right response 10 years after death of an adult child?

[d0nnivain]

A friend of mine lost her daughter 10 years ago.  The adult daughter died suddenly & unexpectedly of a brain aneurysm.  It devastated my friend & she talks about her daughter all the time.  Never having had kids, I can't speak to the love, the heartache or the loss.  That said many others have told her it's time to get over it.  I think that is harsh but I have gently suggested that she be more circumspect about when, where & to whom she discusses this tragedy. 

She has been habitually & chronically unemployed since her daughter died & she is having a hard time getting a new job. I took her to a professional event recently where she had some potential to make connections that would get her a job.  7 minutes in she was telling everybody about her daughter's death . . . & I mean details not just mentioning the tragedy in passing.  Yes, I bothered to look down at my watch to see how long we'd been there when she started talking about her daughter.   I have point blank said to her that she needs to stop talking about her deceased child during job interviews or at work.  She didn't take kindly to that suggestion but I know it's why she's not getting hired because she comes across as damaged & unreliable with poor boundaries.  

Anyway, Friday would have been her daughter's birthday.  She posted something on FB about Happy Birthday to my daughter in heaven.  I did not react to the post but a lot off people did, especially other members of her support group.  I think that is appropriate.  I saw my friend briefly yesterday but didn't mention her daughter.  

Now I'm feeling guilty that I didn't find something for us to do to distract her on what I'm sure is a heartbreaking anniversary. I'm debating asking her over for dinner tonight but I know that will annoy my husband.  Am I a bad friend?  

[nospam99]

You are not a bad friend, quite the contrary. Instead, you are one of the 'sympathetic LS posters' (37k posts) who often tries to offer helpful advice and I assume you are the same IRL. I suggest you discuss the dinner idea with your husband and see if the two of you can work it out so he won't be annoyed.

While, as a mostly 'traditionally' 'stoic male', I can't relate to your friend's behavior, I can relate to her feelings. My children are all alive and healthy. But just the thought of losing one of them brings tears to my eyes as I type this. I wouldn't say word one at a professional event. I don't even give a reason beyond 'personal business' when I take time off from work for family funerals. Both if I ever lose one of my children, I won't 'get over it' in this lifetime.

As for your chronically bereaved friend, there are all kinds of pertinent questions (which you need not answer here) that come to mind.
- Where is the father of the lost daughter?
- Was the daughter an only child?
- (As anti-counseling as I am - I judge every one that I've encountered to have been a quack, charlatan, and pharma-paid drug pusher), has she been to psychotherapy?

[preraph]

You're a good friend giving her good advice. I guess she's hoping someone will feel sorry for her and just give her a job with no expectations. You absolutely did the right thing telling her she should not be talking to people about that in interviews or bringing it up all the time if she ever gets a job. That's something you talk to your closest friends and family about and therapist. I'm glad she has some sort of support group. 

 

No she is never going to get over losing her daughter. You just don't. But she needs some boundaries and she needs to get her butt to work. So I think even further talking to her about having boundaries and acting professional is important, while at the same time letting her know that you know she'll never really get over it but she needs to learn what's appropriate. 

 

As a side note, someone whose work I check lost one of her children about 3 years ago. Her work has always been sloppy, but ever since she lost her child and I go to the supervisor or even the person who contacts her to get her to correct it, they will sometimes say how she lost a child as if that's an excuse for crap work. I quickly remind both of them that she was sloppy and did bad work before the child ever died.

Edited March 1, 2020 by preraph

[d0nnivain]

My friend had been divorced from the father for most her daughter's lifetime.  He was such a jerk he didn't even come to the funeral.  To her immense credit, the father's 2nd wife came to the funeral alone. 

My friend refuses therapy but she does go to a monthly support group for people who have lost children.  She is a Veteran & thinks all mental health professionals are quacks.  

Another local veteran here in town is a member of her support group.  His son died of an overdose.  I actually knew him for 10 years before I learned his son died.  He doesn't talk about it.  Even he told her that she needs to stop leading with her daughter's death.  Honestly, it's one of the 1st things she tells you when you first meet her.  It's rather jarring.  

She does have a living son & his GF is about to give birth to my friend's 1st grandchild.  The baby will have the daughter / sister's name as a middle name.  

