What have I done? I am so hurt.

[Hip Pocket]

On 3/7/2020 at 1:36 PM, Redhead14 said:

Thank whoever outed you two because now you know that you weren't a girlfriend or dating or whatever you want to call it . . . you were his side piece and his priority is his wife/family in spite of whatever is going on in that family.  Not only that, he more or less put you on the back burner until he convinces his wife that he's ended it with you and she starts feeling comfortable with him again.  So, you just go ahead and keep yourself in limbo for an indefinite period of time or until he gets so horny that he decides to take a chance.  Or, try to salvage your dignity by blocking, deleting, forgetting, forever and find yourself a man who is really into you and wants to make you a priority.

How does outing someone prove she is a side piece? Where’s the logic in that? Since you are a red head should I assume you are also a step child? Kinda the same faulty reasoning.
 

Let’s put the insults away and have a constructive conversation. 
 

I’m glad he got in touch and that you two are figuring things out. I’m also glad to know a bit about your own back story and that you’re aware of how difficult it can be to break away from a long term R involving children. You’ve BTDT and don’t see this from a naive single OW POV. (Not that all OW are naive but some nonOW here like to see SOW that way). I don’t see you as waiting and pining for your MM, I see you as a strong woman who is enjoying her EMR for what it can give her right now, in the midst of figuring out her own next steps. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed language

[Redhead14]

9 hours ago, Hip Pocket said:

HS, I’m sure you already know a side piece doesn’t get a follow up call, the back story, and plans for future dates. I’m glad he got in touch and that you two are figuring things out.

His response by putting her on the back burner and telling her they've got to "lay low" for a while instead of reassuring her in some way tells her how low of a priority she was to him.  He wants her to be waiting for him so he can sneek back around whenever it's convenient for HIM and, therefore, follow up calls are nothing but "placeholder" attempts.  I hope she doesn't fall for this.  She knows he treated her poorly by his reaction deep down or she would not be asking the questions. 

I'm sorry if the way I put things seems harsh.  But, I've found that being straight up about the way things are really likely to be is what people need  to hear because coddling doesn't teach much.  We are dealing with adults who are dealing with adult situations, if they can't handle the truth, then they shouldn't be putting themselves in positions like this.  When you set yourself up for possible, even likely failure, you don't get to have your hand held and ego stroked.

If he wanted to do right by her, he would have been a man and said, "hey, I'm sorry but there's a lot going on here and I'm finding that I can't deal with all of that and be able to treat you the way you deserve to be treated and give you what you need.  We need to go our separate ways.  I don't want you waiting for me when there is a world of great guys out there who can be available for you now and give you what you need".  Instead he wants to continue keeping her at his beck and call for an indefinite period of time. While throwing breadcrumbs at her.  I hope she doesn't keep eating them.  She deserves better and she should do better than date married men. 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Redhead14

[Hip Pocket]

2 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

His response by putting her on the back burner and telling her they've got to "lay low" for a while instead of reassuring her in some way tells her how low of a priority she was to him.  He wants her to be waiting for him so he can sneek back around whenever it's convenient for HIM and, therefore, follow up calls are nothing but "placeholder" attempts.  I hope she doesn't fall for this.  She knows he treated her poorly by his reaction deep down or she would not be asking the questions. 

I'm sorry if the way I put things seems harsh.  But, I've found that being straight up about the way things are really likely to be is what people need  to hear because coddling doesn't teach much.  We are dealing with adults who are dealing with adult situations, if they can't handle the truth, then they shouldn't be putting themselves in positions like this.  When you set yourself up for possible, even likely failure, you don't get to have your hand held and ego stroked.

If he wanted to do right by her, he would have been a man and said, "hey, I'm sorry but there's a lot going on here and I'm finding that I can't deal with all of that and be able to treat you the way you deserve to be treated and give you what you need.  We need to go our separate ways.  I don't want you waiting for me when there is a world of great guys out there who can be available for you now and give you what you need".  Instead he wants to continue keeping her at his beck and call for an indefinite period of time. While throwing breadcrumbs at her.  I hope she doesn't keep eating them.  She deserves better and she should do better than date married men. 

