Support for NC after 9 yrs

[Poppy's sister]

I have read and lurked on and off for years and know my situation is not special, my affair was not a unique love etc etc. But i have finally ended things, for good i think, and while i know it is for the best, i am feeling so sad .

I wont post a long history, suffice to say i met AP ( we are both married with children) nearly 9 yrs ago. We met on a site for this purpose.

I have been married since i was 20 and my husband is asexual and we had not had intimacy for 6 yrs when i met AP. I was only just 40.

AP and i both agreed we were looking for a fun relationship, something was obviously missing and we naively thought we could have this and keep everything compartmentalised. Off course we fell head over heels in love, well it felt like love, and it became all encompassing and we had retentively started talking about a future together. However we both wanted our children to have a stable home, and we lived 150 miles apart so there was no way either of us could up and leave. We were in the affair fog and talked about 'having forever together and there was no rush.

At the 18 month mark we got seen and someone told his wife and it was nuclear. He told me he saw it as his chance to have a life with me, but i told him that the damage to his daughters would be too high a cost and he'd resent me for ever. So effectively i sent him home. It was agony and we never stayed away from each other. However from then on it was much more restricted. This was hard for me, as i had recently taken a job in his city ( biggest city in UK) which meant i was there 2-3 days aweek . We had worked this out together so we could be together more easily.

So we struggled on , good times and bad times, and i was endlessly supportive, and understanding ....and he said he still loved me and we both occasionally mentioned forever , we still used our pet names and we seemed committed to something vague in the future. But with hindsight i can see that over the years it was me giving more. Its hard to explain what i mean, but we sort of became like a comfortable old couple, well he did, i missed the passionate nature of our earlier relationship. There was years of confusing behaviour, he seemed to care greatly, always asking if i was home safe, supporting me in things i was doing, like running my first marathon, there was always very thoughtful gifts, etc etc but then he also stopped texting at weekend , he would be cold for days cus he was busy, it was just all push pull..

Then this time last year, after maybe 6-8 months of a definite withdrawing of him wanting to spend time alone for me, or be intimate, we had a rare evening toegther and he had erectile dysfunction. It did not bother me much, he has a very highly stressful job in the finance sector ( think working 14 hrs a day, flying all round the world etc) and is in late 40's and i am a medic and know this is common place . I was not upset and reassured him and we had dinner together and he admitted it had been happening a lot ( i did not ask if he meant with wife or alone).

Shortly after that he sent me an email telling me how confused and unhappy he was, how he had so much pressure , with work, and at home, he was trying to support a family member who had been subject to abuse by his nephew and his wife was unhappy about him doing this etc etc....he said he was sorry he was distracted and not able to give me as much time, or attention but he wanted me in his life he just didnt know what the future was or how it would look for us.

I also had some issues and told him these, and we both agreed that we wanted our relationship, it was worth hanging on to , working for, we both wanted a better future together and no there was nothing for either of us that would make us run for the hills...

And then that was it....he has not been intimate with me in anyway since, shortly afterwards my teenage daughter got seriously ill, and AP was fantastic at the beginning, telling me i could ring whenever i needed him, we had agreed nothing would make us run for the hills, etc...but he then has effetively withdrawn and the push pull has been worse than ever, sometimes he would not text for a few days and then he would be amazingly caring and loving with messages. He would say we must see each other, but he never had time for dinner, it was always breakfast or lunch. Things were confusing but i was focused on my d, and thought it was just a difficult time, and he was still anxious about his 'performance' , he admitted he was avoiding intimacy with me because he felt he would let me down. I did say it was not about needing sex it was just i needed a hug, i needed to be able to sit with him cuddling me while i cried ..(my d's illness was pretty awful)

Things came to a head in sept last yr, we had the most amazing lovely dinner , romantic location, we laughed and talked and ate and it was just one of those really perfect evenings, and when we came to leave, he stood in the lift with his arms crossed and started at the floor. No kiss, no hug, nothing. I was so hurt, so i rang him on the way home and it all came out..he was unhappy, he was seeing a councellor ( huge deal for him , he is an alpha male and does not talk or admit emotions) , he said it was not me, he was very clear about that, that i made him happy, the time with me was a 'burst of happiness' but that made the rest of his life unhappy . he said he was looking for 'the spark that would make me happy'...

Honestly i didnt get it, and we had several more conversation following , and upshot he doesnt know what he wants, he is confused, and unhappy, but he did not want to break up with me. I was adamant i could not be collateral damage while he figured himself out, and that i felt he was using me to prop up his life etc , as you can all probably relate too.

