What have I done? I am so hurt.

[Prudence V]

On 3/23/2020 at 7:32 PM, mark clemson said:

Respectfully would say the real risk is extremely low.

Extreme cases are rare, but less extreme cases notsomuch. BWs going round to the OW’s workplace and creating a scene. BWs trying to get the Ow fired, of the OW and MM work together. BWs trying to damage the OW’s reputation professionally, in the community, or online - all par for the course, on these boards. 

[mark clemson]

@Prudence V Yes, that is true, IMO. There does appear to be lots of "reputation" and other social risk, including jobs sometimes.

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Extreme cases are rare, but less extreme cases notsomuch. BWs going round to the OW’s workplace and creating a scene. BWs trying to get the Ow fired, of the OW and MM work together. BWs trying to damage the OW’s reputation professionally, in the community, or online - all par for the course, on these boards. 

Even these are rare. How many BS out of the millions around the world actually post on here? The proportion of these is very low. Add to that the fact that very few threads on here even mention the type of thing you talk about, and the risk is minimal. At worst, it usually amount to nothing worse than a nasty email or phone call.
 

[Amethyst68]

10 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Extreme cases are rare, but less extreme cases notsomuch. BWs going round to the OW’s workplace and creating a scene. BWs trying to get the Ow fired, of the OW and MM work together. BWs trying to damage the OW’s reputation professionally, in the community, or online - all par for the course, on these boards. 

Where on these boards? I've been reading a long time and quite frankly haven't seen very few of what you've describing. I've read some BS describe how their BS had to face the consequences of having an affair with someone they they work with but that's what a consequence is. The AP is not blameless and if they choose to flout their workplace HR restrictions then they face the consequences like everyone else.

I've read just as many of the AP tormenting the BS. Thankfully, neither is a common phenomenon.

I've said it before here, the only people I ever see don't tell are previous or active cheaters.

[mark clemson]

To be fair to @Prudence V there is a woman who believes she may be a BW plotting how to ruin a possible OW's life (if she can) right now on this board. So it does happen. There was another one a few months back that I distinctly recall as well. So it does happen. Not sure how common it actually is, but I suspect it's quite a bit more common than violence. "Tell the AP's partner" is common advice on this board (and apparently among some MC's who specialize in infidelity as well). That doesn't apply here, and can be done with either ethical or vengeful intent, but either way it can sometimes have a very significant negative impact on the AP's life (e.g. divorce or similar).

Expose the affair at a place of work is also common advice given here (or used to be at least) and again can have major consequences for an AP.

Whether you agree with those practices or not, there is a lot of social risk IF a BS decides to do either. So, my sense is Prudence is correct. Even a 5% chance of "having your life blown up" is kind of major IMO.

[2BGoodAgain]

3 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

To be fair to @Prudence V there is a woman who believes she may be a BW plotting how to ruin a possible OW's life (if she can) right now on this board. So it does happen. There was another one a few months back that I distinctly recall as well. So it does happen. Not sure how common it actually is, but I suspect it's quite a bit more common than violence. "Tell the AP's partner" is common advice on this board (and apparently among some MC's who specialize in infidelity as well). That doesn't apply here, and can be done with either ethical or vengeful intent, but either way it can sometimes have a very significant negative impact on the AP's life (e.g. divorce or similar).

Expose the affair at a place of work is also common advice given here (or used to be at least) and again can have major consequences for an AP.

Whether you agree with those practices or not, there is a lot of social risk IF a BS decides to do either. So, my sense is Prudence is correct. Even a 5% chance of "having your life blown up" is kind of major IMO.

I can understand the need for vengence, if your AP ruined your life by exploding it to your spouse/work/etc... some might call it karma, and some may say anyone involved in the affair deserves it...As the saying goes, when you play with fire... you're likely to get burned... 

But if such an act wasn't visited upon you, I don't believe one should blow up someone else's life... it may feel fair, for the hurt you're in, but in all honestly... they'll most likely destroy their lives on their own... if someone does this, it only ruins that person's heart long term... no matter how satisfying it may feel short term... do it for yourself, if not for the AP.

having said THAT... when you play with fire... you can only blame yourself if your life gets blown up unexpectedly.

