Interesting Coronavirus situation. seriously!

[Wanderlust2018]

So here I am, the “at times” dispenser of advice, seeking advice...

Backstory: Met a gal back in early Nov., and we know some of the same people within our respective circles. We’ve been dating as what I would describe as on a very casual basis. This has included a few trips together, one of which was to (oddly enough) a former elementary school classmate mine, who she also knows. Our time together has been enjoyable, but I’m nowhere near falling for her and I don’t feel or sense that she’s falling for me, which is fine. 

But this is where it gets interesting... So I have a major birthday coming up, as in within about 2 1/2 weeks from now. Many weeks ago, she invited me to Italy to join her (she’s a dual U.S. and Italian citizen) during the time of my birthday. I’ll say she’s a dual citizen lightly since she barely finished going through the “hoops” to get her Italian citizenship she was born here in the U.S., and is as American as I am. In fact, I think her Italian “roots” are more at her grandparents level and what not, but ok. I honestly think it’s more of a “novelty” for her that anything. She left the U.S. for Italy about 3 weeks ago with plans to stay through around the first of April or thereabouts. It was actually her that sourced up a really great airfare for me to join her for about 9 days spanning my birthday, with plans to visit several cities together, all of which, coincidentally, are in northern Italy.

So...we’ve been in contact while she’s been there discussing plans and what not, but ever since this Coronavirus thing, it’s gotten even more interesting...

She’s a sharp woman, who comes from a pharma background. I work in medicine myself and quite closely with some of the most prestigious universities and experts in the world (MD level, including infectious disease experts) and in an environment where I’m getting more of the “real story” and ramifications in my opinion, than all the media hype. This is not to say the Coronavirus isn’t a serious thing, but in medicine circles, it’s a bit of a different and objective view. 

Which brings me to the point of my post... Thus far, since the outbreak of the virus in Italy, I’ve received nothing but dramatic msgs from her that my senses and gut tell me are her trying to discourage me from coming, and perhaps not due to the Coronavirus. In one exchange, just a few days ago, I suggested that I fly into Rome as we had originally planned (my ticket is booked) and then we switch directions and go south (think Sicily, as opposed to north) or, grab one of the cheap flights from Rome to Athens and/or to somewhere like Santorini to keep some distance between the “outbreak” and us. She’s a self admitted “planner” and free spirited person who can afford to do things like that (which I can afford too) and she didn’t bite on that idea AT ALL, the heading south. We’re both multi time travelers/visitors to Europe (separately over the years) and I know that it isn’t that difficult to get around over there, hop to a different country, as I’ve done it many times, as has she. Today, more dramatic msgs about how there’s no hand sanitizer in country, stories of people “rioting and looting” stores to obtain essentials because she’s there and is getting the “Italy version of news.” In one of her msgs today, she stated “I hope you made a back up plan” for a trip, meaning an entirely different trip for me to celebrate my birthday, without her. I find it a bit odd that if she’s so concerned about the state of affairs there, why wouldn’t she pay the change fee on her ticket, which she can very easily afford, and return to the U.S. now? I don’t know...my senses and gut are now telling me to forget her and either go on the trip solo (I’ve done solo trips abroad many times and have no issue with that)  or just cancel this trip altogether and do my own thing someplace else which is fine too. 

Sure, she could be sharing her “intel” plainly and simply out of concern, but I really do feel like there’s an ulterior motive. I’m an adult and I don’t need to be talked in or out of anything. I’m able to make my own choices and live with the ramifications, if any. 

Thoughts?

[LivingWaterPlease]

Follow your gut is my advice. It always works for me. So sorry I can't offer something more logical. 

Why not ask her if she's having second thoughts about the two of you spending this time together?  Ask her if she's decided there's something else she'd rather do with her time. 

Just be very transparent with her and ask that she'll be so with you.

 

[Wanderlust2018]

22 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Follow your gut is my advice. It always works for me. So sorry I can't offer something more logical. 

Why not ask her if she's having second thoughts about the two of you spending this time together?  Ask her if she's decided there's something else she'd rather do with her time. 

Just be very transparent with her and ask that she'll be so with you.

 

True that! Usually when I don’t follow my gut it bites me on the rear! And yes, I replied this evening, and said I really wasn’t too concerned about it all, was transparent about why I wasn’t too concerned, etc. I added something to the effect of “if you don’t want me to come or your plans have changed for me to join you, just let me know, I can travel solo and do my own thing just fine” which is true since I have relatives in other counties in Europe who were planning on meeting up with me/us. No challenge for me to switch gears and do something different. I do know she read my last msgs, since we’ve been communicating through WhatsApp while she’s there, but hasn’t replied, yet.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Wanderlust2018
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[LivingWaterPlease]

That was perfect, Wanderlust! Transparency is the best policy! Possibly something she needs to learn if things have changed. Would have been nice had she been up front with you rather than hedging!

