Is there any hope of salvaging this relationship? THANK YOU!

[chillii]

 

Haaa, thanks maxx , sounds very cool l might give that a try and see whats around . Had an offer a few mths back to go riding through the mountains for about a wk, horses. But there would've only been 3 people , one l don't even get along with very well and l didn't know the other one so l passed .  A week alone in the mountains with the wrong people ahh, gotta watch that sort of thing. But in a larger group  it would've been great.

Anyway thanks again , l'll see what l can find.

Edited February 21, 2020 by chillii

[MaxxNY]

I think you guys were right, she already has a tinder dating profile created ...fu*ck it hurts 

[ExpatInItaly]

No doubt that's hard to see. 

But let it be your confirmation that this girl is not the one for you, and probably never was. 

[MaxxNY]

And the crazy part is that two days ago she sends me a message and deletes it. Today I ask her what she said in that message.  She responds by saying it's too late. When I ignore that, she goes on with a rant of good luck with whoever you were with for the past two days and you are not going to ignore me like this. Why even go there is she is is ready to see other poeple? (She does not know that I know)

[ExpatInItaly]

12 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

Why even go there is she is is ready to see other poeple? 

Because she doesn't seem to be very emotionally stable, so she behaves accordingly. 

This isn't someone you'll be able to make sense of. 

[MaxxNY]

Daisydooks, thank you for your response. I like your insight, and would love for you to elaborate a little more if you could. Thanks in advance

M

On 2/20/2020 at 8:56 AM, Daisydooks said:

Run. Dont walk. 

Thank your lucky stars she lives as far away as she does and that you dodged a bullet here. 

Dont pursue this unless you want to be here in a few years writing about a  nasty and disgusting divorce. 

This woman is bad news. 

 

[Daisydooks]

14 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

Daisydooks, thank you for your response. I like your insight, and would love for you to elaborate a little more if you could. Thanks in advance

M

 

The girl is insane. She is emotionally unstable. She is a game player. She has already moved on, yet wants to torture you with this push-pull / back and forth game. She has been nothing but a headache since the start. She is far too demanding, jealous over silly stuff.... should I continue? All bad. Not something you want to anchor yourself to. The games on Valentines day? Yep. Abort mission. 

If you ended up with her and had kids,  it would be more of this push pull nonsense but she would use your children as pawns in the fight. 

[MaxxNY]

.

Edited February 26, 2020 by MaxxNY

[MaxxNY]

6 hours ago, Daisydooks said:

The girl is insane. She is emotionally unstable. She is a game player. She has already moved on, yet wants to torture you with this push-pull / back and forth game. She has been nothing but a headache since the start. She is far too demanding, jealous over silly stuff.... should I continue? All bad. Not something you want to anchor yourself to. The games on Valentines day? Yep. Abort mission. 

If you ended up with her and had kids,  it would be more of this push pull nonsense but she would use your children as pawns in the fight. 

Thanks Daisy. I know I sound like a hardheaded idiot, but I fell for this one hard. The jealousy showed early, but otherwise we had an amazing relationship and she was 110% into it. Part of me is blaming myself for taking that week off, and distancing myself rather than being supportive when we fought. I think Im just looking for reasons to help me move on and stop blaming myself. 

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

Thanks Daisy. I know I sound like a hardheaded idiot, but I fell for this one hard. The jealousy showed early, but otherwise we had an amazing relationship and she was 110% into it. Part of me is blaming myself for taking that week off, and distancing myself rather than being supportive when we fought. I think Im just looking for reasons to help me move on and stop blaming myself. 

The problem with this notion?

You two still didn't know each other that well when you decided to be a couple. What was amazing was the honeymoon period, which usually is amazing because we're running on lust and rainbows. You didn't spend that much time together in person (relative to a non-LDR), so it's easy for everything to feel amazing when you don't truly know the other party yet. It's easy to get swept up in the idea of the relationship, and the gooey future-fantasizing, before you genuinely know what you're signing up for. It's easy to talk big and appear 110% invested when you're not dealing the practicalities of a long-term relationship. 

