Never thought I'd be here.

[Husbandssecret]

New update: she is leaving him this weekend according to him. Something feels off in all of this. Like I tell him to leave me alone until she leaves and then of course he’s been pestering to see me because it’s “so close”. I really do believe it’s happening this weekend. He claims he has finally seen what this has done to me and he needed it to be done because he wasn’t okay with hurting me like this anymore. My gut is telling me that SHE left because SHE couldn’t take him anymore and that this happened to line up perfectly for him so he could sell it as “see after realizing how much pain this was causing you I fixed it, I have proven that you are a priority”. I’m working with my therapist to learn to trust my gut more and I can’t shake this feeling that he’s selling me that he pushed it along when in reality it sounds like she’s been stacking up things to leave him for a while now. It’s weird, everything is finally seeming to come together finally for us to be together but I think that I don’t want him anymore. The way things dragged out and now how this is going down I think I’ve started to see the real him and how manipulative he has been the entire time. And even if he does leave I don’t think I want to be with him for that reason. Has anyone seen posts Or have personal stories about the AP leaving and the relationship not being what they thought it was? I need to go with my gut but at the same time fear of losing someone I have an amazing connection with is keeping me clinging onto him. 

[Allupinnit]

@Husbandssecret - I was once in an abusive relationship and after two years of knowing it wasn't right I was one day just done with all of it and walked away - never looked back.  I didn't even cry for him.  Maybe you're stronger than you think.  

You can't trust what he says because it's been four years of the same.  If you dump him, you can guarantee he'll be begging his wife to work things out.  These men cannot be alone and tend to waffle back and forth.

It's so crazy how stories like this tend to follow the same trajectory, with the few outliers here and there (but even then I think they deep down despise how everything came together).

Women's intuition is powerful and I think you are right - she found out.  

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Has anyone seen posts Or have personal stories about the AP leaving and the relationship not being what they thought it was?

Why yes - in recent LS memory we had one where the MM left, moved in with the OW, and then went back to his wife. And another where an MM left, started a relationship with OW, and then started cheating on her. In fact, both those OP's contributed to your thread.

So, yes, I'd suggest you take all this with an EXTRA LARGE grain of salt.

Some people believe all MM's will lie to their OWs about everything. I think they're wrong, particularly at the start of an affair. But this guy? Nah...

My guess is your "gut feeling" is actually your rational brain kicking in and noting his past history, how inconsistent what he's saying and doing have been, and all the other factors, and realizing that you're just setting yourself up for serious hurt and betrayal of your own now that this has gotten "real". I'd say your rational brain is about 99.999% likely to be right in your particular case.

You mention a therapist. I'd suggest you consider exploring why you may have let this happen in the first place and  may be choosing unavailable men. You might discuss the concept of avoidant attachment with her and/or ask what she thinks "might be going on with you" if you haven't already.

FWIW, my advice would be to not only end this and find an available man (who isn't so likely to pull stuff on you), but also to have reasonable expectations going forward. The excitement of sneaking around, forbidden fruit, etc may be a big part of the "amazing connection" you feel. I think reality is that a strong but stable connection, along with realistic expectations and ability to agree to acceptable compromises while also ensuring your needs are met is what really drives many, if not most successful LTRs.

[BaileyB]

I can think of a couple of women who’s MM left their marriage to be with them, they bought homes together and lived together for a year or more, and the MM STILL went back to the wife. Some flip back and forth, back and forth... or want to go home and back to the way things were before, with the OW on the side. 

I can also think of a few women who “got their man” and then decided to end it, because by the time the MM left his marriage they had seen enough of his character to know that this man was not a good choice for a long term partner. 

I’d say the far more common would be that the OW finally get tired of waiting, and end the relationship when it becomes painfully clear that he’s not leaving his marriage... far more common. 

[elaine567]

Seems to me some younger guys who haven't been married very long may leave and set up another home with the OW, but older guys with long marriages are usually going nowhere unless there is a Dday and their wife throws them out. They are  never going to leave if they can help it.
Some can meet a very strong and determined OW and, she almost orders him to leave.
BUT most MM have too much to lose and if they can persuade the OW to stick around, then that is better than being seen as "the bad guy, the cad who split up the family...

[heartwhole2]

I think your gut is on the right track. If these men wanted to be the ones to end their marriages so they could be monogamous with the OW, the whole situation wouldn't exist. They start the affair because they want to and if they are emotionally invested and enjoying the idea of a future together, it all hinges on the wife ending things. A conflict avoidant person doesn't suddenly become decisive and take on the heat of ending a marriage.