 

I’m sorry you feel stuck in such archaic thinking and also that you’re stuck on a support board for OP when clearly you have no intension to support this population. Perhaps you are more suited to post on the Infidelity boards.
 

There are no rule books for MM to follow when there is a Dday so it’s all figured out as we go along. HS and MM have figured this out and are writing their own rule book. Yes, another affair survives a Dday! I love when two people can overcome obstacles no matter the odds. Easy to do when M, not so much in an EMR.

[Redhead14]

13 hours ago, Hip Pocket said:

Since you are a red head should I assume you are also a step child? Kinda the same faulty reasoning.
 

Larry the Cable Guy has beaten this line of humor/insult to the point of being irrelevant . . .

1 hour ago, Hip Pocket said:

I’m sorry you feel stuck in such archaic thinking

So progressive thinking is about ignoring the morality and associated trappings of seeing a married man and telling someone what they want to hear rather than the truth and encouraging them to turn away from it in order to help ensure that they don't allow themselves to be hurt any further?  No thanks.  I'm with the all of the other posters in this thread who have said the  same things I have.  The OP can choose to follow the observation and advice given by the majority here or she can do like so many people do . . . they will go to 10 doctors until they get to the one doctor who gives them the diagnosis/prescription they want to hear, rather than deal with the real issue/disease and work toward a cure and/or find relief.  In her case, the truth will set her free and hopefully she won't waste another minute of her life on this guy. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Redhead14

[Fletch Lives]

Well, you are having an affair with a married man. Did you really expect this to be a normal, problem-free relationship? Really?! Seriously?!

If you date a married man, be prepared for a life of quiet desperation.

(on a side note: I wish the abbreviations would stop. It's poor writing. Write it out lazy people.)

[preraph]

2 hours ago, Hip Pocket said:

I’m sorry you feel stuck in such archaic thinking and also that you’re stuck on a support board for OP when clearly you have no intension to support this population.

You can't help people who won't help themselves.  There is one big glaring obvious problem, and that is he's married, and there is one big obvious solution, and that is to stop dating him since he's married and intent on staying that way.  To focus on picking through the details and try to fix this little thing or that is like the person who decides to give up meat hoping it will fix them when heroin is what they really need to stop. 

[Hip Pocket]

6 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

Larry the Cable Guy has beaten this line of humor/insult to the point of being irrelevant . . .

So progressive thinking is about ignoring the morality and associated trappings of seeing a married man and telling someone what they want to hear rather than the truth and encouraging them to turn away from it in order to help ensure that they don't allow themselves to be hurt any further?  No thanks.  I'm with the all of the other posters in this thread who have said the  same things I have.  The OP can choose to follow the observation and advice given by the majority here or she can do like so many people do . . . they will go to 10 doctors until they get to the one doctor who gives them the diagnosis/prescription they want to hear, rather than deal with the real issue/disease and work toward a cure and/or find relief.  In her case, the truth will set her free and hopefully she won't waste another minute of her life on this guy. 

First of all I don’t watch Larry the Cable Guy and second of all if it makes sense then it is relevant. 
 

HS asked this question in her OP: “I have been reading here and there and I would love to get some insight on my story from those that have experienced what I am going through.”

So if you have not been involved with an EMR then your offers of advice to leave her MM alone are not appropriate. 
 

HS, FWIW I think you should indeed be grateful that someone outed you both because it’s taught you two how to communicate and work through this. That’s big since there are no rule books on secret Rs. You two will be that much stronger when another curve ball is thrown, just as in any R. 

[hissecret]

20 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I may be able to give an insight from a MM perspective.

