She's Leaving Tomorrow

[Difficultstuff]

It's all got a bit heated in here...

I'm not going to pile on, I hear you when you say you've had a rough week. I understand from very tough personal experience the difficulties of close relatives attempting suicide, being hospitalized long and short term, living destructively, straining family dynamics. 

That said, I had a quick look at your old posts and it seems that even in 2017 people were advising that you were 'cheating' and to cut the cord. So maybe that'd be wise advice to take now - accept it as something special to you that is now ending, stop social media contact - it will make a difference, just not for a long while. Grieve. Rebuild what you can.

Either way, she will be gone tomorrow. It's out of your hands...which you'll have to accept.

[Amethyst68]

36 minutes ago, oldschoolromantic said:

I didn’t repost it in this room. I assume the forum did.

I'm having trouble with my phone, what I actually typed was

You're the one who posted in 'The other man/other woman' forum. Or are you saying your thread just mysteriously appeared here?

Oh and just ignore everything else I wrote. I'm beginning to wonder how difficult it is for your wife to feel connected to you!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

OP, I've had experience looking after the financial and medical affairs (not a pun) of a family member with severe mental illness. It is one of the most stressful things a person can experience. 

There are good people on this forum who genuinely want to help. Don't get discouraged. Keep posting. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel
Clarify illness

[S2B]

But you can’t be described as a great husband and father since YOU connected so deeply with another woman that you need to grieve her moving.

and you self describe yourself as a wonderful husband - how so when you’ve spent time and energy focusing on your OW instead of your wife? 
 

three years ago this community advised you to stop it! And you just continued on.

your wife’s mental issues surely could be caused by you not getting connected to HER! 

play that KISA - it makes you feel important - AND justify having an affair. None of it is right and you know it.

take the time to seek professional help. You’re version of “helping your wife” is WAY off base!

i agree - your wife shouldn’t be in the same home as your kids. if she committed suicide and the kids found her they would never be the same, ever.

you can’t be the one to monitor her 24/7 - get her additional help now - and make sure that help never stops for her.

the care you’re providing isn’t enough... she needs intensive professional outside help.

Ive never seen cheating help a spouse be healthier or happier for the one being cheated on. Think about that.

no matter how you expect to justify this - you’re cheating isn’t helping your spouse/marriage.

Any BS can sense the cheater has pulled away emotionally. 

[Grassman2017]

2 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

OP, I've had experience looking after the financial and medical affairs (not a pun) of a family member with severe mental illness. It is one of the most stressful things a person can experience. 

There are good people on this forum who genuinely want to help. Don't get discouraged. Keep posting. 

Thank you!!

[S2B]

Your original post barely mentioned your wife.

i get the feeling you don’t make connecting with her on any emotional level a priority.

try that first and foremost - and see how your wife responds.

 

[Alebo]

As I read the answers, I cant help, but the only thought in my head is THEY DONT UNDERSTAND. My mum had a severe depresion for several years and I can relate and I do understand. I was watching my father and his struggle....I saw the side effects of medication.... 

When people say that you shold focus on yor wife and try to work on the relationship... how,  maybe she doesnt (can not) cooperate, maybe the meds changed her...I dont know... we are only humans, some things cant be done. 

I think that we really can not and should not comment the OPs relationship with his wife. 

 

[S2B]

50 minutes ago, Alebo said:

As I read the answers, I cant help, but the only thought in my head is THEY DONT UNDERSTAND. My mum had a severe depresion for several years and I can relate and I do understand. I was watching my father and his struggle....I saw the side effects of medication.... 

When people say that you shold focus on yor wife and try to work on the relationship... how,  maybe she doesnt (can not) cooperate, maybe the meds changed her...I dont know... we are only humans, some things cant be done. 

I think that we really can not and should not comment the OPs relationship with his wife. 

 

Really? She is in the marriage. The marriage where he cheated.

not talking about her within the marriage just eliminates her even further from the relationship he is supposed to having with her.

this wouldn’t be productive to addressing the problems within his marriage.

last tine I checked cheating on a spouse doesn’t tend to make the family/marriage authentic and happy.

[Alebo]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

Really? She is in the marriage. The marriage where he cheated.

not talking about her within the marriage just eliminates her even further from the relationship he is supposed to having with her.

this wouldn’t be productive to addressing the problems within his marriage.

last tine I checked cheating on a spouse doesn’t tend to make the family/marriage authentic and happy.

No, I dont think cheating is the answer, but I can understand how or why he developed an attachment (feelings?) toward a woman in a gym. I belive it was an escape, and that he knows that. I empatize with him, now when she is leaving, I know its hard. But, as some of the posters already said, now he has a good chance to, unbiased, reevaluate the situation and seek healthier solutions. Work hard to find a connection with his wife (both of them are needed for that), insist and wait for better times, escape again, divorce?.....that is on him to resolve. What is best for him, his wife, and primarily his children? Is there a solution that fits all of them, where no one will  be hurt? 

His friend, or whatever she is, is leaving and he asked for support. What can I say, I feel for him and hope he cope with it well.

[ExpatInItaly]

I think this friend moving away has revealed the significant chasm growing in your marriage. It was already there, but this absence underscores how bad it actually has gotten. You feel empty because you don't feel you have anything to get excited about and look forward to, if I understand your posts correctly. 

You mention you and your wife both see therapists. Does this include any sort of marital therapy? No doubt she needed to attend to her mental health condition first and foremost, but as it sounds that it's being fairly well-managed now, this is perhaps the time to confront the fallout on your marriage. This attachment to someone else will likely happen again if reality of the marriage problems are not addressed on a significant level. The next woman you click with will fill the void again for a while, and lather, rinse, repeat. It's a risky venture, as the next woman could be a lot more open to exploring the connection on a different and more intimate level. 