[schlumpy]

Possibly she wants you in stand-by-mode incase her new interest doesn't pan out. That's what I read but since you described the relationship as casual what were you expecting?

I agree with you that she is attempting to use the Corona virus as a blind to whatever else she had planned. Seems like a poor choice of diversion considering your background.

[elaine567]

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-italy
CDC recommends that travellers avoid all nonessential travel to Italy.

Seems pretty clear.
Italy is the European hotspot for the virus.
Why would you want to go there?
Your "gf" is correct to advise  you to stay away.

[Wanderlust2018]

34 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

Possibly she wants you in stand-by-mode incase her new interest doesn't pan out. That's what I read but since you described the relationship as casual what were you expecting?

I agree with you that she is attempting to use the Corona virus as a blind to whatever else she had planned. Seems like a poor choice of diversion considering your background.

Casual yes, but I’d at least expect some forthrightness considering this is 6,000 miles away and involves a lot of time and energy. Who wants to waste their time, energy or expense, causal or not?

Interestingly enough, a friend of a friend, who I’m connected to via social media, is also there right now, and has been to one of the same cities we are supposed to travel to. A day or so ago, I sent her a msg asking what it was like at present with what’s going on and she said it’s all way overblown, media hyped, and that most of the country is going about business as usual. Totally different take and perspective on it all...go figure... I did btw share that other perspective with Ms. Casual. Not that I’m trying to convince her of anything, but rather, I just want her to know that I know more than she probably realizes. 

[schlumpy]

I also agree that the corona virus is being over-hyped. I remember instances in the past where authorities had cried wolf and all for naught. I will wait and see what develops. At the moment the virus is killing those with compromised immune systems, children and the elderly which is a common pattern of flu viruses.

I think the hype comes from politics, getting money for research, generating an audience for media, and other reasons I'm unaware of. The 2.5 percent mortality rate of the corona virus does compare to the Spanish flu that killed so many that the coffins had to be stored to await burial. Schools would lose a third of the children for next years classes. That's what a pandemic looks like. Still, 2.5 percent represents many people.

But we didn't have the medicines and care available in 1918 that are present today. It's good be cautious but I think it's unfair to induce hysteria in the general population who are more worried about what's happening on "90 day fiancée."

Your indifference should speak volumes to your GF. If not, then you should start looking locally.

[littleblackheart]

Can she genuinely be freaking out?

 

My friend's son just came back (to the UK) from a school ski trip in Northen Italy, and they're waiting to hear about having to be put on quarantine. A few schools have closed down here too.

 

General frenzy can (and does!) affect even the most rational person. Is there no possibility of her being sincere?

 

If your gut says it's a passive move and she can't verbally tell you straight up she's not feeling it, maybe take the lead and tell her yourself you don't think the relationship is going anywhere? 

You can still do go do your own thing and offer to meet up in Italy at some point, see where things are?

 

As an aside, very bold move to go on a 9-day away trip for a big birthday with someone you've only been seeing casually for just over 3 months! Was it meant as a 'couple' trip?

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by littleblackheart

[justwhoiam]

6 hours ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

Thoughts?

She's giving you the real story. You're playing it down because you're not there. But I am 🙂

No rioting though. That's plain BS 😂 We're helpful people, most Italians are. We're behaving just fine.

I assume you'd be landing in Malpensa. Now that's a bit risky, because many infected people flew from there or back there. Since you're so well informed, you know there are healthy people who are in intensive care, do you?

If you really feel like seeing her and being on the safe side, see if you can land in Rome (only 1 woman infected in Fiumicino so far), then rent a car and go pick her up. Where is she exactly? Italy won't be a good option for another week or two at least, because they closed down museums, cafés and pubs closed after 6 pm etc. any public gathering is prohibited at the moment. So you get a road toll "Vignette" and get into Switzerland and spend days there in nice chalets and hotels for a romantic vacation. I recommend Geneve, Chillon castle, Lucerne and some other places. Enter Switzerland from Aosta Valley not from Lombardy. They're way pickier there about people entering, and I expect even more so right now. Usually the other border from Aosta Valley is quiet. If they ask you, don't say you've been to Lombardy nor Veneto region, say you've just arrived from the US and you should be fine. You could land in Switzerland but that's more risky if you want to meet her and spend time with her.

Deaths are going up, 21 so far. From just one person, now we're at 821 known infected people. 10% need intensive care.

[snowboy91]

Coronavirus aside, I think that whatever path you decide should be based on this...

6 hours ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

 Met a gal back in early Nov

which is 3 months ago. Overall, I'd be worried that you want to consider if you want to uproot most of your life for this girl. Who, from your post, doesn't seem like she's adamant about you coming over. 

