Blindsided

[zig]

So my wife and I got into an argument the other night over a toothbrush (yes a toothbrush)  She was using my toothbrush and I asked her not to because I thought that was gross.  That escalated and we ended up in a fight.

The next day I come home from work and she tells me that she thinks something is wrong with her and she needs to go see a therapist.  Basically she feels like she is over sensitive to every thing and gets offended too easily (she's like her dad who is extremely over sensitive to a fault).  Also she tells me that she's really selfish and feels like she is dragging me down.  Then she goes on to say how I would be better off without her so she thinks we should end the marriage if she can't get better.  I pointed out to her that it sounds like there is something wrong with me that she doesn't want to tell me.  It's like a g/f breaking up with a b/f in high school who says "it's not you it's me".  But she insists that it has nothing to do with me and tells me there is no other person in the entire world she would rather be married to.  Then goes on to tell me how she feels like she was never cut out to being a mom or a wife and that marriage for her was just a big mistake.  Sadly, she emphasized how much she doesn't like being a mom and wife and wished it was like it was in the old days when she could travel around and do whatever she wanted.

So I ask if we can go to consoling together and she says no because it has nothing to do with me but it's all her.  She'll go to therapy herself and if things don't get better with her then she'll try couples therapy and if that doesn't work then it's over.  I pointed out that she has children and the only thing that would be changing is me being out of the picture so it must be something with me.  She insists no.

So needless to say I feel completely helpless.  This is what bothers me the most out of all this.  She still hasn't gone to see a therapist and it has been a week.  I don't think she's going to either because now she is feeling a little better and will kick the can down the road.  If I say something to her she is going to get mad and say how I'm trying to tell her what to do.

I wanted to call her bluff the other day and offer to give her a new life.  I would take full custody of the kids and she can walk away and go travel the world but I didn't want to make a bad situation worse.  I really don't know what to do.  I'm seriously thinking about just going to consoling myself to help me navigate through this.

[Els]

3 hours ago, zig said:

I wanted to call her bluff the other day and offer to give her a new life.  I would take full custody of the kids and she can walk away and go travel the world but I didn't want to make a bad situation worse.  

Whoa there. What would you do if she accepted your offer, would you really be okay with that?

Counseling should be a requirement at this stage. At the very least it would help both of you get your thoughts in order.

3 hours ago, zig said:

Then goes on to tell me how she feels like she was never cut out to being a mom or a wife and that marriage for her was just a big mistake.  Sadly, she emphasized how much she doesn't like being a mom and wife

Didn't both of you talk about it before deciding to have kids? Was she on board then and simply changed her mind afterwards, or was she never really on board?

How old are the kids?

Edited February 15, 2020 by Elswyth

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, zig said:

 Sadly, she emphasized how much she doesn't like being a mom and wife and wished it was like it was in the old days when she could travel around and do whatever she wanted.

 

4 hours ago, zig said:

I wanted to call her bluff the other day and offer to give her a new life.  I would take full custody of the kids and she can walk away and go travel the world but I didn't want to make a bad situation worse.

I think she is telling you that you having full custody of the kids may be exactly what she wants.
By trying to manipulate the situation, you may find she will call you out on your bluff and you will be left with the kids, when she walks out the door...

 

4 hours ago, zig said:

 I pointed out that she has children and the only thing that would be changing is me being out of the picture

I don't think that is what she has in mind. Seems to me she has decided she either gets over this with counselling and/or she can accept the role of wife and mother, or she can't and she will leave the kids with you.
I don't think being a single mother is on her radar.
It would be difficult for you to leave your kids under the care of a woman who doesn't want them if it does come to divorce...

How old is she? If she feels she never had much of a life before having kids she may be feeling somewhat restless.
This may just be a blip, borne out of frustration and feeling trapped by kids, a temporary emotion, or this may be how she really feels and she is on the verge of leaving. 
Difficult to say.
Whether she wants out or not, she is definitely feeling the weight of the whole motherhood/wife role.
Maybe you need to step up a bit.

[d0nnivain]

Not only is she overly sensitive, she's a drama queen.  You share some of those histrionic responses immediately jumping to the conclusion that because she wants therapy to address her issue that the two of you need MC. Simmer down.  Let her address her stuff.  Not every hiccup in a marriage needs professional intervention.    