So we come to now, we have continued to txt most days, but gradually there have been odd days when he didnt txt , stating he was too busy at work ( true he has been doing some crazy hours but no one is that busy) we have continued to see each other and he has said several times we must talk, i want you to understand where i am and what progress i have made. He said only last week that he still wanted our relationship and we must keep talking .

SO we had dinner together yesterday....he had said it would be lovely, he found a nice restaurant, and just last week he had sent me a note thanking me for his birthday presents, saying ' i am so lucky to have you and i am looking forward to more adventures together, it will get better darling'. 

He wouldn't talk while we ate, saying smiling at me ' come on darling , lets talk at the end, dont worry it is nothing bad or nasty, but lets just enjoy dinner first, you need this ' ( my d is still very ill with an eating disorder so food and relaxed eating is not common for me !) 

so we get to pudding and we talk..well he talks....he talked about how he and wife are definitely at the end of the road, he admitted he moved out for a while but has gone back and they are going to counselling ( third time since we were seen 7 yrs ago) and he hates it, but is using it to end things amicable rather than toxically. He says they are both coming to the realisation it is over. But he has spent last yr improving his relationship with his girls, and parents, there was a lot of talk about him and what he needed/had had to do....i pointed out how he had said he'd support me and then had done a runner, how i felt abandoned, confused and how i couldnt understand why this had happened. I didn't understand why if the time we had together made him happy he seemed to pulling away from it. 

His reply to why had he not told me what was going on, why didnt he tell me he was unhappy, why let me feel it was something i was doing wrong ...was 'i didn't want to layer things on you while "daughter" was so ill'

The conversation was awful, i got upset, he got angry , he kept saying i wasnt hearing what he was saying and i agreed and said he wasn't hearing me either...but it ended with me saying i was sure about us and he said he had changed in the last few months and he didn't know what he wanted anymore. He might end up alone and lonely, divorced and sat in his office....i pointed out that wouldn't happen, he is good looking, wealthy, charming and i suggested maybe he realised that once single he could have choice , he may not want to be committed to me..that was when he got angry / upset, he said i was implying he had someone else and he didnt and he wouldn't be looking.

BUT the bottom line, is he admitted i was effectively going to be sat on the subs bench and he did not know what he wanted, and at the moment he did not want an intimate relationship with anyone, and 'it was him not me'. I said i wasn't prepared to be his friend only with this confusing limbo, it hurts too much to see him and not be hugged or desired etc.

he kept saying he was sorry ..but i walked away.

Why am i in bits, i knew this was likely going to happen, i knew i needed to stop this, i knew he was not giving anything or at least very little to me.

I know i wont get the answers but i want to know why he kept up the all the nice stuff, being caring and saying he did not want a break from when i offered over and over again. 

A big part of me wants to go back and say i'll wait, as i think he is just having a s***ty time, the ending of any marriage is awful and this has been a long time of misery coming to a head and he is not good at handling conflict or emotions,  but i also know i cannot or should not put myself through this. Maybe walking away and leaving him to sort things out on his own is better. He always told me he would fight for something he really wanted, and would not give up. I have pointed out he is not fighting for me/us and his answer is ' i am you just cannot see it, and when i have sorted what makes me happy i will fight for that' I pointed out he might have lost me by then,  if it was me. he said he would find me and fight no matter what.

So here we are, day 2 of NC....i know he is stubborn and proud, and desperately unhappy. But honestly, i never asked him to leave his wife for me, we never future faked,  but its not unreasonable to want to know that if he is separating/divorcing then when the dust settles he wants to see me.

I know his fear is that i hear 'divorce' and presume that means him and me immediately together and living happily ever after...and i have told him ( well once yrs ago) that is not the case. But i did use to daydream occasionally about us living in a house by the sea, and used to joke about the names our dogs would have...he now says this was a pressure..he feels the dream was my ALL OR NOTHING.

It isnt, and frankly his behaviour over the last few yrs has made that dream fade and now i don't actually know what i want either, but i do know i want to see him, have an intimate relationship, a connection..it might be separate lives, it might be sharing something ..who knows. But his final statement at dinner was ' i dont know what i want anymore, and i cannot give you what you want right now, i cannot give you an intimate relationship, that connection and i am sorry darling'.

I am sorry this is much longer than i meant it to be.

I know you guys wont be able to read his mind for me or give answers to the whys ? I am posting to stop me reaching out to him..i know he wont give me closure..i have read enough on here to know that begging for answers gets you no where.

