Why don't men try to win your heart first?

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

How can I do this? It seems a bit strange to vocalize on a first date that "I expect you to win me over before I put out" lol

Work on your phrasing, but yes exactly let your style, desires and expectations be known.  

You can say you like to take it slow and really get to know someone before you get physical.

As with all things, it’s no protection against the jerks   Yet it will be a breath of fresh air to men who feel the same way...who also feel they are judged if they don’t try for a kiss by date 3 or sooner.  
 

[alphamale]

2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I think men who court and woo properly are extremely rare anymore.

 

it's not 1789 anymore RS 

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

I think you pointed out something important here. I have an expectation of men to respect me as a woman, period. This expectation includes no sexual advances until I hint that they're appropriate. Am I being too strict about this? 

Heck no!  
I don’t even attempt a kiss, and I guess I often ask, if not getting clear signals, let alone more.

Although try not to fault a man who tries to touch or hold your hand, just explain how you feel about these things.   A good man will give you space.   

[Ruby Slippers]

16 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Yet it will be a breath of fresh air to men who feel the same way...who also feel they are judged if they don’t try for a kiss by date 3 or sooner.  

Yes. It also communicates very clearly that you have high self-respect and aren't looking to get with just anybody, something quality men find very attractive. 

[alphamale]

5 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

... something quality men find very attractive. 

what's your definition of a "quality man"?

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, alphamale said:

what's your definition of a "quality man"?

The kind of man most women want - serious, honest, relationship-minded, accomplished, attractive, masculine, etc.

[alphamale]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The kind of man most women want - serious, honest, relationship-minded, accomplished, attractive, masculine, etc.

sort of like the Marlboro man but without the cigarettes? 

[Gr8fuln2020]

1 minute ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The kind of man most women want - serious, honest, relationship-minded, accomplished, attractive, masculine, etc.

None of this speaks of having sex early or later. Of course any serious man (person) wants these qualities in a partner.

I value physical intimacy. Sex. Most women I have dated do also. It may be my age, 51, but most women around my age are not hesitant about expressing their physical needs. They don't create false pretenses. Mature relationship types. I court and woo while being involved in a physical relationship. It feels more natural this way.

[Foxhall]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I think men who court and woo properly are extremely rare anymore.

Really??

[OatsAndHall]

3 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

How can I do this? It seems a bit strange to vocalize on a first date that "I expect you to win me over before I put out" lol

The easiest way is to only agree to dates in public places for awhile. No "Netflix n' chill" sessions, no invites to each others' places for dinner or a nightcap, etc..etc.. Go out, have fun dates in public and see where things go. Three to four dates of this will keep things tame and weed out those guys that are looking to get laid. You can still have physical contact (kissing, holding hands, etc..etc..) but the prospect of anything beyond that is shot down by the environment.  If you're comfortable meeting in a non-public place, then you can lay out your boundaries; "I'd love to come over for dinner but please don't expect to be making me breakfast the next morning."

And, yes, I will agree with what has been posted about the inconsistencies. Sex has ceased to be something that happened organically and turned into something that generally needs to be discussed. I've had my fair share of women invite me over to their places for movies, dinner, (etc..). I never expected to have sex but some women were quite gung-ho about it while others would get hot n' heavy and then slam on the brakes. It never frustrated me as I tend to move slowly in respect to physical intimacy but it could certainly make for some uncomfortable situations.

 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

This leads me to my next question. How can you demonstrate to a man that he's not wasting his time? I understand that women who don't show interest at all are probably using the man to get free meals. But what about the women who have genuine interest but need more time? What's a good way to approach this?

You're asking the wrong person.  😉

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

None of this speaks of having sex early or later. Of course any serious man (person) wants these qualities in a partner.

I value physical intimacy. Sex. Most women I have dated do also. It may be my age, 51, but most women around my age are not hesitant about expressing their physical needs. They don't create false pretenses. Mature relationship types. I court and woo while being involved in a physical relationship. It feels more natural this way.

That's my situation and experience as well.

Nevertheless if a woman wanted to take it slow, I can respect and go with that.  I think it is fair to say a "quality man" is one who will respect her view and pace, and may even as a bonus who shares this world view with her.  I am not one for being as slow as seems to be suggested but would have no problem with it if she was fun and engaging in non-physical ways....in fact that deep intellectual, spiritual, etc. engagement is the thing that is hard to find; sexual compatibility is pretty easy. 

