Validation - what do you think?

[Legatus]

I have been talking to a therapist online for the past month after having got results of a personality test that I didn't expect. I realised that experiences of my past few months triggered a persona that I hadn't had before and while I'm getting past it, I want to make sure I will not go back to that person, and nobody will be able to trigger it, whether it be by ghosting or something else. 

One thing I realised is that I allowed myself to be breadcrumbed and did it myself a bit too, and that the probable intention behind it is seeking validation. Not personal validation but like insurance that what I had with somebody wasn't just meaningless fling, that the other person also thinks it wasn't. Don't get me wrong. I got few insurances like that from her, whether it was when we said goodbye, or when she told me through few tears that I do have to chase my dream in another country. Somehow it's not enough. 

I'm working through it and my other co-dependant behaviours that got triggered by ghosting but this validation seems very interesting to me. Has any of you had similar thoughts and needs?

[scooby-philly]

@Legatus - I'm always a bit apprehensive about the topic of co-dependency. I'm not arguing that as a "thing" it doesn't exist. But I think it's also a question of viewpoint/expectation/experience. Some people may view a set of behaviors as "co-dependent" when others would view it as "being in a relationship". Of course, it also comes down to patterns over time. But...with that caution noted, I think it comes down to who you are, what you want, what you need, and how much you sacrifice/give and give up versus what you get and how much the other person gives up. I know personally, I've had co-dependency issues in my relationships. I grew up with threats of abandonment and that has made me stick around around with relationships where I wasn't getting my needs met. And it's been hard for me to communicate and to self-validate my needs in relationships. And that has caused me a ton of heartbreak. I'll give you some examples from my most recent relationship since it's the freshest. She lived two hours away and had a busy schedule. So we didn't get to see a lot of each other and she was still living with family so we couldn't really just be a quasi normal "dating couple" spending time in the basics of life. I stopped doing a lot of hiking and stopped camping because it wasn't her cup of tea and mostly because we couldn't squeeze that in. Out of the relationship 6+ months now I can see it was ridiculous for me to stop doing that - one because it brings me joy and it's who I am - secondarily, because I wasn't getting anything close in return. She had self-esteem and communication issues and wasn't comfortable with herself or living her life or just enjoying life. So I wasn't getting a ton of affection or quality time in exchange. But maybe a better example was our intimacy. Because of the distance we would engage in some video and photo stuff. She would hardly ever initiate and as time wore on, the frequency became less and less and our intimacy in person was getting a bit stagnant because she wasn't comfortable with her sexuality. Now, I realize part of it was I was 14 years older and more experienced. But I was pretty open at that age and I was silly to not have my intimacy needs met (And not just sex) when combined with all of the other problems we had as a couple and she had as a person.

 

There's always a level of dependency in a relationship. I know I couldn't be with someone so INDEPENDENT that they never consulted me with major life decisions, never made time for me, I was only there to fill in the gaps on their calendar, and only wanted to pretend like they were in a relationship. Moving forward, I just have to remember that I should not stay in a relationship if my basic, and valid, needs are not being met and to remember that my needs/wants are valid. And that I deserve as much happiness as I try to give to others.

[Beendaredonedat]

Quote

 Some people may view a set of behaviors as "co-dependent" when others would view it as "being in a relationship"

Well, codependent relationships are dysfunctional, so there's that.  If you're happy in the codependent relationship (few are) then there is no problem.  It is when you stick around, are unhappy but you don't leave is when it is dysfunctional and the very meaning of codependency.  We are ALL codependent to some degree within a long term relationship, its when you give up yourself to the other, when you are unhappy but you stay is what causes one to be labelled/diagnosed with the 'ism.'  If you're unable to accept the things you can't change and be happy in that acceptance then can you really be called codependent?  I think not.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Beendaredonedat

[Legatus]

@scooby-philly I have no doubt it exists. In my case it was a dependency on somebody making me happy and not being happy on my own. You need to be a full person on your own rather than rely on others to give you the things that would normally come from within you. There's a difference between wanting to feel close to somebody and needing it obsessively, in order to feel secure - this is just an example of how I think in regards to co-dependency. 