[Els]

10 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Not only is she overly sensitive, she's a drama queen.  You share some of those histrionic responses immediately jumping to the conclusion that because she wants therapy to address her issue that the two of you need MC. Simmer down.  Let her address her stuff.  Not every hiccup in a marriage needs professional intervention.    

It sounds to me more like she's repressed these thoughts for a while, they just surfaced when they had an argument. It happens quite often if one or both spouses didn't learn to communicate their feelings productively instead of bottling it up. I really doubt that it was REALLY just about the toothbrush.

[d0nnivain]

Perhaps but if she wants IC ,let her get that 1st or at least in conjunction with MC.  

[schlumpy]

I think form this moment on you need to think about a life without her and start planning it out. Maybe you will have the kids. Are they all yours?

She doesn't want to got to MC with you because it's much worse then you think. No one goes from an argument over a toothbrush to divorce unless they are clinging to the cliff or have already fallen.

I'm not saying be cruel or spiteful but she is no longer your concern. It's just you and the kids. Start acting like it.

If in the future she wants back in the game - make her earn every yard of it. 

[Poutrew]

Have legal papers drawn up: 1. legal revocation of parental rights and responsibility. Now it will be as if she never had any children.   2. Dissolution of assets, with 100% remaining with you. Now it will be as if she is foot loose and fancy free, to go where she wants, or blow wherever the wind takes her. You might want to sweeten the pot by giving her 10 - 20 thousand cash to make this happen.  3. Divorce papers -self explanatory. Your wife may not be having an affair, but somewhere, somehow, someone has been talking to her and filling her head with crazy ideas. At this point, call her bluff and help her to make it happen. I can't begin to tell you how many miserable husbands out there would fantasize over the situation you presently find yourself in, and would be tripping all over themselves to be able to help their 'loving wife' get started in her new life... 

[zig]

9 hours ago, Elswyth said:

Whoa there. What would you do if she accepted your offer, would you really be okay with that?

Didn't both of you talk about it before deciding to have kids? Was she on board then and simply changed her mind afterwards, or was she never really on board?

How old are the kids?

They are 3 and 5.  Yes we talked about having kids before we were even married.  She's the one who wanted kids, marriage, and family.  (me too)

If she accepted my offer (me taking full custody) I would accept it.

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

 

I think she is telling you that you having full custody of the kids may be exactly what she wants.
By trying to manipulate the situation, you may find she will call you out on your bluff and you will be left with the kids, when she walks out the door...

 

I don't think that is what she has in mind. Seems to me she has decided she either gets over this with counselling and/or she can accept the role of wife and mother, or she can't and she will leave the kids with you.
I don't think being a single mother is on her radar.
It would be difficult for you to leave your kids under the care of a woman who doesn't want them if it does come to divorce...

How old is she? If she feels she never had much of a life before having kids she may be feeling somewhat restless.
This may just be a blip, borne out of frustration and feeling trapped by kids, a temporary emotion, or this may be how she really feels and she is on the verge of leaving. 
Difficult to say.
Whether she wants out or not, she is definitely feeling the weight of the whole motherhood/wife role.
Maybe you need to step up a bit.

I hope it turns out to be that simple and strait forward.  I hope this is temporary.  I love my wife and kids but I know we can't go on like this and be happy in life either.  As far as me stepping it up... yes I'm going to be doing that like no other guy has before.  I'm going to fight but at the same time be ready for the worst incase life pulls the rug out from under me.

If she wants me to take full custody I'm willing to do that.  My problem is this... do I offer that to her now and risk pissing her off?  My first goal is for things to get better, not set things up to get out of the marriage.  I want my offer of taking the kids to take pressure off her and also maybe make her realize how irrational she is acting.  The intention isn't to sway her in that direction.  I want to sway her back to me.  In my gut I feel that making the offer would be a tactical error at this point.

 

She's mid 30's  

6 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Not only is she overly sensitive, she's a drama queen.  You share some of those histrionic responses immediately jumping to the conclusion that because she wants therapy to address her issue that the two of you need MC. Simmer down.  Let her address her stuff.  Not every hiccup in a marriage needs professional intervention.    