Does your wife ever express her own feelings about the state of the relationship between you two? Do you think she has any inkling that you have been seeking comfort outside the marriage?

[pepperbird]

On 2/27/2020 at 5:20 PM, oldschoolromantic said:

Do you name call when you respond to women’s posts? I think calling me a “trapped” cheating coward...playing the victim” is a bit much. Are you married? Have children? Ever walk in on your spouse after she’s cut her wrist wide open because her first attempt to hang herself with your belt failed? Divorce isn’t something I’m going to take lightly. A coward? No. I just haven’t figured things out yet.

being married to someone with am mental illness is a hard roe to hoe.

[justwhoiam]

On 2/27/2020 at 6:52 PM, oldschoolromantic said:

I fell for my platonic friend. We're also both married to other people. ...talking to my wife is like talking to a wall. She had a mental break down a few years back and hasn't been the same. It's not her fault, but at the same time, it's hard for me.

I guess you don't have to justify yourself about why you developed a crush for this female friend. Also, as I've read all the posts in here, it proved to be useless for most readers. People's reactions are often based on their personal experiences, and it doesn't surprise me how some people feel a great deal of compassion for someone dealing with gender issues (that is all the hype nowadays) but none for someone dealing with a psychiatric patient. Not for the psychiatric patient, but for the carer.

You said you won't get attached to another woman again, but I guess it'll be difficult, because you're just human. We all need that kind of loving. Some can sublimate it with other things, but not everyone. Repressing your needs will just turn you into a depressed man yourself who will then have to resort to drugs. And that wouldn't be of any help for anyone.

Sometimes fantasy is all a man can have, and that can't be taken away from you.

[oldschoolromantic]

4 hours ago, justwhoiam said:

I guess you don't have to justify yourself about why you developed a crush for this female friend. Also, as I've read all the posts in here, it proved to be useless for most readers. People's reactions are often based on their personal experiences, and it doesn't surprise me how some people feel a great deal of compassion for someone dealing with gender issues (that is all the hype nowadays) but none for someone dealing with a psychiatric patient. Not for the psychiatric patient, but for the carer.

You said you won't get attached to another woman again, but I guess it'll be difficult, because you're just human. We all need that kind of loving. Some can sublimate it with other things, but not everyone. Repressing your needs will just turn you into a depressed man yourself who will then have to resort to drugs. And that wouldn't be of any help for anyone.

Sometimes fantasy is all a man can have, and that can't be taken away from you.

Thanks. This is pretty much why I stopped responding.

[Melrose78]

I seen situations like this develop. I've also seen how mental health can destroy a marriage. My parents.

Unless you live with someone that has servere mental health issues you can never understand.

My dad stayed with my mum. She tried to commit suicidal as well. She was on antidepressants and anti psychotic meds. And I always said, of he were to leave, I would understand. The whole family would understand.

Sounds time me like subconsciously this has become a self preservation mechanism. When there's so much negative going on, and there's nothing you can do, there's times without realising we find something else. To help support us. To help us feel a bit whole again.

But to stay in this marriage. It's not good for you and it's not good for your kids.

Kids aren't stupid. They know. And the outcome of staying can be way more harmful then you will ever realise.....

Edited March 2, 2020 by Melrose78

[Daisydooks]

On 2/29/2020 at 1:36 PM, oldschoolromantic said:

I'm always hesitant to bring up the mental illness in this forum, because unless you've experienced it first-hand, you don't understand it. And you clearly don't understand it. First of all, my wife attempted suicide on ONE occasion, although she tried multiple methods unsuccessfully before giving up. Your notion that I've buried my head in the sand is completely off-track. THE MINUTE I spot a warning sign that my wife may go off the rails, I send my children to their grandparents or somewhere safe. I have been the one to check her into the hospital on 3 occasions, and convince her that meds are crucial to her wellness, etc. The last time she got sick, I had a room reserved for her at the Chicago Behavioral Hospital hours before she was admitted. SHE HAS GOTTEN THE TREATMENT SHE HAS NEEDED.

The reason that mental illness is so stigmatized, is because the general population doesn't understand it. Think of it like any other illness. If you're treated properly, take the prescribed medication, and attend regular therapy, you can live a NORMAL life. But relapse is always a possibility. For the past 3 years, my wife has been perfectly healthy. No different from you or me. Just like everyone gets the flu, then we recover, there is always the chance that we will get sick again. So...could my wife have another breakdown? Yes. Is this a reason in and of itself to get a divorce or to remove her children from her life? Absolutely not. 

As for divorce...the main reason I haven't filed for divorce is because since she is healthy right now, taking her medications and going therapy, a judge would most likely grant her full custody of our children (maybe joint if I'm lucky). The problem is, there is the underlying fear of "what if we divorce and at some point down the road she has a breakdown. Will she get the help she needs. What effect will it have on my kids...and I can't be there to protect them. As you said, I am "the protector of the home." And I've done a damn fine job of it. My wife is alive today because of me, and my kids have been shielded from the worst of her illness...because of me and no one else.

