This Door Can't be Left Ajar

[S2B]

2 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

having seen all the above, i have to say something..

just b/c a guy/girl lies, does not mean they're not good people... good people do bad things. it's called a mistake. presuming they come around to regretting their choices.

many people here are not perfect. i'd like to take a step further and say all people are not perfect. some people, granted, may make such colossal mistakes that it boggles the mind, but let's face it... each one of us has something in our closets, we wish to some higher deity that it never happened... but it did, and it was us who commited such acts.

the point i'm trying to make is... the actions we take, will have consequences for that individual for the rest of their lives... but i refuse to believe that we are ONLY defined by our mistakes. We may have to pay a price for them, but it is what we do AFTER we make those mistakes that truly define us... whether we are good or bad.

Many people come around and regret the errors of our ways... some do not. Ever. Those are the kinds of people we should be wary about. But I believe most people are inherently good, and flawed, and self serving... but they want to do good; sometimes, they've just forgotten how good they truly are... 

it's our personal day to day choices, that determine who we are... not one horrible mistake. There is personal redemption.

This guy didn’t make a one time mistake.

theres a big difference - it was calculated and deliberate.

[Beca L]

5 hours ago, Lady Cathryn said:

I said that to him so often. That I wanted him free and clear and divorced and having processed the divorce. Chances of that are slim to none. 

We CAN do this together! There are other people who are better for us. Who uplift and support not just show up when it's convenient for them. I want all in or all out. Not someone who tries to straddle fences.

Yes, I agree. They need to end their marriage because it was not working with their spouse not because of another person. That was the mistake my AP made. I believe that things happen for a reason and I will have to accept that my AP wasn't done with his marriage yet. He may eventually get divorced as may your AP but we are not going to  wait around for that to happen. I'm moving forward with my life ! 

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, Lady Cathryn said:

i have a tendency to assign people good qualities they don't actually possess it seems

You are not the only one !!! My AP often says to me that he's not a bad person he has just done a bad thing. However to know you are doing something wrong and yet continue to keep doing it is really bad and shows me that he really has no respect for me or his wife. It's down to pure and utter selfishness and an inability to do the right thing. Nobody really wins, it's just pain and misery all round. 

[Beca L]

Sorry XAP !!!!

 

[S2B]

11 minutes ago, Beca L said:

You are not the only one !!! My AP often says to me that he's not a bad person he has just done a bad thing. However to know you are doing something wrong and yet continue to keep doing it is really bad and shows me that he really has no respect for me or his wife. It's down to pure and utter selfishness and an inability to do the right thing. Nobody really wins, it's just pain and misery all round. 

It really shows evidence that he’s just a toxic person. He causes harm to those he knows.

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, Beca L said:

My AP often says to me that he's not a bad person he has just done a bad thing.

Seems to be a common belief amongst cheaters.
I don't believe people who do bad things are good people.
I think good people can inadvertently do bad things, but I do not think anyone inadvertently has an affair

[Beca L]

30 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Seems to be a common belief amongst cheaters.
I don't believe people who do bad things are good people.
I think good people can inadvertently do bad things, but I do not think anyone inadvertently has an affair

I agree completely. They are so deluded. They have to justify their terrible behaviour and really believe that they are a good person at heart who just fell in love and couldn’t help themselves. My XAP would say to me that he hated himself and knew he was behaving badly but he felt like he was in an impossible situation. I think he felt he could get away with his behaviour because both me and BS were happy to go along with it. I feel such a fool sometimes. I was so blind. 

[S2B]

.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by S2B

[pepperbird]

11 hours ago, Beca L said:

I agree completely. They are so deluded. They have to justify their terrible behaviour and really believe that they are a good person at heart who just fell in love and couldn’t help themselves. My XAP would say to me that he hated himself and knew he was behaving badly but he felt like he was in an impossible situation. I think he felt he could get away with his behaviour because both me and BS were happy to go along with it. I feel such a fool sometimes. I was so blind. 