That's for the encouragement.  I need some hope :)

6 hours ago, Elswyth said:

It sounds to me more like she's repressed these thoughts for a while, they just surfaced when they had an argument. It happens quite often if one or both spouses didn't learn to communicate their feelings productively instead of bottling it up. I really doubt that it was REALLY just about the toothbrush.

Yes for sure.  Things have been building over time but it all points back to how she feels she's lost a lot of her freedom.  I told her I really wish she would have known she wouldn't like marriage before we got married so I wouldn't have done it.  She concurred and told me she was sorry and she didn't know it at the time.

 

[CAPITAL CROOK]

The call of the unlived life is a common thing in parents, it is what it is.

[elaine567]

6 minutes ago, zig said:

f she wants me to take full custody I'm willing to do that.  My problem is this... do I offer that to her now and risk pissing her off?

I wouldn't do that.
I think if you want to save things, then don't tell her that.

[zig]

5 hours ago, schlumpy said:

I think form this moment on you need to think about a life without her and start planning it out. Maybe you will have the kids. Are they all yours?

She doesn't want to got to MC with you because it's much worse then you think. No one goes from an argument over a toothbrush to divorce unless they are clinging to the cliff or have already fallen.

 

Yes, I need to take care of my emotional well being from this point forward.  It would be easy for someone to slip into depression going through this.  I'm not going to be a victim.

I also think she doesn't want marriage counseling for similar reasons.  She doesn't want to be told that the things she's going through are a part of life and being a responsible parent.  She actually does whatever she wants.  Goes on vacations all the time (usually with the kids).  I'm just saying on the outside looking in there are a lot of women who would love to be in my wifes position.  I think a marriage counselor would in so many words tell my wife to grow up.

[Fletch Lives]

Yeah, most men are blindsided by divorce, most don't use their intuition, don't read the signs until it's too late. She's falling out of love with you. Counseling might help. 

You probably took her for granted in one of these four areas: romance, respect, affection, or trust. Start treating her and dating her like you did in the beginning, and try to work on those things, and she might just fall in love with you again.

[zig]

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I wouldn't do that.
I think if you want to save things, then don't tell her that.

I won't then.  At least until I talk to a professional counselor .  I plan to make an appointment today.  But I'm also afraid to tell my wife I'm going to seek help.  See how fearful I am?  I'm afraid me going to see a counselor will offend her and tip her over the edge.  But in reality it should make her see how serious I am about this and no matter what we will see this through to the end.

 

  

[pepperbird]

I agree with the others that you need to prepare yourself. Hopefully, you two can get back on rack, but if not, at least you will be ready.
As for her crap about wanting her freedom back? She's a mother now, and if she'd prefer to live the single life she'd better figure that out damned quickly before she screws up her kids trying to sort herself out.

[Fletch Lives]

10 minutes ago, zig said:

I won't then.  At least until I talk to a professional counselor .  I plan to make an appointment today.  But I'm also afraid to tell my wife I'm going to seek help.  See how fearful I am?  I'm afraid me going to see a counselor will offend her and tip her over the edge.  But in reality it should make her see how serious I am about this and no matter what we will see this through to the end.

 

  

 - right, this is how is usually goes..... wife starts falling out of love with her husband, and gets grumpy and picks more fights........then the guy walks around on egg shells all the time, wondering when she will blow a cork again, it could happen any moment. 

[elaine567]

16 minutes ago, zig said:

 I'm afraid me going to see a counselor will offend her and tip her over the edge.

This is going to be very hard on you, whatever the outcome. 
She can't just drop a bombshell like this and expect you to just carry on as normal.

 

[preraph]

Being a single mother isn't going to make her any more carefree, and I think eventually, she will get that, since she did say it's not your fault.  She IS tired of the grind of being a wife and mother.  But it's too late for that.  She won't even have your support if she strikes out on her own, though she might get a couple nights a week when you have the kids to breathe.  So I"m thinking, why don't you offer to give her that now?  Why don't you ask her if you can each take the kids one night, as a trial run, while the other gets out of the house or goes and sleeps or whatever with no obligations.  Because if you divorce, that's how it will end up anyway, plus be harder all around to pay bills.  

 

Therapy might be good for her, but I would at least run this past her.  Say, Look, if we did divorce, we would have joint custody and it would just be harder on each of us, but it would give each of us a night or two to ourselves when the other had the kids.  And then, So why don't we try that now, for just a night, and see if it helps any.