You have to remember not take the honeymoon period as representative of a relationship in general. Amazing relationships involve a lot of communication, compassion and willingness to adapt and hear your partner. This went lopsided pretty quickly and doesn't sound like it was that amazing, to be honest. Things started to sour when you spent more time together - that was your sign that you two were not on the same page. You shouldn't really even need to worry about how to handle fights that early on, because there generally shouldn't be any fighting so soon to begin with. 

This girl was simply not who you thought and hoped she was. 

[MaxxNY]

On 2/26/2020 at 3:55 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

Amazing relationships involve a lot of communication, compassion and willingness to adapt and hear your partner. This went lopsided pretty quickly and doesn't sound like it was that amazing, to be honest. Things started to sour when you spent more time together - that was your sign that you two were not on the same page

Expat, the more time goes by and I have a chance to read everyone's input, and reflect on how things went, the more in makes sense. Perhaps I did not give her the reassurance and support at first but after our fallout, I was 100% clear about my intentions. If we were not on the same then What the heck was her agenda then?!?!? Why waste the time on all the games?

Edited February 27, 2020 by MaxxNY

[zeyta]

On 2/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, MaxxNY said:

If we were not on the same then What the heck was her agenda then?

I would say the fiancee VISA option to be quite blunt...Once you removed that option from the conversation,  her craziness and silly behaviour started. 

On 2/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, MaxxNY said:

Perhaps I did not give her the reassurance and support at first but after our fallout

Don't go there. It's not your fault. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

On 2/27/2020 at 10:24 PM, MaxxNY said:

 If we were not on the same then What the heck was her agenda then?!?!? Why waste the time on all the games?

Moving to the US. 

Or plain emotional instability. 

Or both. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Watercolors]

Oh MaxxNY what can I say? Reading your story was like reading Ross & Emily ("Friends")'s. Yes, I like to frame my feedback sometimes with pop culture references, b/c I'm crazy like that. 

You had a nice fling that stopped working when real life's parameters interfered. A rational partner living abroad would have easily given you the week off to deal with the stressors of your move to your new place, and then picked right back up when you texted that Saturday with the good news that your stressful week of moving was complete. A rational partner would not accuse you of ulterior motives b/c a random waitress stands too close to you in a restaurant. A rational partner would not exhibit paranoid behavior and act insecure as she has, all over digital communication. 

You need to find your Rachel. Maybe she's someone you already know through one of those Meetup groups you belong to. And geez, NYC has 8.6 million people packed into, of which 52% are women. Those are damn good odds in your favor. No passport required. Unless you two want to travel to Europe together. 

Chalk this experience up to a great 'bad' dating story you can regale your friends with. Forget about her and move on. She was not compatible with you or your lifestyle. You shouldn't have to negotiate or bargain with a relationship partner over the things you did. She appears to be very emotionally manipulative and controlling and that is not someone you should settle for. Go buy a road bike and take on the streets of NYC for adventure to get your mind off of her. She's Bad News Bears buddy. 

[Watercolors]

On 2/27/2020 at 3:24 PM, MaxxNY said:

Why waste the time on all the games?

Because some women are like that and there's nothing you or any man can do to change that. It's inherent to who they are, and how they interact with the world. Some women have narcissistic traits, or, very passive-aggressive behavior communication style. Some women play games with men because at their core, they are very insecure about themselves and rather than have the maturity to do the internal work on themselves, they project their baggage onto their closest victim (aka boyfriend) and blame him for their own baggage. If that makes any sense. They set it up so that their boyfriend is a fly in a spiderweb, so to speak. There's just no escape from their mental mind games if you are in a relationship with them. 

[MaxxNY]

14 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Because some women are like that and there's nothing you or any man can do to change that. It's inherent to who they are, and how they interact with the world. Some women have narcissistic traits, or, very passive-aggressive behavior communication style. Some women play games with men because at their core, they are very insecure about themselves and rather than have the maturity to do the internal work on themselves, they project their baggage onto their closest victim (aka boyfriend) and blame him for their own baggage. If that makes any sense. They set it up so that their boyfriend is a fly in a spiderweb, so to speak. There's just no escape from their mental mind games if you are in a relationship with them. 