This is assuming he's telling the truth about her leaving. It could all be a lie. Oh, she was definitely going to leave, but with the pandemic she just had to stay in the house, but really they're separated, believe him . . .

[Husbandssecret]

42 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

I think your gut is on the right track. If these men wanted to be the ones to end their marriages so they could be monogamous with the OW, the whole situation wouldn't exist. They start the affair because they want to and if they are emotionally invested and enjoying the idea of a future together, it all hinges on the wife ending things. A conflict avoidant person doesn't suddenly become decisive and take on the heat of ending a marriage.

This is assuming he's telling the truth about her leaving. It could all be a lie. Oh, she was definitely going to leave, but with the pandemic she just had to stay in the house, but really they're separated, believe him . . .

You’re totally right, I’m taking it with a grain of salt right now because I won’t believe it until I actually see it. That’s my thought process too. Why is this happening so fast now? If it was this easy and he wanted things to work with us why did it take almost 4.5 years for it to finally end? I can’t get past that. It’s like things were accelerated once I told him back at the end of January that we needed our relationship to move forward now or not at all. He claims that it was quick to push things forward now because he realized what this was doing to me but I am leaning towards it just being coincidence with the timing and that she’s fast tracked it because she’s finally done. I look back in the history of us and there’s multiple times (like others) that he kind of pulled away from me because his schedule got “busy” at the same time that he thought maybe she was catching on or maybe she was getting ready to finally divorce. It would be a few weeks of seeing him a lot less but then things would go back to normal. One would think that would have been the time to go ahead and end things but it’s almost like he pulled her back in. Keep in mind this has no evidence per se I’m more going off of theory here. 

[Husbandssecret]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Why yes - in recent LS memory we had one where the MM left, moved in with the OW, and then went back to his wife. And another where an MM left, started a relationship with OW, and then started cheating on her. In fact, both those OP's contributed to your thread.

So, yes, I'd suggest you take all this with an EXTRA LARGE grain of salt.

Some people believe all MM's will lie to their OWs about everything. I think they're wrong, particularly at the start of an affair. But this guy? Nah...

My guess is your "gut feeling" is actually your rational brain kicking in and noting his past history, how inconsistent what he's saying and doing have been, and all the other factors, and realizing that you're just setting yourself up for serious hurt and betrayal of your own now that this has gotten "real". I'd say your rational brain is about 99.999% likely to be right in your particular case.

You mention a therapist. I'd suggest you consider exploring why you may have let this happen in the first place and  may be choosing unavailable men. You might discuss the concept of avoidant attachment with her and/or ask what she thinks "might be going on with you" if you haven't already.

FWIW, my advice would be to not only end this and find an available man (who isn't so likely to pull stuff on you), but also to have reasonable expectations going forward. The excitement of sneaking around, forbidden fruit, etc may be a big part of the "amazing connection" you feel. I think reality is that a strong but stable connection, along with realistic expectations and ability to agree to acceptable compromises while also ensuring your needs are met is what really drives many, if not most successful LTRs.

Yes agreed, I’ve started to process why I went after someone like him with my therapist and definitely have a “type”. This isn’t the first toxic relationship I’ve been in but somehow I had convinced myself for the longest time it was the SITUATION that was toxic, not him. Now I’m starting to really doubt that and you’re right, I think there’s a reason I’m not excited about this glimmer of hope he’s offered. There’s something off about the way this is happening and I need to listen to that. It’s honestly like he can’t be alone and she finally had it with him, is leaving, and now he’s finally clinging to me for dear life. If that’s really the case this is not what I want. 

[Poppy47]

On 2/14/2020 at 11:02 AM, S2B said:

And when you said he went on vacation with his wife and family - I was expecting that...

wasn’t that a huge blow enough to wake you up and realize this guy is a lying sack of poo?

sheez, a guy prepping to divorce doesn’t go on vacation with his wife! 
 

he will use you as his OW until YOU say NO MORE! He is never gonna end this... he’s got TWO women serving all his fantasies and needs!

you want something to happen? Get honest with his WIFE! She deserves to know what a schmuck she’s married to!

I agree with this. xMM always said he would never end his affair with me and he didn't? Why should he..... he was grabbing all he could from two women. He was really living the dream and the one he loved was himself. It wasn't me and it certainly wasn't his wife. We were merely tool to ensure his comfort and happiness.

It took me many years to get out of that relationship. I would end it and he would somehow break down my barriers and come back.  the longer you stay, the more difficult it will be to disentangle yourself. 

