Never thought I'd be here.

[pepperbird]

14 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Honestly? Mine is telling me that she got out in a hurry because SHE needed it, not him. And now that she’s gone he’s clinging onto me for dear life. 

How do you feel about that?

[kxpxsc3]

Husbandssecret - like many OW on this site, I also lost years to my MM hoping and wishing that I would be the exception to the rule and we would ride off into the sunset.

My MM ended up actually separating from his wife after I put my foot down and ended the affair.   But a year later of being together - I had to end it because guess what?  His divorce, the one he told me was in the works when he left a year ago - is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.  In fact, I come to find out 8 months later that last summer they decided "for all practical intents and purposes" not to get a divorce at all, and he didn't tell me.  In his head, why would I be upset about that?  I already used to accepting less than I deserved for 3 years......

He didn't see it as something I needed to know because its "just a piece of paper."  Yea, sounds like someone who is trying to keep his options open and cake eat.  And the entire year was honestly REALLY tough, there was nothing sexy and loving about it.  His BS was very angry at him leaving (she knew about the affair but was willing to stick it out for the kids, finances, family life, etc) and made sure to let him know on a weekly basis how he hurt her and the kids.  He got depressed about hurting his kids who were having a hard time with their dad leaving.  He was at the house virtually every night until late doing homework with his kids, hanging out with them - while I was alone waiting for him at his apartment and hoping that in just a few weeks it'll all get better and we can have the committed relationship that I so badly wanted with him.   Anything his wife needed, he was there - something broke in the house, the kids were upset, etc.  In summary, he STILL didn't make me or my feelings a priority, not in the way that I envisioned or wanted.

When I found out that he's not planning to follow through on divorce, I wasn't even angry - I was DONE.  

I read all the stories on LS but honestly, none of it mattered because I was still convinced it was a relationship worth saving and I was going to fight for my "return on investment" goddamnit.

I had to learn the hard way that it's not worth it at all.  After lots of heartache and working on myself, I FINALLY realized I deserve more.  Haven't looked back since.  Yea there are times I'm still sad or miss him, but I miss the IDEA of him and the sheer MOMENTS of happiness that we had. Please believe me, even if you MM leaves, he will NEVER show up for your relationship or be there for you, not in the way you want or deserve. 

[Beca L]

8 hours ago, kxpxsc3 said:

I had to learn the hard way that it's not worth it at all.  After lots of heartache and working on myself, I FINALLY realized I deserve more.  Haven't looked back since.  Yea there are times I'm still sad or miss him, but I miss the IDEA of him and the sheer MOMENTS of happiness that we had. Please believe me, even if you MM leaves, he will NEVER show up for your relationship or be there for you, not in the way you want or deserve. 

so impressed that you haven't looked back and are continuing to work on yourself. Of all the stories I've read on here yours is the one most similar to mine. My xmm did start the divorce process yet when the reality of his marriage being over and his family unit broken he panicked and went straight back to his supposedly 'terrible and miserable life'. The only difference was that our year together was very special and truly happy. Did your Xmm go back to his wife after you left him ? Are they still together? Hope I can get your strength and get on with my life.

Husbandssecret please try to see what is really happening here. I'm not sure his wife really has left and I think he's just keeping his options open. You need to ask more questions, tell him you need the truth. Ask him about the tooth brush etc . 

[kxpxsc3]

8 hours ago, Beca L said:

so impressed that you haven't looked back and are continuing to work on yourself. Of all the stories I've read on here yours is the one most similar to mine. My xmm did start the divorce process yet when the reality of his marriage being over and his family unit broken he panicked and went straight back to his supposedly 'terrible and miserable life'. The only difference was that our year together was very special and truly happy. Did your Xmm go back to his wife after you left him ? Are they still together? Hope I can get your strength and get on with my life.

Husbandssecret please try to see what is really happening here. I'm not sure his wife really has left and I think he's just keeping his options open. You need to ask more questions, tell him you need the truth. Ask him about the tooth brush etc . 