When I say DH will be annoyed if I invite the friend over for dinner, I mean he will roll his eyes, sigh, hide in his man cave until I put the food on the table, come out to eat then scurry back in there away from us.  It won't shake my marriage.  

I liked her daughter & don't mind talking about.  I don't think she will or should get over the daughter's death. I just want her to stop talking about her daughter on job interviews.  She really doesn't understand that is why she doesn't get the job or why when it's contract work for a set period they don't ask her to stay. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by d0nnivain

[nospam99]

LOL (and in the mirror) at your characterization of DH. I vote for the dinner invitation.

[preraph]

She's really foolish for not availing herself of the veterans administration and using a therapist. I just have very little patience with people who poo poo medical and mental health care. You can't help them if they won't help themselves. I mean what's the worst that can happen in therapy? You decide you don't like the therapist and quit. 

 

I wish her support group would have an intervention with her and tell her to quit leading in business situations with her daughter's death. It's never going to go away for her so she needs to learn how to have boundaries about it. I mean it's going to affect how everyone treats her and it's going to make a lot of people avoid her because it's awkward. I doubt if the amount of sympathy she's getting can sustain her soul for very long. 

 

Maybe having a grandchild will give her something new to focus on. I honestly wouldn't care if she got mad about you telling her she's completely shooting herself in the foot at job interviews. I guess that's her excuse for why she hasn't had a job all these years but she's just self-perpetuating unemployment that way. Instead she could just tell them she was raising her family. 

[Ellener]

There's nothing you can do @d0nnivain she's coping the best she can for her and may never 'get over' her loss to other people's satisfaction. 

Plenty of people self-sabotage job interviews and employment, the more 'advice' you give the less she seems to be listening. I would stop at that point and let her work it out for herself, or not. It's her life.

The more you say you are then just playing the frustrating game of 'yes, but...' which for her somehow keeps the daughter alive and foremost in her mind. 

Don't feel obligated to spend time with her around others, including your husband, if she embarrasses you; if you want to be her friend and a good friend just spend time with her yourselves when you want to and set boundaries for yourself. When I was at my worst with anxiety disorder my dear friend planned little outings for us to try new menus or visit a park or garden center, and sent postcards from her travels and little cards or notes of general encouragement. I quickly grew to love the little oases of calm she created for me where we didn't talk about anything too deep, just did something positive in the moment. 

We can't 'fix' other people and sometimes a person just doesn't have enough resources or love in their life to be healthy or process their trauma to get past it. 

Acceptance of where someone's at, even if they seem 'stuck', is the key to being a good friend. Doesn't mean you have to join in or drop her either.

 

 

[Gaeta]

I don't ever want to be in her shoes but reading her story I was reminded of someone on my FB who constantly post about her kid having a fever, being at the hospital, having fell, etc. She is looking for attention and sympathy. I think your friend is addicted to 'sympathy', looking to get from people that *aawww poor you I am so sorry*. She is not interested in getting a job, she want people to feel sorry for her. 

[sothereiwas]

On 3/1/2020 at 5:45 AM, d0nnivain said:

Now I'm feeling guilty that I didn't find something for us to do to distract her on what I'm sure is a heartbreaking anniversary. I'm debating asking her over for dinner tonight but I know that will annoy my husband.  Am I a bad friend?  

If my kid dies before I do, it will probably break me. That said, you sound like you're being a good friend in a very tough situation. She's been devastated, and I can understand why. IMO people who are telling her it's time to 'get over it' are off base; some things one doesn't get over. I'm sure she'd love to get over it. My best to your friend.

[vla1120]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:58 AM, d0nnivain said:

She is a Veteran & thinks all mental health professionals are quacks.

I understand this - I was of the same mindset until I found myself in my current situation and really NEEDED to talk to someone to help me navigate through this situation. I went to about 10 therapists until I found someone who could benefit me.

Your friend needs therapy to help her navigate through her situation. It is keeping her from getting a job and living her life. Obviously, like me, a run-of-the-mill standard therapist will not work for her. If she refuses to go speak to someone about how this is stopping her from living her life, then there is not much you can do (except perhaps find a self-help book on dealing with the death of an adult child.)

Also, I don't know what I would do if I lost one of my daughters. I know I would never get over it, I'm sure no parent does fully recover. Oh! Maybe a self-help book about boundaries with strangers? I'm sure there is one out there.