Last week i felt so strong about setting boundaries and stating what i needed, but i now feel the conversation went all wrong, i didnt say things i wanted to or in the way i meant, and i think neither of us can hear the other....so just sad today

 

[Difficultstuff]

Hi Poppy's sister,

No answers, just a few impressions: there's a lot of ambiguity here in how you describe the current status of the affair and how you feel. You say it's over for good 'you think'(!) at the start, then at the end you say you feel the conversation went all wrong. You say in the middle you don't know what you want, except you *do* want an 'intimate relationship' not 'friends' or 'limbo'. So it clearly isn't resolved at all, at least for you.

If his marriage is ending then yes, that's for him to handle - but if you've known him so long it's going to feel strange to stay away.

I suppose what your situation needed was clarity. A plan and timeframe for the next few months. A decision whether to make it work as two single people or not, whether to spend time apart or not. (I think you're still married, maybe he felt or feels 'pressure' because you've not been clear with him about if and when you'll divorce.)

It's been major push-pull recently it seems. But it doesn't sound like you've entirely burned bridges either. So maybe it's time to end the ambiguity, either by speaking to him or staying NC and moving on until he reaches out (he may not but it feels to me like it's more possible than in some cases - but obviously don't hope for it.)

[Poppy's sister]

thank you for the reply

your right..i do sound ambiguous, i guess i hoped when we spoke that he would say he did still want me but just could i just wait for him to sort his head and marriage out.

\he didn't and i knew deep down he wouldn't...its not the type of thing he would say, he has been clear that he wants to do what will hurt me the least and me saying i couldnt see him as just friends as that was too painful sort of sealed the deal for him.

I guess he would have liked me to be understanding and compromising and agree to just wait and continue with this wierd friends but more than but maybe not type relationship .

I have thought about it today and talked to my brother who did end his marriage to be with his AP, and he said that even then he struggled with feeling a responsibilty to his AP , while dealing with guilt, anger, doubts, the basic s**t of an acrimonious divorce, and he had no children involved. 

My brother also suggested that if i cannot see my AP as just a friend while this is going on, then the best thing is to give him space, and while AP did not ask for space, and when offered before he was adamant it wasnt what he wanted, maybe i needed to take the initiative and do it anyway.

two outcomes..he does sort things out, and comes to conclusion when dust has settled he wants me and then he will no doubt contact me and i may or may not be in the same headspace, or he sorts things out and realises he doesnt want me .he has other choices.

Either way i think for both our sakes i need to stay away.

but your right it is odd after so long, and being his biggest cheer leader for so long, to know he is doing a s***ty time and i am not there for him...its also hard not knowing if he didnt tell me all this stuff that was going on because he thought i'd read more into it or because he didnt want me to feel pressured as my daughter is so ill ..or maybe both

[Difficultstuff]

6 hours ago, Poppy's sister said:

thank you for the reply

your right..i do sound ambiguous, i guess i hoped when we spoke that he would say he did still want me but just could i just wait for him to sort his head and marriage out.

its also hard not knowing if he didnt tell me all this stuff that was going on because he thought i'd read more into it or because he didnt want me to feel pressured as my daughter is so ill ..or maybe both

I've not been on the forum long but a lot of us seem to be trying to read the other person's mind, hoping they'll say what we want while also not sure what we want, and then second-guessing everything we're thinking, feeling and saying - and that all makes for a lot of stress! (I've spent three days thinking about a letter from ex-(almost)married W after six months NC in which she essentially says 'goodbye' and finding ways to interpret it as her wanting me to be in touch again...)

It's been a nine year R for you, a long time with no huge upsets, D-days etc, which is uncommon here, but it also sounds like you have felt an imbalance as time went on. So maybe that's something to hold on to during NC, the sense that you were making more effort and deserved more.

I guess I can only concur with your brother; best to wait - but wait without hoping.

Sorry about your daughter, I hope she gets well soon.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Difficultstuff

[Amethyst68]

I must admit my immediate thought is that he's already got your replacement ready or if he's really leaving this time he's looking forward to being a free agent. The second one seems to be a favoured option with MM once their marriages  actually end, whatever the reason.

I have a question for you, what about your own marriage? Does your husband's fate depend on the actions of your MM? Is he aware of your affair, or of your long term plans?

The least this man deserves is the truth, the agency and full knowledge to make his own decisions after 9 years.

[Poppy's sister]

@Difficultstuff thankyou for replying and thank you for the thoughts about my daughter. 

You are so right we all waste so much energy and headaspace trying to second guess what someone means when they do xyz or say abc...

Our difficulty is he is dreadfully conflict avoidant and emotionally avoidant so conversations when we both calmly talk seem impossible...which i should really take as a red flag, however i like emotionally uncharged relationships, and could happily be with someone who is not gushing and emotional if i knew they wanted to be with me. You only have to tell me something once. 

i would also question why after 6 months of NC your ex sent a letter...assuaging her own guilt maybe or just testing the waters..? how do you feel about it ? how have you managed to keep nc

i am feeling really sad today, and just so confused by everything. I guess i am probably an avoidant personality too as i hate this drama, this confusion, the unsaid stuff, the said stuff..