I'm not sure if he went back because I've been NC for a 2 months now. Honestly, it doesn't really matter because I'm trying to focus on me and I know that finding out if he did or didn't  (either way) would set me back on my healing path.  I think it's very likely he may have or might go back,  perhaps out of guilt and his wife constantly making him feel bad for leaving,  or because he is very close with his kids.  But if that is the case it's not the type of man I want to be with anyway - someone who waffles and flops back & fourth.

I still don't have a good attitude towards dating or finding love, I'm not out there even trying.  I still have a bitter taste towards men and I have accepted that I might be forever alone, but that it's better than being with someone who is not sure about me and unwilling to be an equal partner in the relationship.

[Beca L]

1 minute ago, kxpxsc3 said:

I'm not sure if he went back because I've been NC for a 2 months now. Honestly, it doesn't really matter because I'm trying to focus on me and I know that finding out if he did or didn't  (either way) would set me back on my healing path.  I think it's very likely he may have or might go back,  perhaps out of guilt and his wife constantly making him feel bad for leaving,  or because he is very close with his kids.  But if that is the case it's not the type of man I want to be with anyway - someone who waffles and flops back & fourth.

I still don't have a good attitude towards dating or finding love, I'm not out there even trying.  I still have a bitter taste towards men and I have accepted that I might be forever alone, but that it's better than being with someone who is not sure about me and unwilling to be an equal partner in the relationship.

I thought it had been longer than 2 months. I agree about the dating thing, I feel the same. It’s been 2 years since xmm went back but it has been back and forth over the years. I was finally done just before Xmas and I’ve been in NC since. His kids had left home but something pulled him back there. We are not in school because of lock down so I don’t see him so that helps but the feelings and hurt don’t seem to go away. 
Either of our scenarios could play out if husbandssecret hangs around waiting for her MM. Her best bet is to walk away now and let him do all the hard work, the back and forth without her. Then when he’s really available, free and divorced with his own place. Then coming looking for her and start again. However I’m not sure that will ever happen. He sounds like a very week man who can’t even be on his own for one night ! 

[S2B]

How are you doing OP? What’s the latest?

[Husbandssecret]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:15 AM, kxpxsc3 said:

Husbandssecret - like many OW on this site, I also lost years to my MM hoping and wishing that I would be the exception to the rule and we would ride off into the sunset.

My MM ended up actually separating from his wife after I put my foot down and ended the affair.   But a year later of being together - I had to end it because guess what?  His divorce, the one he told me was in the works when he left a year ago - is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.  In fact, I come to find out 8 months later that last summer they decided "for all practical intents and purposes" not to get a divorce at all, and he didn't tell me.  In his head, why would I be upset about that?  I already used to accepting less than I deserved for 3 years......

He didn't see it as something I needed to know because its "just a piece of paper."  Yea, sounds like someone who is trying to keep his options open and cake eat.  And the entire year was honestly REALLY tough, there was nothing sexy and loving about it.  His BS was very angry at him leaving (she knew about the affair but was willing to stick it out for the kids, finances, family life, etc) and made sure to let him know on a weekly basis how he hurt her and the kids.  He got depressed about hurting his kids who were having a hard time with their dad leaving.  He was at the house virtually every night until late doing homework with his kids, hanging out with them - while I was alone waiting for him at his apartment and hoping that in just a few weeks it'll all get better and we can have the committed relationship that I so badly wanted with him.   Anything his wife needed, he was there - something broke in the house, the kids were upset, etc.  In summary, he STILL didn't make me or my feelings a priority, not in the way that I envisioned or wanted.

When I found out that he's not planning to follow through on divorce, I wasn't even angry - I was DONE.  

I read all the stories on LS but honestly, none of it mattered because I was still convinced it was a relationship worth saving and I was going to fight for my "return on investment" goddamnit.

