Never thought I'd be here.

[Husbandssecret]

19 hours ago, elaine567 said:

She is moving out with the kids?

Splitting kids 50/50. 

[Husbandssecret]

19 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Do you not see, that is an absolutely ridiculous promise to make. They are married. She is his wife. They share family, friends, children together. Of course they are going to travel together - vacation together, go to funerals together, etc... It’s absolutely bizarre to me me that you would expect him to promise, and keep his promise, not to travel with his wife and his children.

It’s much akin to the OW and OM who get their nose out of joint when they learn their AP have been sleeping with their spouses - when they have promised that they would not have sex with their spouse. That person is their spouse - they are the ONE person with whom they are SUPPOSED to have sex.

If you want to move forward, you have to challenge your illogical/fantastical thinking. 

Obviously the illogical/fantastical thinking is what got me to this place. Relationships are difficult, add into it being an A and it makes it worlds more difficult. Nothing is black and white. Obviously it’s not as simple as do or don’t do because otherwise people wouldn’t fall into this and there wouldn’t be a support page for it. 

[Husbandssecret]

15 hours ago, Hip Pocket said:

I’ve read so many fallacies and stereotypes on this thread but are any of them coming from an OP other than a fOP who is now M? (Great post btw Prudence!). 

 

First, the secrecy does not make it exciting. The chemistry and the not living together makes it exciting. 

 

Second. You’ve got to stop using phrases like he’s “giving you breadcrumbs” and “is this AP behavior” because there are no cookie-cutter behaviors in relationships. You either trust him or you don’t but if you don’t then why be in a relationship with him? 

 

You are fighting between your feelings and your logic which is normal for anyone in any kind of R but then add in online “friendships” with people who are not in an affair and cannot relate. Notice how they are being tame with you, it’s because you’re so agreeable but if you weren’t, they wouldn’t. So I say listen to your gut with regard to MM. You know him, we don’t. 

 

I usually encourage OP to work on their R like any M person would but when the OW doesn’t have kids I do hate to see them waste their time on a MM. If he moves out, fine, but if you want kids you’ve got a ticking clock. Even if he gets a D is he willing to have kids with you? Or do you not want kids?

Hi hippocket,

thanks for your response. I definitely do want kids and this is partially why I’m at this crossroads. I’ve built a good R with my AP, and I decided to end things because I felt like our R was not heading in that direction because he wasn’t doing the things necessary for a D. But now he has come back with evidence of moving towards that goal and I’m stuck with what to do with that. I’m honestly internally struggling here. My heart says to stick with him and this will soon be over. We’ve talked about having kids and he wants to do this with me. My logic is telling me I may be getting led on- or at least to guard against that. Im not sure what to think of this because I know who he is as a person but I also know how the world can be and I’m trying to have realistic expectations. Your response is refreshing because you’re right, there are times I feel attacked and or judged on here because people basically tell you to remove yourself from the situation. Easier said than done. I know the love I have for him and I know the life we could have with each other when this is over. It’s just a matter of if he is actually moving along his D. We have had set time frames Or goals based on where life was going and he has moved those back now 4 times. I’m trying to find a balance between being supportive and not being walked on, and to be honest I don’t know where that line is because I’m an incredibly loving and understanding person which tends to be taken advantage of. That’s why I have turned to this forum, to gain insight on what others have experienced so that I can have some kind of reference. I know no 2 stories are the same. 

[Husbandssecret]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

What did the counselor suggest when you had your appointment?

I’m still on the waitlist but should be getting off of it next week and finally starting. I’ve been waiting on this one because she’s a trauma and relationship therapist along with being a life coach. I have a very difficult upbringing so I think her areas of expertise are a nice combination for me specifically. 

