Why does this make me so angry?

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, somewhatperplexed said:

the fact that he could have damaged her, her reputation, and her career without facing any responsibility

No it would have been "her" who damaged her reputation and career.  She wanted him.

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, somewhatperplexed said:

The two of them have had a friendly relationship for the past couple of years. They don't meet in person; I think the sense of control she gets from maintaining that friendship is her way of closure and coping.

So you're saying she still looking for closure and a way to cope with the break up with him?  If so, she isn't over him.  Does your gf now have a career that matches his?  If not, 

 

3 hours ago, somewhatperplexed said:

I'd say they message on occasion - she likes to talk shop with a lot of people, so I'd say not more or less than with her other former colleagues. I know that they exchange articles, etc. for example. I never had the impression there was anything bar friendship, though. 

Are they the same level professionally?  If not, what's the point?  Especially since she was in love with the guy to the point of wanting to see a psychologist?  It would seem that she would be done with this guy once and for all.

[ExpatInItaly]

28 minutes ago, stillafool said:

So you're saying she still looking for closure and a way to cope with the break up with him?  If so, she isn't over him. 

This is precisely why I circled back to your unsettled gut reaction to her revelation, OP. 

I am unclear why you feel it may be a coping strategy for her to keep in touch with him if this is all in her past and any contact now is strictly professional. What does she need to cope with, exactly?

Edited February 24, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Ellener]

Well I think your reaction is perfectly understandable, OP, especially your desire not to over-react. Your partner was younger and this person abused a position of authority, you now feel protective and concerned for her. 

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What does she need to cope with, exactly?

Unfortunately many people remain in contact with previously abusive people, sometimes for practical reasons but often because of a mistaken sense of affection and loyalty. It even has a 'nickname' when people have feelings for an abuser: Stockholm Syndrome. And even where it's not so overt most of us try to rationalise an abusive relationship or situation over time, we can't believe we were so gullible or that the other person is evil etc so we water it down in our minds and only remember good bits etc. These 'coping mechanisms' can be infuriating to others who don't understand, it's much more 'black and white' to them.

Concentrate on what you have now @somewhatperplexed

[somewhatperplexed]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This is precisely why I circled back to your unsettled gut reaction to her revelation, OP. 

I am unclear why you feel it may be a coping strategy for her to keep in touch with him if this is all in her past and any contact now is strictly professional. What does she need to cope with, exactly?

This is my assumption. She never said this. I asked her why and she said she wanted to "stay in the know". Her job was such that information was in short supply and I get the reasoning behind it on a logical level. Don't ask me why she likes staying friends with exes, though. I don't think she does it to feed her ego. I trust that it's simply a part of who she is. I guess she can very easily be friends with people who meant something to her at some point without holding a grudge.

[somewhatperplexed]

4 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Well I think your reaction is perfectly understandable, OP, especially your desire not to over-react. Your partner was younger and this person abused a position of authority, you now feel protective and concerned for her. 

Unfortunately many people remain in contact with previously abusive people, sometimes for practical reasons but often because of a mistaken sense of affection and loyalty. It even has a 'nickname' when people have feelings for an abuser: Stockholm Syndrome. And even where it's not so overt most of us try to rationalise an abusive relationship or situation over time, we can't believe we were so gullible or that the other person is evil etc so we water it down in our minds and only remember good bits etc. These 'coping mechanisms' can be infuriating to others who don't understand, it's much more 'black and white' to them.

Concentrate on what you have now @somewhatperplexed

Thanks, Ellener. I think a part of what makes me mad here is definitely the fact that I wouldn't be caught dead staying in any kind of touch with someone like this. A more common reaction, but I don't think it invalidates hers, or that of anyone who chooses to rationalize the experience and file it under "maybe that person wasn't so bad".

[elaine567]

28 minutes ago, somewhatperplexed said:

I guess she can very easily be friends with people who meant something to her at some point without holding a grudge.

Most women can be platonic friends with people they dumped or people they saw no future with.
 