I had to learn the hard way that it's not worth it at all.  After lots of heartache and working on myself, I FINALLY realized I deserve more.  Haven't looked back since.  Yea there are times I'm still sad or miss him, but I miss the IDEA of him and the sheer MOMENTS of happiness that we had. Please believe me, even if you MM leaves, he will NEVER show up for your relationship or be there for you, not in the way you want or deserve. 

I really appreciate your story and this has been my fear! He’s already set himself up for the exact scenario you laid out. She’s left but not really “gone” because he sees the kids at her place to help with homework, help put kids to bed. I’m trying to be patient because this is the transition period and obviously it’s hard but at the same time do I want him at her place until 9 at night on days she has them so he can help with bedtime? I don’t want to take away his time with kids but at the same time there has to be a balance.

[Husbandssecret]

8 hours ago, S2B said:

How are you doing OP? What’s the latest?

Thanks for checking in! Things have been okay. Still dealing with the weird mind f*** of being in an affair. I confronted him about the bathroom thing and he thought I was being ridiculous but showed me the bathroom. All her clothes were gone except a few items. All the toiletries are gone as well (didn’t see any obvious female stuff). The only thing I thought was weird and what I again noticed was that there are a ton of pictures still in the house. Ones of her and her kids, things that her kids made for her, etc so to me I can’t imagine being a mother and not taking those precious items to my new home. He claims she’s just not really into the parent thing and that she’s been weird through all this, even agreeing to give him the majority of the time with kids. But I just can’t wrap my head around that part. The pictures look like her kids love her and she loves her kids. I’m not a parent but I hang onto drawings from my close friends’ children and my nieces. Again my gut tells me something is off but it could be totally reasonable. I grew up with a friend who’s mother wasn’t really present and the father took on the role of primary parent. But when you move out, don’t you take special pictures with you? Beautiful photos of you and your children? 

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

But when you move out, don’t you take special pictures with you? Beautiful photos of you and your children? 

I would. 

Reading your post, I just can’t help but think that something has really gone wrong when you are having to ask a man to show you proof that his wife has left the house. That you are looking at her pictures on the wall and wondering why she didn’t take them. To me, if I was in that marriage, that would be such an invasion of privacy. It just feels so wrong.

To say it again, what you and kxpx are/have learned - recently separated/divorced men don’t make good boyfriends. They are not able to move on to form new and healthy relationships because they still have very real obligations to their families. Is it healthy that she moves out and he spends every night in her home doing homework with the children - I would suggest that it’s not. But, it shows you where their emotional and practical priorities are - with their families. 

What’s wrong with giving the guy time to sort his life out before moving on to another serious relationship? The fact that he doesn’t want to do that - doesn’t see that this is unfair to you - is a HUGE red flag. When I met my boyfriend, he was two years separated, signing divorce papers. We both thought enough time had passed but guess what - he pulled the plug. He had the wisdom to know that while he was ready to date, he was not ready for a serious relationship. He had the insight to know that it was not fair to me, to continue dating if he knew he couldn’t give me what I wanted. He was kind enough to be honest with me, and we split after dating for a few months. Truth be told, I think he would have preferred to keep seeing me as a “friend” or “casually dating.” I knew that it was not what I wanted so I set a boundary, as I did not think that it was fair that he got exactly what he wanted while I did not. He took another year and half to sort out his life - his home, his custody situation, his finances - before coming back to me to say, he was ready. He did the responsible and kind thing, but not everyone has the moral fortitude to do this. My partner now says, if we had stayed together it would never had lasted. We are now living together and building our dream home.

My point - your MM needs to take time to get his stuff together. I doubt that he will do this, he is more likely to get back with his family than live life on his own... I think he knows it, which is why he is trying to fast track you into her place beside him in his marital bed. I think you know it, because you stay when everything inside you is telling you this is not a good idea. If it’s meant to be, it will still be after he does the hard work to divorce and stand on his own two feet. If it doesn’t pan out, well... it would never have worked for you anyway... not in a healthy way. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

On 2/13/2020 at 9:34 PM, Husbandssecret said:

The marriage was dead because she had an affair and continued to lie about it.