The only redeeming side, i see in not blowing up the AP's life... other than your own salvation of your heart... is possible redemption... not all affairs end in divorce or a marriage with further deception/affairs... some survive it and can potentially become better for it... presuming there is full disclosure and a committed change of course... but that road to redemption... varies from couple to couple...

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

I've said it before here, the only people I ever see don't tell are previous or active cheaters.

I am often in the "don't tell" camp and I am not a previous or active cheater.
I feel the advice needs to be tailored to the circumstances.
Ruining a marriage and splitting  up families "just because" or for "revenge" is not necessarily the go to or the perfect solution to infidelity.
Adults can dole out revenge on each other if they want to, but when kids are involved, its not really very fair.

[pepperbird]

15 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I am often in the "don't tell" camp and I am not a previous or active cheater.
I feel the advice needs to be tailored to the circumstances.
Ruining a marriage and splitting  up families "just because" or for "revenge" is not necessarily the go to or the perfect solution to infidelity.
Adults can dole out revenge on each other if they want to, but when kids are involved, its not really very fair.

I'm not sure if you're a BS or not, but unless you have been, it's not a good idea to stay "just for the kids" after an affair. I really believe it is better for a BS to do some work on themselves to see if they can move past the cheating. Some can't, and staying together just creates a toxic environment for the children. Many parents foolishly assume the kids will never know, but really, children aren't that stupid. They pick up on things, and often, blame themslves.

Just my opinion, but for a BS with children, to see a successful reconciliation, it has to be seen as a family issue. Counselling as a family is important, and a BS also has to consider what the stress of their spouses actions can have on them. I'm not saying that the family counselling needs to include that there was an affair, but it can help create a better chance of success.

Some can separate the process of reconciliation from their kids, some can't. I've heard of BS reactions ranging from simply walking away to reconciliations to depression and even suicides. Each couple will be different.

[Starswillshine]

I tried because of the kids, and I left because of the kids. When your 5 year old says, "You know, I can hear from upstairs...." we had a fairly large home. Our bedroom was downstairs tucked on the opposite side from their rooms which were all upstairs. They heard the crying, the arguments. They were also witness to DDay as it happened in front of my kids in a confined space. I wish I could be strong and hold my composure, but i was not able. I'll never be able to forgive myself for that. I wanted to show my kids that our family was worth fighting for. But in the end, I also needed to show my daughters they are worthy of respect and to not roll over when disrespected. It matter how I handled the situation... it matter for my children. It is quite sad that many married people do not think about their own children during their "adventures". 

[pepperbird]

16 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

I tried because of the kids, and I left because of the kids. When your 5 year old says, "You know, I can hear from upstairs...." we had a fairly large home. Our bedroom was downstairs tucked on the opposite side from their rooms which were all upstairs. They heard the crying, the arguments. They were also witness to DDay as it happened in front of my kids in a confined space. I wish I could be strong and hold my composure, but i was not able. I'll never be able to forgive myself for that. I wanted to show my kids that our family was worth fighting for. But in the end, I also needed to show my daughters they are worthy of respect and to not roll over when disrespected. It matter how I handled the situation... it matter for my children. It is quite sad that many married people do not think about their own children during their "adventures". 

sometimes, having the strength to fight for your family means having the strength to walk away. it can still be a family- a mother, father, kids. I can understand the process of working through the end of a marriage the way you did. You know you tried your best to make it work.

[sandylee1]

From the sound of things, it seems like this MM has always messed his wife around and she's allowed it. 

Loyalty doesn't seem to be his thing. 

 

She got pregnant and he was still seeing other people, before he decided he wanted his child to live with both parents. 

 

He hasn't changed from his early days.  He's still incapable of being with one woman.

 

OP . I do think you grew up around a group of men who constantly cheated  ..saying they were players is really minimising it...but we human beings are a product of our environment.

 

Your narrative of how you would treat a man really made me shudder...it sounds so much like a stepford wife talking....it was really chilling. 

Everything you write indicates that he is a poor victim,  trapped in the marriage and you are his source of happiness. You are his rescuer, he is the victim and his wife is most likely the persecutor... Google the drama triangle. 