I was in somewhat of a similar situation. I’m willing to bet that it’s true that he most likely lost the passion for his wife. Only he knows why it died or why it fizzled out. Your MM most likely really is wanting to be with somebody fresh and new that “gets him” and treats him like a king. BUT....there’s a strong chain that prevents him from leaving his wife, even though the passion is gone. I’m also willing to bet, that while he may be having sex with her still, it’s most likely sparingly and cannot compete with the intensity that you guys have. 

Now, I’m regards to his recent actions, I would venture to say that he is in a very confused state at the moment. At first I was thinking the “people found out” thing was fake and just him trying to tone the affair down as he may be second guessing it. If he really likes you, trust me, he will not let you go! Even if there are a few days of silence. He knows you are stuck on him hard and won’t go anywhere. You can test this by not replying to him for days, or even tell him you are moving on. If you are what he really wants, he will Wake up!

if I read this right, sounds like your affair has only been a few months? If so, give it some time because he has to process all this. He is lying to his wife and is trying not to rock any boats at the moment. But at the same time, he is ALWYAS looking forward to having you in his arms and now releasing his pent up passion that has been tucked away for years.

Affairs suck, I hated the way mine started and the way I handled it. I should have divorced first and then went full blast with my OW. But of course, I was confused, didn’t want to rock any boats and trying to enjoy my OW while keeping the family intact. It was all a lie though, I was not happy at home. I could not really enjoy any family functions. My OW was always on my mind. Unfortunately, I treated my OW very selfishly, like a side piece, even though I REALLY DIDNT think of her like that. But that’s what it was. And I was also hurting myself with the stupid double life I was living. 

Your MM will reach the fork in the road hopefully soon and do the right thing where he will truly choose and treat his chosen woman as a queen and live a happy life. If he is no longer in love with his wife, then let her go and find happiness!

Maybe you can show him this response and have him read it. Ask him if it hits home.

Thank you so much @JimmyNorth for your insight! It takes a brave man to realize the things that you have realized about yourself, past and present relationships and to provide the insight that you have! So thank you again,  truly do appreciate it! 

He definitely has lost his passion and the romanticism he once held for his wife. He has been completely transparent with me in his reasonings of what has gone wrong and all the reasons that he stays.

I definitely thought it was a fake story as well! How it randomly came about especially when hours prior we were good. The message that I received threw me for a loop, which is why I came on to post. It was a state of confusion and uncertainty. And not too long after I posted, I received correspondence and the details of it all. He  initially didn't know how to react and he was just spewing how it went about vs really talking to me about it. (We have now discussed that is not great resolution tactics lol). 

Yes it has been only a couple of months.I do understand the processing of it all! I wasn't looking for him and he definitely wasn't looking for me. Life happens. We are compatible, we have a connection and it's not based on sexual encounters. I really do not want him to leave his " family" for a couple of months of compatibility and bliss because if I was him, I WOULD NOT! lol But like I tell him, he does deserves a true shot at happiness and he doesn't have to commit to unhappiness for the sake of but from what I know, most men do..

The side piece part...ahh yes I do not consider myself a side piece, if we really want to take in account the "side piece" portion. Her and I are BOTH side pieces. lol She is there to keep their family unit intact and I am there for the romantic, intimate real portion. So we both are that. People definitely may see this differently and criticize but it is what it is. I'd rather have a mans heart than his property. I have my own. 

If we get to a place of him reaching that fork in the road, I will be all for it..

At the end of the day, we actually are friends first, and I do everything in a friends first manner....

Thank you again!!!!

[hissecret]

20 hours ago, Hip Pocket said:

How does outing someone prove she is a side piece? Where’s the logic in that? Since you are a red head should I assume you are also a step child? Kinda the same faulty reasoning.
 

Let’s put the insults away and have a constructive conversation. 
 