My guess he is still in love with her, despite everything.

[kxpxsc3]

5 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I really appreciate your story and this has been my fear! He’s already set himself up for the exact scenario you laid out. She’s left but not really “gone” because he sees the kids at her place to help with homework, help put kids to bed. I’m trying to be patient because this is the transition period and obviously it’s hard but at the same time do I want him at her place until 9 at night on days she has them so he can help with bedtime? I don’t want to take away his time with kids but at the same time there has to be a balance.

Hey husbandssecret - what you describe is exactly what I went through so I totally get it.  After a year of being separated it hadn't changed much, I also recall saying to myself "it's a transition period, in a few months it'll get better."  Some of the total meltdown situations subsided, yes, with his kids being upset that their dad was moved out. But usually there was only 1 night of the week he didn't see them and all others he was there until 9-10 every night.  Their extended family lives outside of the country and he always said he felt responsible to be there and help out since they have no one else around.

In the beginning it was OK although I made a lot of excuses for it but over time, it became really lonely. Most of my friends were moving on in their relationships - moving in together, engagement, marriage, a few of them starting families.  And I started to feel like this is all it's ever going to be with him - which was confirmed by his decision not to divorce.  He was going to be there at the house every night while I waited for him at his place, still his secret girlfriend.  

I now feel pretty behind in my personal life while I'm still working on healing and moving on from basically a dead-end relationship  (I'm a few years older than you but was around your age now when I started seeing my MM).  

Wish you the best OP, keep us posted on how things unfold.

[pepperbird]

34 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

Thanks for checking in! Things have been okay. Still dealing with the weird mind f*** of being in an affair. I confronted him about the bathroom thing and he thought I was being ridiculous but showed me the bathroom. All her clothes were gone except a few items. All the toiletries are gone as well (didn’t see any obvious female stuff). The only thing I thought was weird and what I again noticed was that there are a ton of pictures still in the house. Ones of her and her kids, things that her kids made for her, etc so to me I can’t imagine being a mother and not taking those precious items to my new home. He claims she’s just not really into the parent thing and that she’s been weird through all this, even agreeing to give him the majority of the time with kids. But I just can’t wrap my head around that part. The pictures look like her kids love her and she loves her kids. I’m not a parent but I hang onto drawings from my close friends’ children and my nieces. Again my gut tells me something is off but it could be totally reasonable. I grew up with a friend who’s mother wasn’t really present and the father took on the role of primary parent. But when you move out, don’t you take special pictures with you? Beautiful photos of you and your children? 

she's just not into the parent thing?
bulllsh*t.     sorry for the expletive, but it's well deserved.
 

[Husbandssecret]

26 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I would. 

Reading your post, I just can’t help but think that something has really gone wrong when you are having to ask a man to show you proof that his wife has left the house. That you are looking at her pictures on the wall and wondering why she didn’t take them. To me, if I was in that marriage, that would be such an invasion of privacy. It just feels so wrong.

To say it again, what you and kxpx are/have learned - recently separated/divorced men don’t make good boyfriends. They are not able to move on to form new and healthy relationships because they still have very real obligations to their families. Is it healthy that she moves out and he spends every night in her home doing homework with the children - I would suggest that it’s not. But, it shows you where their emotional and practical priorities are - with their families. 