[preraph]

I wouldn't like her still being in contact with him either.  But I will tell you I kind of understand it.  I had an ex I then worked with who caused me both personal and professional pain in the extreme, and I certainly had no contact for 10 years.  But when I began healing from the depression it caused me and once I felt I was out of the woods, I felt the final thing I had to do was basically forgive him for his utter stupidity and carelessness.  No, I didn't tell him that.  I did it so he and everyone else in that circle would know he didn't break me.  And he and I did have things in common and enjoyed talking about certain things and the better times when we were working together and music and things.  Now that has pretty much run its course and I can truly say I have zero lingering romantic feelings, though he was a big part of my history so I have the normal feelings for an old friend, just more complicated by the bad things.  But I do feel I did the right thing for myself, not for him. 

 

And maybe this is something she feels she has to do to hold her head up high.  But I still wouldn't like it and would break off if you even get a whiff they ever get together.  Please realize that even though I saw my ex (bf) often and worked with him different times, I never slept with him after he and my roommate slept together in 1979.  We had a couple of close calls though and I was still in love with him for many years.  But I wasn't taking any chances.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

8 hours ago, somewhatperplexed said:

Hi all, a short background first: My SO and I have been together for almost two years now. The two of us have had a fantastic, honest relationship with no secrets or taboos so far. From very early on, we told each other practically everything - stories about our other relationships, exes, sexual histories, kinks, you name it. And we always had a strong no-judgement approach to it on both ends. I'm not going to lie and say it was always easy. I've never been exposed to this type of complete honesty, but it did wonders for the trust that we have in each other. 

However, I always knew that there was one particular episode in her life that she never addressed, and although I had a fairly good idea what took place, I never pushed because I felt she wasn't ready to tell me. I picked up on subtle hints along the way I guess. Although I wanted to ask on a couple of occasions, I did what anyone would do when they love someone: I waited without prying for her to tell me the whole story.

The other day she said there was something she wanted to tell me for a long time that she suspected I already knew anyway. I asked if it was about person X and she said yes. So she told me everything, details of which I have to redact for reasons that will become apparent.

Several years ago she was contacted about a work-related matter by a well-established person. At that time she was very young and she's also always been extremely attractive (worth keeping in mind as I it obviously had a lot to do with what happened). She was lucky that her career progressed quite quickly over a very short period of time, but she was alone and living far away from home, and struggling to have any kind of a life between all the work, her new environment, etc. So it was a very lonely time for her. Person X was in his mid-50s, partnered with grown up children. First time he contacted her, he invited her to a meeting at his office. The second time they met, they met in private, sparks flew, and she said she was on cloud nine from the very first moment.

They would meet on the weekends, going to remote places, spending evenings together where others wouldn't see them, etc. (I know). It went on like this for a couple of months, she was head over heels, feeling she met her prince charming. He kept reinforcing these feelings by saying he loved her, and she was under the impression that it was only a matter of time before he would leave his SO to be with her (red flags galore). Long story short, and omitting some details for the sake of privacy, the relationship fizzled out in the upcoming months, he became cold and distant (I think he most probably got caught or at least very scared of the possibility that someone knew), thus she was left in state of depression and stupor, followed by some serious soul searching. This is key to the story, though: somewhere along the line she got a job near him, which she at the time thought was a way of slowly preparing the grounds for them to be together. She tried changing her job after the relationship ended, but that wasn't possible for several reasons, so she ended up staying although she hated herself for it since. 

She moved on eventually, although he tried once to reignite the relationship, but by then she was already over it, and in the following year the two of us met (at the right time for both I think, as both of us had worked out our past traumas by then). She said she wanted to tell me the entire story very early on but didn't because she didn't know how to explain what had happened and that she was extremely ashamed about it all. She also never told anyone about any of this. In the meantime, she got a different job at another company, so she's in a much healthier environment and far away from all of this in every possible sense. I think this was a major elephant in the room for her and although she knew that I had figured it out on my own, she felt like she must come clean. I think she was under immense pressure throughout this time deliberating on what's the best time to tell me as well. It makes me sad that she had to put herself through it, though. I don't blame her for any of it. It doesn't change a thing for me when it comes to my feelings for her. I don't think she did anything wrong by falling in love with him at the time, either.

