Never thought I'd be here.

[S2B]

1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said:

Thank you all for your input! It’s been very helpful. Today I’ve been struggling a lot with guilt. Guilt for wasting my time but then also I’ve been having guilt questioning if I made the right decision. I know deep down this is right for me and that there is a huge chance he’s nowhere close to ending his marriage, but I’m in my head today wondering what would happen if I would have hung on a little longer.

I think the problem is I keep comparing this to a healthy relationship. He just informed me his grandfather died. I know this can be a form of manipulation but I keep playing out the what if’s. What if his grandpa just died and I left him in the middle of a very terrible time? If it’s truly meant to be and he was really in love with me the way he says, is my leaving now forgivable? 
 

During our relationship, many times he would say that I focus too much on how the situation affects me and not enough on how it affects him and us. He said I tend to lean towards a negative perspective. I used to think he was so relaxed and wasn’t having as difficult time as me with it because he was better adapted, but now I wonder if it’s because he didn’t really care as much as I did. He just cared about limping it along longer. I’m struggling with what was real and what was tactics. It may not matter but that’s where I’m at right now...

He’s banking on you feeing lonely and guilty. Don’t do that! He should feel guilty.

and his family member died? Well it’s his WIFE who plays the role of being supportive, not the OW! Yes, it’s manipulation and better reasons to block him from contacting you!

he isn’t leaving! If he was leaving he would have taken steps to do that 4 years ago!

hes contacting you to try and get you to be his OW again, that’s all!

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said:

During our relationship, many times he would say that I focus too much on how the situation affects me and not enough on how it affects him and us. 

Says the man asking you to put your life on hold for the last four years while you give him everything that he wants...

[BaileyB]

48 minutes ago, Syre17 said:

To suggest or imply that you’re somehow “abandoning” him in light of his grandfathers death is nonsensical. 

It is rather nonsensical - especially considering that his grandfather was probably of an advanced age and he has his wife and his entire family available for support. When he asks for your “support” what he is doing is laying on a fair amount of “guilt” hoping that can somehow encourage/convince/pressure you into assuming your position again... Don’t give him the satisfaction. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by BaileyB

[S2B]

Notice he didn’t contact you to tell you he filed for divorce? Moved out? 
he hasn’t done ANY action to change anything!

tell him not to contact you unless his divorce is FINAL! Any thing else is just manipulation to make you feel bad and him feel better!

why do you let ANY man speak to you the way he degrades you? He’s a jerk!

[Husbandssecret]

All really great points!! I left this part out but when I initially met him, I was actually engaged. It was an awfully abusive relationship which left me vulnerable I’m sure to be in this situation but I ended my relationship before anything became romantic between us. I left with literally nothing to my name, a car full of belongings and $400 in my bank account. I was in the heart of working on my graduate degree and still managed to end my relationship. So I am strong enough to get through this and I need to remind myself that. 
 

I also need to remind myself that he’s not any closer to divorce than he was 4 years ago. He keeps swearing they’ve made progress that I can’t see but will see soon enough. Why do people do this? Don’t they realize at some point it all comes to a head? 
 

To go off what @Syre17 had to say, I experienced the same thing. 2 summers ago my father passed away very unexpectedly. I was incredibly close to him and talked to him multiple times a day. My AP was on vacation with his family for the 4th of July and I was at my fathers funeral. He consoled me with a few nice emails and phone calls. When I did see him in person he’d help me through some of the emotions but it wasn’t much. I brought that up to him when he said he’d never leave me in a time of need. He said that I was creating a narrative to fit what I was feeling right now And that I knew he was only on the trip for the kids. He often referred to my crying and asking him to move things along as me going down a “rabbit hole” and that I didn’t consider how my breakdowns were affecting the relationship. He also pointed out when I ended things that we often talk about how this situation is affecting me and we’ve only not discussed it recently because he’s been busy “dealing with the divorce arrangements”. Is it safe to say that in all of these situations if they don’t leave/make moves to leave early on they probably never intended to? I’m trying to wrap my head around being in love with someone who is this manipulative and quite frankly mean to me. It took me so long to see it. I would often recede my “rabbit hole” and apologize like I was the one who was wrong and blowing things out of proportion. 