HS, I’m sure you already know a side piece doesn’t get a follow up call, the back story, and plans for future dates. I’m glad he got in touch and that you two are figuring things out. I’m also glad to know a bit about your own back story and that you’re aware of how difficult it can be to break away from a long term R involving children. You’ve BTDT and don’t see this from a naive single OW POV. (Not that all OW are naive but some nonOW here like to see SOW that way). I don’t see you as waiting and pining for your MM, I see you as a strong woman who is enjoying her EMR for what it can give her right now, in the midst of figuring out her own next steps. 

@Hip Pocket Thank you again!!! And yes it is so difficult to break away from such a long term relationship including children. There are SO MANY layers. And the problem I have with some responses is that people really speak as if it is extremely easy. The mental games that you play with yourself, all the things that you are weighing in on...sooo much! I would NEVER make him make a decision like that until he was good and ready. NO ONE could have told me to leave mine. NO ONE! 

I am enjoying it for what it is, friendship, connection, compatibility and the genuine romanticism of it all! 

[preraph]

If you really want to know how much substance there is there, all you have to do is stop having sex with him and see what happens.

[hissecret]

11 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

His response by putting her on the back burner and telling her they've got to "lay low" for a while instead of reassuring her in some way tells her how low of a priority she was to him.  He wants her to be waiting for him so he can sneek back around whenever it's convenient for HIM and, therefore, follow up calls are nothing but "placeholder" attempts.  I hope she doesn't fall for this.  She knows he treated her poorly by his reaction deep down or she would not be asking the questions. 

I'm sorry if the way I put things seems harsh.  But, I've found that being straight up about the way things are really likely to be is what people need  to hear because coddling doesn't teach much.  We are dealing with adults who are dealing with adult situations, if they can't handle the truth, then they shouldn't be putting themselves in positions like this.  When you set yourself up for possible, even likely failure, you don't get to have your hand held and ego stroked.

If he wanted to do right by her, he would have been a man and said, "hey, I'm sorry but there's a lot going on here and I'm finding that I can't deal with all of that and be able to treat you the way you deserve to be treated and give you what you need.  We need to go our separate ways.  I don't want you waiting for me when there is a world of great guys out there who can be available for you now and give you what you need".  Instead he wants to continue keeping her at his beck and call for an indefinite period of time. While throwing breadcrumbs at her.  I hope she doesn't keep eating them.  She deserves better and she should do better than date married men. 

 

Hi @Redhead14 thank you so much for your advise and insight! I appreciate all point of views!

His "lay low" was really his own personal lay low, he was pissed. Not pissed that someone came to him about, pissed that he thought that I did something underhanded. The way the information was presented to him took him aback and he was very angry in which I can understand. If it was me, I probably would have never talked to him for about 5 months lol, because it is easy for me to shut down first vs. talking.

Nothing is ever too harsh. I am straight shooter. So I expect the same! 

Definitely not breadcrumbs

 

[hissecret]

8 hours ago, Hip Pocket said:

I’m sorry you feel stuck in such archaic thinking and also that you’re stuck on a support board for OP when clearly you have no intension to support this population. Perhaps you are more suited to post on the Infidelity boards.
 

There are no rule books for MM to follow when there is a Dday so it’s all figured out as we go along. HS and MM have figured this out and are writing their own rule book. Yes, another affair survives a Dday! I love when two people can overcome obstacles no matter the odds. Easy to do when M, not so much in an EMR.

@Hip Pocket Definitely making our own rule book! Love this! 

[hissecret]

5 minutes ago, preraph said:

If you really want to know how much substance there is there, all you have to do is stop having sex with him and see what happens.

Hi @preraph! Thank you again for your response! 

In full transparency, due to our schedules, children.. sex hasn't been on the table but that hasn't stopped our intimacy. We usually meet for lunch, 10 minutes before work to give each other a hug, a kiss and to say good morning in person, 30 minutes after work. We've gone to the park to feed the ducks, the beach to watch a couple of sunsets, gone to the gym to work out together. When i go out of town for work, he takes me to the airport just so we can kiss and hug before I get on a plane. Things of that nature..