[Poppy's sister]

@Amethyst68

My husband is gay, he knew this when he married me 26 yrs ago

He wanted respectability and a family

We actually get on well, we co-parent well and have a nice life together and for so long i was content with this. Then when i hit 40 i started feeling that i wanted something else, a relationship that had passion and intimacy in it.

I didnt want to divorce and disrupt my children's life, or i guess selfishly mine either. and this was my biggest mistake, thinking i could just have an affair for fun and sex and no feelings would come into it.

Of course they did and the rest is history..i have learnt that you cannot have an affair with someone and fall in love and then not want the whole deal with them. the pain of not having holidays, birthdays, good days/bad days together becomes overwhelming.

I am struggling today and i know that right now the only thing is time but oh boy i wish i could fast forward the next 6 months..or however long it takes not to be thinking about them every second, to not wake up hourly overnight feeling grief stricken.

 

 

[Amethyst68]

So in your first post your BH was asexual to help excuse affair and now he's suddenly gay to help excuse it. Which is it? Either or both? If it is there's really been no excuse for keeping it secret because he may actually have been happy for you, except for the other man being married of course.

There is of course another innocent party been who's been messed around here for a horrific number of years. 

I'd keep going with NC but give serious consideration to divorcing your BH for his sake.

[Poppy's sister]

sorry for confusion

my husband is gay but does not wish to have a sexual relationship with anyone and does not wish to be divorced.

I guess i see that as asexual

 

[anika99]

So if you could have everything the way you want it, what would that be? Do you still want to stay married while having an affair? Why would or should your MM settle for an affair once he is divorced and single? I'm guessing your kids must be teenagers by now. When they were little the state of your marriage didn't much matter to them so long as they were happy and their needs were being met, but now that they are older they are aware and your marriage will have an impact on them now and in the future. Do you think you and your husband are modeling a healthy relationship for them? Would you want them to settle for a marriage like yours? 

[Difficultstuff]

2 hours ago, Poppy's sister said:

i would also question why after 6 months of NC your ex sent a letter...assuaging her own guilt maybe or just testing the waters..? how do you feel about it ? how have you managed to keep nc

i am feeling really sad today, and just so confused by everything. I guess i am probably an avoidant personality too as i hate this drama, this confusion, the unsaid stuff, the said stuff..

Ostensibly she sent it for a legitimate reason - to return tickets for an event we were going to in June - she 'couldn't bear' to think I'd be upset she still had them. But I'd written them off anyway, feels like an excuse. Had told her to be in touch if things had changed, but she says 'nothing has'. A lot of self-concern in what she writes so, yes, probably her making her own closure, assuaging guilt, testing the waters. I very much want to respond, but haven't. But a different situation to yours overall.

We're all 'conflict avoidant' in different degrees really, aren't we? It's just so hard to know which battles we have to fight or when to surrender. I used to think if we all just said what we really meant it'd be a lot easier, but that's not true either!

I do think, though, that the lack of direction from you regarding if and when you'd divorce can't have helped your MM: were you expecting him to continue an affair with you as a single OM? I agree with Amethyst68 on this.

[Beca L]

@Poppy's sister

Hi,

I read your message on the other thread and have read your story. I'm sorry to hear you are going through a really tough time, 9 years is such a long time to being doing the push and pull. It's only been 2 for me and I can honestly say that they have been the worst 2 years of my life. I don't see how you have much option but to do the NC with your AP/MM. It's really hard but it's the only way you are really going to know if he wants to be with you and if he will make the steps on his own to end his marriage so that he can start a new relationship with you once you leave your husband.

I've been in NC for over 10 weeks now. It's hard and I still have a few tears most days. I desperately miss MM and I still see him at work, from afar. What keeps me going is the fact that he has treated me so badly and I don't want to be apart of any kind of affair any more. I don't think he will leave his wife, not at the moment anyway. He may do in years to come but I doubt that he would leave her to be on his own. I have good days and bad but I have to just keep going, I have no choice. I ruminate so much on what has happened to me and try desperately to try and understand what happened and why he returned to his wife after the wonderful year we had together. Many on here have given their opinion, not all of which I agree with. All affairs are different in their own way. I think ultimately he was a coward, my life was too complicated and he was unable to live with me straightaway. He had left his wife and now he had not only me but me and my three kids and all the responsibilities and stresses that came with teenagers. His own adult children were not speaking to him which was very upsetting for him. He just wasn't willing to put in the work with my family or his own kids. He missed his family so he rushed back without thinking about how he would feel without me in his life. I'm sure he's not completely happy with his current situation but it works for him atm.