[Syre17]

54 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

And that I knew he was only on the trip for the kids. 

One of my favorite excuses the AP will offer up... I was told the same thing. It was as though any time my AP needed a “free pass” or an excuse, it was often “I’m doing it for my daughter.” 

Let me ask...did he ever suggest to you that “you didn’t understand because you didn’t have kids...?” Im going to bet so. I say that because the AP will (as clearly evidenced here and many cases) pull out every card. And, whether they consciously do it, or not, or inherently know that they’re doing it, they’re often master manipulators in getting what they want and their needs met.

 

[S2B]

This relationship is also abusive!

i hope you see that.

i suggest counseling for you, so that you never, ever choose another abusive man again!

this guy is just.... terrible and mean!

Edited February 15, 2020 by S2B

[Husbandssecret]

13 minutes ago, Syre17 said:

One of my favorite excuses the AP will offer up... I was told the same thing. It was as though any time my AP needed a “free pass” or an excuse, it was often “I’m doing it for my daughter.” 

Let me ask...did he ever suggest to you that “you didn’t understand because you didn’t have kids...?” Im going to bet so. I say that because the AP will (as clearly evidenced here and many cases) pull out every card. And, whether they consciously do it, or not, or inherently know that they’re doing it, they’re often master manipulators in getting what they want and their needs met.

 

He never said I didn’t understand because I was very quick to back off whenever the kids were talked about. I am someone who advocates for kids and he knew this with my rough upbringing etc that I was always all for kids having the best life and not being affected by parents’ drama. He did say the whole “I can’t believe I expedited ending my marriage for you, putting my kids at risk” and “I can’t believe you were someone I was going to spend the rest of my life with and introduce to my kids”. That second 1 hurt but it was in the heat of the breakup. I know it’s never okay to say hurtful things but I’ve found myself saying not nice things in the heat of the moment. Got a good laugh out of the expedited divorce thing because if this is the expedited version I’d hate to see the drawn out one. The fact is my parents had a nasty divorce With lots of court time and it didn’t take anywhere near 4 years. I want to say it took 1. Granted they didn’t do things amicably. His go to excuse for everything is that he’s doing it for the kids.

[Husbandssecret]

Just now, S2B said:

This relationship is also abusive!

i hope you see that.

i suggest counseling for you, so that you never, ever choose another anusive man again!

this guy is just.... terrible and mean!

Emailed my therapist today who is setting up a waitlist, should be in by the end of the month! I agree I definitely need to get to the root of why I’ve bounced from 1 unstable relationship to the next. 

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Husbandssecret said:

I definitely need to get to the root of why I’ve bounced from 1 unstable relationship to the next. 

Yes, this is what often happens, vulnerable, damaged. wounded often abused women fall into the first arms offered and that can sometimes be the arms of a married man.
They overlook the "complications" as they so glad to find a nice man who is apparently non abusive. They dream he is "the one" and "love" quickly follows.
But as they have been "trained" to tolerate a load of bad behaviour, they put up with stuff a normal woman would run a mile from.  
This man has rejected you and rejected you for 4 long years and you are still there waiting for him.
That's not "normal" behaviour.
Move far away from him and seek the help you needed ;long before got involved with him.
Guys who abuse ruin perfectly good women,

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

I also need to remind myself that he’s not any closer to divorce than he was 4 years ago. He keeps swearing they’ve made progress that I can’t see but will see soon enough. Why do people do this? Don’t they realize at some point it all comes to a head? 

To be fair, you’ve bought this story for four years now. You’ve given him little reason to think that he couldn’t do this... his motivation to do such a thing, who knows - sex, ego, excitement? But he has done it if for no other reason than you have allowed it.