As for me being a cheater and having an affair...you're grossly misrepresenting my friendship. This woman is someone I saw a few days a week at the gym, connected with, and that's it. We have never met outside the walls of the gym. We don't talk or text on the phone. We workout for a couple hours, talk, and THAT'S IT. I do the same with several guys at the gym that I've befriended as well. Am I having affairs with them too? The fact that I've connected with a woman other than my wife on more than a superficial level doesn't, in any way, make me cheater. Did I become a bit too attached. Yes. But it happened before I even knew it was happening. The whole point of my original post was to express my sadness about her removal from my life. That's all.

I wasn't going to respond to your reply, but it occurred to me that so many of you are REALLY QUICK to judge before actually digging into the core someone's post and addressing the heart of the issue. You said "you're worried about writing stupid posts about missing your AP who moves tomorrow." I'm not worried. My post is no more stupid than your's or anyone else's...and my feelings about missing my friend are just as valid as any other's. You have 357 posts. I have 15 over the course of 3 years! Is it possible that you and the like post so much because your live's are just as screwed up as mine and coming on here and berating others helps you feel like your life isn't nearly as bad as the rest of us?

I wanted help moving on...not saving my marriage. Maybe that will be another stupid post.

I've debated writing this as I have no intentions of hurting you, berating you or making you feel worse than your actions already have. Life sounds hard. Dont for one second think my comments are coming from a pedestal or high horse mentality where I am better. I have been you. I have been your children. With that said, you need help moving on. The problem with that is that is you'll always have a positive view of your OW because you're ending on a high note. Outside of taking time and being patient with yourself in her absense, you just need to feel what you're feeling. Have you spoken to your counselor about her? Can you? They may have some great insight for you in dealing with these emotions. 

You were pretty quick to throw the mental illness into the mix, so long as it provided a defense for your behaviour. Do not for one second think I'm ignorant or life has been just ducky. I'm not here to berate others. I will be honest and call a spade a spade BECAUSE life hasnt been perfect and because I've lived through hell. I hate what you're doing because not only did my mother do the exact same, but I am the adult version of the children you're raising. You can listen or you can hate me for it. We can talk about me and my life IF it helps you. Maybe it would? I'm an open book, so if it does help, I am willing to share more. 

You assume I havent lived through mental illness, (and addiction to boot,) based on my response to you. My stance is children shouldnt live through that and I believe that because I was your children, and then I became just like my mother/you. I will not stand idly by and watch it or subject children to it. Nowhere in anything I have said here stated I am better because _________. I'm not. I am not better than you whatsoever. I am far from perfect. If anything, I would beg you not to try to manage what is beyond your scope. 

It is unfair to kids to live with a messed up parent and one who rug sweeps issues and always tries to make it seem like nothing is wrong. My mom sheltered me as best she could, too. I gather you are doing your best with what you have. Thank you for taking the time to explain.  I chose a partner JUST like my father because I grew up with a mother like you. I grew up believing crazy was normal. I guarentee you dont want that/this for your kids. 

I chose it for myself in a partner because crazy and unstable was all I knew and saw in my FOO home. Do you want this for your son/daughter? Probably not.  It didn't stop at childhood. So dont think you can shelter them until they're old enough to move out and they will magically transform into happy and healthy individuals who navigate life properly. 

I loved both of my parents but wish they separated so we could all live more happily and without turmoil. Of course they wanted to shelter their kids from it, but it didnt work well. Dad was mentally ill and turned to addiction, and mom did her best while also engaging in unhealthy attachments outside her marriage, refusing to leave my father, but also not remaining faithful because she hated my father and wanted some glimmer of hope or happiness in her life.  She stayed because "she could protect us" that way. She did not.   

I refuse to raise children the way I myself was raised because one parent wouldnt leave a mentally unstable alcoholic and didnt deem my mental health important enough. He would have had zero access to me with his behaviour so her fears were not warranted. My parents were able to hide nothing. Kids arent stupid and I knew exactly what was up by the time I was 4. I knew dad wasnt ok or normal. I knew my mom was unhappy, very angry and sad inside. She had every reason to be, much like you. She was always on guard and never relaxed, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. She also chose to remain stuck. I come from a place of understanding more than you know. I knew staying at Nana and Papas in the middle of the week randomly was weird. I assume your kids arent stupid either. You dont strike me as a stupid man. 

So, I very much get it. I very much understand it from your childs point of view AND yours.  Living with my father affected me even beyond growing up though. I didnt just become healthy at 16 because dad got sober. The damage was done. I worry you feel you're covering your tracks and your kids dont know how messy this is. They might just.  Once I was old enough (16) to run off with the first man who treated me just a little bit better than my father did, I did so. I stayed in a not to great relationship with an addict and suffered years of nonsense and abuse due to his addiction (he was not that person sober much like your wife is probably really amazing when she is on meds and not suicidal, but was not a good person while drinking/drugging and not managing his depression, anxiety and bipolar.) Just like my father, he suffered from mental illness (we did manage to grow in our final years, got him medicated, and he was sober. Many trips to hospital during episodes of threatening suicide and even attempting suicide. Trips to the psych ward where he would stay for one day up to weeks at a time...  Treatment for addiction beyond treatment for mental illness where he was gone for months getting help. He went to numerous rehabs before finally something stuck. Counseling was a musy for us both.  The only thing I didnt stand by for was cheating after 12 years. After all I'd stood by for, that wasnt going to be the hill I died on. Do not for one second think I am ignorant and have not lived the utter hell you speak of, because you dont like my words. I just would never raise children the way my mother raised hers. She was terrified to leave someone who was unhealthy for her children to be around and I became my mother. Awesome, right??? When we raise children like this, we run the risk of them choosing the same or being the same. They mimic our lifestyles and behaviours. 

