OW in open relationship context

[Topsymopsy]

Hi all. First time poster here - I'm posting  in the hope of getting some guidance, which I expect will be in the form of tough love. Apologies up front for what may be a long post.

I'm a 39 year old man, and live with my spouse in an open relationship (we’re not married, but will refer to her as my wife for simplicity). We've been together for 8 years and have been open for the majority of that time. The bounds of our open relationship are reasonably relaxed – we’re both free to sleep with others, always safe, never in our own bed, and the primary relationship has priority. We had a child 3 years ago - naturally external play took a backseat, and we are just now introducing new people into our lives again. Our relationship is healthy and loving.

What I will describe here began above board, but swiftly progressed into something much complex. I realise it’s probably an incredibly common occurrence, but it’s a novel situation for me and I’m having difficulty coping.

I met miss 26 (OW) via Tinder. We were aligned on what we were seeking (ongoing casual fun). She was comfortable with my situation, and in fact saw it positively as she had no desire for a romantic relationship with anybody, and expected me having a partner and child responsibilities would preclude that.

I probably don’t need to give a chronology, other than to say we’ve been seeing each other for only 4 months but it’s been intense. I’ve experienced whole new levels of feelings, physical responses to touch, the whole shebang. She’s had similar. We fell for each other hard and deep. It very quickly became more than a casual dalliance, evidenced by the way we communicated, and the frequency and type of activities we did together. She is quite simply the most gorgeous person I know.

And for a while that was great – we were both loving rolling with the feels and being in the moment, but hadn’t actually given much thought to what it all actually meant. She now realises that she does want a romantic relationship with me, of a kind that I’m not available to provide. She doesn’t want to lose me from her life but doesn’t know how she can continue to see me without getting hurt. She is casually seeing a few guys (her words), so it’s hardly like she’d keep me around just for sex and company. She struggles with what she sees as the inequity in our situations, and sometimes the guilt that I’m spending time with her instead of my child. She acknowledged that she came into this with both eyes open.

My wife is aware – the extent of feelings I’ve shared with OW go well beyond what we had envisaged our open relationship to allow, so there was a betrayal there. However my wife is the most understanding and supportive person in the world. She would consider shifting to something more polyamorous, but that hasn’t been discussed in any great depth yet.

Whilst there has been no physical infidelity (I concede the EA), I see now that our relationship has all the hallmarks of a MM/OW relationship, and I’m distraught. I’m the guy that “says he loves me but won’t leave his wife”, a place I never thought I’d be. I now fully see that it’s a case of me wanting all my cakes and eating them too, and I’ve been incredibly selfish and am hurting OW.

Obviously, a person can’t just turn feelings off, so we can’t simply revert to what we did sign up for. OW doesn’t believe that she could have me as FWB now, doesn’t want to be platonic friends or be in a polyamorous relationship. She is lost and doesn’t know what to do. I suggested that she may like some time and space; she asked for a few weeks NC to work out what she wants (but also said I’m free to check in), which I will respect.

So I guess I’m here seeking some idea from those who have been there, of what might be running around in her head, and what outcome I could expect. Has an OW ever been able to successfully reconcile having the feels and continue to see MM? I also don’t know if I should touch base, or wait for her to initiate contact.

To be honest, the thought of never seeing her again terrifies me, but for the sake of her happiness and wellbeing it might be time to say goodbye. And it breaks my heart.

[pepperbird]

9 minutes ago, Topsymopsy said:

.To be honest, the thought of never seeing her again terrifies me, but for the sake of her happiness and wellbeing it might be time to say goodbye. And it breaks my heart.

This, to me, shows that you truly do love her.  I do agree with you though about needing to let her go. She will move on n life, and you will too.

Edited February 24, 2020 by pepperbird

[Topsymopsy]

30 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I do agree with you though about needing to let her go. She will move on n life, and you will too.

That's right, the world will keep turning. I'm 95% sure she'll come to the same conclusion, she has to protect herself.

I just don't know whether to give her a few weeks to get there herself, or I should pipe up and do it.

[Baman]

I am in a similar situation, open marriage and wife is poly.

I see one glaring thing you guys didn't account for... the ''caught feelings'', and what do do IF it happens.

This should really have been discussed long ago by your 'wife' and yourself. If you have in the past you do not mention it.