 

I know the majority of affairs are I suppose based on sex and that alone, but again we were friends first before we even went there. That just made it even better..

[Hip Pocket]

29 minutes ago, preraph said:

If you really want to know how much substance there is there, all you have to do is stop having sex with him and see what happens.

When this happens in a M a man goes and finds it elsewhere. When it happens in an EMR he is often happy enough to just hold the woman he loves in bed or to hold her hand at a biopsy or whatever. In my EMR we once went as long as six months without sleeping together but his love was undying and faithful. So I agree, I think it’s a great idea for HS to cut off her MM sexually—she may just find that his love is deeper for her than she thought! 

[hissecret]

3 minutes ago, Hip Pocket said:

When this happens in a M a man goes and finds it elsewhere. When it happens in an EMR he is often happy enough to just hold the woman he loves in bed or to hold her hand at a biopsy or whatever. In my EMR we once went as long as six months without sleeping together but his love was undying and faithful. So I agree, I think it’s a great idea for HS to cut off her MM sexually—she may just find that his love is deeper for her than she thought! 

Absolutely! Our intimacy is not based on sex as we haven't done that in awhile! We love hugs, kisses, touches on the cheek and neck and saying nothing while we are with each other! 

[hissecret]

4 minutes ago, S2B said:

You are settling. Anyone needing to be a secret is settling.

you know it. He knows it. It’s tragic you’re wasting time on him.

Thank you for your response! He is my secret too and I don't plan on telling anyone about him. Not because I don't want too or it isn't accepted, I just don't want too. We are too early to scream from the rooftops. 

Settling, is being in a relationship for as many years as I was, being unhappy and doing it for the sake of society and expectations. That was settling for sure

 

[preraph]

Well I am really confused because an answer to one of my posts you said sex has not been on the table, and then just now you said you used to have sex but aren't anymore. So as you say in the interest of full disclosure, maybe you better clear that up because there's a big difference between friends who aren't having sex and friends who are.

[Hip Pocket]

15 minutes ago, S2B said:

You are settling. Anyone needing to be a secret is settling.

you know it. He knows it. It’s tragic you’re wasting time on him.

Settling for what? Settling for sweet moments? Settling for being the desired one? Settling for a bond like no other? If that’s settling then I’m all for it! Nothing tragic about that. 

[hissecret]

8 minutes ago, preraph said:

Well I am really confused because an answer to one of my posts you said sex has not been on the table, and then just now you said you used to have sex but aren't anymore. So as you say in the interest of full disclosure, maybe you better clear that up because there's a big difference between friends who aren't having sex and friends who are.

Hello! To be clear-of course we have had sex but as of the last hmm 2 months we haven't had the time. We use our time to really just talk about the most dumbest things to politics to our childhoods to laughing the whole time we are together and of course hugging, kisses, and touch each other in the face, stroke hair, beard..things that are so much more intimate than sex could ever be. Sex is the cherry on top for me  

[Hip Pocket]

2 minutes ago, hissecret said:

Hello! To be clear-of course we have had sex but as of the last hmm 2 months we haven't had the time. We use our time to really just talk about the most dumbest things to politics to our childhoods to laughing the whole time we are together and of course hugging, kisses, and touch each other in the face, stroke hair, beard..things that are so much more intimate than sex could ever be. Sex is the cherry on top for me  

Not to mention that you don’t owe anyone here full disclosure on anything. 
 

I love that you’re enjoying those sweet sweet moments. When all that faded in my M I was most certainly settling then. I will never settle again. 

[Robert]

** Note from moderation **

Let's keep the posts above the belt please, there is no reason for someone to post anything but helpful, civil posts.

Thanks

 

[Starswillshine]

I would say most affairs are NOT just about sex. I would say most affairs are more about something different. If we are all honest, long term marriages can get stale. It takes a lot of hard work to keep it exciting, but regardless of the work you put into it, it can never match those first few weeks, months, or even years. I think telling an OW that he only wants her for sex is doing her quite the disservice. It gives her false hope when she knows it is much more than sex. 