One thing I dont and wont support is cheating. Is your behaviour something you would continue in front of your wife? If she saw you interact with this woman, what would she think?  Or is this friendship something she doesnt know about? Would this OW be seen by your wife like a friendship you and your male friends have? If she is a friend, why can't you tell your wife how much you'll miss her? Would she understand or would this hurt her? You dont have to respond here. But ask yourself these things. Emotional affairs are very real. You came here to post about it. This isnt your typical male friendship.  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Daisydooks

[S2B]

Was this your first and ONLY inappropriate connection since you’ve been married?

how long is this marriage?

[oldschoolromantic]

13 hours ago, Daisydooks said:

I've debated writing this as I have no intentions of hurting you, berating you or making you feel worse than your actions already have. Life sounds hard. Dont for one second think my comments are coming from a pedestal or high horse mentality where I am better. I have been you. I have been your children. With that said, you need help moving on. The problem with that is that is you'll always have a positive view of your OW because you're ending on a high note. Outside of taking time and being patient with yourself in her absense, you just need to feel what you're feeling. Have you spoken to your counselor about her? Can you? They may have some great insight for you in dealing with these emotions. 

You were pretty quick to throw the mental illness into the mix, so long as it provided a defense for your behaviour. Do not for one second think I'm ignorant or life has been just ducky. I'm not here to berate others. I will be honest and call a spade a spade BECAUSE life hasnt been perfect and because I've lived through hell. I hate what you're doing because not only did my mother do the exact same, but I am the adult version of the children you're raising. You can listen or you can hate me for it. We can talk about me and my life IF it helps you. Maybe it would? I'm an open book, so if it does help, I am willing to share more. 

You assume I havent lived through mental illness, (and addiction to boot,) based on my response to you. My stance is children shouldnt live through that and I believe that because I was your children, and then I became just like my mother/you. I will not stand idly by and watch it or subject children to it. Nowhere in anything I have said here stated I am better because _________. I'm not. I am not better than you whatsoever. I am far from perfect. If anything, I would beg you not to try to manage what is beyond your scope. 

It is unfair to kids to live with a messed up parent and one who rug sweeps issues and always tries to make it seem like nothing is wrong. My mom sheltered me as best she could, too. I gather you are doing your best with what you have. Thank you for taking the time to explain.  I chose a partner JUST like my father because I grew up with a mother like you. I grew up believing crazy was normal. I guarentee you dont want that/this for your kids. 

I chose it for myself in a partner because crazy and unstable was all I knew and saw in my FOO home. Do you want this for your son/daughter? Probably not.  It didn't stop at childhood. So dont think you can shelter them until they're old enough to move out and they will magically transform into happy and healthy individuals who navigate life properly. 

I loved both of my parents but wish they separated so we could all live more happily and without turmoil. Of course they wanted to shelter their kids from it, but it didnt work well. Dad was mentally ill and turned to addiction, and mom did her best while also engaging in unhealthy attachments outside her marriage, refusing to leave my father, but also not remaining faithful because she hated my father and wanted some glimmer of hope or happiness in her life.  She stayed because "she could protect us" that way. She did not.   

I refuse to raise children the way I myself was raised because one parent wouldnt leave a mentally unstable alcoholic and didnt deem my mental health important enough. He would have had zero access to me with his behaviour so her fears were not warranted. My parents were able to hide nothing. Kids arent stupid and I knew exactly what was up by the time I was 4. I knew dad wasnt ok or normal. I knew my mom was unhappy, very angry and sad inside. She had every reason to be, much like you. She was always on guard and never relaxed, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. She also chose to remain stuck. I come from a place of understanding more than you know. I knew staying at Nana and Papas in the middle of the week randomly was weird. I assume your kids arent stupid either. You dont strike me as a stupid man. 

So, I very much get it. I very much understand it from your childs point of view AND yours.  Living with my father affected me even beyond growing up though. I didnt just become healthy at 16 because dad got sober. The damage was done. I worry you feel you're covering your tracks and your kids dont know how messy this is. They might just.  Once I was old enough (16) to run off with the first man who treated me just a little bit better than my father did, I did so. I stayed in a not to great relationship with an addict and suffered years of nonsense and abuse due to his addiction (he was not that person sober much like your wife is probably really amazing when she is on meds and not suicidal, but was not a good person while drinking/drugging and not managing his depression, anxiety and bipolar.) Just like my father, he suffered from mental illness (we did manage to grow in our final years, got him medicated, and he was sober. Many trips to hospital during episodes of threatening suicide and even attempting suicide. Trips to the psych ward where he would stay for one day up to weeks at a time...  Treatment for addiction beyond treatment for mental illness where he was gone for months getting help. He went to numerous rehabs before finally something stuck. Counseling was a musy for us both.  The only thing I didnt stand by for was cheating after 12 years. After all I'd stood by for, that wasnt going to be the hill I died on. Do not for one second think I am ignorant and have not lived the utter hell you speak of, because you dont like my words. I just would never raise children the way my mother raised hers. She was terrified to leave someone who was unhealthy for her children to be around and I became my mother. Awesome, right??? When we raise children like this, we run the risk of them choosing the same or being the same. They mimic our lifestyles and behaviours. 