I am probably old enough to be your grandmother so I wasn't looking at starting a family or marriage. You, on the other hand, are young enough to want all that. You deserve to be loved and have someone just for yourself.

I would not even consider telling his wife. That can backfire all too easily on you . 

Run away as fast as you can.

Poppy.

 

[heartwhole2]

17 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

Yes agreed, I’ve started to process why I went after someone like him with my therapist and definitely have a “type”. This isn’t the first toxic relationship I’ve been in but somehow I had convinced myself for the longest time it was the SITUATION that was toxic, not him. Now I’m starting to really doubt that and you’re right, I think there’s a reason I’m not excited about this glimmer of hope he’s offered. There’s something off about the way this is happening and I need to listen to that. It’s honestly like he can’t be alone and she finally had it with him, is leaving, and now he’s finally clinging to me for dear life. If that’s really the case this is not what I want. 

And you've shared all the manipulative and mean things he says. It's like he tries to browbeat you into believing him or doing what he wants. Even if he's really leaving her for you, that doesn't make him a healthy partner.

[Husbandssecret]

16 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

And you've shared all the manipulative and mean things he says. It's like he tries to browbeat you into believing him or doing what he wants. Even if he's really leaving her for you, that doesn't make him a healthy partner.

Agree with that for sure! I’m trying to determine if he’s a good partner now. I feel so confused and like I’m trying to determine if this is even what I want anymore. Now that we’re at the “end” I actually feel more anxious than happy. And I think it’s because I know deep down he hasn’t treated me right at all in this. 

[BaileyB]

37 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

Agree with that for sure! I’m trying to determine if he’s a good partner now. I feel so confused and like I’m trying to determine if this is even what I want anymore. Now that we’re at the “end” I actually feel more anxious than happy. And I think it’s because I know deep down he hasn’t treated me right at all in this. 

If it doesn’t feel right, it’s not right. 

And, it shouldn’t feel right... way too much water under this bridge to simply move forward together, as if the relationship developed normally...

Best advice, if you do decide to stay with this man - get yourselves to couples counselling. And, both of you should be in individual counselling. The issues that brought you together and brought about the demise of his marriage will not go away just because he finds himself cooking dinner for one or sleeping alone in bed at night. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by BaileyB

[Husbandssecret]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

If it doesn’t feel right, it’s not right. 

And, it shouldn’t feel right... way too much water under this bridge to simply move forward together, as if the relationship developed normally...

Best advice, if you do decide to stay with this man - get yourselves to couples counselling. And, both of you should be in individual counselling. The issues that brought you together and brought about the demise of his marriage will not go away just because he finds himself cooking dinner for one or sleeping alone in bed at night. 

Exactly. He wants/acts as if this just picks up like a normal relationship but there’s so much to work through. I have talked about counseling as an option for us to do together and he’s on board but like I said I need to mull over if I want to be with him. Clearly we have a lot to work on and I think it might be better to start fresh and just focus on healing myself right now. 

[Prudence V]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:11 AM, Husbandssecret said:

Exactly. He wants/acts as if this just picks up like a normal relationship but there’s so much to work through. I have talked about counseling as an option for us to do together and he’s on board but like I said I need to mull over if I want to be with him. Clearly we have a lot to work on and I think it might be better to start fresh and just focus on healing myself right now. 

Indeed. And, if you do decide you want to, what the terms will be. He’s assuming it will be on his terms, the way it is now, with him calling the shots. You need to decide what your own terms would be - what you would want from him as a partner. Perhaps that’s feasible, perhaps not. But simply falling into a full time relationship just because the BW is no longer around isn’t a good option. 

[Husbandssecret]

On 4/19/2020 at 1:23 AM, S2B said:

Did she move? You need to call his wife and see what’s really going on!

seriously, if it’s over with them you tell him you need to talk to her.

So she apparently moved this weekend. I told him that if it’s really done I wanted to try to verify so he told me to come over. I expected things to be gone, it is a little odd because it doesn’t look like really anything is missing. He said they bought her all new furniture. It’s odd to me because it looks like she’s just gone on vacation with the kids. I dk what to think. I sort of feel like he’s lying to me but then again I dk what he has to gain because I would eventually find out if she really didn’t move out? I dk, I could certainly try to talk to her but I’ve always leaned towards keeping her out of it because I never wanted it to negatively impact the kids. What are some of your thoughts? 

[Allupinnit]

She moved the kids out of the house with NO furniture?  LOL yeah right!

Come on, @Husbandssecret- he's not even GOOD at lying.  What happened to the apartment he apparently is paying rent to?  She probably DID take the kids to her parents' house to get away from him.  LOL. 