[Hip Pocket]

8 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Hi hippocket,

thanks for your response. I definitely do want kids and this is partially why I’m at this crossroads. I’ve built a good R with my AP, and I decided to end things because I felt like our R was not heading in that direction because he wasn’t doing the things necessary for a D. But now he has come back with evidence of moving towards that goal and I’m stuck with what to do with that. I’m honestly internally struggling here. My heart says to stick with him and this will soon be over. We’ve talked about having kids and he wants to do this with me. My logic is telling me I may be getting led on- or at least to guard against that. Im not sure what to think of this because I know who he is as a person but I also know how the world can be and I’m trying to have realistic expectations. Your response is refreshing because you’re right, there are times I feel attacked and or judged on here because people basically tell you to remove yourself from the situation. Easier said than done. I know the love I have for him and I know the life we could have with each other when this is over. It’s just a matter of if he is actually moving along his D. We have had set time frames Or goals based on where life was going and he has moved those back now 4 times. I’m trying to find a balance between being supportive and not being walked on, and to be honest I don’t know where that line is because I’m an incredibly loving and understanding person which tends to be taken advantage of. That’s why I have turned to this forum, to gain insight on what others have experienced so that I can have some kind of reference. I know no 2 stories are the same. 

You’re right, no two stories are the same but I do think there’s a lot to be said for taking advice from those in a similar situation as opposed to those who are not. 
 

And caving in to stereotypes won’t help. 
 

I used to be a lot how you described yourself but have learned to advocate for myself when necessary. It sounds like you’re beginning to do that now.
 

Yes, there are steps for your MM to take in order to prove he’s getting a D but keep in mind most MM take a very long time to D because it’s not easy for them to unravel a family. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you, it just means it’s stressful and time consuming not to mention his self identity and comfort zone are all being challenged. But it can happen. Just don’t push too hard because he may not be quite ready and he’ll just resent you in the end. But when he’s ready to do it on his own that shouldn’t happen. 
 

I think that balance you are looking for can be achieved if 1) you allow more time and 2) he accepts that you’ll back off (if you need to) until he is completely free. Some men need to know there’s a soft landing waiting for them or they won’t do it but you have to do what’s right for you. And he needs to respect that. Again, it’s about balance. 

[BaileyB]

If you are prepared to twiddle your thumbs while you wait for this man to end his marriage, that’s your decision OP. Just don’t waste your life waiting for a man who makes false promises, be prepared that he may decide on any given day that he wants to go back to his family because many do, and know that it will take years, not months, for happiness and bliss - as he settles his legal and financial affairs with his wife, settles his children, and gives his family and friend’s time to adjust before introducing another woman. That’s just the reality of the situation. 

[S2B]

You said you look forward to the life you could have when this is over...

honey, it is never over, never.

i have been divorced 15 years and there are situations where we both have to attend. Weddings, funerals, graduations etc

don't think it will be “over” with his exW.

[Hip Pocket]

6 hours ago, S2B said:

You said you look forward to the life you could have when this is over...

honey, it is never over, never.

i have been divorced 15 years and there are situations where we both have to attend. Weddings, funerals, graduations etc

don't think it will be “over” with his exW.

I’m sure she knows what over means. And I’m sure you know she knows that. But I suspect she loves him enough to go through all that with him just like the millions of second Ws the world over. 

[Husbandssecret]

7 hours ago, S2B said:

You said you look forward to the life you could have when this is over...

honey, it is never over, never.

i have been divorced 15 years and there are situations where we both have to attend. Weddings, funerals, graduations etc

don't think it will be “over” with his exW.

Right I’m aware of what that means I guess I meant more along the lines of through this phase of things. I understand that having kids with someone means they will be in your life forever in some way with children life events but I’m also supportive and understanding of that. 
 

@Hip Pocket thank you for understanding what I meant and your input. The balance thing is tough and something I will definitely have to figure out for myself. I know that D and settling things can take a long time and I know my biological clock is ticking. If things end civilly then it has the potential to get us to the point in our relationship that I would like to be sooner. There’s just a lot to consider. I have spent so much time invested in this and certainly don’t want to “waste” more time. But I sure do love him. 
 

update: starting therapy Friday so I’m on the road to some clarity. 