I don't really know what advise to give you. All this push and pull is mentally draining and exhausting. Take a break, stay in NC and see what happens. At least you are not constantly waiting for a message or when you can see them. Just concentrate on your family, your daughter and yourself. Let MM sort out his marriage and life without you being his emotional crutch!!!

 

[Poppy's sister]

thank you @Beka L 

Your right, and i know i need to leave him to sort his life out

I had always planned to leave my marriage when my daughter had finished school, my husband and i have co-parented well and happily together but for both of us i wasn't going to drift on ..he deserves to be able to find a man to love but i know many on here will say i have been unfair engaging in an affair and not being honest with husband.

I know my AP was worried that his situation the last year or so at home was adding pressure to me, he was mixed over worrying i would see him as more available if he mentioned being separated, and i would immediately want more...or i couldnt give more and i would feel pressured to.

sadly i know we should have discussed this last week but somehow the conversation got all twisted and we were upset and before we knew it i was crying , he was looking destroyed and we walked out ...

I know that the NC is best because ifhe goes through with the divorce then what i have read on here , it seems the best choice for all is if the affair is not ongoing at this time. Most men seem to need to be just dealing with their marriage/family situation without the affair .

I dont know how i will feel if he re-appears in time, single, and where i will be with my daughter and my own marriage, i guess i have to stop thinking about the future i thought i had and just do day to day.

But Beka your story is indeed a warning sign...

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, Poppy's sister said:

dont know how i will feel if he re-appears in time, single, and where i will be with my daughter and my own marriage, i guess i have to stop thinking about the future i thought i had and just do day to day.

But Beka your story is indeed a warning sign...

Hi,

Hope you are ok today. It’s hard for me to give you advise as your situation is quite different to mine. I wonder does your MM really know what you want? Have you told him ? Do you actually know what you want ? If he leaves his wife will you leave your husband ? Are you in a position to do that atm? He may have backed off from you because he feels that you won’t  leave your marriage because of your daughter. I don’t think either of you have communicated what you actually want. Have you? Or am I wrong?  
Sorry if I’m not be a great help today. I’m finding it hard today. Haven’t seen Xmm at work properly for a few weeks but saw him today and it’s made me very sad. Just can’t understand how these men can stay in an unhappy marriage. Or if it’s not unhappy why the hell do they bring a 3rd person in to it, use them and then dump them. It’s so wrong. 
Anyway hope things are clearer for you today. 🙂

[Poppy's sister]

He just sat there last week saying ' i don't know what i want anymore'

But i do know him ( i know on LS the wisdom is all MM lie, and all OW are naive and simpletons and believe they know the MM but i think we do get to know someone over time) and i know he would never ever tell me if he wanted to say 'will you leave your h if i am single'.

he did say ' maybe i will end up single and lonely and sat in my office in canary wharf like my brother'.....i said 'that wont happen, your handsome, charming, financially stable and you wont be alone, there will be a whole choice for you'

he said ' i have not got anyone else, i am not interested in a relationship'

I do believe that his head is full of his current problems, death throes of a very tricky marriage, repairing his relationship with his young adult children ( he said this has been his focus this year and his eldest understands now and it is much better)

he did say this is nothing to do with 'A' being sick......but you guys on here have made me think maybe he is just scared to ask me what my plans are ....

maybe he does fear committing to me now and going through with what will be WW3 divorce and me being unavailable at the end.

Oh G i dont know....i know that we had a stupid mixed up conversation with way too much emotion last week and i'd like another chance

maybe then i could say what i want...which on reflection i actually think that an intimate full on relationship while we both have such huge external pressures and issue to sort out would be a bad idea but we need to be supportive and caring of each other until the dust settles and then see ?

He did say a few months back ' we can start from scratch again when everything is better , it will be like starting a new '

oh Beka, though i am sure you felt you were home and dry so to speak and they still go back

I agree why do they stay ? I think men are so much better at just accepting a really sh**ty home life just to not lose status, their standing, they hate being seen as the man who left their poor wife....and the children are a big pull, no matter what things are said about ' if they really wanted to they would leave' ....i will not leave because of my daughter, so why would i expect him to leave his daughters ?

even grown up children are such a big pull ..

and men on the whole dont o well alone ..yours jumped back to safety when faced with a bit of a less than ideal situation with your kids

We ( women) will love deeply and take on the hard stuff and try to make the kids ok..men just want the woman and not the other stuff

I am sorry you had such a hard day, i really do not know how you are doing it....i guess no choice..again see, we will get up and keep going cus we have children at home who need us to

Does you ex ? MM ever give you any explanation to why he did what he did ?

does he still want a relationship with you ?