As to the fact that he’s not any closer to divorce - even if he was, you don’t want him anyway... You don’t want a man who can look a woman in the eye, sleep next to her in bed, travel with her and have sex with her - all while lying to her about the fact that he is also having sex with another woman. That’s not a good guy - he is no prize. Nor do you want a man who would manipulate and take advantage of a young woman the way he has taken advantage of your youth and vulnerability - again, that’s not a good guy. Not a man that you want to trust or build a life together...

Edited February 15, 2020 by BaileyB

[Husbandssecret]

That’s very true. I’ve watched how he manipulates her into believing he’s being faithful, and how good he has been at fooling her. It’s absolutely sill to think he’s not doing the same to me. When the chemicals are circulating in your brain you are so clouded and think you are different, the relationship is different. But the reality is that the person is the same in both relationships. And that fact he can do those things should be concerning to me rather than something I just push away as if it doesn’t exist. 

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

The fact he can do those things should be concerning to me rather than something I just push away as if it doesn’t exist. 

Bingo! You got it - and so many women struggle to accept this fact. They are so desperately wanting to win their man that they never stop to consider that the man they have been pining for, the man who lies to his wife and children every single day, is not actually a good man. Not a man worth “winning.”

Edited February 16, 2020 by BaileyB

[S2B]

When someone shows you who they are - believe them. This is who he is. An abusive man who preys in vulnerable women and talks down to them to squish them and tricks them into thinking they don’t deserve better.

he talks to you to guilt you and shame you!

i don’t see one attractive thing about any man like that - and I hope you realize just what a monster her is.

add to that - that he’s a guy who cheats on his wife and lies easily and regularly to her... there’s no redeeming qualities in any man like that.

he doesn’t deserve one more minute of your precious time or energy! Any further conversation is designed to manipulate you and make you feel bad so that he feels better.

that is a sick and toxic jerk.

why would you want that? There’s so many men that are available and nice. Make room in your heart for a kind and decent guy.

[CloudyHead]

I didn't read all the responses and follow up to your original post.  I decided to end things with MM when I started focusing on me and not him.  I grew tired of the excuses that he was leaving his wife.  MM wasn't there for me during significant events in my life.  I felt I was putting my life "on hold" waiting for him.  Now it took me about 2 years to reach this point.  We still communicated but stopped meeting.  About 8 months later MM abruptly left his wife and drove to my house with suitcases.  Opening my door and inviting him back into my life was the  absolute worst mistake I've ever made.  

[Syre17]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

I didn't read all the responses and follow up to your original post.  I decided to end things with MM when I started focusing on me and not him.  I grew tired of the excuses that he was leaving his wife.  MM wasn't there for me during significant events in my life.  I felt I was putting my life "on hold" waiting for him.  Now it took me about 2 years to reach this point.  We still communicated but stopped meeting.  About 8 months later MM abruptly left his wife and drove to my house with suitcases.  Opening my door and inviting him back into my life was the  absolute worst mistake I've ever made.  

@CloudyHead I made a comment to the OP that if my former AP showed up on my doorstep now, I’d send her away.

I am very curious, and might be good for the OP and others to hear, why it’s been the worst mistake you’ve ever made? If you don’t mind sharing. 

[PhoenixRising8]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:34 PM, Husbandssecret said:

One side of me says that I’ve paid my dues and the time came and went, another promise broken, and that I need to be done. The other part of me is so in love with him that I don’t want to give up on him, especially in his time of need. I don’t want to hurt him while he’s going through stressful life events. I know there’s never a good time, but he is the love of my life and I can’t wrap my head around leaving him during such a stressful time. If I hang on for another couple months, will we get the happily ever after I’ve been waiting for? He says he has all these trips for us planned for the end of summer and fall where we will be “out in the open and doing this the way we have wanted”. with how things have gone I’m hesitant to believe him. And with how things have been going, there’s this feeling in my gut that they are far from being physically separated.