 

On 2/29/2020 at 11:18 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

Moving to the US. 

Or plain emotional instability. 

Or both. 

 

On 2/29/2020 at 8:57 AM, zeyta said:

I would say the fiancee VISA option to be quite blunt...Once you removed that option from the conversation,  her craziness and silly behaviour started. 

Don't go there. It's not your fault. 

 

Zeyta, Expat Watercolors. Thank you for your insightful comments. It hurts like hell, I miss the good times, and wish we could go back, but that is probably not possible. I understand that the reality is obscured by my fantasy of what this could have been. Its time to move on and find my "Rachel" However, I am trying to make this as much of a learning experience as I can. I know that in the past I was prone to avoidant attachment style. Perhaps some of it manifested here too. Is there anything I can take from this as a lesson to better myself?:

After her 1st visit I was a bit concerned about early signs of insecurity and jealous and said that despite talking online daily for 2 months, we only spent 3 weeks in person. I suggested we continue and see where things go. Did I wait too long to reassure her that I want this to be a serious relationship? Did that intensify her insecurities? We discussed our status during her 2nd trip. However, she expressed resentment that she "practically pulled my tongue" before I agreed on our girlfriend/boyfriend status. 

When we discussed the possibility of her moving here to be with me, was my cautious(avoidant?) approach and "dont move on my account, so you have no regrets if things dont work out". Did I push her away?

I did not lay out my "grand plan" about us working towards being together permanently, bridging the gap by frequent trips and how serious I was about making my future with her, until after that fatal week apart. Im sure some of it was motivated by my fear of loosing her.  Was that "too little to late"

I also think that at first sign of the back and forth, I should have been more firm and told her that we are going to work on this or just let it go. In hindsight, I think that my attempts to reassure her, jump through hoops to prove how serous I am about this only made me come across as desperate and made her loose respect for me. 

 

Thanks again !!!

M

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

When we discussed the possibility of her moving here to be with me, was my cautious(avoidant?) approach and "dont move on my account, so you have no regrets if things dont work out". Did I push her away?

OP, you need to stop reading what you're reading about attachment styles. You're not correctly understanding them. 

You have said nothing here to indicate you are avoidant. You barely knew this girl. Being cautious in discussing her moving overseas to you was not avoidant - it was rational, healthy and mature. A normal and well-adjusted adult would understand your concerns, and probably have a few of their own. Anyone who is willing to throw caution to the wind is someone you should be very careful with. 

You keep looking ways to blame yourself and beat yourself up. That says a lot more about you than it does her. Where the heck is your self-esteem, and trust in yourself that you were right to be concerned about a few things with her? Why did you so willingly attach yourself to someone you hardly knew, and build up so many future plans without a solid foundation? You don't necessarily need to answer those questions here, but you do need to think about them. Were you particularly lonely for a girlfriend? 

You also mention you want to go "back to the good times." When were those good times, exactly? The first few days you knew each other? The ensuing relationship largely carried out online? You had such a short-lived fling with her and spent very little time in each other's presence. And when you did, it crumbled pretty fast. What were these good times you are now clinging to?

I don't mean to minimize how you currently feel, to be very clear. I know you're hurting. But I think when you zoom out, you will see that you and she really didn't have anything solid and viable going. Maybe a few fun days, yes, and some flattering online communications for a couple months. But that's not the stuff truly great relationships are made of. She wasn't in it for the long haul, or she wouldn't have been so quick to pick fights and cause chaos. This was not something that was going to last, regardless of what you might have done differently. 

[MaxxNY]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Why did you so willingly attach yourself to someone you hardly knew, and build up so many future plans without a solid foundation?