I do blame him to the point of feeling extremely angry since. Here's this guy who woke up one day and didn't like his life, bogged down by his lousy, boring relationship, and took the first opportunity to use his privilege and power to manipulate and impress someone much, much younger for so long. I can't get into the details of the games he played, and I'm heavily redacting because I don't want to abuse her trust. Yet, it drives me insane that someone like him should have known better and yet did all this anyway. The two of them have had a friendly relationship for the past couple of years. They don't meet in person; I think the sense of control she gets from maintaining that friendship is her way of closure and coping. What drives me mad is the idea that on some off-chance we might end up in the same room at some point and all I'll want to do is smack him. I'm not a violent person, and I know I would be on my best behaviour for her sake, if anything. So I told her, what she wants to do with their friendship is her business, but I would like to politely opt out of any social interaction with him bar accidental run-ins.

I have been deliberating on whether I should take any other steps because I am beyond angry, however. My body was aching from my muscles cramping up from the stress and I felt like vomiting and crying these past few days from the fury I feel. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but the noise I feel from learning all of this has left me thinking that there has to be some way to cope with this in a healthy way and make sure it's clear I don't want this guy or any of the baggage in our lives. I would appreciate your advice.

 

 

Uh, the problem with your outlook here is that you are only sharing with us her version OF the story, which includes only that which she wishes you to know.

 

Were you capable of sharing the complete story, it would undoubtedly have rational readers left with the idea that it was much more of a mutual pursuit, and far less her being effectively preyed upon.

 

SO, the answer to your question is:     "... precisely because you are only privy to her version OF  the story, and not the complete story".

 

Your best move from this moment forward would be to just drop the subject with her  and cease to be angry with regard to the older man.

 

 

[somewhatperplexed]

51 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Most women can be platonic friends with people they dumped or people they saw no future with.
 

I think the word "future" is key here. Feels like men focus more on the now by default, myself included. This whole episode for me could basically be summarized with "why would you tell me this now, and how does affect things between us today". I think my SO felt the need to tell me at least partially because she felt both confident in where we are now, but also where we're headed. I can understand if this was some sort of "this guy is my guy for good and I don't want any secrets eating away at me" move.

19 minutes ago, preraph said:

 But when I began healing from the depression it caused me and once I felt I was out of the woods, I felt the final thing I had to do was basically forgive him for his utter stupidity and carelessness.  No, I didn't tell him that.  I did it so he and everyone else in that circle would know he didn't break me. But I do feel I did the right thing for myself, not for him. 

You have almost quoted her on at least one part of what she said here.  

25 minutes ago, preraph said:

And maybe this is something she feels she has to do to hold her head up high. 

I think so too, now that I have sufficiently cooled off. I still don't necessarily think that it's the healthiest thing to do, but it's not my job to get involved, unless like you said, I get a sense that it's a possibility. That being said, who would volunteer all of this information and then go behind someone's back anyway? 

[somewhatperplexed]

8 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Uh, the problem with your outlook here is that you are only sharing with us her version OF the story, which includes only that which she wishes you to know.

 

Were you capable of sharing the complete story, it would undoubtedly have rational readers left with the idea that it was much more of a mutual pursuit, and far less her being effectively preyed upon.

 

SO, the answer to your question is:     "... precisely because you are only privy to her version OF  the story, and not the complete story".

 

Your best move from this moment forward would be to just drop the subject with her  and cease to be angry with regard to the older man.

It has occurred to me that what I was hearing was biased. These stories are anyway. I don't think she gave me a false version, just her version, though. And I'm sure that if in a parallel universe I heard his version of the story, I'd probably feel at least some sympathy for him, too. All that being said, I still believe he had a responsibility to act less like a privileged old white guy, and more like an adult who wouldn't want to see his children in a similar situation.