One thing I dont and wont support is cheating. Is your behaviour something you would continue in front of your wife? If she saw you interact with this woman, what would she think?  Or is this friendship something she doesnt know about? Would this OW be seen by your wife like a friendship you and your male friends have? If she is a friend, why can't you tell your wife how much you'll miss her? Would she understand or would this hurt her? You dont have to respond here. But ask yourself these things. Emotional affairs are very real. You came here to post about it. This isnt your typical male friendship.  Sorry, I'm not buying that.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I do appreciate it, and understand where you're coming from. We've talked about her a great deal. My guilt, how to deal with the end of the relationship, etc. And to be honest, so far it hasn't been too bad. I left the gym in February once I knew she was leaving. I wasn't about to torture myself listening to a month of her talk about the moving process. So we said our official goodbyes almost a month ago. I'm now working living my new normal. Let's put aside the OW for a minute. I know it was wrong, and now she's gone so it's over and done with.

I'm not responding here to justify staying in unhappy marriage, but obviously I came here looking for advice, and boy...things have gone in a different direction. But I think that you're assuming my situation is the same as your's. How often was your dad sick, hospitalized, etc.? Was this pretty much continuous throughout your childhood? My wife had breakdowns in 2013, 2015, and 2018. All 3 breakdowns were sparked by issues related to her job, which were made worse by feelings of "unworthiness" (nothing was ever good enough for her mom). The breakdown in 2013 was for all of us, the worst. I'd never experience someone suffering a psychotic breakdown...the delusions, hallucinations, and overall bat-s*** craziness. And because I didn't understand, I didn't properly remove my children from the situation. When she broke down in 2015 and 2018, I was much more aware/educated, and was able to immediately recognize the warning signs and get my boys out of the house.

BUT...she has been completely fine for almost 3 years. She sticks to her meds, goes to therapy, has started working out again, and holds down a good job. So for all intents and purposes, life at home is stable. There is no craziness, we don't argue, and my boys appear happy and engaged in life. So to divorce her solely because she has bipolar disorder would seem a bit unfair. And because she isn't a threat to my kids, how would I explain that to them.

If we're being honest, if I were to divorce her, it would be because she's unable to fulfill my needs. I'm not talking about being needy...everyone has needs in a relationship, and she's unable to meet them. I don't want to go into details at risk of sounding like I'm complaining. That said, divorce somewhere in the future is a likelihood. I've even begun secretly saving money so I'm not financially destroyed. Finances are a BIG reason I haven't filed.

Again, thank you for your candid reply.

 

[Daisydooks]

2 hours ago, oldschoolromantic said:

Thank you for sharing your experience. I do appreciate it, and understand where you're coming from. We've talked about her a great deal. My guilt, how to deal with the end of the relationship, etc. And to be honest, so far it hasn't been too bad. I left the gym in February once I knew she was leaving. I wasn't about to torture myself listening to a month of her talk about the moving process. So we said our official goodbyes almost a month ago. I'm now working living my new normal. Let's put aside the OW for a minute. I know it was wrong, and now she's gone so it's over and done with.

I'm not responding here to justify staying in unhappy marriage, but obviously I came here looking for advice, and boy...things have gone in a different direction. But I think that you're assuming my situation is the same as your's. How often was your dad sick, hospitalized, etc.? Was this pretty much continuous throughout your childhood? My wife had breakdowns in 2013, 2015, and 2018. All 3 breakdowns were sparked by issues related to her job, which were made worse by feelings of "unworthiness" (nothing was ever good enough for her mom). The breakdown in 2013 was for all of us, the worst. I'd never experience someone suffering a psychotic breakdown...the delusions, hallucinations, and overall bat-s*** craziness. And because I didn't understand, I didn't properly remove my children from the situation. When she broke down in 2015 and 2018, I was much more aware/educated, and was able to immediately recognize the warning signs and get my boys out of the house.

BUT...she has been completely fine for almost 3 years. She sticks to her meds, goes to therapy, has started working out again, and holds down a good job. So for all intents and purposes, life at home is stable. There is no craziness, we don't argue, and my boys appear happy and engaged in life. So to divorce her solely because she has bipolar disorder would seem a bit unfair. And because she isn't a threat to my kids, how would I explain that to them.

If we're being honest, if I were to divorce her, it would be because she's unable to fulfill my needs. I'm not talking about being needy...everyone has needs in a relationship, and she's unable to meet them. I don't want to go into details at risk of sounding like I'm complaining. That said, divorce somewhere in the future is a likelihood. I've even begun secretly saving money so I'm not financially destroyed. Finances are a BIG reason I haven't filed.

Again, thank you for your candid reply.

 

From a young age, I knew something was very wrong with my dad as I saw other peoples dads and they were not like mine. They didnt have manic episodes where they wanted to hurt themselves or die. They didnt have days/weeks they couldnt get out of bed. 

He had really bad years from the time I was 10 to 16 (1994-2000.) My mother did manage to shield me as best she could from a young age until I was about 9 or 10 but my dad got more heavy into the booze, and stopped taking care of himself all around and would stop his meds (because he felt normal which is a common issue with people who need meds. "I was feeling great so I didnt need the meds." You feel great because you're taking them! Lol. The logic just isnt there with mental illness sometimes so of course we always worried he would fall off the wagon and the other shoe would drop. 

So, 6 really bad years. He was also one of my very best friends when he died about 2 years ago because he did the work and he was sober for 18 years of my life. It didnt all end badly. I didnt hate him when he died. I did hate him for all of my younger years and into my teens. I didnt understand why he was resistant to help and change. I understand it now more as an adult, but as a child, I just wanted a normal dad and his behavior was a direct reflection of his love for his family  

I remember him being in a few centers for treatment and it was the most amazing, calm time in my life. Maybe 4 times he was away for any length of time, and a number of hospital visits over the years I was rarely aware of. My mom has been an open book in my later years as it became age appropriate and as I have asked questions. My dad attempted to be as open as he could while not remembering all the details of his behaviour  

It felt so nice when he was gone because he added stress. I suppose if we relate your story to mine, I would have been confused had my mother divorced my dad 3 years after getting sober and really taking his meds properly. I dont to this day understand why she decided to in the moment however and it screwed me up for many years. I know his getting healthy and sober played a huge role in my growth into adulthood as I was finally being shown what normal was. My dad and I could have still had the relationship we did when he died without them being married and I would have been in a much better place earlier on had I not lived through it. 