 

I was so shocked to read you thought it was acceptable for him to put her in rented accomodation and retain custody off their children. I don't know if he really did say this to her....if he did, then surely she knows he doesn't want her as a wife anymore. 

There's no bigger hint to tell you your husband doesn't want you, than  proposing you move out and leave him as primary carer of your children .

You don't suggest this if you're a happy man...so why would he really be that bothered if she knew? Hes 60% unhappy and 40% just tolerates it.

You normalise his actions,  because you come from the same cloth.

He should just propose an open marriage, while they remain as coparents, till the kids are older.

 

[JimmyNorth]

16 hours ago, sandylee1 said:

From the sound of things, it seems like this MM has always messed his wife around and she's allowed it. 

Loyalty doesn't seem to be his thing. 

 

She got pregnant and he was still seeing other people, before he decided he wanted his child to live with both parents. 

 

He hasn't changed from his early days.  He's still incapable of being with one woman.

 

OP . I do think you grew up around a group of men who constantly cheated  ..saying they were players is really minimising it...but we human beings are a product of our environment.

 

Your narrative of how you would treat a man really made me shudder...it sounds so much like a stepford wife talking....it was really chilling. 

Everything you write indicates that he is a poor victim,  trapped in the marriage and you are his source of happiness. You are his rescuer, he is the victim and his wife is most likely the persecutor... Google the drama triangle. 

 

I was so shocked to read you thought it was acceptable for him to put her in rented accomodation and retain custody off their children. I don't know if he really did say this to her....if he did, then surely she knows he doesn't want her as a wife anymore. 

There's no bigger hint to tell you your husband doesn't want you, than  proposing you move out and leave him as primary carer of your children .

You don't suggest this if you're a happy man...so why would he really be that bothered if she knew? Hes 60% unhappy and 40% just tolerates it.

You normalise his actions,  because you come from the same cloth.

He should just propose an open marriage, while they remain as coparents, till the kids are older.

 

I wouldn’t say OP has a stepford wife mentality. I think that she is believing MM that he is really not connected with BS at home and is just maintaining peace at the moment.

While it’s true that you should always try to at least save the marriage, it could be that this MM just doesn’t have that love anymore. He probably is a good guy and doesn’t want start drama, but what he doesn’t understand is he already started it without BS knowing. MM should really start a proper divorce and pursue OP and begin his next chapter if he really wants to live a happy life with OP. 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, JimmyNorth said:

MM should really start a proper divorce and pursue OP and begin his next chapter if he really wants to live a happy life with OP. 

Yes he and other MM SHOULD do that, but that is not usually really what they want.
They want the cosy family life at home and an OW on the side.
In order to keep the OW interested, they spin a whole load of lies about "a happy ever after".
She falls hook line and sinker and then the excuses start as to why he isn't leaving...
His wife is in the bank, his OW is in the bank, what's not to like?

[hissecret]

On 3/29/2020 at 11:46 AM, sandylee1 said:

From the sound of things, it seems like this MM has always messed his wife around and she's allowed it. 

Loyalty doesn't seem to be his thing. 

 

She got pregnant and he was still seeing other people, before he decided he wanted his child to live with both parents. 

 

He hasn't changed from his early days.  He's still incapable of being with one woman.

 

OP . I do think you grew up around a group of men who constantly cheated  ..saying they were players is really minimising it...but we human beings are a product of our environment.

 

Your narrative of how you would treat a man really made me shudder...it sounds so much like a stepford wife talking....it was really chilling. 

Everything you write indicates that he is a poor victim,  trapped in the marriage and you are his source of happiness. You are his rescuer, he is the victim and his wife is most likely the persecutor... Google the drama triangle. 

 

I was so shocked to read you thought it was acceptable for him to put her in rented accomodation and retain custody off their children. I don't know if he really did say this to her....if he did, then surely she knows he doesn't want her as a wife anymore. 

There's no bigger hint to tell you your husband doesn't want you, than  proposing you move out and leave him as primary carer of your children .

You don't suggest this if you're a happy man...so why would he really be that bothered if she knew? Hes 60% unhappy and 40% just tolerates it.

You normalise his actions,  because you come from the same cloth.

He should just propose an open marriage, while they remain as coparents, till the kids are older.