I believe it is possible to have a connection with more than one person. There are some people that stick around in a marriage that is stable enough, it is comfortable, they are happy enough, but it has been the same thing for years and years. And some new little thing comes along... and wife could actually be a more fun person, more adventurous, etc etc (not saying the case here) but the MM knows this, he has experienced it all with her many times over. He knows what gasp she will make when he touches her right there, he knows the crinkle in her nose when the bubbles hit her from the champagne (or whatever soda), etc. He knows those things. Nothing is new. It is comfort. Think of a home, you love it, it is so comforting, it is where you run to, etc. But after a few years, is it exciting? 

Affairs are exciting. It's new. The very nature of the affair makes it an extreme high that normal relationships do not have. I know a lot of people who have been in affairs and then all relationships seem lack luster in comparison afterwards. Quite the same way toxic relationships can be. Oh the thrill when it is good, but it is still toxic. 

Maybe he has zero passion with his wife. But maybe he does. Maybe it something far deeper than just passion. Maybe they hate each other. But maybe they love each other and have sex nightly. Maybe they dont. Who knows. I have heard people say well their mm has a separate room from their BS. And maybe that is true and maybe there is some sort of proof to this. But I know people who have different rooms as well... because one snores too loudly. But they go to bed in the same bed to have sex and snuggle. One of my best friends has this arrangement, and I can tell you, they are not lacking for sex. 

Part of relationships is being able to trust. I am unsure how anyone can trust someone who is lying to their spouses face day in and day out. It would be that lack of integrity that would caution me to proceed forward. 

There are people who are happy being the OW that is fine if and only if the wife also knows fully what is going on and knows that it is continuing to go on. My issue with it, if the wife is not aware of the situation, then there is a HUGE moral problem. A woman is living her life without full information and there is something wrong with that. I made HUGE life altering decisions when my xWH was in his affair. Had I known what was happening behind my back, I would have made different decisions that would not now leave my life at risk. 

[Timshel]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Part of relationships is being able to trust. I am unsure how anyone can trust someone who is lying to their spouses face day in and day out. It would be that lack of integrity that would caution me to proceed forward. 

 

I love this Starswillshine.  All relationships are based in trust.  People do their level, where they are.

[pepperbird]

The truth is no one knows what's going on in this guy's head but him. The only real truth anyone knows about him is that he finds cheating on a relationship partner to be an acceptable choice for him. If he didn't , he wouldn't be doing it.

op, you know yourself and what you are looking for. If you  think he's the one for you, you could be right. Protect your heart and don't make excuses for him just because he's married. If he does things you wouldn't tolerate in a single person but you will with him because he's married, that's not good. Set your boundaries and keep them. Don't let him convince you to push them back.

[JimmyNorth]

6 hours ago, pepperbird said:

The truth is no one knows what's going on in this guy's head but him. The only real truth anyone knows about him is that he finds cheating on a relationship partner to be an acceptable choice for him. If he didn't , he wouldn't be doing it.

op, you know yourself and what you are looking for. If you  think he's the one for you, you could be right. Protect your heart and don't make excuses for him just because he's married. If he does things you wouldn't tolerate in a single person but you will with him because he's married, that's not good. Set your boundaries and keep them. Don't let him convince you to push them back.

I’m gonna say that there is a possibility that this MM truly wants the OP. An easy way to test it is to threaten MM that you want to take a break from him and start exploring other options like dating other men. Watch what happens.....if he acts like a BS, then that’s a start in regards to him taking you seriously. 

I know that the OP may very well view this MM as her true match, soulmate or life partner. And it’s possible that this MM may view her the same way. I know it’s rare, but there are real life examples here of MM’s who go on to live a real relationship with their AP!

So, I’m not saying that we should cheer on OP to pursue a bad outcome with this MM, but maybe...just maybe there could be something real going on here!