I am feeling the pull....i deleted all the old emails..and oh dear it was painful to read some..so i stopped reading and just deleted...but remembering that less than a yr ago he was saying how he missed me, couldnt wait to see me, that i was gorgeous / that seeing me was highlight of his day ...and now he says he doesnt know what he wants..

[Beca L]

2 hours ago, Poppy's sister said:

I am sorry you had such a hard day, i really do not know how you are doing it....i guess no choice..again see, we will get up and keep going cus we have children at home who need us to

Does you ex ? MM ever give you any explanation to why he did what he did ?

does he still want a relationship with you ?

I am feeling the pull....i deleted all the old emails..and oh dear it was painful to read some..so i stopped reading and just deleted...but remembering that less than a yr ago he was saying how he missed me, couldnt wait to see me, that i was gorgeous / that seeing me was highlight of his day ...and now he says he doesnt know what he wants..

Hi,

I’m so sorry to hear your story. It’s so upsetting. I guess you can’t help who you fall in love with. I know that BS find it hard to see our side of the story. Yes, MM /MW lie and I genuinely believe that in the beginning they set out on the right track and some want to leave their marriage and be with the OW but lines blur and it gets so confusing for them. Yes my XMM left but he was very naive and he didn’t really consider how his boys would react to what he did to their mother. He didn’t anticipate that BS would have a break down and desperately want him back. He thought she’d be happy to see him go and want to move on as well. She never left him alone, she begged and pleaded for months. She sent text after text, phoned constantly. When she finally gave up and started pulling herself together he panicked, I think, he realised this women who was a massive part of his life would no longer be a part of it. (They met  at 17-18, married at 22 and he’s 53 now). 
He’s tried to explain why he went back but tbh I don’t think he really knows himself. It was a gut feeling and he went with it. He desperately wanted his kids to speak to him. Once back he could hardly leave again so it all snowballed. He was pressured into buying a new house. So that’s where he is now. 
I don’t really know if he wants a relationship with me. He tells me he is in love with me and that he wishes we could be together but he’s scared of the future. He’s scared to leave her and he feels a sense of duty and loyalty to her. Not saying I agree, it’s just what he tells me. I think secretly he would like her to end the marriage so he gets a get out of jail free card !!! Then his boys would still talk to him, he could still be friends with her and then after the divorce he could pursue me. But he is living in a dream world, she will never leave him. She took him back after he had been living with me for a year (I realise now she isn’t aware of that fact. He has played down mine and his relationship ) so she will never ever give him up. He tells me he is sitting back and waiting to see what happens. 

Anyway, maybe you should try and explain to your MM what you really want. Are u scared to tell him ? Are you worried he might not want the same ? I guess you, like me are unable, (at this time) to offer our xmm the type of relationship that they really want. My children are my main responsibility, as your daughter is also your no 1 atm. If my XMM left now he would have to live on his own with the possibility of alienation from all his family for at least a few years. That is something he is not prepared to risk. I’m just not worth that level of upset. I think my xmm just wants to forget me. Is your MM willing to cause his family all this pain without the guarantee that you will do the same ? It’s a big risk. What do you think ? 

[Amethyst68]

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I guess you can’t help who you fall in love with.

I hate this saying because it's simply not true. What it is, is an easy way out. What we can't help is the feeling of attraction to someone. What you can definitely help is what you do with that. There is a point where you find out the person you are attracted to is attached to someone else and you think - nope it's a no go, shame but move on and if you're the attached person you think the opposite, if only I was single then maybe but move on. 

The reason BSs don't see it from your point of view is because every single minute of your affair, your decision to cheat is not some kind of grand written in the stars fated romance but a series of concious decision making. At each point you had a choice and you chose to lie to those you are supposed to love. Even those who had affairs who ended 'successfully '.

I'm not saying couples should stay together unhappy forever but deal with the situation properly and then move on with someone new.

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

The reason BSs don't see it from your point of view is because every single minute of your affair, your decision to cheat is not some kind of grand written in the stars fated romance but a series of concious decision making. At each point you had a choice and you chose to lie to those you are supposed to love. Even those who had affairs who ended 'successfully '.

I'm not saying couples should stay together unhappy forever but deal with the situation properly and then move on with someone new.