I get his interest and initial involvement on many levels, and I know that it would be stupid to be upset that he broke her heart. It's a given someone's going to get your heart broken anyway. The issue that I have is that no matter what his motivation was, he continued with this charade even when the initial infatuation wore off and just kept lying to her. As someone with experience, and he is, he should have known it could have lasting and severe consequences on another person's life and it's not fair to do it to someone so much younger and less experienced than you.

[preraph]

I'm sure all of my friends would agree that I was nuts to ever speak to the guy again.  It took me years to start considering the fact that instead of evil, he was just a simpleton in some ways, one who was very vulnerable to women who would flatter him or make him feel needed.  There was one new coworker who sucked up to him who basically ruined my career with her lies and manipulations with him and another man up the chain from me.  And last time I saw the ex and his wife (we went to a concert at a club), she made a point of asking me about this little manipulator and 30 years later, she is STILL interfering in his life and he even loaned her money.  So yeah, it really validated me in a lot of ways, because he's that desperate to be treated like a savior or whatever.  Stupid.  He's jeopardized every one of his relationships with that little weasel.  I told the third wife, "I would have thought the second wife would have run her off, for sure."  So apparently no one can do anything with him.  Made me feel like I wasn't the only one at least!  So yeah, kind of healing.  

[somewhatperplexed]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

I'm sure all of my friends would agree that I was nuts to ever speak to the guy again.  It took me years to start considering the fact that instead of evil, he was just a simpleton in some ways, one who was very vulnerable to women who would flatter him or make him feel needed.  There was one new coworker who sucked up to him who basically ruined my career with her lies and manipulations with him and another man up the chain from me.  And last time I saw the ex and his wife (we went to a concert at a club), she made a point of asking me about this little manipulator and 30 years later, she is STILL interfering in his life and he even loaned her money.  So yeah, it really validated me in a lot of ways, because he's that desperate to be treated like a savior or whatever.  Stupid.  He's jeopardized every one of his relationships with that little weasel.  I told the third wife, "I would have thought the second wife would have run her off, for sure."  So apparently no one can do anything with him.  Made me feel like I wasn't the only one at least!  So yeah, kind of healing.  

I am also surprised that person X didn't end up getting in trouble. But I suspect that this is a pattern of behavior and that his SO knows based on what I know. 

[preraph]

It's just an imperfect world.  Hope things hold together for you.  But yeah, I do think if I was you, I'd want to see their communications because I don't trust him.  

[somewhatperplexed]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

It's just an imperfect world.  Hope things hold together for you.  But yeah, I do think if I was you, I'd want to see their communications because I don't trust him.  

I don't do that. I am of the belief that people should have their own space, personal communication should be off-limits and it's none of my business to check her phone, tablet, etc. You open that Pandora's box, it's over. You'll want to do it every time you feel paranoid.

[preraph]

Yeah, I get it.  I guess you can reserve that for if there's a crisis.  

[elaine567]

This is just typical MM behaviour, go read the stories on the OW forum.
Trouble is, some have so much of a hold over the OW that the affair can last for literally years, decades even. Off and on, on and off, push and pull, pull and push.
"All over for definite this time" and then he comes back round again...

B...B..b.but this is the guy who treated you so bad. 
Yes, but this time he IS leaving....
Yeah sure whatever you say...

I am not saying they are still going strong, but the "rules" with cheaters can be pretty flexible and sometimes very surprising...

[SincereOnlineGuy]

10 hours ago, somewhatperplexed said:

It has occurred to me that what I was hearing was biased. These stories are anyway. I don't think she gave me a false version, just her version, though. And I'm sure that if in a parallel universe I heard his version of the story, I'd probably feel at least some sympathy for him, too. All that being said, I still believe he had a responsibility to act less like a privileged old white guy, and more like an adult who wouldn't want to see his children in a similar situation.

I get his interest and initial involvement on many levels, and I know that it would be stupid to be upset that he broke her heart. It's a given someone's going to get your heart broken anyway. The issue that I have is that no matter what his motivation was, he continued with this charade even when the initial infatuation wore off and just kept lying to her. As someone with experience, and he is, he should have known it could have lasting and severe consequences on another person's life and it's not fair to do it to someone so much younger and less experienced than you.