What’s wrong with giving the guy time to sort his life out before moving on to another serious relationship? The fact that he doesn’t want to do that - doesn’t see that this is unfair to you - is a HUGE red flag. When I met my boyfriend, he was two years separated, signing divorce papers. We both thought enough time had passed but guess what - he pulled the plug. He had the wisdom to know that while he was ready to date, he was not ready for a serious relationship. He had the insight to know that it was not fair to me, to continue dating if he knew he couldn’t give me what I wanted. He was kind enough to be honest with me, and we split after dating for a few months. Truth be told, I think he would have preferred to keep seeing me as a “friend” or “casually dating.” I knew that it was not what I wanted so I set a boundary, as I did not think that it was fair that he got exactly what he wanted while I did not. He took another year and half to sort out his life - his home, his custody situation, his finances - before coming back to me to say, he was ready. He did the responsible and kind thing, but not everyone has the moral fortitude to do this. My partner now says, if we had stayed together it would never had lasted. We are now living together and building our dream home.

My point - your MM needs to take time to get his stuff together. I doubt that he will do this, he is more likely to get back with his family than live life on his own... I think he knows it, which is why he is trying to fast track you into her place beside him in his marital bed. I think you know it, because you stay when everything inside you is telling you this is not a good idea. If it’s meant to be, it will still be after he does the hard work to divorce and stand on his own two feet. If it doesn’t pan out, well... it would never have worked for you anyway... not in a healthy way. 

I really like all the things you pointed out here. I’ve had a similar view as well, let him get things settled and if we were supposed to be together we would find our way back when he was actually in a place to give me what I deserve. It sounds like that’s how it worked for you and it sounds like it worked for the better. I fear that by sitting by his side as he figures this out I will have wasted more time. I will say he’s been much more attentive and I’ve seen a lot more of him since she left but it’s unfair to have me sit on the side while he gets his life together. I get frustrated because he loves me and claims I am the love of his life, yet he didn’t even think twice about how dragging things out for 4 years was wasting a large part of my 20s. It comes across as selfish instead. Granted I have had every opportunity to walk away and I keep going back so I really can’t say much. I am afraid of losing him because when we are together it’s amazing. But I’m also worried that he can’t be consistent and I’m not sure how reliable he will be as he is in this transition stage. You are right that newly separated men do not make good boyfriends.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Husbandssecret

[Husbandssecret]

2 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

she's just not into the parent thing?
bulllsh*t.     sorry for the expletive, but it's well deserved.
 

He’s never flat out said it but he’s built this narrative of her that she’s a loving mother but just not as devoted as one would expect I guess

[pepperbird]

2 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I really like all the things you pointed out here. I’ve had a similar view as well, let him get things settled and if we were supposed to be together we would find our way back when he was actually in a place to give me what I deserve. It sounds like that’s how it worked for you and it sounds like it worked for the better. I fear that by sitting by his side as he figures this out I will have wasted more time. I will say he’s been much more attentive and I’ve seen a lot more of him since she left but it’s unfair to have me sit on the side while he gets his life together. I get frustrated because he loves me and claims I am the love of my life, yet he didn’t even think twice about how dragging things out for 4 years was wasting a large part of my 20s. It comes across as selfish instead. Granted I have had every opportunity to walk away and I keep going back so I really can’t say much. I am afraid of losing him because when we are together it’s amazing. But I’m also worried that he can’t be consistent and I’m not sure how reliable he will be as he is in this transition stage. You are right that newly separated men do not make good boyfriends.

Have you two tried counselling together?

[Husbandssecret]

Just now, pepperbird said:

Have you two tried counselling together?

Not yet but it’s definitely been part of the discussion

[BaileyB]

33 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I fear that by sitting by his side as he figures this out I will have wasted more time. It’s unfair to have me sit on the side while he gets his life together.

I am afraid of losing him because when we are together it’s amazing. 

HS, when he told me that he thought he was ready but he had decided that he was actually not ready for a serious relationship and didn’t know when he would be ready for a serious relationship, I knew that I was out. Was I disappointed, absolutely. I was afraid of losing him too because when we were together, it was amazing. I wanted to explore it further, and I was really hurt that he didn’t feel the same way. 