 

Thank you for your response and opinion. Very far fetched but appreciated nonetheless! How does one CHEAT if they are not committed? How does one CHEAT when they can date whomever they want whether that be multiple people or 1 person. I know people in their 50's that date multiple people, trying to find the one they want to actually want to spend their latter years with. Very linear way of thinking. There are no broken promises, no projecting futures. Again a player is someone that is actually committed to one, and has multiple people that think they are committed. She got pregnant knowing they were just dating just as she had the option to date others as well. When DATING you don't have to be loyal to anyone. 

Again, I have a son and I want him to sow his wild oats as long as he being truthful to who he is dating. I want him to focus on himself and have fun and get to know people safely and responsibly.  

Actually I grew up around men that DATED women and then when it became serious with one, they went into a committed relationship with said woman. From there, marriage either happened or it didn't but with no cheating involved. Including my veteran WWII grandfather who wrote multiple letters to numerous women (army dating back then) figured out my grandmother was the one and they were married for 56 years until death tore them apart. So your assumption is absolutely incorrect. 

I wouldn't call it stepford wife, would I do everything that I said, absolutely, because thats who I am as a person. It's how I love, and it's how I treat a man I am with. I love it. Again, raised by a southern grandfather and taught how to cater to your man which again I LOVE TO DO. But also a firecracker who will curse you to the point where you would call for your own mother. Balance.

Hmm I don't think anyone is a victim. lol I am very realistic. Again I have had my own experiences. Everyone in this story has played their part. Whatever woes their relationship entails most likely concerns both of their behaviors. I am sure she hates some things he does and vice versa. There are always 3 sides to every story. I would hope I am not his source of happiness. That's a huge responsibility that actually no one should take on in any relationship. I am pretty sure both of them have those roles you speak of. It always takes two to tango. 

He absolutely did offer that to her due to her finances and due to the children always being with him. A very acceptable offer to me. She would of still been taken care and nothing would have changed as she is never with the kids anyway. And I am sure she knew before that was proposed, he was unhappy but what woman would leave if you make pennies to his dollar, never had to pay a bill in your life and has been taken care of. You would stay right there because who would supplement your income? How would you survive? So you sit, and you suck it up.  

I don't normalize anything. It is what it is.

 

 

[hissecret]

15 hours ago, elaine567 said:

In order to keep the OW interested, they spin a whole load of lies about "a happy ever after".
She falls hook line and sinker and then the excuses start as to why he isn't leaving...
 

That is unfortunate! 

[hissecret]

17 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I wouldn’t say OP has a stepford wife mentality. I think that she is believing MM that he is really not connected with BS at home and is just maintaining peace at the moment.

While it’s true that you should always try to at least save the marriage, it could be that this MM just doesn’t have that love anymore. He probably is a good guy and doesn’t want start drama, but what he doesn’t understand is he already started it without BS knowing. MM should really start a proper divorce and pursue OP and begin his next chapter if he really wants to live a happy life with OP. 

Definitely not a stepford wife mentality. It's how I treated my ex. It's just how I love, I nurture, I cater to my man! And I love doing it! It makes me happy!
And I know all about maintaining peace. because that is what I did for YEARS! But it wears and tears on you. 

I really want him to figure out him. He is a very good guy and I am his friend first. I want him to find his true happiness in everything that he does. If he wants to divorce, I want him to do it for him, but I definitely wouldn't rush him. In my old relationship, no one could of rushed me, it had to happen in my own time. Your own time is always the right time!  

[pepperbird]

On 3/31/2020 at 1:53 AM, hissecret said:

Definitely not a stepford wife mentality. It's how I treated my ex. It's just how I love, I nurture, I cater to my man! And I love doing it! It makes me happy!
And I know all about maintaining peace. because that is what I did for YEARS! But it wears and tears on you. 

I really want him to figure out him. He is a very good guy and I am his friend first. I want him to find his true happiness in everything that he does. If he wants to divorce, I want him to do it for him, but I definitely wouldn't rush him. In my old relationship, no one could of rushed me, it had to happen in my own time. Your own time is always the right time!  

Sorry, but I don't think you are his friend, and that's okay. You don't have to be.