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life having this guy coming at you with "proof" of his lies that all amount to a pile of crap?  

[pepperbird]

On 4/16/2020 at 12:11 AM, Husbandssecret said:

Agree with that for sure! I’m trying to determine if he’s a good partner now. I feel so confused and like I’m trying to determine if this is even what I want anymore. Now that we’re at the “end” I actually feel more anxious than happy. And I think it’s because I know deep down he hasn’t treated me right at all in this. 

I think that when we're in a bad relationship, we all start to ignore our gut instincts. After a while, it gets to be really easy. We convince ourselves we're wrong, make excuses, etc. when we really should listen to that inner voice.
It sounds like you are starting to listen to yours. What is it telling you?

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said:

So she apparently moved this weekend. I told him that if it’s really done I wanted to try to verify so he told me to come over. I expected things to be gone, it is a little odd because it doesn’t look like really anything is missing. He said they bought her all new furniture. It’s odd to me because it looks like she’s just gone on vacation with the kids. I dk what to think. I sort of feel like he’s lying to me but then again I dk what he has to gain because I would eventually find out if she really didn’t move out? I dk, I could certainly try to talk to her but I’ve always leaned towards keeping her out of it because I never wanted it to negatively impact the kids. What are some of your thoughts? 

That horse left the barn so long ago it's three counties over by now.
In other words, they've already been impacted.

As for her leaving him? I can;t say whether he's lying or not, but what kind of a father would do this? " sorry honey that our marriage is over. Why don't you yank the kids up from their home and all their belongings and go somewhere else and I'll stay here".
That would be a pretty  crappy thing to do on his part.
 

Edited April 20, 2020 by pepperbird

[Husbandssecret]

28 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

That horse left the barn so long ago it's three counties over by now.
In other words, they've already been impacted.

As for her leaving him? I can;t say whether he's lying or not, but what kind of a father would do this? " sorry honey that our marriage is over. Why don't you yank the kids up from their home and all their belongings and go somewhere else and I'll stay here".
That would be a pretty  crappy thing to do on his part.
 

That’s the point. His house is the “primary home” for the kids which is why it looks like nothing was moved. The only “proof” I have is that he’s able to have me over without sneaking me in and out. I parked in the driveway, I walked in the front door. So he’s either gotten more risky and dumb when it comes to not hiding me and is lying to me, or she moved out, or there’s more going on. As for her taking the kids somewhere, she could definitely have taken them to a friends house or something. Hard to believe during the orders to stay home but who knows. He said that she just moved out and is living in the apartment that he previously showed me rent was paid on from their account. 

[Husbandssecret]

59 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

She moved the kids out of the house with NO furniture?  LOL yeah right!

Come on, @Husbandssecret- he's not even GOOD at lying.  What happened to the apartment he apparently is paying rent to?  She probably DID take the kids to her parents' house to get away from him.  LOL. 

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life having this guy coming at you with "proof" of his lies that all amount to a pile of crap?  

Supposedly they bought a bunch of new furniture for the new place as to not disrupt the primary home for the kids. 

[Husbandssecret]

41 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I think that when we're in a bad relationship, we all start to ignore our gut instincts. After a while, it gets to be really easy. We convince ourselves we're wrong, make excuses, etc. when we really should listen to that inner voice.
It sounds like you are starting to listen to yours. What is it telling you?

Yesss so true but I’m at the point that I’ve not trusted my gut so long that I don’t know what to think anymore. I feel so confused. My gut says I need to just get out of this mess and have a fresh start but the damn “promise” of being with someone I connect with so deeply seems within my grasp and it’s making me second guess everything. One could argue trust is not there which is necessary for a relationship and so therefore the relationship isn’t something I need to keep chasing. I’ve convinced myself that I need this big “Epiphany” like to catch him in a lie or something big for me to feel like it’s over. But basically it’s been a death of our relationship by a thousand cuts with all the mind f****** I’ve endured over the years. 

[BaileyB]

My partner divorced his ex-wife, he bought her out of the house because he wanted to stay in the house as the “primary residence” for his son. They share custody 50-50 but he wanted to maintain the stability of “the family home” for his son - for lots of reasons, not the least of which being that his ex-wife has some pretty significant mental health issues.

Anyway... he kept the house but she took... half of the furniture. All of the dishes. Half of the photos. All of the towels. The outdoor furniture (even though she now loves in an apartment). Do you see what I’m saying...

