I (BS) Lost that Loving Feeling. Want it Back

[TooLateNow]

I posted a long thread a while back. 

In sum, my WW had three affairs, hid two of them for decades, lied about the extent of the third one for many years, then refused to allow me to discuss the affairs after she finally decided to tell "all" (at least what she could "remember.")  She also treated me like crap for a very long time even after her last disclosure. I did try to discuss her affairs and her poor treatment of me and my feelings about it all with her  a few times over the years, but that always ended in her crying and me feeling bad for her and just stopping the conversation.  Things finally came to a head a little less than a year ago when she told me that she was now the "victim" because I could not "get over it." I told her that I did not want her to suffer like that so she should just go and try to be happy with someone else or even by herself. It turns out that this is not what she wanted.  I then started IC and began researching affair recovery through articles and forums like this one. I realized all the mistakes I made after the affairs and the disclosures and finally stood up for myself and made her talk it out with me and I did not give in when she cried.  She then somehow finally "got it." She is now extremely remorseful and is doing everything I have asked her to do to help me and more.  She has also become the model wife and very loving and attentive.  She has become the wife I always wanted and better than I could have ever dreamed for.  I was very happy about this and very happy in general for several months.  All this is set forth in detail in my previous thread including the progression that got us to that point.

Now after these incredible changes in my wife and several months of feeling so great, my feelings are changing a little.  At some point recently,  I started to feel some resentment along the lines of why could she not have just done this years ago.  Why did she treat me so poorly for so long and how could it be so easy to change so drastically now? I guess it was at least partly my fault for not sticking up for myself and just letting her get away with it, but I still am feeling some WTF-type feelings and really blame her mostly for not doing the right things to fix the harm she caused with her bad decisions and bad actions and overall extreme selfishness.

Also, and probably more significantly, I am feeling like I am losing my love for her. I so desperately for so many years wanted her to be like she is now. Now that she is being the wife I always wanted, I just am not feeling the love I felt for her in the past anymore.  I sort of feel like "I love her but am not in love with her." How ironic!

This seems so unfair, to me and to her. Now that she is doing everything I ever wanted I am losing my strong feelings for her.  Now that she is doing everything that she possibly can do to repair our relationship, I am not feeling it like I had in the past or even like she is now.

I want to be madly in love with her like I was in the beginning and like I was even through the worst of it and like she clearly seems to be now.  Is that possible?  What can I do? 

Please help me! I feel like I am doomed to be unhappy or at last unable to enjoy life like I want to enjoy it.

[Marc878]

3 affairs = serial cheater.

There is such a thing as too much damage.

A lot go through the “just want them back” stage then they get buyers remorse. What did you get back?

Maybe wake up to the reality that you had you cheater wife on a pedestal and you were in love with a fantasy that you conjured up in your head. Now you’ve seen her for who she really is.
 

It sounds like you are more the problem than the wayward you’re married to. 
 

Let her go and find someone worthy. You’re the prize here not her.

 

[mark clemson]

15 minutes ago, TooLateNow said:

At some point recently,  I started to feel some resentment along the lines of why could she not have just done this years ago.  Why did she treat me so poorly for so long and how could it be so easy to change so drastically now? ... I still am feeling some WTF-type feelings and really blame her mostly for not doing the right things to fix the harm she caused with her bad decisions and bad actions and overall extreme selfishness.

Also, and probably more significantly, I am feeling like I am losing my love for her. I so desperately for so many years wanted her to be like she is now. Now that she is being the wife I always wanted, I just am not feeling the love I felt for her in the past anymore.  I sort of feel like "I love her but am not in love with her." How ironic!

Yes, you're "falling out of love". But what does that mean? Here are some guesses for you:

I think part of this is simple resentment that has built up + resentment over the affairs themselves. Completely understandable, in fact it's a testament to how much you loved her that you took her back at all. Some might see that as a "mistake" and there's some logic to that view, but ultimately it's up to the BS.

I think part of this is that you don't fully trust her anymore. How could you fully trust her after all that? And it's hard to "love" if you can't trust.

Third part, IMO. I think this is why (some) folks need a partner with a "challenge level". It's counterintuitive, but part of "love" for many people is in part chasing and "winning" their partner. Her distance created a certain amount of emotional neediness in you. As bad as that sounds, that "neediness" drove you to need her. Now that you have her completely, the game is "won" and she loses some value. Furthermore, healthy or not, that neediness, longing for her that was created by her distance is a part of valuing her that you got quite accustomed to and I think, for you (as it is for many people), was part of "love". 