[Husbandssecret]

Hi everyone, 

I just wanted to give more of an update as I continue to internally (and stupidly) struggle lately. I haven't seen xAP for 2 weeks since he showed me that proof of rent. Mostly because he has been siginificantly picking up his time at home (he does the underground thing maybe once a year but this does feel different this time). But now this week he continues to add more to the story. Now all of a sudden he's told his friends that D is happening (which he previously hid any idea of marital distress from his friends out of "embarrassment"), he's meeting with lawyers, and he says that she had furniture for her new place sent to the house. Here is my theory of why things are happening the way they are (of course he may be completely lying to me to manipulate me back into OW position or to keep stringing me along)

Theory: he may not have necessarily intended for things to end right now with her. Maybe eventually he really did want them to end but I think he has been dragging his feet out of fear of the unknown-would his finances/kids/house all be secure? I think he intended to drag this on for as long as he possibly could because he was scared of losing his steady life. It has nothing to do with me nor does that demonstrate a lack of love for me. But he probably has pulled away (purposely or subconciously) as he continued his relationship with me which likely has now led to BS being unhappy and wanting to initiate D. 

Now I feel like I am at this crossroads. His D looks like it really is happening. And I love him so very much. Like I have said before, I believe we have the potential to have a very happy life after D, minus some hiccups along the road. But part of me feels angry, betrayed, broken, resentful, towards him and this situation. He told me today he can't believe how quickly things are falling into place now that things are rolling. I'm sitting here thinking WTF DUDE THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS. Also a small part of me feels like this is happening with or without him, meaning, he never would have left if she hadn't initiated it. I can't shake this feeling of "winning by default" for lack of better terms. To be honest, he's said things since last fall that made me feel like he was maybe digging his heels in deep into the mud and things probably would have ended sooner but he wouldn't let them. I think there is a possibility that HE is the one that didn't want a divorce and not the other way around. I am trying not to read too much into it and have been blaming it on his fear of losing stability but then also part of me wonders if there is more behind him not wanting to leave, such as him still being in love with her or something like that. 

To be honest, I am sort of at this point where I want something clean that doesn't have all these complications to it. Does it ever seem like things get to a point of being too messy and you realize it might be better to start off fresh? I don't want to make it seem like I'm ditching him now that things are moving in the direction I have been begging him to move them in but I also wonder if its too little too late and that the damage is done. Is that an immature way to look at things? Is this a reasonable way to feel? I'm trying to figure out how to move forward and how to approach him with this in a way that is constructive/productive. I just need to find a way to move forward with my life, whether thats with him or completely new. Has anyone else struggled with this feeling, specifically someone who was an AP but eventually made it to the other side? 

[BaileyB]

50 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

To be honest, I am sort of at this point where I want something clean that doesn't have all these complications to it. Does it ever seem like things get to a point of being too messy and you realize it might be better to start off fresh? 

To be honest, he may be feeling the same way. Many married men feel this way when they finally leave their wives. Perhaps, he is wanting to move from her house to yours. Its hard to say...

One of my favourite sayings on this board - recently separated/divorced men don’t make great boyfriends. No person makes a good partner after a breakup. Everyone needs time to process their feelings. But particularly after ending a marriage - a relationship that is usually a long relationship, very intimate, lots of history... Then there are the logistics - lawyers, divorce settlements, custody decisions, settling finances, setting up a new home, and on, and on, and on it goes. It is a time of transition, a time of stress - not a time to make decisions or make a new commitment. 

So if he does leave and you want to stay, let him get his own place. Give him time. Date him. Let him stand on his own. Develop a normal relationship with him. Take your time. If it’s meant to be, it will be. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by BaileyB

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said:

To be honest, I am sort of at this point where I want something clean that doesn't have all these complications to it. Does it ever seem like things get to a point of being too messy and you realize it might be better to start off fresh? I don't want to make it seem like I'm ditching him now that things are moving in the direction I have been begging him to move them in but I also wonder if its too little too late and that the damage is done. Is that an immature way to look at things? Is this a reasonable way to feel? I'm trying to figure out how to move forward and how to approach him with this in a way that is constructive/productive. I just need to find a way to move forward with my life, whether thats with him or completely new. Has anyone else struggled with this feeling, specifically someone who was an AP but eventually made it to the other side? 