I am feeling so torn. I think I know the right thing to do but it’s so hard to actually go through with ending things. Any advice on how to move forward? I’ve thought about telling him that things are done and when he is actually divorced and if he still wants us then he can prove it by coming after me. I guess I’m in this weird spot where I know very well his actions aren’t matching up with his words. How did you all decide it was time to end things?

Things ended when my guilt over what I was doing to be complicit in MM's hurting his family became clear to me and overwhelmed me. I couldn't be with him without talking about it. That took the shine out of our affair. The truth, in my opinion, is that you are the emotional bandaid that allows him to stay in his marriage, which means he doesn't have to be the bad guy or split the assets. Meanwhile he has you to provide the emotional and physical connection we all crave. He hasn't hit rock bottom so there is no motivation to make any life altering changes. Nothing will happen until he is miserable enough for him to do that on his own. Even the most conflict avoidant will take action when they are miserable enough. Any reason he gives you for deferrals is an excuse to keep the status quo because it is comfortable and easy for him. Make YOU your first priority and end it. Yes it will hurt but you will survive. Let him hit rock bottom or not. Only then will you truly know what has been in his head and heart. If he loves you, he will become increasingly miserable without you and end it on his own without you pushing, prodding and waiting. If he never does, he hasn't been miserable enough despite what he says. My latest thread, which I will update shortly, may give you some insights in to the conflict avoidant man who cheats. 

[CloudyHead]

@Syre17 - When MM showed up at my house, part of me was thrilled that he left his wife for me . . . FOR ME!  I viewed that as the ultimate act of MM's love for me.  We were together 5-6 years. I was very much in love with him.  There were good moments.  MM repeatedly cheated on me.  He went into counseling.  I went to counseling with him.  He made commitments in counseling then broke them within weeks.  He ruined every holiday with his comments and actions.  My self-esteem was completely shredded.  I couldn't understand why someone who said he loved me and left his wife and adult children for me could treat me this way.  One day he came home and said the most horrible things to me and my kids.  My kids were upset and crying by what he said.  I was stunned.  I told him to leave.   Within a month another woman left her husband for him.  

I wasted several years of my life on him.  That's time that I can never ever get back.  Mind you I was in my early 40's with a career and my own business.  I am a very strong person but this affair shattered me.  I think that MM left his wife and pursued a relationship with me because I was a strong person and he relied on me to get him through his divorce.  He unexpectedly came to my business about 1 1/2 years afterwards.  When I saw him and talked to him, I felt relief that he was no longer in my life.  

I still think about him.  He did a great job of attacking my self-confidence.  I try to focus on the lessons I learned from that time in my life.  When you are in an affair, you live in a bubble.  Everything is great in the bubble.  But you never really know that other person when you're in the bubble.  

[Syre17]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

@Syre17 - When MM showed up at my house, part of me was thrilled that he left his wife for me . . . FOR ME!  I viewed that as the ultimate act of MM's love for me.  We were together 5-6 years. I was very much in love with him.  There were good moments.  MM repeatedly cheated on me.  He went into counseling.  I went to counseling with him.  He made commitments in counseling then broke them within weeks.  He ruined every holiday with his comments and actions.  My self-esteem was completely shredded.  I couldn't understand why someone who said he loved me and left his wife and adult children for me could treat me this way.  One day he came home and said the most horrible things to me and my kids.  My kids were upset and crying by what he said.  I was stunned.  I told him to leave.   Within a month another woman left her husband for him.  

I wasted several years of my life on him.  That's time that I can never ever get back.  Mind you I was in my early 40's with a career and my own business.  I am a very strong person but this affair shattered me.  I think that MM left his wife and pursued a relationship with me because I was a strong person and he relied on me to get him through his divorce.  He unexpectedly came to my business about 1 1/2 years afterwards.  When I saw him and talked to him, I felt relief that he was no longer in my life.  

I still think about him.  He did a great job of attacking my self-confidence.  I try to focus on the lessons I learned from that time in my life.  When you are in an affair, you live in a bubble.  Everything is great in the bubble.  But you never really know that other person when you're in the bubble.  

 

@CloudyHead Thanks for sharing and I can totally relate. 