However, given my cultural and life experience expectations, hints may no be enough as I may take them as no interest and move on.  Rather a simple phrase such as she likes to take it slow and get to know someone before getting physical is enough.  Heck she can even say she is attracted to me but wants to wait.   Nothing more is really needed, just point me to the right book, if I ever wonder I will ask to make sure we are on the same page.   

In my view a quality person (let alone man) can take and appreciates honest and kind communication.

[Woggle]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The kind of man most women want - serious, honest, relationship-minded, accomplished, attractive, masculine, etc.

It's the kind of most women say they want. What they say and what they actually do are two very different things. These days relationship minded men get chewed up and spit out. 

The truth is that men on average tend to go where the women want them to go and men look at what women do rather than what women say. If more women wanted old fashioned kind of men then more men would be that. If women really want this then start rewarding men like that. Show through tangible evidence that being relationship minded doesn't just lead to a man getting cheated on with a jerk or being married to a woman who feels she settled for him and is unhappy.

I know I sound harsh but from where a lot of men are standing these days being relationship and commitment minded just doesn't pay in the end. Women have the power to change that if they want to.

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

This leads me to my next question. How can you demonstrate to a man that he's not wasting his time? I understand that women who don't show interest at all are probably using the man to get free meals. But what about the women who have genuine interest but need more time? What's a good way to approach this?

One, need to know you like to take it slow as the reason.  Two, we are having a good time together, doing things to get to know each other, go out not just to eat but to do or see something...basically fun.  Three, she is working as well to get to know and "woo" me.  Four, set up and pay for some dates (don't be cheap  ) after maybe date 3 or so; I'm thinking a 1 to 3 ratio, for every 3 he does you  do 1.

Setting up a date is important for a couple of reasons, it can be used to show and introduce him to things you love, or to show you listen and understand the things he loves.

Someone out to just use a guy and string him along I suspect doesn't put any effort into the dates, expects to be entertained, and won't come anywhere near paying for anything of consequence.  I have been lucky to never have encountered this so it is pure speculation on my part, but those could be my more generic filters if ever felt needed them.

For me, you retain my interest by engaging my mind and heart, if you are the best conversation I've ever had, every meal and trip will be free just for the conversation alone

Edited March 4, 2020 by SumGuy

[Gr8fuln2020]

I would like to add something sobering, if I may...

I find many women in my age group to be resigned to their 'fate' as they say. I am starting to wonder myself. After a broken long relationship or many smaller ones, I find that many of the ladies are not necessarily looking for or fully expecting another LTR. Yes, of course, they claim to want one, but so much in their lives have happened and so much of their past continue to impede upon their current lives, that a new relationship becomes much more difficult. That and many are almost trapped to their locale and finding the dating pool getting smaller and smaller or the men not much different from what they left behind or escaped. At this point, most are looking for intimacy and a connection. Does this sound a little depressing?

I think I am starting to feel this way as well. I am always positive, but wonder if there is someone local that I can find final peace with...[sigh]

[simpycurious]

6 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Don’t we wish all men were as respectful as you. You are a true gentleman, simpy. 😊

You are so sweet Cookie 

and I thank you 

[Blind-Sided]

12 hours ago, Woggle said:

A) It's the kind of most women say they want. What they say and what they actually do are two very different things.

B) These days relationship minded men get chewed up and spit out. 

C) The truth is that men on average tend to go where the women want them to go and men look at what women do rather than what women say. If more women wanted old fashioned kind of men then more men would be that......

a) You are absolutely right with this. In my younger years... when I was dating very actively... girls would say... "I want the sensitive guy who is nice, and listens to me."  Guess what... that guy was "Friended". OR... totally overlooked because he was boring, or shy.  Right now... I have an female friend who is educated, and has a good career. But she is throwing away a perfectly good husband.  She is having an A with a guy who is a total D-bag.  He's a production worker, and lives with his mom. (not that I have issues with physical jobs. But I dont' know if he finished HS, and I know she says that education  is important)    She knows better, but he's fun to be with. (Her H wants to be at home with the kids... the BF wants to go to bars, and do fun things)

b) Yep.  See above.

c) Yep on this too. I tend to go slow with relationships, because I was brought up to respect people.  I'm the guy that has no issues "Dating" someone for months before something physical happens if I think that girl needs that.  BUT... I can tell you... there have been several girls who were aggressive, and gave clear signals of what they wanted... and I was more than happy to have the one-night-stand, or FWB situation. But regardless... the woman dictated how things progressed.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[schlumpy]

"Why don't men try to win your heart first?"

Because the heart is hidden and not easily revealed.

[chillii]

13 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Yes. It also communicates very clearly that you have high self-respect and aren't looking to get with just anybody, something quality men find very attractive. 