I don't like to paint married men/women as predators, because I don't think they really are. It sounds like this guy may just have a sort of sixth sense when it comes to someone who , for whatever reaosn, is vulnerable

[Lady Cathryn]

me too Beca, because I have no choice. I know in my heart I was just a plaything to him. After an almost four year intimate relationship he said to me recently "I think you read too much into it." ☹️  That just gutted me. I almost feel like sending him a copy of every beautiful thing he ever said to me. ALL of our exchanges. All the declarations of love and care.

Today I am torturing myself with wondering if he thinks I am immature for blocking him. I keep writing text messages to send to apologize but I don't send them.

This is not a good day.

[pepperbird]

26 minutes ago, Lady Cathryn said:

me too Beca, because I have no choice. I know in my heart I was just a plaything to him. After an almost four year intimate relationship he said to me recently "I think you read too much into it." ☹️  That just gutted me. I almost feel like sending him a copy of every beautiful thing he ever said to me. ALL of our exchanges. All the declarations of love and care.

Today I am torturing myself with wondering if he thinks I am immature for blocking him. I keep writing text messages to send to apologize but I don't send them.

This is not a good day.

If you could say anything to him right now, what would you say?

[Lady Cathryn]

7 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

If you could say anything to him right now, what would you say?

I honestly don't know Pepper. It's like there's nothing left TO say. and  I don't think it would matter anyway. 

[2BGoodAgain]

20 hours ago, S2B said:

This guy didn’t make a one time mistake.

theres a big difference - it was calculated and deliberate.

intent, planned or by accident, doesn't qualify whether it's a mistake or not. 

[2BGoodAgain]

22 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Is lying to and cheating on his wife for 4 long years and leading the OP on to think they had a future, the actions of a good guy?
A mere mistake?
 

if he ever comes around to regretting them... yes.

or is he permanently a bad guy for it and no matter what he does, he's a bad guy? If so, then what's the point of trying to do the right thing? beget later than sooner?

people are always in flux... it isn't that they are good or bad people, that's just hollywood.. very few people are truly bad... most people are inherently good, but they do make bad choices..  they make choices that are good and/or bad. I guess what i'm trying to say is... the accumulation of our actions are what determines what we are... not one chapter in our lives.

Edited February 20, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[2BGoodAgain]

19 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Seems to be a common belief amongst cheaters.
I don't believe people who do bad things are good people.
I think good people can inadvertently do bad things, but I do not think anyone inadvertently has an affair

i never absolved people who commit bad actions... that exists and there will be a price to be paid for them... what i'm saying, is that good people make mistakes. an affair is a mistake. it doesn't matter if the act is an accident or willful intent... whether a 1 night stand or months or years... whether you lie once, or you lie a thousand times... it's still a mistake.

when you're in an affair, there's a mountain load of things you do to justify/rationalize it. whether 5 mins or years.

Edited February 20, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[2BGoodAgain]

33 minutes ago, Lady Cathryn said:

I honestly don't know Pepper. It's like there's nothing left TO say. and  I don't think it would matter anyway. 

I think Pepper was just curious about your state of mind/heart, perhaps?

not so much that it would matter to the other person, per se.

[2BGoodAgain]

1 hour ago, Lady Cathryn said:

me too Beca, because I have no choice. I know in my heart I was just a plaything to him. After an almost four year intimate relationship he said to me recently "I think you read too much into it." ☹️  That just gutted me. I almost feel like sending him a copy of every beautiful thing he ever said to me. ALL of our exchanges. All the declarations of love and care.

Today I am torturing myself with wondering if he thinks I am immature for blocking him. I keep writing text messages to send to apologize but I don't send them.

This is not a good day.

between the two of you, you are the more self aware n mature one.

it's immaturity that rationalizes an affair, instead of dealing it like an adult, ending it, before moving on with your life to something/someone else.. but he doesn't want to, and hence, he leaves it as it is, and seeks a fantasy outside reality.

I don't know if you were a plaything for him; but you were a pseudo-reality for him. a fantasy. ultimately self-deceiving himself or perhaps, if we think ill intent, deceiving you.