[Els]

Ah, I see. It's a tough situation for sure. Especially given that they are 3 and 5, not school age yet. How are the childcare arrangements like? Does she work or is she a SAHM? Can you take the kids once a week or something so she can go out or have personal time?

Do you get a babysitter to watch the kids sometimes so you can have date night? One of the parents I know credits his good sex life (and relationship) with his wife to the fact that her parents were willing to watch the kids whenever needed, so they got time to themselves frequently. While most people don't have that luxury, paying for it sometimes could be well worth it.

I'm glad you're going to start counseling.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Elswyth

[Els]

1 hour ago, zig said:

I also think she doesn't want marriage counseling for similar reasons.  She doesn't want to be told that the things she's going through are a part of life and being a responsible parent.  She actually does whatever she wants.  Goes on vacations all the time (usually with the kids).  I'm just saying on the outside looking in there are a lot of women who would love to be in my wifes position.  I think a marriage counselor would in so many words tell my wife to grow up.

With all due respect, if they do say that, they shouldn't be a counselor. MC isn't at all about a "judge" making a call on who's right or who's wrong, and if that's how both of you view it, of course she would be hesitant to go. MC is about them guiding both of you to organise and communicate your thoughts, fears, and feelings in a productive and non combative manner so you can work out the best possible compromise for both people.

(Btw, I'm one woman who most definitely would NOT want your wife's life. Although she did sign up for it...)

[Blind-Sided]

10 hours ago, schlumpy said:

....... No one goes from an argument over a toothbrush to divorce unless they are clinging to the cliff or have already fallen.

........... 

I went from normal to "I don't love you, and Fear for my life"  because I hit the back of my ex's foot with a shopping cart.  (hence my screen name)  But you are right... assuming she isn't cheating... then she has been dwelling on this point quietly for a long time, and now it hit an eruption point.

OP... as said already... just start planning on your life without her... and by the sounds of it... having the kids full time.  You will need a lawyer, and make sure she pays her share to the kids.

I'm sorry for what you are going through.

[zig]

Does it at all matter or mean anything that we are still having sex?  I always thought sex stopped before the ultimate end.

[schlumpy]

What usually happens is that sex tapers off and what there is becomes duty sex. You can tell the difference.

You can't know if she is having a physical affair, an emotional affair, or just thinking obsessively about an affair. But she does seem to have made a decision and you best pay attention and prepare for all eventualities.

To break free she will become someone that you didn't know existed.

[Baman]

7 hours ago, zig said:

Does it at all matter or mean anything that we are still having sex?  I always thought sex stopped before the ultimate end.

That is just an assumption. The reality is for some it does for some it doesn't. Its not a formula.

Also a sign of an affair can be an increase in sex/ passion or new things in the bed. Or of sexual boredom and trying to spice it up.

Sex and love can be separated too. 

So sex isn't a good barometer!

As for her behavior: she could be depressed ''you are better off without me'' thinking, she could also be having a mid life crises and grasping for her last shot at 'freedom'. Some people self sabotage relationships and slam their hand down on the self destruct button.

Sadly, she emphasized how much she doesn't like being a mom and wife and wished it was like it was in the old days when she could travel around and do whatever she wanted.

An alternative to stay together miserable or divorce is a middle option: you could rent her a house close by, she can be part time mom and wife and you can be part time dad and husband. She gets a good level of freedom and autonomy without losing kids or husband. Kids dont get pulled apart and are remarkably resilient with truth and peace between mom and dad.

Sex can continue and may even get better, no fighting over toothbrushes either.

 

[Els]

15 minutes ago, Baman said:

An alternative to stay together miserable or divorce is a middle option: you could rent her a house close by, she can be part time mom and wife and you can be part time dad and husband. She gets a good level of freedom and autonomy without losing kids or husband. Kids dont get pulled apart and are remarkably resilient with truth and peace between mom and dad.

Or... they could do this in the same house, even. Given the way OP is ignoring all suggestions about childcare, and mentions that she takes "vacations" with the kids in tow, it sounds like she's responsible for the vast majority of childcare. It's not surprising that she needs a change, IMO - there are not many people who would be truly happy doing nothing in their lives except parenting.