Is this a deal breaker for you if she comes off meds and has another episode? Are you waiting for the other shoe to drop? 

I don't know that divorce is always the solution. I do feel I'd have chosen differently for myself had I been shown healthy sooner. I chose crazy in a man because my dad was not good to me or for me. I know now to choose differently and as my parents became more healthy together and I really saw them putting in the work (healing was a family thing, not a dad thing.)  

 My mother would send me off when she recognized the signs. I noticed. I just didnt always know why she took me to my grandparents on Wednesday. She had to rely a lot on my amazing babysitter as well. Life wasnt all bad. I had a lot of good surrounding me. My dad just happened to be a really bad influence. I had sex young (never been promiscuous by any stretch but was 14 when I started having sex.)  I was drinking and smoking weed. I was staying out all hours. I was lying in my mother. I made stupid choices. I made choices I shouldnt have been able to make with 2 healthy parents around. But I didnt have that. Mom was constantly putting out fires and sheltering us from the next battle to come (no one ever knew when this would happen and the uncertainty was awful.) She was terrified to say no to us in fear of us flipping out and leaving. It was just unhealthy all around. My mom needed just as much help getting healthy as my dad did. I am fortunate both did the work. Dad passed away May 2018. I was there with him every single day until he died. My parents both mean and meant the world to me. I just wish they didnt stagger and suffer through life married and miserable being married for 25 of their 35 years together. 

 

[S2B]

Has your wife ever taken drugs - prescription drugs (xanax even?) and suddenly stopped taking them?

i do know a few people who had psychotic breakdowns when they suddenly stopped taking meds that had required their brain.

It sent them into a full mental breakdown.

just wondering what she takes? If she ever quits without telling anyone?

[simpycurious]

4 hours ago, Daisydooks said:

From a young age, I knew something was very wrong with my dad as I saw other peoples dads and they were not like mine. They didnt have manic episodes where they wanted to hurt themselves or die. They didnt have days/weeks they couldnt get out of bed. 

He had really bad years from the time I was 10 to 16 (1994-2000.) My mother did manage to shield me as best she could from a young age until I was about 9 or 10 but my dad got more heavy into the booze, and stopped taking care of himself all around and would stop his meds (because he felt normal which is a common issue with people who need meds. "I was feeling great so I didnt need the meds." You feel great because you're taking them! Lol. The logic just isnt there with mental illness sometimes so of course we always worried he would fall off the wagon and the other shoe would drop. 

So, 6 really bad years. He was also one of my very best friends when he died about 2 years ago because he did the work and he was sober for 18 years of my life. It didnt all end badly. I didnt hate him when he died. I did hate him for all of my younger years and into my teens. I didnt understand why he was resistant to help and change. I understand it now more as an adult, but as a child, I just wanted a normal dad and his behavior was a direct reflection of his love for his family  

I remember him being in a few centers for treatment and it was the most amazing, calm time in my life. Maybe 4 times he was away for any length of time, and a number of hospital visits over the years I was rarely aware of. My mom has been an open book in my later years as it became age appropriate and as I have asked questions. My dad attempted to be as open as he could while not remembering all the details of his behaviour  

It felt so nice when he was gone because he added stress. I suppose if we relate your story to mine, I would have been confused had my mother divorced my dad 3 years after getting sober and really taking his meds properly. I dont to this day understand why she decided to in the moment however and it screwed me up for many years. I know his getting healthy and sober played a huge role in my growth into adulthood as I was finally being shown what normal was. My dad and I could have still had the relationship we did when he died without them being married and I would have been in a much better place earlier on had I not lived through it. 

Is this a deal breaker for you if she comes off meds and has another episode? Are you waiting for the other shoe to drop? 

I don't know that divorce is always the solution. I do feel I'd have chosen differently for myself had I been shown healthy sooner. I chose crazy in a man because my dad was not good to me or for me. I know now to choose differently and as my parents became more healthy together and I really saw them putting in the work (healing was a family thing, not a dad thing.)  

 My mother would send me off when she recognized the signs. I noticed. I just didnt always know why she took me to my grandparents on Wednesday. She had to rely a lot on my amazing babysitter as well. Life wasnt all bad. I had a lot of good surrounding me. My dad just happened to be a really bad influence. I had sex young (never been promiscuous by any stretch but was 14 when I started having sex.)  I was drinking and smoking weed. I was staying out all hours. I was lying in my mother. I made stupid choices. I made choices I shouldnt have been able to make with 2 healthy parents around. But I didnt have that. Mom was constantly putting out fires and sheltering us from the next battle to come (no one ever knew when this would happen and the uncertainty was awful.) She was terrified to say no to us in fear of us flipping out and leaving. It was just unhealthy all around. My mom needed just as much help getting healthy as my dad did. I am fortunate both did the work. Dad passed away May 2018. I was there with him every single day until he died. My parents both mean and meant the world to me. I just wish they didnt stagger and suffer through life married and miserable being married for 25 of their 35 years together. 