I was with my former AP for about the same amount of time as you with yours. 

Your comment that your self-esteem was completely shredded really resonated with me. I’m not an individual who lacks confidence, in fact, I’ve been told that I ooze it, have an advanced degree, am in the top 5% of income earners in the U.S., was a model when I was younger and still got it “going on” looks and body wise in my 40’s, but it was exactly the same for me. I’m definitely an incredibly resilient and strong person, like you, but never in my life did I feel so beat down, or so low as far as my self-esteem was concerned.

While mine did eventually rent in an apartment, she’d spend as many nights back at her home and under the same roof as her H as the apartment. But I was always “welcome to stay there...” alone...go figure. Was just curious about the showing up on the doorstep because at one point, my ex AP got really weird at the apartment. Just her actions and my sense was that something was off gave me a feeling like she perhaps had another guy around, outside of me and her H. Anyway, I’ve always wondered what’d be like if two APs actually ended up under the same roof... 

[CloudyHead]

@Syre17 - MM wined and dined me - it was a real-life fairytale.  We both had work trips to the same city and met up there.  I was taken to an exclusive restaurant and when we arrived to the table, there was a large bouquet of my favorite flowers. He constantly told me how much he loved me.  He cried when our meetups ended because he didn't want to leave.  He had an apartment at one point as well.  Again, this occurred in a bubble.  Once we became a couple, I learned more about him, saw him interact with others, etc.  The cheating, the lying followed by the "I'm sorrys" - it was an emotional rollercoaster!  I was in a "fog" a good five months after our relationship ended.  I had to have no contact.  My self-esteem/self-confidence has improved greatly but there's still some work to do.  I hope you are in a good place!

[Husbandssecret]

11 hours ago, LilKatKat said:

Things ended when my guilt over what I was doing to be complicit in MM's hurting his family became clear to me and overwhelmed me. I couldn't be with him without talking about it. That took the shine out of our affair. 

I think we have been in that phase for the last 6 months. I can tell that he even began to get annoyed by me no longer being as shiny to him because all I could talk about was when he was going to leave and what the situation was doing to me. It got to the point where I just didn't like who I was. I was selling myself as this independent, single (to the world/friends/family), happy, genuinely good person. In realilty, I have been codependent, investing my time into a deadend relationship, and hurting other people without them knowing so. When I ended things I said that I need to be able to look myself in the mirror and be okay with who I am. I want the way that I have been selling myself to be who I actually am, which at one point I believe I was that. I just got a little lost. At the very beginning its easy to explain away the guilt, you find yourself making excuses because you are "star crossed lovers" who found each other at the wrong time. I don't think that exists anymore. 

[Syre17]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

@Syre17 - MM wined and dined me - it was a real-life fairytale.  We both had work trips to the same city and met up there.  I was taken to an exclusive restaurant and when we arrived to the table, there was a large bouquet of my favorite flowers. He constantly told me how much he loved me.  He cried when our meetups ended because he didn't want to leave.  He had an apartment at one point as well.  Again, this occurred in a bubble.  Once we became a couple, I learned more about him, saw him interact with others, etc.  The cheating, the lying followed by the "I'm sorrys" - it was an emotional rollercoaster!  I was in a "fog" a good five months after our relationship ended.  I had to have no contact.  My self-esteem/self-confidence has improved greatly but there's still some work to do.  I hope you are in a good place!

@CloudyHead Mine as well, the self-esteem and confidence! Took some time, but in a much much better place. My life is pretty well back on track which is good, because it, the A and trying to navigate all the BS surrounding it, was all consuming at times. 

I will say though, there’s still fallout and elements of it all that “haunt” me to this day. My last girlfriend, told me that she ran into some people, one or more of which either knew me, or of me (I have no idea who) and shared with her that I had had an affair and left my wife for the AP. I do accept responsibility for what I did and my part in the whole thing, but it stung hearing that. That and knowing that random people were talking about it...and the impact it had on me trying to make a clean and fresh start. We reap what we sow as it goes...