I feel for you I really do. Now that things are happening I think it is only natural that you feel like this. I often wonder what I would do or how I would feel if my xmm ever divorced and wanted to get back together (he left, spent a year with me, then went back ). Tbh I don’t think he would ever divorce BS unless she instigated it because he has told me on many occasions he wanted her to leave him now so that he wouldn’t have the guilt feelings, his sons wouldn’t blame him again etc. He could walk away knowing that BS was happy with the split and then he wouldn’t feel bad that he was the one to break up the family again.  Blah blah blah !!! His thinking is so distorted but that’s how MM think. 
So I get how you are feeling and I understand. I think it might be a good idea to keep your distance and as BaileyB said give him time to deal with the end of the marriage all on his own. Live on his own, stand on his own two feet. It seems like you have been his emotional crutch for a very long time. He needs to be a big boy and deal with the D himself. Only then will you have a better outcome than my relationship with XAP and hopefully yours will not be tempted to return as soon as things start to get difficult. 
thinking of you. You have support here. Xo 

[S2B]

Why would you purposely choose to be his #2? As his OW or as his GF after his WIFE divorced him?

he didn’t want the divorce. His wife is initiating it! Doesn’t that show you everything about his lack of character?

he never intended to make your relationship a reality... 

why would you settle for this guy? 
he is the guy who wants a wife AND a GF... ya... no thank you.

you deserve better.

he NEEDS you hanging around to be his backup plan. 
why are you even talking to him?
 

[Beca L]

3 minutes ago, S2B said:

Why would you purposely choose to be his #2? As his OW or as his GF after his WIFE divorced him?

he didn’t want the divorce. His wife is initiating it! Doesn’t that show you everything about his lack of character?

he never intended to make your relationship a reality... 

why would you settle for this guy? 
he is the guy who wants a wife AND a GF... ya... no thank you.

you deserve better.

he NEEDS you hanging around to be his backup plan. 
why are you even talking to him?
 

I agree with your point but I can empathise with @Husbandssecret  and see both sides.  If you are in love with someone and they lie and con you into believing that they are doing right by you and they’d much rather be with you but life is complicated and they can’t be with you right now. Then finally they tell you they are divorcing you can’t quite believe it and yes she may be settling but it’s very hard to switch off those feelings. Sometimes it’s hard to see the person you describe in front of you. You so want them to be the person they promised they would be to you. It’s tough and sometimes you have to just go through the making mistakes because ultimately you have to learn your own lessons. So many people will tell her what she should be doing ie  ‘walking away’ etc but she has to want to do it for herself. 

[S2B]

Yes I realize that but it’s an illusion.

and it’s based on his lies.

his wife is divorcing him! He isn’t divorcing his wife!

big difference! And all more reason to tell him to take a hike!

even through divorce - he didn’t choose the OW... he would still choose to be married to his wife.

ya know... that just isn’t good enough!!!

and it shows everything about him that’s just icky.

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

To be honest, I am sort of at this point where I want something clean that doesn't have all these complications to it. Does it ever seem like things get to a point of being too messy and you realize it might be better to start off fresh? I don't want to make it seem like I'm ditching him now that things are moving in the direction I have been begging him to move them in but I also wonder if its too little too late and that the damage is done.

I think only you can decide whether the "damage is done" or not, and I'm certainly not able to call which one's pushing for divorce from my keyboard perch, but one thing I do know in terms of "baggage":

IF the kids feel like they "should" have stayed together, and IF the kids ever get wind of the affair and feel that "you broke up their family" (rightly or wrongly) they are likely to have a VERY hard time accepting you, if ever.

So that is something to consider as this moves forward, if you try to stay with him.

"Clean slates" have their appeal.

[Sinful]

On 2/18/2020 at 5:21 PM, Husbandssecret said:

His actions were telling me that he didn’t want forever (pushing me away, staying married) but his words made me feel like he was in love. But maybe that is because he was conflicted internally

You can't let people conn you with words. Actions speak louder than words. People can fake it for a long time, but eventually they will show themselves to be a phony (as with my ex who should win an academy award for her performance with me). Not saying this is the case with your MM, but just saying be careful. Watch and observe, and the true answers will reveal themselves to you.

 

[Beca L]

39 minutes ago, Sinful said:

You can't let people conn you with words. Actions speak louder than words. People can fake it for a long time, but eventually they will show themselves to be a phony

Great, love this. It is so true. I’ve learnt this lesson myself. They will tell you the most wonderful things about you to your face, email or text yet their actions are the complete opposite. Actions speak so much louder than words !!!! 