Sorry if I sounded flippant. I agree with all that you have said and it makes sense but when you are in the situation yourself it’s so hard to see what is so blatantly obvious now. The point I’m trying to make is that I myself had never been in this situation before so you don’t know what to do if you’ve never experienced it before. I did give my xmm the cold shoulder in the beginning as I’m sure many others on here do as well. However MM/MW lie and convince you that their marriage is over and has been for a while and that they Live as separate people etc. Then before you know it you are sucked in to their lives and marriage and you end up doing something you never thought you would. 
I didn’t lie to anyone.btw. 
yes I agree, couples should deal with their marriage before they pursue a new relationship with someone else. That is what should happen. However some individuals are cowards and selfish and would rather have the back up plan in place to cushion their fall once they decide to leave. 

[Beca L]

5 hours ago, Poppy's sister said:

I agree why do they stay ? I think men are so much better at just accepting a really sh**ty home life just to not lose status, their standing, they hate being seen as the man who left their poor wife....and the children are a big pull, no matter what things are said about ' if they really wanted to they would leave' ....i will not leave because of my daughter, so why would i expect him to leave his daughters ?

even grown up children are such a big pull ..

I agree. Your priority is with your daughter atm and I can understand that why we he want to leave his family when you need to stay with yours. I feel for you, it’s an impossible situation. I hope he ends his marriage because it’s the right thing for him and not because of you. Then he will be free to start a new with you. Until then I think staying in NC is the correct thing to do. Even though it’s so painful and distressing. 

[Poppy's sister]

thank you for replies , and sorry for delay..i am in the UK so time differences at play i think.

We both always agreed if / when we dissolved our marriages it was because we did not want to be married anymore,  not for each other. We are both usually quite reserved and practical people and we were well aware of the stats of relationships starting as affairs succeeding are low.

But throughout the last 7 yrs ( the post dday part of our affair) we have occasionally discussed the future but we never future faked each other. I guess neither of us were brave enough to be completely open and honest enough to say 'actually i want us to be together as a normal couple'...but the inplication was there.

I thought we were both on the same page that was stay at home until out children had finished school. I know that post dday his home life has been a rollercoaster ( and yes i understand my part in that ) but never once has he wanted to give up on us.

Its hard to explain over the internet , and not sound like a real naive idiot, i do know him and i know that for him being seen as a good guy, being a stable family , status and finances are important. I think for many men this is the case, i think women are less bothered about what people think, when they decide they want to leave or divorce or whatever they do not care about loss of face. I find it odd, especially with my AP, divorces are common in his industry, and no one would bat a bloody eyelid...

All along we agreed our 4 daughters were are priorities,  and he has struggled with the last few years as his girls have been affected by the toxic atmosphere at home, and again i felt that two happier but divorced parents would be better , i would never say that to him as it was not my place.

anyway this last year to 18 months it seems he finally decided that being unhappy was not what he wanted. He admitted to seeing a life coach/councellor and trying to work out what it was that would make him happy. Despite my offers to back off, he was adamant that me/us was not the source of unhappiness, it was infact the thing that made him happy...we have had no intimacy for the last 12 months , and so he could not still be keeping me hanging on for sex as he had removed that from the table.

It has been the push/pull actions that i cannot fathom, and i guess none of us on here ever can.

I am trying to see it that right now with his marriage really in the start of the end he is just overwhelmed and yes seeing me for an hour a week or a few quick txt exchanges were a little blast of light relief but when faced with me accros the dinner table last week, asking for something ( neither of us really know i think what i want/he wants/what the other is thinking) he just cannot give it..he cannot give what he thinks i want..which is a promise that he is getting divorced and we will immediately be a couple.

I presumed this was because he no longer loves me/finds me attractive/ wants the future whatever that was with me....

But reading your responses, and knowing how he hides from his emotions, maybe some of this is, i cannot tell him with 100% certainty that when he is more available i will be able to be there 100% of the time. I have always felt that he didnt want that, i was always the 'cool' girlfriend...non suffocating, made no demands , he said last week ' i might end up alone sat in my office on my own like my brother'. I interpreted that as "i dont want you anymore, and i might end up on my own and that is a risk i will take".

But , and it is a big naive jump maybe, maybe he is indeed pushing me away cus 1. he has too much to handle, 2. he doesnt want to risk pinning all his hope for future happiness on me 

oh god i dont know, and right now we have not txted or spoken or emailed for 6 days..the longest time we have ever been NC after a row... I dont know what he meant or what he thinks and i dont think he will tell me, i think he will just keep saying 'i dont know what i want and i can't give you what you want'

what a bloody mess

I guess keep the NC and if he goes through with his divorce and the dust settles he may wake up one day and think i was the one ...