Edited February 17, 2020 by Syre17
Added user

[Husbandssecret]

1 hour ago, CloudyHead said:

@Syre17 - MM wined and dined me - it was a real-life fairytale.  We both had work trips to the same city and met up there.  I was taken to an exclusive restaurant and when we arrived to the table, there was a large bouquet of my favorite flowers. He constantly told me how much he loved me.  He cried when our meetups ended because he didn't want to leave.  He had an apartment at one point as well.  Again, this occurred in a bubble.  Once we became a couple, I learned more about him, saw him interact with others, etc.  The cheating, the lying followed by the "I'm sorrys" - it was an emotional rollercoaster!  I was in a "fog" a good five months after our relationship ended.  I had to have no contact.  My self-esteem/self-confidence has improved greatly but there's still some work to do.  I hope you are in a good place!

We met up in different cities and countries as well, and it felt amazing. But there were times even on these trips I would find myself being disappointed by him. An example is we obviously  didn't have opportunites to have dinner and drinks like normal couples do. So when we were on a trip, we sat at this fancy bar and ordered some really cool drinks. We sat at a small table together. While waiting for our drinks, he stepped away for a phone call. He left me sitting there with his full drink for 1 hour. I ended up paying the bill, drinking his drink, and leaving. I guess what I'm reflecting on is even when he had the opportunity to "wine and dine" me, he was still not respectful of me or my time. 

[Husbandssecret]

3 minutes ago, Syre17 said:

@CloudyHead Mine as well, the self-esteem and confidence! Took some time, but in a much much better place. My life is pretty well back on track which is good, because it, the A and trying to navigate all the BS surrounding it, was all consuming at times. 

I will say though, there’s still fallout and elements of it all that “haunt” me to this day. My last girlfriend, told me that she ran into some people, one or more of which either knew me, or of me (I have no idea who) and shared with her that I had had an affair and left my wife for the AP. I do accept responsibility for what I did and my part in the whole thing, but it stung hearing that. That and knowing that random people were talking about it...and the impact it had on me trying to make a clean and fresh start. We reap what we sow as it goes...

It for sure has social consequences if its ever discovered and I'm sorry that it still is following you. At least you can own up to it and hopefully it demonstrates to the next person you end up with that you have learned a lot about your mistakes and how healthy relationships should be. 

I've thought about how to face future relationships being that only 1 person in my life knows about the A. One part of me thinks being upfront and honest about it starts a fresh and clean relationship. But the other part of me thinks that this is my private journey. I guess we will see how to handle that as I cross that bridge. Right now I feel very anti-dating. I don't want anything to do with a romantic relationship. I know time will heal this. 

[pianomanwoman]

💋

You know, you could ghost him.  Block him.  NC for him and Grey Rock him.  I was ghosted by my MM for three months, and he was always ready for more action, no matter how much time went by.  He was not happy when I refused to be physical, and ended those meetings after an hour.  So now we are friendly.  I know he will never get a divorce.  It takes years, not months to forget, so stop listening to his B.S.  You have got so much support on Loveshack.  I know its hard.  Please don't cry.  Don't be his friend now, its too soon after the break up.  Trust me, after a while, when you are ready to end it you will look back and NOT want to be with him.  Hopefully you will meet a man who can give you all of his attention and love.  I look at my EXMM as a guy who cannot help me out when I am down because he is married and unavailable.  His ghosting me was an easy way out for him, and he was always too busy for me in the affair, that has not changed, but I have a better life now, and brand new friends who want to fix me up with someone new.  It's been a slow process, because I loved him, my friends were supportive of me, and reading posts here helped me move on. Three years ago, I never thought I'd fall for that again. My heart was fully healed on my birthday last year, and all the little heartbreakers wished me a "happy birthday" on social media and I blocked one big loser who tried to friend request me hopefully forever!   Good luck to you once you wake up, resist the urge to hurt him, or contact him , because you are just hurting yourself and keeping the affair alive.