If she was that into you, she would behave in such a way that would push you towards joining her in Italy. I'm not getting that vibe here.

Also - from what I can tell, coronavirus isn't being freely transmitted in Italy, despite the number of confirmed cases so far there. That being said, it isn't that much of a stretch to suggest people are seriously freaking out about it and will adjust their travel behaviour (and expected travel behaviour) around it.

[Ellener]

I wouldn't go right now, and I'm not afraid of the illness so much as it's just it's not practically sensible to expose myself ( I'm self-employed with a high risk population for one thing, I could have to cancel work for weeks! ) or to frighten my customers by going when they've seen it hyped up on the news.

I've just come down with a mild upper respiratory illness myself here in Texas, probably nothing serious, March usually sets everyone's allergies off here with high pollen, then we get secondary sinus infections and coughs en masse...I don't need a doctor and I don't feel particularly ill but I'll just be more aware that there are raised fears of a potential pandemic. 

You don't know this new potential partner well so if either of you got sick it would be difficult, and maybe you are right, she is reconsidering the visit, but I wouldn't read too much into 'ulterior motives' etc. It was probably just too much too soon.

Dollar Tree sells small bottles of hand sanitizer 3 packs for $1.08 if it were me I'd pack up a dozen and mail them to her and send messages of encouragement and not push to visit right now if she's freaking out a bit ( and she's not the only one, thank you modern media...)

If it's meant to be you can go later when the panic calms down.

 

 

 

[Tamfana]

I would take her at her word and not worry about it. Since this is a more complicated time to travel there, don't.  You're not serious about each other anyway and you're "nowhere near falling for her."  Not really sure what the point of the relationship is other than just light fun and if that's the case, keep it light and worry free.  

Edited February 29, 2020 by Tamfana

[Gaeta]

And we all know the US is minimizing the importance of the epidemy. You don't beleive in it it's your right but you cannot force her into traveling across a country that has the most cases in Europe with entire cities being shut down. It's her life preservation instinct kicking it. Let her be. 

[Wanderlust2018]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-italy
CDC recommends that travellers avoid all nonessential travel to Italy.

Seems pretty clear.
Italy is the European hotspot for the virus.
Why would you want to go there?
Your "gf" is correct to advise  you to stay away.

The vast majority of people who have it, are asymptomatic or experience cold like symptoms. 

If I never went anywhere out of fear, due to illnesses, or crime for example, I’d probably never get anywhere. I travel to Mexico quite a bit and people think I’m crazy for doing that, yet the crime in a major city not far from me is far worse than where I travel to in Mexico...just saying, for example. 

[Wanderlust2018]

1 hour ago, littleblackheart said:

Can she genuinely be freaking out?

 

My friend's son just came back (to the UK) from a school ski trip in Northen Italy, and they're waiting to hear about having to be put on quarantine. A few schools have closed down here too.

 

General frenzy can (and does!) affect even the most rational person. Is there no possibility of her being sincere?

 

If your gut says it's a passive move and she can't verbally tell you straight up she's not feeling it, maybe take the lead and tell her yourself you don't think the relationship is going anywhere? 

You can still do go do your own thing and offer to meet up in Italy at some point, see where things are?

 

As an aside, very bold move to go on a 9-day away trip for a big birthday with someone you've only been seeing casually for just over 3 months! Was it meant as a 'couple' trip?

 

Possibly on the freaking out, but it does surprise me a bit from what I know about her. 
 

I am contemplating just going on my own regardless. I love to travel abroad and have done many solo trips in my life and had a great time, every time. 
 

On the couples trip, she traveled there first, alone, around 2-3 weeks ago, with plans to stay there for nearly two months, but invited me to join for a week or so. She’s a bit “nomadic” and is always on the go, which is in part why I don’t see it ultimately going anywhere serious.

She’s in a unique position of essentially being “retired” at around 50 and able to pretty much go and do as she pleases, when she pleases. I on the other hand, can afford to go and what not, but I do have a full-time career that’s a pretty big priority to me right now. 

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

She’s in a unique position of essentially being “retired” at around 50  

Another reason why I wouldn't want to travel through Italy. This virus seems harmless to young people but can render you really sick even die for older people. 

[Wanderlust2018]

2 hours ago, justwhoiam said:

She's giving you the real story. You're playing it down because you're not there. But I am 🙂

No rioting though. That's plain BS 😂 We're helpful people, most Italians are. We're behaving just fine.

I assume you'd be landing in Malpensa. Now that's a bit risky, because many infected people flew from there or back there. Since you're so well informed, you know there are healthy people who are in intensive care, do you?