Not only was her version biased.

 

But now your answer was biased too.

You continue to want to bang her...   and as such, you're not even allowed to assess the tale she tells with an open mind.

 

I'm sure it's just... some  2020 in-your-area version of, say, Jim Palmer...  and now you spend every waking hour loathing every pitch that (Jim Palmer) ever threw...

... when before this you never even cared about (whatever vocation Jim Palmer is into).

 

So just draw your own line and stop it...   for your own future sanity.

 

 

[JTSW]

22 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Then let it go.  

Agreed!

Nothing good can come from dwelling on it.

It's in the past. It's gone.

Look to the future or your angry behavior will drive heraway.

[Blind-Sided]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 6:08 AM, somewhatperplexed said:

.........

I have been deliberating on whether I should take any other steps because I am beyond angry,.............. I would appreciate your advice.

 

My advice is... don't take any steps.  It's her past, and she confided in you.  There are a few things to think about... and I know this is going to suck.........

1) On some level... there is probably feelings inside her. You trying to control that situation will come off bitter, and/or jealous.  Either of witch can change the dynamic of the relationship you are in. And unless you want out... DO NOT TRY.

2) I get the feeling you are mad for her... but the reality is... it takes 2 to tango.  She was a willing participant in this.  Sure, she was maybe hoping for a future with someone of power... but if you look at the OW/OM section on this forum... it's full of these stories where someone is the so-called victim.  It's one thing if they had a fling, and then she found out after that he was married... but that's not what it sounds like to me.

3) if you want things to be better... then you need to simply support her, and make sure she knows 100% that you won't have any part of the past.  Including going to a place where he may be.

Sorry for what you are going through... but since it's not you... you can't control it.

[Blind-Sided]

21 hours ago, somewhatperplexed said:

.............. I don't think she gave me a false version, just her version, though. ........

I get his interest and initial involvement on many levels,..... The issue that I have is that no matter what his motivation was, he continued with this charade even when the initial infatuation wore off and just kept lying to her. As someone with experience, and he is, he should have known it could have lasting and severe consequences on another person's life and it's not fair to do it to someone so much younger and less experienced than you.

OK.... I just wanted to add to this, and you have answered your own question with that first part... and it's unfair to judge the other guy while knowing you have a partial story. (to be blunt)

Here's the deal... as I already said... it takes 2 to tango.  Right now... I'm out of a 20 year relationship, and I have been introduced to a few girls.  2 of which are very young. there is currently a 26 year old who is actively chasing me! (im 47)  While I'm very flattered that someone like her would see me as something other than just a "Gross old man"... she has been sending me a steady stream of snapchat pics, and txts. It's a great mood lifter, but I know if I get involved with her... the stories after will be just like this one.  "The 47 year old, experienced businessman took advantage of the young innocent girl."   The reality is... she was a willing participant.

I'm really only playing devil's advocate here.  But head into the OW/OM section, and you will see this over, and over.

 

[somewhatperplexed]

3 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

My advice is... don't take any steps.  It's her past, and she confided in you.  There are a few things to think about... and I know this is going to suck.........

1) On some level... there is probably feelings inside her. You trying to control that situation will come off bitter, and/or jealous.  Either of witch can change the dynamic of the relationship you are in. And unless you want out... DO NOT TRY.

...

3) if you want things to be better... then you need to simply support her, and make sure she knows 100% that you won't have any part of the past.  Including going to a place where he may be.

Sorry for what you are going through... but since it's not you... you can't control it.

Thanks for this. I have cooled off sufficiently, thought about how I feel about the whole story, and you're right. I reacted the way I did because I felt bad for her just like she has felt bad for me about some of my own personal stories. It's empathy towards your partner, and not a bad emotion to feel. 