[S2B]

Words are easy. Changing the action is what makes life different.

what has HE taken action on that’s changing  his life/future?

Edited March 16, 2020 by S2B

[Husbandssecret]

Hey all! I hope you are staying healthy and safe during this weird time. I just wanted to give an update and get some feedback. I moved into a new place because I wanted a new beginning. My old place held so many memories with AP and just needed to be free of that. AP and I have been going back and forth since February. Yesterday I had had it because I wanted to have my new place feel like home and not associated with lies/sneaking around so I told him that I wanted to take a step back and see if him and BS actually get separated which he’s been telling me they would be doing  “very soon” since January. He insists now that they are separating in the next 2 weeks but that the pandemic has made that postponed and insists that we stay together until the end of the month. He says give him the end of the month and if they haven’t separated by then then he would leave me alone. My response was that I don’t understand if it truly is a few weeks why us taking a step back for a few weeks is a bad thing. He keeps saying that if we take a break now it will ruin things etc. I just don’t understand why taking a break would be a bad thing. Especially since it’s “just a few weeks away”. I think this might be a tactic to draw me back in and then once April is done he still won’t be separated but he’ll have another excuse to keep dragging me along. That’s the only reason I can think of as to why he’s trying SO hard for me to not take the break. Anyway I hope this makes sense. I am standing strong and told him to come find me when it’s all over but I just needed to write down some thoughts to help digest what he is doing/saying as of late. 

[Difficultstuff]

52 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I think this might be a tactic to draw me back in and then once April is done he still won’t be separated but he’ll have another excuse to keep dragging me along. That’s the only reason I can think of as to why he’s trying SO hard for me to not take the break. 

Yes, probably. If you 'take a break' maybe he's worried you'll finally assert your independence - as you have begun to do by moving to a new place - and that he'll lose his ability to control you. It very much sounds like he doesn't want you to be 'free'. 

[Allupinnit]

I'd say give him the two weeks.  Like you said you've put this much time (4 years) into it already, what's two more weeks?

That said I highly doubt this pandemic will all have been resolved in the next two weeks so be ready for him to tell you he has to wait til summer.  Can you wait for him that long, knowing he's holed up with his wife and family?

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Allupinnit

[Allupinnit]

 

Also you said he showed you "rent for an apartment" - what does that mean, he showed you an application or was it a lease?  Leases begin on specific dates so I'm curious as to why he's waiting another two weeks...?  What date did the lease begin?  

Edited April 6, 2020 by Allupinnit

[Husbandssecret]

He showed me a bank statement that said the management company and rent on it. That came out on 3/1. He’s just trying to get the timing right with kids and work. He wants to be able to be off work for the transition and doesn’t want the kids’ grades to be affected so he said he was trying to get them settled with distant learning since the COVID outbreak. 
 

As for the waiting... he’s used so many excuses up to this point that I’m having a hard time being empathetic as to how this pandemic will delay things for their separation etc. I’m just tired of feeling like I’ve been strung along. For the last 2 years it’s been “okay we’re doing it this summer” and then “we will definitely be separated by this month” and then in February he told me that it was “just a few more weeks”.

He doesn’t want me to wait a couple weeks, he wants me to stay with him to the end of this month. He’s constantly pushing back the date and that’s why I think that if I just take a step back and let him hash this out on his own while I continue therapy and try to heal from the damage this situation has done to me, I don’t see what the big deal is. I guess I’m being a little stubborn because he always calls the shots and I’m the one that is compromising each time he puts the date back. Now that I’ve offered an alternative solution “it will ruin us”. How does being apart for a couple weeks ruin us? That’s what I can’t wrap my head around. It feels off like it’s his way or not at all. Stay with him now or don’t get it ever. I am pushing hard against it because it feels off. 

[Starswillshine]

6 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

How does being apart for a couple weeks ruin us? That’s what I can’t wrap my head around. It feels off like it’s his way or not at all. Stay with him now or don’t get it ever. I am pushing hard against it because it feels off. 

It's just a manipulation. Because he never intends to leave. If he planned to leave, he would understand and just get it done as quick as possible. But he doesn't. If you stand your ground and say you are giving him space to his life together, and call when he is out of the house... well, that means he'll never be calling you. All manipulation.