I respect that fact that they may be trying to keep consistency for the children, assuming they have indeed separated. But, to expect one spouse to move out, for her to take none of the furniture, and for him to stay in the “primary residence” with the children... this man who has been carrying on an extramarital affair in his spare time... that seems pretty unfair, don’t you think?

I don’t believe for a moment that they are on the path to divorce. Perhaps, she went to visit her mother for a while (even during the time of Covid). But seriously, I don’t know where you live but where I live - stores are closed. How did they manage to buy all new furniture, household items, and move this woman into an apartment during what is essentially, a period of lockdown? The logistics seem unrealistic. The ethics seem questionable, perhaps downright despicable.

Edited April 20, 2020 by BaileyB

[Husbandssecret]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

My partner divorced his ex-wife, he bought her out of the house because he wanted to stay in the house as the “primary residence” for his son. They share custody 50-50 but he wanted to maintain the stability of “the family home” for his son - for lots of reasons, not the least of which being that his ex-wife has some pretty significant mental health issues.

Anyway... he kept the house but she took... half of the furniture. All of the dishes. Half of the photos. All of the towels. The outdoor furniture (even though she now loves in an apartment). Do you see what I’m saying...

I respect that fact that they may be trying to keep consistency for the children, assuming they have indeed separated. But, to expect one spouse to move out, for her to take none of the furniture, and for him to stay in the “primary residence” with the children... this man who has been carrying on an extramarital affair in his spare time... that seems pretty unfair, don’t you think?

I don’t believe for a moment that they are on the path to divorce. Perhaps, she went to visit her mother for a while (even during the time of Covid). But seriously, I don’t know where you live but where I live - stores are closed. How did they manage to buy all new furniture, household items, and move this woman into an apartment during what is essentially, a period of lockdown? The logistics seem unrealistic. The ethics seem questionable, perhaps downright despicable.

I’m purely speculating because I don’t know what the home normally looks like but it just looked fully lived in which made me question if I could trust him or not about the move. He claims that pictures are gone and board games were split even (Weird I know) but honestly it looked like a normal amount of things in the house. There’s no shortage of pictures. He weirdly had me avoid the master bedroom and bathroom (which makes me think that things aren’t moved out like he claims). They have had the place/plan for her to move since feb (before all of this hit) and I recently moved myself so its definitely possible to go on with moving and getting furniture if you had planned for it before the pandemic. There are websites like wayfair etc that deliver furniture and she supposedly did something like that. I totally agree with you. That’s why I feel so torn! All of this could be true what he is telling me, but it could also be a huge lie which is what I’m trying to protect myself from. I ended things with him in February and now she’s suddenly moved out?? Why did it take over 4 years for you to start the process but the second I say I’m done with this you’re able to have her out within 2 months. That’s another thing that gets me. I WANT to believe him, but I don’t. The nature of his dishonesty to start/carry this relationship, the length of time, and how this all has been handled has now piled up and makes me question my whole relationship with him. 

[BaileyB]

I understand, you’ve invested a lot of time and energy into this relationship... it must be hard to consider walking away now, when it appears that you are so close to getting what you want.

BUT, don’t you deserve a life partner who you can say definitively, without hesitation, doesn’t live with another woman? Someone who invites you into his bedroom, encourages you to keep a toothbrush in his bathroom, wants you to sleep in his bed and wake next to him in the morning...

He invited you to his house, byut would not let you see the two rooms that are most likely to have her belongings - her clothes in the closet, he toiletries in the bathroom...

The fact that you say - he could be telling the truth, but I just don’t believe him, I can’t believe him... tells me that you have a problem here. A relationship is nothing without trust. He has abused your trust so many times, for so long now... when does it end? How are you just expected to move forward, as if none of this had happened?

Dare I say it, but you are RIGHT not to trust a man who has lied to you repeatedly for years, who is STIll hiding things from you... Your protective instincts exist for good reason, listen to them.

Edited April 20, 2020 by BaileyB

[salparadise]

17 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

Why did it take over 4 years for you to start the process but the second I say I’m done with this you’re able to have her out within 2 months. That’s another thing that gets me. I WANT to believe him, but I don’t. The nature of his dishonesty to start/carry this relationship, the length of time, and how this all has been handled has now piled up and makes me question my whole relationship with him. 

I think you need to take more time so that you can get in touch with your own thoughts and emotions. If you really don't trust him anymore, then where does that leave you? If you take time to get clarity, which will give him time (and motivation) to get the divorce underway, those are objectives are in alignment. You can do things in your own interest, on your own schedule. My guess is that with the resentment you're voicing now, it's time to figure out where you are without his noise jamming the signal.