 

Daisy

Your post really got to me.  I was raised in the complete opposite situation where love and kindness were always on display.  First, I am so sorry that you had to go through

what you did but I think that those times have made you the remarkable lady that you seem to be. I honestly hope that you find all the happiness the world has to offer

you deserve it.

[oldschoolromantic]

4 hours ago, Daisydooks said:

From a young age, I knew something was very wrong with my dad as I saw other peoples dads and they were not like mine. They didnt have manic episodes where they wanted to hurt themselves or die. They didnt have days/weeks they couldnt get out of bed. 

He had really bad years from the time I was 10 to 16 (1994-2000.) My mother did manage to shield me as best she could from a young age until I was about 9 or 10 but my dad got more heavy into the booze, and stopped taking care of himself all around and would stop his meds (because he felt normal which is a common issue with people who need meds. "I was feeling great so I didnt need the meds." You feel great because you're taking them! Lol. The logic just isnt there with mental illness sometimes so of course we always worried he would fall off the wagon and the other shoe would drop. 

So, 6 really bad years. He was also one of my very best friends when he died about 2 years ago because he did the work and he was sober for 18 years of my life. It didnt all end badly. I didnt hate him when he died. I did hate him for all of my younger years and into my teens. I didnt understand why he was resistant to help and change. I understand it now more as an adult, but as a child, I just wanted a normal dad and his behavior was a direct reflection of his love for his family  

I remember him being in a few centers for treatment and it was the most amazing, calm time in my life. Maybe 4 times he was away for any length of time, and a number of hospital visits over the years I was rarely aware of. My mom has been an open book in my later years as it became age appropriate and as I have asked questions. My dad attempted to be as open as he could while not remembering all the details of his behaviour  

It felt so nice when he was gone because he added stress. I suppose if we relate your story to mine, I would have been confused had my mother divorced my dad 3 years after getting sober and really taking his meds properly. I dont to this day understand why she decided to in the moment however and it screwed me up for many years. I know his getting healthy and sober played a huge role in my growth into adulthood as I was finally being shown what normal was. My dad and I could have still had the relationship we did when he died without them being married and I would have been in a much better place earlier on had I not lived through it. 

Is this a deal breaker for you if she comes off meds and has another episode? Are you waiting for the other shoe to drop? 

I don't know that divorce is always the solution. I do feel I'd have chosen differently for myself had I been shown healthy sooner. I chose crazy in a man because my dad was not good to me or for me. I know now to choose differently and as my parents became more healthy together and I really saw them putting in the work (healing was a family thing, not a dad thing.)  

 My mother would send me off when she recognized the signs. I noticed. I just didnt always know why she took me to my grandparents on Wednesday. She had to rely a lot on my amazing babysitter as well. Life wasnt all bad. I had a lot of good surrounding me. My dad just happened to be a really bad influence. I had sex young (never been promiscuous by any stretch but was 14 when I started having sex.)  I was drinking and smoking weed. I was staying out all hours. I was lying in my mother. I made stupid choices. I made choices I shouldnt have been able to make with 2 healthy parents around. But I didnt have that. Mom was constantly putting out fires and sheltering us from the next battle to come (no one ever knew when this would happen and the uncertainty was awful.) She was terrified to say no to us in fear of us flipping out and leaving. It was just unhealthy all around. My mom needed just as much help getting healthy as my dad did. I am fortunate both did the work. Dad passed away May 2018. I was there with him every single day until he died. My parents both mean and meant the world to me. I just wish they didnt stagger and suffer through life married and miserable being married for 25 of their 35 years together. 

 

It sounds like the situation in your home was far more severe. My wife was actually take off her meds by her psychiatrist about a year after the first breakdown. I seem to recall my therapist telling me that this is common because sometimes after a first episode, they're still trying to figure out if it's a chemical or situational problem (such as work). In my wife's case, it's both. Shortly after being taken off meds, a work issue drove pushed her into a deep depression. The first episode had been manic. But this one was depressive. She had gotten home from a business trip and wouldn't talk to me for hours. She later told me this was partly from the depression, but also because she was afraid the house was bugged. There's been a recurring delusion that has threaded all three episode: this notion that she's part of an elaborate test and that the house is being surveilled using taps throughout the house. Anyway, this second episode escalated in the suicide attempt. She had initially tried to hang herself with one of my belts, but she ended up falling a breaking her nose. When that didn't work she cut her wrists using the glass from a picture frame.

After this second breakdown, she got a new psychiatrist and committed to taking her meds and has been faithful to going to therapy. But then she lost her job. she was out of work for a year and then landed what we thought was a great position with a great firm. The stress of starting the new job combined with her insecurities and poor self esteem was too much. In the span of just a day she went from excited about the new job to depressed and delusional. It was really disappointing since she'd been doing everything she was supposed to be doing.

So yes, there is always this underlying worry that it will happen again. And it could. Every time she has a bad day at work, I worry that she won't sleep and that things will go south fast. And yes, if she went off meds, it'd be a deal breaker. That would be it. But she's been really responsible. My other big worry is that since she is healthy and being proactive about her self-care, that a judge would grant her custody of our two boys. That's a big fear, and aside from the financial side of divorce, a big reason I haven't decided to call it quits.

I'm glad you shared your story with me, and I'm glad that you were, at the very least, able to spend 18 good years with your dad!

[oldschoolromantic]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

Has your wife ever taken drugs - prescription drugs (xanax even?) and suddenly stopped taking them?

i do know a few people who had psychotic breakdowns when they suddenly stopped taking meds that had required their brain.

It sent them into a full mental breakdown.

just wondering what she takes? If she ever quits without telling anyone?