Is the OW a single person who dates around and just happened to hook up with a man in an open relationship? 

When My wife and I opened our marriage (at my prompting) we tried the swing scene briefly and found it was not really for us. The main thing that arose was the knowledge that my wife would not be open to random or casual partners while I would be. We fast worked out while I am more interested in casual she was more interested in polyamory. That is, she would have to have feelings for who ever she was to bed. The attachment would have to go much deeper than sex, to a full blown friendship and lover. 

So we learnt a lot about poly life BEFORE she met a man like that. BUT when she did, holy crap was it hard for me nonetheless. It takes some adjusting to. Learning is theory, life is the practical. There was no betrayal of me in this case, I knew she would fall hard and she did. Within one week she was not willing to give this man up. The love came to an end when the guy went back to his ex because he was still in love. AND because HE is a single man used to serial monogamy and wants to have his 'own' woman'. That he could not have 'mine' broke his brain. She was devastated but is still in touch as a platonic friend. If one day (i think soon) they circle back to each other I know what to expect.

Are you both ok with either or both of you falling IN LOVE with another person? You cant put rules on love but you can agree on the amount of time invested in another.

You cannot control for each others loves getting out over your boundaries. Either of you could fall in love with another, open, poly or monogamous. Your relationship style isn't the problem. This board is stuffed full of monogamous people cheating and falling in love with people other than their partners, so don't take any crap from them blaming your openness for your dilemma

I have learnt to live with and except that if my wife steps out she will fall in love and NOT leave me. But there are no guarantees. I will possibly have half a wife, but she could just as easy end up with half a husband. My job is to be the kind of man she will want to remain with long term as other lovers come and go. Such is polyamory. It can be a tough gig.

My suggestion is to let the OW go. Your wife is your priority not the OW. She wants you and cant have you because she wants to be monogamous. And even if you left your wife for her sooner or later you will want to open up... once the cat is out you can't put it back in the bag. Then both take a break from seeing anyone and spend a few months talking about what ifs.

There is nothing wrong in poly with being  the guy that “says he loves me but won’t leave his wife”, THAT is proper  respect for you wife and the agreement you both made to explore outside the relationship. Poly is basically he loves me but wont leave his primary partner. (at least in hierarchical Polyamory)

ps. nothing wrong with having your cake and eating it too. What's the point of having a cake you cant eat? But what you don't do with the cake is eat all the icing in one go or you will get sick...

 

[2BGoodAgain]

the funny thing about human beings is they rationalize and create self-deceits, in their arrogance to think they know everything... so they solace themselves that they keep honesty there, in somehow saying what they're doing is predictable, in control, and sheer hubris think they can manage life.

unfortunately, they ignore the fundamental lessons in history/past stories, where people think they know what they're doing, and in so doing, completely miss the lesson of such stories.

how often, do we say we can't help who we love? and yet, we open ourselves or flirt with a decision that you just can't predict... there are many people out there... and having not met anything close to a decent statistical sample, we presume to think we know what we're doing and have an idea what to expect... having said that, i guess you can't live your life being scared of all the possibilities, and yet, one should try to minimize such impact. ehh, what do i know?

Look, you and your OW are going with a feeling... and the problem with feelings is that, there's usually an underlying reason why you feel the way you do... i mean, it could be "love" and all that... but that's also presuming it's  mutual.

what i'm saying is... you put out there several self-deceit red flags that I want you to seriously consider and think about.

1) just b/c ur in an open relationship, the very fact that you are bypassing the supposed trappings of infidelity b/c it's sanctioned, is no protection from the situation you're in. As you are painfully aware. But an open relationship, though it feels like you have less rules, it's actually more like playing along the fence in a very dangerous way, b/c you are inviting other people into your relationship, and the only thing that is keeping your relationship together is the presumption that the other person will agree to the rules the both of you have set up. But whether you are in a open relationship or a traditional closed relationship, it still requires trust in the other person to keep the "vows"... except in an open relationship, you're leaving it wide open on the assumption that by inviting people into the relationship, in sheer hubris, that nothing like this will happen. 