 

[Beca L]

3 hours ago, Poppy's sister said:

Its hard to explain over the internet , and not sound like a real naive idiot, i do know him and i know that for him being seen as a good guy, being a stable family , status and finances are important. I think for many men this is the case, i think women are less bothered about what people think, when they decide they want to leave or divorce or whatever they do not care about loss of face. I find it odd, especially with my AP, divorces are common in his industry, and no one would bat a bloody eyelid...

Hi,

I’m also in the uk. I totally understand how you are feeling and know the heartache. I hear you about ‘bloody mess’ and really there is no perfect solution. But in my opinion people shouldn’t stay together for the kids. I know many will disagree with this statement but children being around a toxic and unhealthy relationship is not good for them. I understand the worries of your MM my xmm has the same views. I know that staying married, keeping the family home, status, finances etc is important for my xmm and is one of the reasons why he still remains married. Yes, I agree that women worry less about what people will say or think. I don’t care that I’m divorced. My XH and I were not compatible so it was the right thing to do. 
I do believe that your MM is worried about the future and scared. If he leaves her will u be available for him. Can you give him what he wants. You are really not available either atm. 
I feel for you and it’s so devastating. I’m so sad about what has happened to me. I miss my XMM so much and can’t understand why he went back or if he even thinks about me. He hasn’t tried to contact me. I think his stance, which is pretty much what he has always done is the ostrich approach - head in the sand !!!!  He thinks that he will be able to forget me and the wonderful times we had. He thinks he can improve his marriage. He believes time will do that. It hasn’t worked so far, +2 years since he went back. 
Anyway keep going that’s all we can do. Wait and see, he may go ahead with his divorce. But you are correct in that you can’t be apart of that if you want you and him to succeed in the future. 

[Poppy's sister]

It's his birthday today. 

I caved in and sent an email two days ago

I tried to explain in it that I thought we had made a mess of the conversation last week and I tried to explain that I didn't think him  separating meant we would immediately be full on together. 

But I didn't say or ask whether he was pushing me away because he is scared I won't be available to him... I know he would never ever admit that. 

He hasn't replied. I know he has been struggling with how hurt I have been getting in the last year and he won't contact me.. Maybe he is relieved.. Or maybe he is a mess like me but I know he won't reach out. He will see it as this is the only way I won't get hurt.. Little does he know it hurts everyday. 

Its difficult not to only recall the nice stuff, I have to make myself remember all the days he didn't txt me when he could have, all the times he cancelled seeing me for spurious reasons, all the things he does find time for... When he can't find time for me... And the fact he just can't communicate honestly with me, and he sat there a week ago and said he'd changed and he didn't know what he wanted. 

I guess I have to believe him... 

[Beca L]

5 minutes ago, Poppy's sister said:

He hasn't replied. I know he has been struggling with how hurt I have been getting in the last year and he won't contact me.. Maybe he is relieved.. Or maybe he is a mess like me but I know he won't reach out. He will see it as this is the only way I won't get hurt.. Little does he know it hurts everyday. 

Hi,

This is really tough and similar things like this have happened to me over the last few years. I really do sympathise. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s the same for me too. I’ve gotta get ready for work but I’ll send a longer message later. Try not to think too much about him or what he is thinking. It just drives you mad  and you don’t really know. Try to have a good day. 🙂you are not alone. xo

[Amethyst68]

Not to hurt you but some newly divorced people suddenly realise they are now not restricted in who they can see. Before you were safe because you were also married but if he goes ahead with the separation and divorce he will have no ties and will be free to date whoever he wants openly,  maybe even multiple people. This could be what he is preparing for now.

[Difficultstuff]

4 hours ago, Poppy's sister said:

He hasn't replied. I know he has been struggling with how hurt I have been getting in the last year and he won't contact me.. Maybe he is relieved.. Or maybe he is a mess like me but I know he won't reach out. He will see it as this is the only way I won't get hurt.. Little does he know it hurts everyday. 

I'm going to chime in as I responded to you earlier. I'm in the UK too, by the way!

You're in very early days of NC. I'm sure you reached out because you still had things to say - that's not necessarily 'caving.' You've had a very long relationship with this man. It's entirely possible he's both a mess, but also that he's somehow relieved. But unless he's a psychopath I'm certain he knows that you are hurting badly too.

You both decided, though, that things weren't working as they were. That sounds a positive thing to me. It means that either you'll move on alone and find healthier ways of living, or that you'll come together after a period of time and be able to start again, but from a position of mutual strength, availability and commitment.

I know the NC is excruciating. But it will, if you stick to it, give you new perspectives. It has for me, whether I wanted it to or not! I can't pretend to know how hard it must be for you after that long a relationship. But as Beca L says, you are not alone in this.