Exactly , never gone for any other type of woman myself , matter of fact so many of them out there now make me rather sick the way they do things these days.

 

 

 

 

 

[introverted1]

13 hours ago, SumGuy said:

in fact that deep intellectual, spiritual, etc. engagement is the thing that is hard to find; sexual compatibility is pretty easy. 

Yep.

I wait because I need that intellectual/emotional connection.  I typically know right away if I'm attracted physically.  Acting on it, though, requires something more.

[Gr8fuln2020]

15 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Yep.

I wait because I need that intellectual/emotional connection.  I typically know right away if I'm attracted physically.  Acting on it, though, requires something more.

Wait how long? I haven’t met a single woman who hadn’t said the same thing and very soon became intimate. So, did the ‘something more’ occur after one date? 2? 5? 

Such sentiment only reinforces a reality that everyone woman requires different somethings to occur. I have only met one or two questionable women while the the others have been mature, independent. Just because some women have sex earlier doesn’t mean they are any less...

[SumGuy]

2 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Wait how long? I haven’t met a single woman who hadn’t said the same thing and very soon became intimate. So, did the ‘something more’ occur after one date? 2? 5? 

Such sentiment only reinforces a reality that everyone woman requires different somethings to occur. I have only met one or two questionable women while the the others have been mature, independent. Just because some women have sex earlier doesn’t mean they are any less...

I'm only speaking for myself.

Will say with the deepest connections it is apparent from date 1.   These are dates that shut the place down, ones where there is 5 or 6 hours of talking and exploring ideas, much laughter and picking up on each others references as if known each other for years; exploring topics many would be shocked would come up on a first date.   

Being older and wiser good to see it it if but a fluke, so date 2.  If it as good or better then on to date 3 with much communication in between (and given the reality of life we have been communicating for 3-4 weeks by that point)..then...I'm a bit of a hedonist though I believe and willing to take a chance and even when things did not work out in the end there was a connection just life paths and goals sometimes do not align as much as we'd hope.

Sex earlier doesn't make any one less or lessen their value in any way in my view.   I've seen no connection in my life between when we had sex and how good the relationship was.  It's not when you have sex so much but why in my opinion.  You can feel enough connection to do so on date 1 or even not after 6 years. 

It should never be about when you should or should not, but about if you feel whatever is your why has been met...though one should look at ones past and see if they have a tendency to jump too soon (i.e. things go sideways fast) because no ones judgment is perfect.  In general though waiting, if there is areal connection, rarely is a bad thing especially if there is communication.

 

Caveat:  Not saying sex needs to be done in the context of seeking a ongoing connected relationship, for fun with the right person is just as valid...I'm just lazy and greedy and want more than a ONS.

[Gaeta]

You need to advertise your dating style right at the beginning. You tell the gentleman that you are not one to jump into bed early, let him decide if this is something he is willing to do. Also this way you'll meet less men but better suited ones. 

Waiting 2-3-4 months for sex is not a guarantee things will work out together. Sexual connection and compatibility is important so personally it's not something I want to put on a shelve for too long. 

[contel3]

I completely get where you're coming from. I don't need to take it as slow as you do, but even at my faster pace I still meet people where I just end up feeling uncomfortable….

It's kinda upsetting but when I think about it it's not necessarily a bad thing. My experience has been that the only men it went any further with were those who noticed my body language. They would try, but quickly notice if I wasn't into it. And try again when I did seem enthusiastic. The dates where I felt uncomfortable mostly didn't, regardless of pace….

You could try to casually slip it into conversation. Maybe just mention that you don't really feel comfortable kissing on the first date and like to let the tension build. It might be a bit direct, but you can also tell him that getting to know him is like foreplay for you. If you make it sound sexy instead of defensive they're more likely to stay interested.

Edited March 4, 2020 by contel3

[elaine567]

17 hours ago, Hopeful30 said:

Physical contact on the first date is too much for me (holding hands, mouth kisses, arm around my waist, etc.) Kissing on the cheek is fine, it's actually part of my culture when you greet someone (touching cheeks and mwak!)

Physical contact after a few dates, such as kiss on the cheek, hand on the waist (she's my date) is fine with me.

If you are dating outwith your culture then maybe some explanation is necessary as I guess most Western men would not see holding hands as a no no or being too forward on a first date.
I would take holding hands as a sign of romantic interest.
But i get it, you want old fashioned respect, you do not want your booty grabbed before dessert has even arrived...and saying "Down boy" gets rather old when a guy repeatedly pushes boundaries.