Hopeful30 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) Do I expect too much for a man to court me and woo me prior to making a sexual move? Has this tradition of respect and genuine 'chase and conquer her heart' died out completely? I've always told my exes that they can make a move, but when it comes to sex for the first time, I prefer to make the decision when I'm ready (men are always ready lol women take more time usually). This lack of patience is off-putting, and I'm not sure if it's just me, but when a man makes a sexual move early, I interpret that as "he thinks I'm attractive but doesn't care beyond that to withhold his caveman urges". As in, yes men want sex, but how willing are they to wait for a woman to truly be ready? Have 'easy' women made men impatient? I've withheld my cave-woman urges of pouncing on men when they're displaying genuine emotion, because respecting my man's happiness and supporting him matters more than my sexual urges. Is it too much to expect the same? Edited March 3, 2020 by Hopeful30 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I think men who court and woo properly are extremely rare anymore. My boyfriend of 4 months got a little too touchy on date 1, and because of that I ended it and blocked him. Then he messaged me 2 weeks later asking for another chance, saying he couldn't stop thinking about me, was sorry and would go at my pace and try to contain his excitement. In spite of his fumble, I really liked him, too, so gave him another chance, and on date 2 he was super careful and didn't even try to hold my hand haha I think our very oversexualized pornified culture is largely to blame - and the fact that so many women now set the bar so very low. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
kendahke Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Guys will try it on with most women they try to get with. You have to not be afraid to let them know what the boundaries are and standing sentry to them, even if it means you cut them loose. Gladly, this tends to die off the older one gets, but there still are those anomalies floating about one will encounter. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I think it can be difficult men too. They’re kind of walk a tight rope. Show too much sexual interest you’re after one thing/ creep/perv. Don’t show enough you’re not interested/cowardly/weird. And it all depends on the woman too. 12 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Women wound up poking holes in their own lifeboat... Hookup culture aside, when you have legions of women out there just handing it out like Halloween candy, and some even complain when guys aren't sexually aggressive enough, then I really don't know what most women expect... Then when you do inform them that there are guys out there that are "old school" in their mentality. most women aren't finding those guys hot enough...Probably because they have no or very little experience with women... My only advice is be up front with what you want as a woman...You are the gatekeeper for the most part....I don't think these guys are particularly bad, but there is so much inconsistencies now, they don't know whether they are coming or going half the time.. TFY 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Blind-Sided Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) First... how old are you? I think there is an issue at hand... and that is... everyone is different. I've met girls who just wanted it hot, and NOW !!!!!! But I remember a girl I liked, long ago... I hung out with her for a long time before I even got my first kiss from her. Even my exW... we hung out, and I didn't even try to kiss her for a few weeks. And it was probably several months before we had sex. I've been pretty good about reading people. BUT, with that said... when reading here... there are a lot of women who say that they lose interest if the guy doesn't make a move of some kind right away. This isn't just the younger crowd either. It seems like people my age, who are recently divorced just want to hit OLD and screw their brains out. And guess what?? OLD apps seem to be full of those people. Some guys like me don't mind getting to know someone first, and letting that relationship build, before getting intimate. But... it's hard to know sometimes what the girl wants. Edited March 3, 2020 by Blind-Sided 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
simpycurious Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 There is a time and place for everything and to me there's no need to rush something like that. Get to know someone and enjoy their company then everything else will take care of itself when the time is right. I agree with FOOL (sorry) that women are the gatekeeper's and ultimately have the final say so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hopeful30 Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said: My only advice is be up front with what you want as a woman...You are the gatekeeper for the most part....I don't think these guys are particularly bad, but there is so much inconsistencies now, they don't know whether they are coming or going half the time.. How can I do this? It seems a bit strange to vocalize on a first date that "I expect you to win me over before I put out" lol Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, simpycurious said: There is a time and place for everything and to me there's no need to rush something like that. Get to know someone and enjoy their company then everything else will take care of itself when the time is right. I agree with FOOL (sorry) that women are the gatekeeper's and ultimately have the final say so. Don’t we wish all men were as respectful as you. You are a true gentleman, simpy. 😊 2 Link to post Share on other sites