Expat, you are right. I was skeptical at first considering the fact that we just met, there were some insecurity issues and she was from another country. However, as we continued talking on daily basis she came across as very genuine. She seemed to have very strong family values and it felt like her driving force was to build that with me. Us spending time together, going on road trips, and getting to know each other in person seemed to only solidify that. On the flip side, I did not expect her to give up on the whole thing so easily and that probably caused me to panic and cling to it rather than look at things rationally. I know you cant judge someone until Sh** hits the fan, and I only had good times to go on. Believe me, I am not the one to take my defenses down easily, but that is how she got around mine, just being open here....and yes, I will be the first one to admit I feel like I got totally mindfuc**ed

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

 However, as we continued talking on daily basis she came across as very genuine. She seemed to have very strong family values and it felt like her driving force was to build that with me. Us spending time together, going on road trips, and getting to know each other in person seemed to only solidify that.

That's the thing, though - you had very little real evidence to support the notion that she seemed anything. 3 weeks in person isn't really enough to gauge much. You'e only barely getting a snapshot of a person's true character at that point.  It's normal that people are on their best behaviour in the very beginning, which is why it's critical not to make grand future plans at that stage. You don't know yet what you're signing up for, as you learned. 

 

[MaxxNY]

Thank you Expat

[Watercolors]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:37 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

That's the thing, though - you had very little real evidence to support the notion that she seemed anything.

That is the precise problem with online communication. The deception factor is higher if your main conduit of communication is text messaging or emailing. Even video chatting is not as reliable as spending time with each other in person. Remember the days of yore, when there was no voicemail, no cellphones, no emails or text messages. If you liked someone, you went out on physical dates, talked to each other on the phone, or wrote each other letters. 

Unfortunately, you learned quickly who she really was, when she came to visit you and created all that drama with her temper tantrums. That's who she really is and she gave you a glimpse of her true character. I joked earlier that you two were like Ross and Emily from Friends. But you were also in a very 90-Day Fiancé scenario where you two barely knew each other. 

This is a good article about which online venues to use for online relationships. The take-away from it, is that genuine people are more honest on social media websites and tend to lie more on dating websites. And disingenuous people will just lie across all medial platforms. 

Stick with NYC. You're bound to meet your "Rachel" there. But if you do want to date someone who already lives abroad, don't doubt or second-guess yourself like you did with this young woman who clearly was not a very rational person. Always trust your gut. Your gut never lies. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed commercial url

[MaxxNY]

21 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Unfortunately, you learned quickly who she really was, when she came to visit you and created all that drama with her temper tantrums. That's who she really is and she gave you a glimpse of her true character.

Watercolors, thank you very much for your thoughtful and neutral approach. Expat, I probably do need a little bit of tough love, so thank you for your comments. We have been in NC for about 10 days now. Its tough, but I think time is the only way for me to heal

[Watercolors]

49 minutes ago, MaxxNY said:

Watercolors, thank you very much for your thoughtful and neutral approach. Expat, I probably do need a little bit of tough love, so thank you for your comments. We have been in NC for about 10 days now. Its tough, but I think time is the only way for me to heal

Hang in there buddy! 10 days is a good start for no contact. Every time you get the urge to wax nostalgic on your brief r/s, just remind yourself that you will not settle no matter what. If you give her a second chance, you are definitely settling. There's too many unknowns involved with her, that you don't need nor deserve to be faced with. You deserve to be happy and not have to apologize just b/c you took one week off of communication to get settled in your new place. Most rational adults would understand that, and not be bothered. You made the right choice to end things with her. 

[ExpatInItaly]

21 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

We have been in NC for about 10 days now. Its tough, but I think time is the only way for me to heal

You're doing well so far. And yes, time will certainly help you heal. 

[JTSW]

On 2/19/2020 at 2:41 PM, MaxxNY said:

In the mean time Im sitting here like an ass**le trying to figure out how to make things work. 

Don't.

Just let it go.

I feel like i know who this woman is.

There is another poster here on the forum, also in NY and had the exact same issues with a European woman.

She was highly manipulative and nasty (like this girl).

She made him feel like everything he did and said was wrong and she blamed him for everything.

He saw sense and put an end to it and you should do the same.