Anyway you said you couldn't be with somebody independent. I think one thing that is sometimes missed is that co-dependency doesn't mean you're not an independent person. I know the words are pretty much in the same corner but I was still quite an independent person but I needed certain triggers and stimuli to feel like I wanted to feel. I obsessed a little bit too because that was the only source of my happiness. 

To put it in my current perspective I am only left with this need to feel like my time with the other person was meaningful. Life isn't that simple. Sometimes we go through things that turned out to mean nothing to the other person, and, unfortunately, that's how things are. This is the hardest part for me right now. I am not depressed or anything, I don't need to talk to her. I just feel the need to know that she didn't just brush everything off and moved on, even though it's a sensible thing to do and something I'm doing too..

[scooby-philly]

@Legatus - I understand and feel your pain. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying the existence of co-dependency - it's a real problem and has real implications on relationships and on people's lives. I simply wanted to point out that we need to be careful when using a term like that because you can't determine a psychological issue like that by looking at one or two isolated incidents in a person's life or even at a sole relationship - but must view things over time. And on the other front, I'm not saying people in a healthy relationship can't be themselves. I believe the word I prefer is "interdependent". That's the goal of a relationship. Doesn't mean I can't decide to go out to lunch with co-workers today and treat myself to a nice mid-day meal that goes beyond the normal fruit, yogurt, and nuts I eat for lunch most other days. But if my spouse and I (this is hypothetical as I am single) were trying to save money to buy a house, new furniture for it, etc. and I was constantly going out and not taking our shared goal into consideration, if I didn't ask her for blessing on it - because I'd expect her to clear unexpected purchases with me, then it wouldn't be part of a healthy relationship. I know that's not the best analogy, lol, but I've found that a lot of people - and it knows no socioeconomic, racial, or religious barriers, are just TOO independent. They expect to get the benefits of a relationship without doing the work of a relationship - like communicating, sacrificing, making decisions together, not always getting their own way, etc.

And I understand your point. That's one of the most difficult things about a breakup - especially if you're the dumpee or if you the dumper and you made clear what the problems were (and they were legit) and your partner chose to not try and help fix anything. Leaves you wondering what they ever felt, if they ever truly meant those words of love and kindness they let slip from their mouths so easily. Just remember, your definition of love is yours - find someone with a similar love vocabulary, a person who deserves what you give them.

[Legatus]

@scooby-philly besides, let's be honest. definitions vary and even if they are set by some therapists, they evolve and are changeable based on your circumstances.

Interesting point about one or two isolated incidents. I realised my dependency (just a general one) few weeks before I left the country and that's what I've been working on with my therapist who further noticed that in this case only I became co-dependent. It was weird because I was never like that and didn't have problems like that but somehow the ghosting triggered it. 

That is so true about the independence. I think I was always afraid to lose it but I've been different in the past few years where communication and shared goals do not trouble me because I know they won't mean that I won't have my own dreams and goals. Just means that there are new ones that are shared with somebody. Analogy, even if not the best, still makes perfect sense. 

Thanks, you're totally right, we define what we feel, and hopefully with a little bit of time I will not need this validation. Most of all I will make sure that nobody is able to trigger that version of me, that it won't even exist.. 

[scooby-philly]

1 hour ago, Legatus said:

@scooby-philly besides, let's be honest. definitions vary and even if they are set by some therapists, they evolve and are changeable based on your circumstances.

Interesting point about one or two isolated incidents. I realised my dependency (just a general one) few weeks before I left the country and that's what I've been working on with my therapist who further noticed that in this case only I became co-dependent. It was weird because I was never like that and didn't have problems like that but somehow the ghosting triggered it. 