But honestly, none of that matters.. what we suspect his intent or self-deceit is. What matters is YOU, your heart, your well being.

and you already know none of those things will be safe or happy, with him. the hard part is for your heart to understand, what your mind already does.

Edited February 20, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[2BGoodAgain]

23 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Is lying to and cheating on his wife for 4 long years and leading the OP on to think they had a future, the actions of a good guy?
A mere mistake?
 

yes n no. as i've said above, it depends on whether or not the person regrets their bad decisions. and i never said 'mere mistake'. But a mistake is a mistake. there is no quantity or quality to what a mistake is.

[2BGoodAgain]

sometimes, it's easier to make the OP a bad person.. it may help you move on... it helps.. but for some people, it only lasts so long.. and not really a permanent solution.

your heart is torn between how you feel about him and how you see him treating you... i understand.

so here's the reality... 

he cares about himself more than you. if he truly loved you, he'd care about you, your hurts, your pain... more than his needs. if he truly loved you, he'd let you go, b/c he knows he has no intention of leaving his life for you. and having you in his life is causing you incredible pain. but he's only thinking about himself, and not you. 

but he only sees his needs as top priority, and your needs secondary. That's why he doesn't truly love you. Period.

It doesn't matter if he's a good guy or not, whether he regrets or not... that's on him to figure out, not you.

what's important is you, your heart, your happiness. Okay?

i wish you much much luck and it will be a process... there will be days you think you're scott free and other days you wonder if you love him... there will be days you haven't thought about him in weeks, then suddenly everything reminds you of him...

it doesn't mean you're in love; your brain is just addicted to the feeling he invoked in you.. a biochemical reaction your brain craves.... but your feelings were real and intense, but he didn't truly love you. he cared, as much as it didn't interfere with what he needed, but that's it. he may even fool himself into thinking he does, but he doesn't. actions speak louder than words.

how do i know this? B/c i was the guy who thought he really cared about his AP, but in reality, i was being selfish and only thinking about my needs.. i wasn't seeing the pain i put her thru... i wasn't an evil man, or intended her harm, but that's what i did.. and i didn't realize this until it was over... and then i was in pain and then i realized what i did to her... she'll never really know that, but that doesn't matter...

same as it doesn't matter whether he knows your pain or not.. he may never know your pain... but you do... and others who have been in your situation will...

so protect yourself, your heart, and your future happiness and remember it's a process... it'll take a long time to get over this, but you will.

until then, work out at the gym or that kickboxing class you talked about... talk and meet your friends/family, keep yourself busy and active. and once in a while, pop in here and say hi and mebbe help others in your same boat....

Edited February 20, 2020 by 2BGoodAgain

[Lady Cathryn]

1 hour ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

between the two of you, you are the more self aware n mature one.

it's immaturity that rationalizes an affair, instead of dealing it like an adult, ending it, before moving on with your life to something/someone else.. but he doesn't want to, and hence, he leaves it as it is, and seeks a fantasy outside reality.

I don't know if you were a plaything for him; but you were a pseudo-reality for him. a fantasy. ultimately self-deceiving himself or perhaps, if we think ill intent, deceiving you.

But honestly, none of that matters.. what we suspect his intent or self-deceit is. What matters is YOU, your heart, your well being.

and you already know none of those things will be safe or happy, with him. the hard part is for your heart to understand, what your mind already does.

You're incredibly insightful, 2BGood. Everything you say is spot on. 

My afternoon is better. Thank you for your support, 2BG. A girlfriend said to me today "whatever you do, never run back to what broke you."

[Lady Cathryn]

1 hour ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

sometimes, it's easier to make the OP a bad person.. it may help you move on... it helps.. but for some people, it only lasts so long.. and not really a permanent solution.

your heart is torn between how you feel about him and how you see him treating you... i understand.

so here's the reality... 

he cares about himself more than you. if he truly loved you, he'd care about you, your hurts, your pain... more than his needs. if he truly loved you, he'd let you go, b/c he knows he has no intention of leaving his life for you. and having you in his life is causing you incredible pain. but he's only thinking about himself, and not you. 

but he only sees his needs as top priority, and your needs secondary. That's why he doesn't truly love you. Period.