simpycurious Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: How can I do this? It seems a bit strange to vocalize on a first date that "I expect you to win me over before I put out" lol I don't think you HAVE to vocalize it. Let your actions speak louder than your words. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Silver_star Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Not sure what experience has led you to post this. I am under the assumption you are a woman in the casual dating world, trying to find someone to have a relationship with, and men are maybe being presumptuous trying to get you back into bed, or being more physical/touchy then you would like. And in that regard...You don't expect too much if you need a certain amount of time before getting physical IF that is your standard/boundary. But you can't expect everyone to have the same outlook as you. Dating doesn't give them an invitation to touch you if you are uncomfortable, but you need to make your discomfort known and understood. Men that are dating you and getting to know you, will want to feel a physical connection to you. If there is a problem with that, then let them know of your boundaries. It's only fair. Also, it is not fair to call women who have sex when they want to "easy". It's 2020 gaddamit. Sex is not taboo between consenting adults. It doesnt matter if I have sex on the first date or the 50th date, it doesn't make me any less of a woman, or mean I should be respected any less. It can be very empowering as well, but I do respect and understand those that would rather wait and learn more about each other if that is what they would like to do, and if it helps them build the bond. You may have your own views and boundaries, but you can't expect everyone to align with your own interests/outlook on sex and relationships. You shouldn't make assumptions to what someone cares about or what they value based on whether they make a sexual advance (Again assuming in the context of dating not random sexual advances). If it is an unwanted sexual advance when you are dating of course you have a right to turn it down, and not allow your boundary to be crossed, ever. Again in my view its normal to want sex. It's a biological need, and it's important to partners in a long term relationship. It's okay to wait before being intimate with someone, but also its not fair to make assumptions on people that don't wait long. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Just now, Hopeful30 said: How can I do this? It seems a bit strange to vocalize on a first date that "I expect you to win me over before I put out" lol You don't have to be that formal... And what does "win me over" mean anyway?? Your life, but I wouldn't use those words...Its conveys a message that a guy may have to jump a lot of hoops... Just keep it light....If he gets grabby too soon, just say something like..."uh, I don't know you well enough"….but smile and do it in a playful way..(assuming you actually think he's a legit prospect)... Most better quality guys understand how this works and many women can get the message across without even saying a word,,,, TFY 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites
simpycurious Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 "Many women can get the message across without even saying a word"....no truer words have ever been typed. Body language, that certain look, you can get your message across and what is and is not appropriate. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, simpycurious said: "Many women can get the message across without even saying a word"....no truer words have ever been typed. Body language, that certain look, you can get your message across and what is and is not appropriate. A kick in the nards 1 Link to post Share on other sites
simpycurious Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Just now, Cookiesandough said: A kick in the nards If all else fails, what Cookie says 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hopeful30 Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, simpycurious said: I don't think you HAVE to vocalize it. Let your actions speak louder than your words. I don't have difficulty keeping men at bay. I have difficulty finding men who I don't need to keep at bay (they come too strong or too soon lol no pun intended haha). Sometimes I wish I didn't have such strong values and respect for myself. Makes dating life very difficult in this day and age, especially since (as another poster mentioned) that it's 2020 and this kind of mentality is rare. I don't want to compromise myself to avoid being single for the rest of my life, but at the same time, what's a girl to do? I am craving intimacy so bad right now. It's literally been years since I've even been touched by a man (not counting affection towards family of course). YEARS! By choice because I haven't met a man that I genuinely connect with who understands my worthiness to wait at least a few weeks before reaching for my hand, my mouth or my ass. Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 By the way, I told my boyfriend that I felt if he really liked me, he wouldn't risk messing it up by coming on so strong in the beginning - mostly based on stuff I'd read on this forum! He said for him it was the opposite - because he was so attracted and saw so much potential, he wanted to make it very clear he was interested, and "men don't get anywhere by being too nice." Later he told me not to take everything I read online as the gospel 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: How can I do this? It seems a bit strange to vocalize on a first date that "I expect you to win me over before I put out" lol You could say something like "I like to get to know a guy and go on a few dates before anything "bedroom" happens" or similar. Since there are some free dinners type women out there, make sure you make it clear that the dates don't have to be fancy and you're willing to split the cost after the first one. The point must be made that your sincerely interested in getting to know him. Some men will walk away from this, but possibly those aren't the guys you want to be dating anyhow. 14 minutes ago, simpycurious said: "Many women can get the message across without even saying a word"....no truer words have ever been typed. Body language, that certain look, you can get your message across and what is and is not appropriate. As true as this is, body language can also be easy to misinterpret. It's easy enough to say "no" with body language, but that might not convey that you're interested in getting to "yes" just not right away very well. So by all means use body language, but be sure to follow up with some form of explanation for clarity. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 52 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: Do I expect too much for a man to court me and woo me prior to making a sexual move? Has this tradition of respect and genuine 'chase and conquer her heart' died out completely? Outside of those who's circumstances dictated a chaperone, was it ever a tradition? My late grandmother's diary in 1938 describes my grandfather getting far too handsy when they first started dating. She put him straight 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: I don't want to compromise myself to avoid being single for the rest of my life, but at the same time, what's a girl to do? I am craving intimacy so bad right now. It's literally been years since I've even been touched by a man (not counting affection towards family of course). YEARS! By choice because I haven't met a man that I genuinely connect with who understands my worthiness to wait at least a few weeks before reaching for my hand, my mouth or my ass. If the man is truly interested and not just after something fleeting, he'll respect your preferences. Once I agreed to give it another go with my boyfriend, on date 2 he didn't even try to hold my hand and made it clear he wanted to keep taking me out until I felt comfortable with any of that. Once he successfully convinced me he wasn't just after sex, I didn't make him wait too long. I wanted him bad, too! Which is probably a big part of why he felt it was OK to be so touchy on date 1. I don't think I can give very good advice on how to subtly communicate your preferences on this early on. Myself, I'm very sexual and when I'm with a man I'm attracted to I think I come across as smoldering and unintentionally give him flashing green lights, even though I never intend to do this. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 59 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: Why don't men try to win your heart first? Simple answer: Pragmatism. I spent my late teens and most of my twenties wooing women and trying to win them over. I didn't get positive results. If a woman has little to no sexual interest in me, there's nothing I can do to win her over. If a woman does have sexual interest in me, she doesn't "need" to be won over. With that being said, I still believe in romantic gestures, but I generally reserve them for after we've slept together. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hopeful30 Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said: If the man is truly interested and not just after something fleeting, he'll respect your preferences. Once I agreed to give it another go with my boyfriend, on date 2 he didn't even try to hold my hand and made it clear he wanted to keep taking me out until I felt comfortable with any of that. Once he successfully convinced me he wasn't just after sex, I didn't make him wait too long. I wanted him bad, too! Which is probably a big part of why he felt it was OK to be so touchy on date 1. I don't think I can give very good advice on how to subtly communicate your preferences on this early on. Myself, I'm very sexual and when I'm with a man I'm attracted to I think I come across as smoldering and unintentionally give him flashing green lights, even though I never intend to do this. I appreciate your honesty, and I understand where you're coming from. As other posters have mentioned, a woman may give the impression of "yes" even though she is not quite ready yet and has interest in pursuing things further before getting sexual. I suppose the best approach is to meet his advances with your boundaries as they come. I'm just feeling hopeless that I haven't met my match yet It's tough having the minority mentality (at least I feel like I have a minority mentality). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HappySenior Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: Do I expect too much for a man to court me and woo me prior to making a sexual move? Has this tradition of respect and genuine 'chase and conquer her heart' died out completely? I've always told my exes that they can make a move, but when it comes to sex for the first time, I prefer to make the decision when I'm ready (men are always ready lol women take more time usually). This lack of patience is off-putting, and I'm not sure if it's just me, but when a man makes a sexual move early, I interpret that as "he thinks I'm attractive but doesn't care beyond that to withhold his caveman urges". As in, yes men want sex, but how willing are they to wait for a woman to truly be ready? Have 'easy' women made men impatient? I've withheld my cave-woman urges of pouncing on men when they're displaying genuine emotion, because respecting my man's happiness and supporting him matters more than my sexual urges. Is it too much to expect the same? I made the latest ex-husband wait two weeks (for our tests to come back). I won't say he was completely patient. He wanted to "cuddle" with me and I am certain he hoped to break the barrier anyway. But I was uncertain and so we waited. He told me stories of women who jumped right in on the first date. He didn't outright say so, but he certainly did not seem to mind and I got the impression he never wore protection either. The other thing is we broke up once but he made overtures of getting back together. I was ill and he showed up when I needed him, but not before disappearing for a couple of days. Turned out I wasn't ready to restart the sexual part of our relationship, so he went to the ex-girlfriend for that over a weekend trip. sigh... I should have known better, but we were two weeks rekindled when I found out - because she had his new phone number. He tried to make me think I was crazy for thinking that but after she sent me "proof", I should have bailed. Instead we stayed together and I made the decision to marry him anyway; thinking that I don't deny sex so this should not happen again. But the lying made me so uncertain; I found I could never trust him again. And in the end, I shouldn't have. I guess that's off topic. I gave it up quickly with my 2nd husband. Or I should say, he did. I was divorced and had a child; he was still in high school. We married before he graduated. But I have always at least waited for the exclusivity clause. And no one has ever wandered off because of that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hopeful30 Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Shining One said: If a woman does have sexual interest in me, she doesn't "need" to be won over. Nonsense 😂 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, HappySenior said: I gave it up quickly with my 2nd husband. Or I should say, he did. I was divorced and had a child; he was still in high school. We married before he graduated. Interesting anecdotes, but oh my gosh, I read this so wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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