That is so true about the independence. I think I was always afraid to lose it but I've been different in the past few years where communication and shared goals do not trouble me because I know they won't mean that I won't have my own dreams and goals. Just means that there are new ones that are shared with somebody. Analogy, even if not the best, still makes perfect sense. 

Thanks, you're totally right, we define what we feel, and hopefully with a little bit of time I will not need this validation. Most of all I will make sure that nobody is able to trigger that version of me, that it won't even exist.. 

@Legatus - Highlighted two things you shared. You never know, about yourself or another person, what may trigger certain behaviors. Things may lay hidden for years or decades and then boom - something happens and a reaction you never saw in a person before manifests itself. Sometimes understanding and addressing that sort of behavior is easy and clear. Sometimes, though, it takes a long time if things are buried and intertwined.  

And that's a very good way to look at it. I think a lot of people fall into one extreme of the spectrum or another. Like a healthy relationship is a at the center of a line where on one extreme you're completely co-dependent and on the the other extreme, you're completely unwilling to give up any independence. Now, that's not to say that people closer to one extreme or another can't get into relationships or even have long relationships....but that's also due to a ton of other factors. Truly healthy realationships are based, as you said - on people having compatible goals and learning to be vulnerable, communicate, and also realize that a relationship is about both parties working towards their individual goals together and towards the goals they share in common. As a quick, rushed example, if someone wants to live in the city and another wants to live in the country that's not necessarily an automatic deal breaker. It could be, but it doesn't have to be - it's about how other factors influence the relationship, how much the one person who sacrifices on location gets back by the other sacrificing in other areas. But it's also helpful for people to really work on themselves and understand what they truly want and what they truly need and who they truly are. I prefer city living because I like to walk and to not have to spend hours driving to run chores and errands. But I could live in the burbs or country as long as I wasn't spending hours on a commute everyday and if my partner was as committed to keeping the house and the land up to speed as I am and that we still visited the city once in a while for food, shows, etc.

[lonelyplanetmoon]

I don’t have much advice just wanted to respond for support.  I think I understand what you are feeling.  When someone ends it with you suddenly or something makes it end suddenly there is a shock that results in a response from that self that we can refer to as the ego.  Your ego lost its equilibrium.  Something has shifted in you.  Likely a growing opportunity, so keep working on yourself and you will find a different balance.  Wow do I sound like an astrology reading or what lol?
‘My ego had a similar response when my LTR ended.  It was really difficult to go through.

[scooby-philly]

Agreed with my adopted mom @lonelyplanetmoon. When something ends suddenly and without warning (to you, though the other person - if it's a breakup you didn't see coming - may have been preparing for it for days, weeks even), your sense of  self, your whole life can get thrown upside down. Your ego, your inner child even, will do whatever life has conditioned it to do to make sense of the world and avoid the pain for days or weeks. Then, at some point, you move past the first stage of grief - though you may fall backwards over and over again for short periods of time as your recover. My own recovery from my last relationship has really pointed out to me that in all of my ltrs I "settled". I stopped living my life in the last one, i settled for less affection, less sex, less of a lot of things just because I felt compelled to keep things going. That was my lesson to learn. Take what you can get from this and count it as a blessing. Seriously. It's not easy at first. In time, you will be able to look back and smile at the good times, shake your head at the bad times and the overall relationship and think "wtf was I thinking?". It does get better.

[Legatus]

I'm in a pretty good place right now but as more things come clear I always find it interesting to ask other people how they feel about it. My need for validation went away especially after I had done my social media detox recently, which helped me detach even more from her and, unfortunately, the group that we are both part of. 

 

[scooby-philly]

@Legatus

I know from experienced, and needed to remind myself this go around, that recovery from a relationship really acts like a rollercoaster where you sit blindfolded. (or maybe a dark one like space mountain at Disney World). You know you find yourself on a "ride". But you don't know the depths of the drop, can't plan for the sudden turns, and you never know when the ride will end until you just do....you look back and realize that the ups and downs no longer happen (related to the breakup) and you can look forward to the next ride!