She's on an anti-psychotic and anti-depressant since the first breakdown. Her doctor gradually took her off the meds after the first breakdown, possibly to determine if her issues were chemical or situational. Not long after, she relapsed and attempted suicide. Since then she's been faithfully taking her meds and attending therapy. Unfortunately, even on meds, she had a third breakdown from the stress of starting a new job a few years back. She's been in good shape though the past 2 1/2 years.

[S2B]

Can you explain what is so stressful about her job?

has she considered other work?

does she ever drink alcohol? I hope not with those meds.

Edited March 3, 2020 by S2B

[Dimjo9]

On 2/27/2020 at 9:52 AM, oldschoolromantic said:

I know many of you go back and read old posts to gain perspective, so here's the gist of it:

I fell for my platonic friend. We're also both married to other people. Because we see each other daily, our friendship grew slowly, but steadily. She's been somewhat of a constant in my life for the last 3 years. We never had a physical affair, but she did fulfill some needs that my wife doesn't, mainly friendship and conversation. I know that this will sound mean, but talking to my wife is like talking to a wall. She had a mental break down a few years back and hasn't been the same. It's not her fault, but at the same time, it's hard for me. 

A few months ago the OW told me her husband had gotten a job on the west coast and that they'd be moving. I was understandably upset, but did my best to enjoy the rest of our time together. Although she isn't moving until tomorrow, because of all the things she needs to take care of in order to move, we said our goodbyes a few weeks ago. I thought I was handling it well, but this week has been ROUGH! knowing that she leaves tomorrow and I will most likely never see her again feels terrible!! While my feelings for her may have surpassed the bounds of friendship, it was a friendship nonetheless. I had come to terms with the inevitable platonic nature of our friendship long ago, but cherished and found value in it nonetheless.

How do I move on? I looked forward to seeing her every day, and in the course of just a few months, that was taken from me. We still interact on social media and DM, and I don't think eliminating SM will help or make a difference. Seeing her posts doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the empty space in my life that she used to fill.

Hi. “Thou shall not covet OM wife”.. if the lady had issues with her H let them figure it out. This goes for you too.. 

Real man face their fears & not sought comfort elsewhere.. u should be helping your W “for better or for worse” this is our marital vow..

For the OW u should initiate NC & tell her both of you should concentrate on fixing the marriage..

 

[pepperbird]

On 2/29/2020 at 2:36 PM, oldschoolromantic said:

I'm always hesitant to bring up the mental illness in this forum, because unless you've experienced it first-hand, you don't understand it. And you clearly don't understand it. First of all, my wife attempted suicide on ONE occasion, although she tried multiple methods unsuccessfully before giving up. Your notion that I've buried my head in the sand is completely off-track. THE MINUTE I spot a warning sign that my wife may go off the rails, I send my children to their grandparents or somewhere safe. I have been the one to check her into the hospital on 3 occasions, and convince her that meds are crucial to her wellness, etc. The last time she got sick, I had a room reserved for her at the Chicago Behavioral Hospital hours before she was admitted. SHE HAS GOTTEN THE TREATMENT SHE HAS NEEDED.

The reason that mental illness is so stigmatized, is because the general population doesn't understand it. Think of it like any other illness. If you're treated properly, take the prescribed medication, and attend regular therapy, you can live a NORMAL life. But relapse is always a possibility. For the past 3 years, my wife has been perfectly healthy. No different from you or me. Just like everyone gets the flu, then we recover, there is always the chance that we will get sick again. So...could my wife have another breakdown? Yes. Is this a reason in and of itself to get a divorce or to remove her children from her life? Absolutely not. 

As for divorce...the main reason I haven't filed for divorce is because since she is healthy right now, taking her medications and going therapy, a judge would most likely grant her full custody of our children (maybe joint if I'm lucky). The problem is, there is the underlying fear of "what if we divorce and at some point down the road she has a breakdown. Will she get the help she needs. What effect will it have on my kids...and I can't be there to protect them. As you said, I am "the protector of the home." And I've done a damn fine job of it. My wife is alive today because of me, and my kids have been shielded from the worst of her illness...because of me and no one else.

As for me being a cheater and having an affair...you're grossly misrepresenting my friendship. This woman is someone I saw a few days a week at the gym, connected with, and that's it. We have never met outside the walls of the gym. We don't talk or text on the phone. We workout for a couple hours, talk, and THAT'S IT. I do the same with several guys at the gym that I've befriended as well. Am I having affairs with them too? The fact that I've connected with a woman other than my wife on more than a superficial level doesn't, in any way, make me cheater. Did I become a bit too attached. Yes. But it happened before I even knew it was happening. The whole point of my original post was to express my sadness about her removal from my life. That's all.

I wasn't going to respond to your reply, but it occurred to me that so many of you are REALLY QUICK to judge before actually digging into the core someone's post and addressing the heart of the issue. You said "you're worried about writing stupid posts about missing your AP who moves tomorrow." I'm not worried. My post is no more stupid than your's or anyone else's...and my feelings about missing my friend are just as valid as any other's. You have 357 posts. I have 15 over the course of 3 years! Is it possible that you and the like post so much because your live's are just as screwed up as mine and coming on here and berating others helps you feel like your life isn't nearly as bad as the rest of us?

I wanted help moving on...not saving my marriage. Maybe that will be another stupid post.

With one out of every five people ( at least in most developing countries) there's a very good chance that many of the people responding to you DO have experience with a spouse having mental illness.
It could just be that they aren't saying what you want to hear. .