If you really feel like seeing her and being on the safe side, see if you can land in Rome (only 1 woman infected in Fiumicino so far), then rent a car and go pick her up. Where is she exactly? Italy won't be a good option for another week or two at least, because they closed down museums, cafés and pubs closed after 6 pm etc. any public gathering is prohibited at the moment. So you get a road toll "Vignette" and get into Switzerland and spend days there in nice chalets and hotels for a romantic vacation. I recommend Geneve, Chillon castle, Lucerne and some other places. Enter Switzerland from Aosta Valley not from Lombardy. They're way pickier there about people entering, and I expect even more so right now. Usually the other border from Aosta Valley is quiet. If they ask you, don't say you've been to Lombardy nor Veneto region, say you've just arrived from the US and you should be fine. You could land in Switzerland but that's more risky if you want to meet her and spend time with her.

Deaths are going up, 21 so far. From just one person, now we're at 821 known infected people. 10% need intensive care.

Landing in Rome. Original plan was to travel north to Florence and Lucca. Possible day or overnight trek to Cinque Terre from there. She’s in Ferrazzano at present, so pretty well south.

To you suggestion is why I suggested to her going south, once I arrive in Rome...Sicily? Or taking a flight to Athens and/or Santorini. Switzerland is an option, if I do indeed go, as I have a stop in Zurich on the way. Love Lucerne, actually have been there twice previously! One of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been to. 

[elaine567]

16 minutes ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

She’s in a unique position of essentially being “retired” at around 50

OK so she isn't "young".
This virus appears to be more severe or even fatal in older people. 
Anyone older or with increased risk factors is getting a bit twitchy here in the UK anyway and we have nothing like the number of cases seen in Italy. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by elaine567

[Wanderlust2018]

3 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Another reason why I wouldn't want to travel through Italy. This virus seems harmless to young people but can render you really sick even die for older people. 

Easy there @Gaeta...I’m 50 in about 3 weeks and don’t consider myself an older person! Older than some, yes, but younger than others! Haha

We are by the way, both very healthy, active, fit, etc.

[Redhead14]

15 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Another reason why I wouldn't want to travel through Italy. This virus seems harmless to young people but can render you really sick even die for older people. 

The larger problem is that the more people who expose themselves, whether it affects them seriously or not, the more other people who are likely to become exposed and then overwhelming the medical care systems of communities/cities/countries.  It's not so much that one could die from it, it's the concern that any sniffle, etc. might be COVID and running to the ER.  If the hospitals are overrun with non-Covid cases, the really serious cases get delayed care, if at all.

My point is that if this guy decides to go over there, risks exposure, he's risking bring it back here or spreading it else where.  He's just one more potential "carrier".  The reason SARS, etc. isn't still an issue was that containment was quicker and successful.  What's the big deal if he re-schedules?  Most airlines are allowing refunds/ticket changes, etc. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Redhead14

[elaine567]

You are still medically "older".

[Gaeta]

3 minutes ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

Easy there @Gaeta...I’m 50 in about 3 weeks and don’t consider myself an older person! Older than some, yes, but younger than others! Haha

We are by the way, both very healthy, active, fit, etc.

You may be very healthy but example, getting chicken pox at your age would knock you out and could even bring a series of complications, not if you get it at 2 years old. 

I am 54 and in good healthy but my body and organs are still 54 years old, with the immune system of a 54 years old, I don't recuperate as fast, I don't heal as fast, I have less endurance. 

I think she is not brushing you off, you cannot change how she feels about this. You have identified her as being a very smart woman so you should just respect her wish and not minimize her fears. 

 

[littleblackheart]

 

26 minutes ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

Possibly on the freaking out, but it does surprise me a bit from what I know about her.

Fair enough.

 

26 minutes ago, Wanderlust2018 said:

I am contemplating just going on my own regardless. I love to travel abroad and have done many solo trips in my life and had a great time, every time. 

That sounds like a great plan, tbf. I'm very envious, I have to say :).

 If the flight's booked and you've already taken days off work, why not take full advantage.

 

People still do travel across Europe. Ok, maybe not to Northern Italy, but Rome can just be a stop gap?

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by littleblackheart

[Wanderlust2018]

All good input, thanks, but yet, if it were so “worrisome” then why not get out of there and fly back to the U.S. NOW?!? She has no tie or need to be there, other than she likes to travel, and the change fee on the ticket isn’t an issue for her. This is one of the things that got me thinking of an ulterior motive. I just bring this up for arguments sake because if it were me, being “that worried” there, I’d high tail it home yet she’s indicated she plans on staying for the duration of her trip yet dispenses advice on reconsidering coming?!? Come on...  Just seems off to me and very contradictory in terms of words vs. actions...but that’s just me...

Edited February 29, 2020 by Wanderlust2018
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