But rationally speaking, I will continue to refrain from commenting on any particular aspect of the story or asking any further questions. She told me her side of the story, and whether I'm happy with it won't affect what had happened nor her way of how she wants me to understand it. On the other hand, I think I was explicit already in not wanting to have anything to do with him, or be in the same place as him, which like you said has more with the fact that we now have our own relationship to work on and continue growing, and nothing to do with my personal feelings about his role in this. The fact that I'm the only person who knows the entire story, and that it took her so long to tell me, shows me that she must have been terrified about both my reaction and what I would think of her, and I neither of us needs any of that. She has my full support and trust, and if by some chance she decides to revisit that particular relationship at some point, that will be 100% on her, and not because I wasn't supportive or understanding when she needed me. I think she told me out of a place of serious pain over the years (I have some evidence to prove that, actually, that wasn't provided by her), and I'll respect the fact that she finally mustered the courage to come out with it when she did, the way she did and that's that.

3 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Here's the deal... as I already said... it takes 2 to tango.  Right now... I'm out of a 20 year relationship, and I have been introduced to a few girls.  2 of which are very young. there is currently a 26 year old who is actively chasing me! (im 47)  While I'm very flattered that someone like her would see me as something other than just a "Gross old man"... she has been sending me a steady stream of snapchat pics, and txts. It's a great mood lifter, but I know if I get involved with her... the stories after will be just like this one.  "The 47 year old, experienced businessman took advantage of the young innocent girl."   The reality is... she was a willing participant.

I'm really only playing devil's advocate here.  But head into the OW/OM section, and you will see this over, and over.

Just to clarify. I am not at liberty to disclose details that would go to prove my claim that he acted in a manipulative way that goes beyond the usual relationship dynamics. I think she was a willing participant to an extent, yes. But I also think that there are different ways of ensuring that the other person knows the full extent of what they are getting into without obfuscation, trickery and manipulation. I have friends who are your age and older who are or were in relationships with much younger women, and I can tell you that most if not all of those are or were between two willing, consenting adults. Then there's using the skills you have acquired over the years and that come from life experience, etc. (not to mention other affairs) where it really doesn't take that much to get someone to fall in love with you head over heels just so you can have a nice shiny toy for a couple of months, until the next young hottie comes around or what have you.

I have experience, too, you might say. I find it incredibly easy to talk to younger women. What's the easy way of figuring out the difference? I think asking yourself whether you have tried to be honest about your intentions to the best of your ability from day one. Also, not reeling them back in with emotionally and psychologically manipulative techniques that you know will work on someone who's never had a deep, meaningful and healthy relationship. Besides, I'm also older than my partner, some might say by a significant margin. I'm not condemning all YW/OM relationships, or relationships with complex power dynamics. That would be naive and unfair. People should have the freedom to date whoever they want. But here it's really a case of what I've just described (and sorry I can't give you examples, but I think you get my point). 

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, somewhatperplexed said:

 Besides, I'm also older than my partner, some might say by a significant margin

Ah.
You no doubt have a lot invested in this.
She is a shiny prize.
Although you may not want to admit it, a bit of that glossy lustre just acquired a bit of tarnish.
Instead of acknowledging that, you have chosen to direct your ire at her last "older" bf.
Be careful here.

[schlumpy]

31 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Ah.
You no doubt have a lot invested in this.

It does give one a rather different perspective. Does it not one?

[somewhatperplexed]

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Ah.
You no doubt have a lot invested in this.
She is a shiny prize.
Although you may not want to admit it, a bit of that glossy lustre just acquired a bit of tarnish.
Instead of acknowledging that, you have chosen to direct your ire at her last "older" bf.
Be careful here.

If you were to meet us, I doubt that you'd ever think there's much of an age difference between us. I never cared about her age apart from whether it affected her emotional maturity early on. We have always had a relationship of equals. If anything, I abhor the idea of someone being a shiny prize...Or that previous relationships can tarnish a person. Damage, injure, hurt, yes. Tarnish? Never. 

The only investment if you would call it that is the amount of work you'd put into any other normal, healthy and hopefully long-lasting relationship. She's not just my partner. She's also my best friend. She's like family to me. I invested what you'd invest into being with a person you see yourself with for good. 

8 hours ago, schlumpy said:

It does give one a rather different perspective. Does it not one?

See above.

Edited February 26, 2020 by somewhatperplexed