that lead us to this point.

She said "So you love those things more than me?!". 

That is exactly what I did and what I hope you won’t have to do - choose btwn someone you love and financial security.

And yeh my ex had said things to me like “ all you care about is money”, “ what about all the times I was there for you, you’re heartless “  it’s really hard to hear those things. But they are not true. Not willing to financially support another adult as if they are a dependent of yours is completely reasonable . 

And if you’re honest, have you ever notice other signs in your relationship that she was financially irresponsible before? If she’s being like this as long as you’ve known her then she’s never gonna change. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by lil_missy

[S2B]

How much extra money each month do you figure it’s costing you to support her and her son?

[Ruby Slippers]

10 hours ago, neowulf said:

I don't want to be forced to choose between her and financial security, but I wasn't the one to put us into this situation.  It was her actions, her decisions that lead us to this point.

But I've made it clear to her that my support has limits. 

She said "So you love those things more than me?!". 

I said no, but I have boundaries and healthy peope should have boundaries. 

That's a very manipulative comment from her. Never in a million years would I say such a thing to someone who's supporting me while I'm not working, especially when there are dozens of things she could be doing right now to bring in income. She's a grown woman with a son, not a dependent child. Her attitude is very concerning. I get the impression she's gonna ride this gravy train as long as you let her.

[Rockdad]

I'm going to agree with Ruby.  I had the thought since the trend is kids living at home for extended years now how is that going to factor in?

[neowulf]

12 hours ago, S2B said:

How much extra money each month do you figure it’s costing you to support her and her son?

I've been avoiding trying to put a number on it at this point.  Going forward, I guess I should probably figure it out to get a better idea of where we stand.

The quarterly bills are going to hurt.  A lot. 

[neowulf]

14 hours ago, lil_missy said:

... if you’re honest, have you ever notice other signs in your relationship that she was financially irresponsible before? If she’s being like this as long as you’ve known her then she’s never gonna change. 

Yes.  While there are reasons why she's ended up at this point, a lot of it has come down to poor decisions.

People aren't perfect though.  I'm not pefect.  But finances are such an important area of life.  I don't want to end up poor and in terrible debt.  I worked so hard to avoid it, you know.  I know there's a lot of bottled up anger against her for putting us in this situation.  We've all but stopped sleeping together since we got back from our holiday.  I've lost all interest.

[S2B]

1 hour ago, neowulf said:

Yes.  While there are reasons why she's ended up at this point, a lot of it has come down to poor decisions.

People aren't perfect though.  I'm not pefect.  But finances are such an important area of life.  I don't want to end up poor and in terrible debt.  I worked so hard to avoid it, you know.  I know there's a lot of bottled up anger against her for putting us in this situation.  We've all but stopped sleeping together since we got back from our holiday.  I've lost all interest.

It’s not surprising you’ve lost interest. 
 

no sex is just an indicator of how sick your relationship has become. 
 

it seems like time to be on your own - and for her to figure out how to make things work so she is independent and capable of providing for herself consistently - her son too! 
 

you aren’t married. And she should be capable of having her exH provide more for her son or have the son also get full time work. She’s helping him be immature and you are helping both of them be immature.

at 45 she needs to grow up! Heck many times when things are tough I’ve worked 3 jobs to make sure I have enough money every month! ANY job is better than no job!

 

[PinkFlamingo]

Do a test, ask her if she is  willing to consider moving to cheaper place with you and see how she reacts. Her living in a house with high rent doesn't make sense if she is not able to get a high-earning job and keeping it. It didn't make sense before and it makes even less sense now. If she is not realistic about her earning potential and what she can afford, then you will be the one who will have to carry the financial burden if you stay.

[gaius]

If it's so bad you don't desire her sexually anymore then your relationship is already over. At this point you can either break up or take action to fix it.

I would sit her down and have a very loving but direct conversation. Be honest and tell her how uncomfortable debt and lack of income are to you, how much you love her but how unhappy you are with the situation, and that if you didn't care for her so much you might already be gone. That you've tried because you love her but it's not a situation that can work long term for you. That you need to see some real progress and results on her part. And don't let her guilt or turn it around on you. You have to stick to your guns and be honest.

Maybe she'll take the hint and get back to work or maybe she needs a guy who's going to fully provide. But either way you'll end up moving toward a resolution that works for both of you. If it ends up being breakup, then so be it. I know it seems daunting to start over again after 4 years but that's no excuse to try and keep a corpse of a relationship alive.

[neowulf]

7 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

Do a test, ask her if she is  willing to consider moving to cheaper place with you and see how she reacts. Her living in a house with high rent doesn't make sense if she is not able to get a high-earning job and keeping it. It didn't make sense before and it makes even less sense now. If she is not realistic about her earning potential and what she can afford, then you will be the one who will have to carry the financial burden if you stay.

Our lease is signed till November.  I've already told them that if she doesn't have a job to cover her part of the rent come November, then we're moving.  I can't afford the pay the rent on my own.  Of course, we live in a two story house where the bottom floor is filled to the brim with books, clothes, crafting gear...etc.  It's borderline horder behaviour, though I have seen her get rid of stuff before.  

She says she agree's and that she'll clean up down stairs, but she's been saying that for a while and we've seen zero progress...

 

 

5 hours ago, gaius said:

If it's so bad you don't desire her sexually anymore then your relationship is already over. At this point you can either break up or take action to fix it.

I would sit her down and have a very loving but direct conversation. Be honest and tell her how uncomfortable debt and lack of income are to you, how much you love her but how unhappy you are with the situation, and that if you didn't care for her so much you might already be gone. That you've tried because you love her but it's not a situation that can work long term for you. That you need to see some real progress and results on her part. And don't let her guilt or turn it around on you. You have to stick to your guns and be honest.

Maybe she'll take the hint and get back to work or maybe she needs a guy who's going to fully provide. But either way you'll end up moving toward a resolution that works for both of you. If it ends up being breakup, then so be it. I know it seems daunting to start over again after 4 years but that's no excuse to try and keep a corpse of a relationship alive.

You're right.  We've begun to have these kinds of conversation. 

I told her that if she wanted a man who would provide fully for her, then she should have made that clear up front.  I'm not that guy and I never pretended to be.  Both my parents worked full time from the day they left school and I grew up in a two income household.  I've always expected my partner to work.  It's about being being a team and working towards shared goals.  We can't afford the kind of lifestyle we both want on a single income.

I've spoken with others and they tend to confirm the position you've all been stating here.  In the end, she's an adult.  I've tried to make my needs and expectations clear.  I can't make her meet those expectations, but I can decide what's best for me going forward.

I am utterly desolate at the though of losing this relationship over this.  I feel betrayed and cheated.  I'm 41 years old... I'm too old for this s***