2) when in a relationship where the physical chemistry is so strong, persons tend to blur the lines between love/and biochemistry highs... i can't speak for the women, but for the male.. these chemical highs can be quite addictive and quite overwhelming... that it confuses the male into thinking this is somehow bigger than it really is. I'm not trying to minimize the chemistry between you two, but the problem of living a hedonistic lifestyle, is there there will always be someone better at it.. than the person you're with... just b/c you spend hours doing things outside sex... but where it revolves around sex... does not = love. Then again, mebbe that's what love is... but who knows.. that's another thread. What i'm trying to say is... try NOT having sex/physical chemistry for a few months and see if that same chemistry still exists.. i'm not talking about sexual tension, but the emotional parts of it.Though it may go against everything you two are into, for such a life changing decision you're about to make.. it might be worthwhile to find out what this is... b/c you two/three are going by your emotions/feelings rather than thought... and the problem with feelings ... is that it can be very misleading.. I realize you may disagree with me, b/c you ARE thinking a lot... but you said it yourself... you and your partner(s) were just winging it... and going with the feel, and then suddenly you're in this predicament...  try it. You might find out how you really feel/think... Also for her too.

3) The OW isn't very likely to ever change her feelings about you.. other than time and space... unless she finds out why she's so drawn to you. It could be "love"etc.... or it could be something you're invoking in her, but not necessarily YOU, the individual. 

4) moving forward... regardless of the reasons of why or whatnot... 1) she has stated she wants more. Nothing else. 2) you have already decided to stay with your life partner, etc... I don't see what the problem is? You chose your life partner, and she has said she wants you for a life partner. Two mutually exclusive life choices. Without "cheating", there is no other solution.

4A) If you choose your life partner: 1) no contact with OW. 2) block her from everything, if you must, for her own sake. If you truly care about her, like you say you do, then that's what you should do, and allow her to move on past you and heal and move on with her life. Put her long term needs before your own needs.  3) her situation is no longer your concern, focus on the "vows/promises" you made with your life partner. Though, i suspect, somethings may change, since this situation happened. She not only has to protect her lifestyle with you, there's a child to consider.

4B) regardless of what you choose, you should still seek counseling...  find out the deeper you.. you may be surprised that you may not know you like you think you do. It may lead to a happier you. and your life partner and your child. and any future persons you meet while in your open relationship.

Good luck to you!

 

[central]

I've been in an open relationship (occasionally poly) for 20 years. Sometimes it has been intense. I will point out that you've been in this new relationship only 4 months, so are at the peak intensity. It could fade, it could implode once you know each other better. Of course, this OW has changed the parameters on you, which is not acceptable IMO. If she would consider a poly relationship, then perhaps you could explore that. However, I think you have to consider the long term priorities here, which includes your child and your long term partner. Most likely, you'll have to end any contact with OW before it gets any more difficult and complex to do so, or ruins what you already have at home. And IMO it is too soon to know OW well enough to choose her over your existing relationships - and you really can't afford to wait and see.

[Topsymopsy]

Thankyou all for your considered and detailed responses. I'll get around to individual points when I'm near a keyboard (as opposed to thumbing away on my phone).

In the meantime, I'd like your opinions on how to approach the next step. Clearly we have to part ways. Should I contact her now and get it over with (breaking her request for time and space) or let her reach that point herself in the coming weeks?

I want to minimise pain for her, but I also don't want to deny her the opportunity to think things through without me all up in her face.

[Topsymopsy]

Hi all. My OW asked me for some time and space (a few weeks) in order to work through her thoughts and feelings.

I fully intend to respect that, however she also said I could check in if I want to. So, I'm not entirely sure what the expectations are here. We didn't explicitly agree on NC.

Any ideas?

[Baman]

8 hours ago, Topsymopsy said:

In the meantime, I'd like your opinions on how to approach the next step. Clearly we have to part ways. Should I contact her now and get it over with (breaking her request for time and space) or let her reach that point herself in the coming weeks?

I want to minimise pain for her, but I also don't want to deny her the opportunity to think things through without me all up in her face.

My opinion then would be first, you are doing the right thing. I have a pretty good idea what your wife might be feeling based on what happened to me. Second to honor her request for space and wait for her to reach back if and when she does. However, I would be prepared with an 'it's over' text or speech for that time.

As for her thinking things through... she has two choices she will no doubt consider  1. stay away or 2. become poly. (and thus begins a whole new learning curve for 3 and its associated challenges).

lastly, to borrow from @2BGoodAgain except in an open relationship, you're leaving it wide open on the assumption that by inviting people into the relationship, in sheer hubris, that nothing like this will happen. 