But, I knew that I had to walk away because I wanted a life partner, not a “friend” who got all the benefits of companionship while not actually committing to anything more. I wasn’t about to waste my time “dating” an unavailable man, time that could be spent searching for a man who was available and could give me the kind of relationship I wanted. So, I thanked him for his honesty and told him exactly that - I wanted more and I was going to go out and find it. Now, it turns out life had other plans for me... in that year and a half, I didn’t date much at all but built a new home and travelled in Europe. Still, it was a great time in my life! 

Dare I say it, I think I earned his respect by telling him that I would not be strung along indefinitely... But more than that, as disappointed and hurt as I felt by the whole situation, I had my own self respect. And, that is what mattered to me the most. I could deal with losing the man. I was not about to lose my self respect. 

No, it’s not fair of him to ask you to sit on the side while he gets his life together. It hasn’t been fair that he’s asked you to do just that for the last four years. But, you’ve done it. 

I have to say, I agree with Elaine. I think this is a very codependent relationship with a long and complicated history... I tend to believe that he actually loves his wife, or at the very least - they have unfinished business with each other. I don’t know that it’s a healthy relationship, given some of the things you have shared about this man. But, I don’t see this changing, even with the different address. 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

28 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

He’s never flat out said it but he’s built this narrative of her that she’s a loving mother but just not as devoted as one would expect I guess

Sorry, I’m being fasicious but I’m sure she has a similar opinion... he is a loving father, just not as faithful as one would expect...

With respect, that’s a huge assumption to make. Surely you have read the posts on this board written by kind and compassionate BS, who have shared that the men they were married to shared a similar kind of very untrue narrative with their OW. Men who want sex with women who are not their wives know just what to say to get it... If he told you anything different, you likely wouldn’t entertain the thought of a sexual relationship, or any other kind of relationship, with the man. 

As a woman, and a mother, I can’t think of a statement (even if it’s just a feeling you get, a narrative he has built) that a man could make that would be more hurtful... to his wife, the mother of his children. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[lifeoflies]

25 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Sorry, I’m being fasicious but I’m sure she has a similar opinion... he is a loving father, just not as faithful as one would expect...

after everything, why do you expect a man to be faithful?

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, lifeoflies said:

after everything, why do you expect a man to be faithful?

I wouldn’t expect this man to be faithful. I think he’s proven this is not a realistic expectation for him. 
But, it is a requirement in my relationship...

[Allupinnit]

Yeah dude they haven't even filed yet, her photos are still all over the house and he's still spending nearly every night with them anyway.  

You have a lot more fortitude than me - I would feel so weird and bad about being in that house.  You know how family homes all have that certain smell - that's them.  Why can't he just come over to your place?  

I'm still curious as to why he proved he got an apartment for himself but then SHE moved out with the kids?  That doesn't add up at all.  

I'd also urge you to look ahead - his W is NOT going to be pleased to know you never ended your affair and are now spending time in that house.  How many kids does he have?  I think the sh*t storm headed his way his just beginning.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by Allupinnit

[lifeoflies]

36 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Dare I say it, I think I earned his respect by telling him that I would not be strung along indefinitely... But more than that, as disappointed and hurt as I felt by the whole situation, I had my own self respect. And, that is what mattered to me the most. I could deal with losing the man. I was not about to lose my self respect. 

Good for you.  Of course you earned his respect when you found yours.  Men are really a dime a dozen.

[lifeoflies]

Have you guys ever wondered if these men aren't sniffing around this site?  i have seen one instance that this might be happening

[lifeoflies]

5 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I wouldn’t expect this man to be faithful. I think he’s proven this is not a realistic expectation for him. 
But, it is a requirement in my relationship...

I think that the expectation that any man will be faithful defies logic

[BaileyB]

27 minutes ago, lifeoflies said:

I think that the expectation that any man will be faithful defies logic

I disagree. My guy told me early on that he has never cheated on a woman, and he never will. He has given me no reason to doubt, if anything... he wants to spend too much time together.  

Nothing in life is ever guaranteed, but I feel like he is a good bet. My father was the same - completely devoted to my mother from the day they met. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BaileyB