It doesn't matter if he's a good guy or not, whether he regrets or not... that's on him to figure out, not you.

what's important is you, your heart, your happiness. Okay?

i wish you much much luck and it will be a process... there will be days you think you're scott free and other days you wonder if you love him... there will be days you haven't thought about him in weeks, then suddenly everything reminds you of him...

it doesn't mean you're in love; your brain is just addicted to the feeling he invoked in you.. a biochemical reaction your brain craves.... but your feelings were real and intense, but he didn't truly love you. he cared, as much as it didn't interfere with what he needed, but that's it. he may even fool himself into thinking he does, but he doesn't. actions speak louder than words.

how do i know this? B/c i was the guy who thought he really cared about his AP, but in reality, i was being selfish and only thinking about my needs.. i wasn't seeing the pain i put her thru... i wasn't an evil man, or intended her harm, but that's what i did.. and i didn't realize this until it was over... and then i was in pain and then i realized what i did to her... she'll never really know that, but that doesn't matter...

same as it doesn't matter whether he knows your pain or not.. he may never know your pain... but you do... and others who have been in your situation will...

so protect yourself, your heart, and your future happiness and remember it's a process... it'll take a long time to get over this, but you will.

until then, work out at the gym or that kickboxing class you talked about... talk and meet your friends/family, keep yourself busy and active. and once in a while, pop in here and say hi and mebbe help others in your same boat....

that was a fantastic summation. it's so interesting to get the perspective from your side of this type of relationship. He did apologize for hurting me. He did say he wasn't using me, he did cop to being selfish .... but....that didn't him from coming back to me.

I was the idiot. I saw everything so clearly from the get go .... but there i went anyway. thank you for your great responses and hopefully I CAN help others here as I progress. This is a good place to hang out actually.

[Lady Cathryn]

I dreamed a long dream of him last night. It was a good dream yet rife with inconsistencies. I often dreamed of him over our time together and wonder if he dreams of me also at the exact same time.

Today I was dumb enough to revisit our digital conversations that I’ve saved. Almost hit delete on those. Yet .... they are like love letters in long hand I have saved before digital.

That is my story tonight. Hope all here’s going through their personal anguish finds peace. 

[Beca L]

5 hours ago, Lady Cathryn said:

Today I am torturing myself with wondering if he thinks I am immature for blocking him. I keep writing text messages to send to apologize but I don't send them.

This is not a good day.

Sorry you are not having a good day and I feel for you. I go through the same thing, it's really tough. I don't think you should be apologising for anything. You are doing it to protect your heart and surely you don't need to apologise for that. Let him think what the hell he likes, do you think he ever wonders what you think of him when he is treating you badly, ghosting you, refusing to make a decision about his future. Don't give it a second thought. Sending hugs xx xo 

[Lady Cathryn]

He was thinking of me plus his wife his kids. Max overload. I get it. 

[Beca L]

3 hours ago, 2BGoodAgain said:

i wish you much much luck and it will be a process... there will be days you think you're scott free and other days you wonder if you love him... there will be days you haven't thought about him in weeks, then suddenly everything reminds you of him...

I am assuming from your post that you are a guy who was the WS, is that correct? I understand what you are saying but you really have no idea what the AP goes through. This happened to me 2 years ago and yes he left then to return to his wife and I know that moving on for me has not been possible because we have continued to stay in touch and see each other. What I'm trying to say is that I think about him all the time,  yes some days when I'm busy with the kids it is not as much and those are good days. However on bad days he occupies my mind and I ruminate constantly about what has happened and how he ended up going back after 12 months together. I can't imagine ever going for weeks without thinking of him. Your situation may be different but to think that women who fall in love with a WS and plan a future with them and then are just dumped out of the blue can just move on and forget is just naive and insensitive. I have been traumatised by what has happened to me and I'm not sure I will ever be over it.