You and the wife need to discuss this sentence. It may well happen again one day (to either of you) and best get a game plan of how you might handle it before it happens. One golden rule of poly is ''no surprises''.

[Allupinnit]

I'd let her contact you. 

[Amethyst68]

Where is your concern for your wife? Your main partner in this relationship! Is she just supposed to just sit quietly in the background taking care of your child while you decide if this OW  your future.....

I admit I don't know much about open relationships but I thought the number one rule was the main relationship was the most important. You should have dumped OW as soon as you realised what was happening. No second thoughts, you've broken the agreement with your wife.

[Topsymopsy]

41 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said:

Where is your concern for your wife? Your main partner in this relationship! Is she just supposed to just sit quietly in the background taking care of your child while you decide if this OW  your future.....

I admit I don't know much about open relationships but I thought the number one rule was the main relationship was the most important. You should have dumped OW as soon as you realised what was happening. No second thoughts, you've broken the agreement with your wife.

No argument from me on any of your points, Amethyst68. Had I been a bit more savvy as it was occurring I would have behaved appropriately and we'd have a different outcome. However, we are here now. My spouse and I are actively discussing and working through it, and the caregiving for our child is a shared responsibility.

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Topsymopsy said:

My spouse and I are actively discussing and working through it, and the caregiving for our child is a shared responsibility.

You are both playing with fire.
I get the whole open marriage thing for adults, but there is a child involved here who could get very hurt and damaged.

[Amethyst68]

So who is your priority your wife or the OW? I'm asking because going by your posts it seems like your wife is pretty much a second thought.

[Topsymopsy]

On 2/24/2020 at 10:13 PM, Baman said:

Is the OW a single person who dates around and just happened to hook up with a man in an open relationship? 

On 2/24/2020 at 10:13 PM, Baman said:

She wants you and cant have you because she wants to be monogamous. And even if you left your wife for her sooner or later you will want to open up... once the cat is out you can't put it back in the bag.

The OW is decidedly non-monogamous and can't imagine having sex with the one person for the rest of her life. So what I understand, she is now wanting is me as her primary partner in an open relationship. Or at least to date with more freedom. And as @central pointed out, that's a huge shift in the bounds.

 

[elaine567]

Unless you can provide the romantic relationship she wants with you then you need to leave her alone. 
Anything else would be just torturing her for no reason.
She doesn't want you to "check in to say "Hi", she wants you to "check in" if you are prepared to give her what she wants from you.

[Topsymopsy]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

She doesn't want you to "check in to say "Hi", she wants you to "check in" if you are prepared to give her what she wants from you.

Thank you elaine, that's something I was certainly seeking some clarity on, and I had not picked up on that reasoning. I say that because we we had never given any serious consideration to me leaving my spouse for OW (so she should have zero expectations for it),  and she had presented the need for time and space to work through her own thoughts and feelings, and to properly establish what she wants and needs.

[elaine567]

As you said in the other thread.  

Quote

OW doesn’t believe that she could have me as FWB now, doesn’t want to be platonic friends or be in a polyamorous relationship.

She has it pretty much covered, I don't think she will change her mind as  none of what you offer is good enough for her.
Maybe she thinks if you miss her enough, YOU will be prepared to offer her more.
Many women especially single ones, are good at talking "casual", but many are not good at keeping it " casual".
They get the feels as being loved and made to feel special is a pretty essential requirement for most.

[Topsymopsy]

38 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

She has it pretty much covered, I don't think she will change her mind as  none of what you offer is good enough for her.

That's pretty much it. I can live in a world of wishful thinking, but that does no one any good in the end. I know what needs to happen, but will wait to hear from her.

I was confused by what I perceived to be mixed signals, but what you said makes sense. Thanks again.

[Baman]

9 hours ago, Topsymopsy said:

The OW is decidedly non-monogamous and can't imagine having sex with the one person for the rest of her life. So what I understand, she is now wanting is me as her primary partner in an open relationship. Or at least to date with more freedom. And as @central pointed out, that's a huge shift in the bounds.

 

So she's trying to oust your wife.

when a single male does that in polyamory its called 'cowboying' I have been told.

in my opinion that is not a shift in bounds... that's a mutiny, a take over. She is dangerous and has no respect for your wife and maybe not for you.