For better or worse, "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen" is a real phenomenon. She's no longer treating you so mean. And you're no longer quite as keen.

[TooLateNow]

1 hour ago, Marc878 said:

A lot go through the “just want them back” stage then they get buyers remorse. What did you get back?

Maybe wake up to the reality that you had you cheater wife on a pedestal and you were in love with a fantasy that you conjured up in your head. Now you’ve seen her for who she really is.
 

It sounds like you are more the problem than the wayward you’re married to. 
 

Let her go and find someone worthy. You’re the prize here not her.

 

You may be right about this. But I fell like what I "got back" at this point is everything I always wanted in the first place (minus the past actions). I definitely had her on a pedestal and realize now how wrong I was. I probably am more the problem than her at this point, which was probably true for a long time anyway with the way I let her get away with everything and basically bully me and cry me into submission. But the truth is I want to be madly in love with her again, like she seems to be madly in love with me now.

[Marc878]

Google serial cheater so you know what you’re dealing with.

see what is versus what you want to see.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Marc878

[TooLateNow]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Yes, you're "falling out of love". But what does that mean? Here are some guesses for you:

I think part of this is simple resentment that has built up + resentment over the affairs themselves. Completely understandable, in fact it's a testament to how much you loved her that you took her back at all. Some might see that as a "mistake" and there's some logic to that view, but ultimately it's up to the BS.

I think part of this is that you don't fully trust her anymore. How could you fully trust her after all that? And it's hard to "love" if you can't trust.

Third part, IMO. I think this is why (some) folks need a partner with a "challenge level". It's counterintuitive, but part of "love" for many people is in part chasing and "winning" their partner. Her distance created a certain amount of emotional neediness in you. As bad as that sounds, that "neediness" drove you to need her. Now that you have her completely, the game is "won" and she loses some value. Furthermore, healthy or not, that neediness, longing for her that was created by her distance is a part of valuing her that you got quite accustomed to and I think, for you (as it is for many people), was part of "love". 

For better or worse, "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen" is a real phenomenon. She's no longer treating you so mean. And you're no longer quite as keen.

You seem very wise and gave me a lot of good advice on my earlier thread. 

It is definitely true that I am dealing with some resentment, which I want to get rid of for my own benefit as I know from experience allowing resentment to fester is physically and emotionally harmful and can ultimately lead to bitterness that makes things even worse.  My resentment over the betrayal and lying and deception and crappy treatment is mostly gone, but my new found resentment is about her not even trying to fix things for so long until very recently.  It is a feeling like "was that so hard" and "what took you so long."

It is also true that I do not fully trust her anymore. I do trust that she is not cheating and is not likely to cheat again.  But sometimes I get a bad feeling if something triggers me, like her asking about arranging to have workers come to the house to do work while I am gone. Really, it is pretty stupid, but I cannot help how I feel sometimes.

I am not sure about the "challenge" thing but it does make a lot of sense.  However, in the beginning I was not chasing her.  If anything, she was chasing me. We started dating in high school. She was a bit of a loner and outsider and was in fact new to the area when we met.  I was an exceptional athlete with state honors in two sports (wrestling champion and all state football player), a top scholar, and for those and other reasons was pretty much at the top of the high school food chain. I also had a VERY dark side that manifested itself physically on many occasions so that the people who did not love me at least greatly feared and respected me.  If I wanted a girl or a woman basically she was mine, and I took full advantage of that prior to meeting her.  We were married less than a year after we graduated.  So there was no chase at all in the beginning. But when the affairs started I definitely felt the "I need to win her back" feeling to the extreme and a great deal of "neediness."  Now that she is back to being crazy about me, I do feel I have lost that neediness.

Supposing all you have said is true, what can I do about it?  I do absolutely want to be crazy about her again!

Edited March 5, 2020 by TooLateNow
typo

[schlumpy]

You are right. She could have been what you wanted those many years ago if you had stood up for yourself like you so recently have done. She treated you like dirt because you allowed it. You didn't deserve it but it's who she is. She required you to be someone you were unwilling to be.

If you want to stay with her then marriage counseling is your only real option. I don't think that you can solve this between the two of you without third party intervention.

 

[TooLateNow]

18 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

Google serial cheater so you know what you’re dealing with.

see what is versus what you want to see.

Her last affair ended more than twenty years ago. I believe she is a "former serial cheater." 

[LivingWaterPlease]

Does she have any outside interests she's passionate about? Does she work outside of the home? Do you have children together?

[TooLateNow]

5 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

You are right. She could have been what you wanted those many years ago if you had stood up for yourself like you so recently have done. She treated you like dirt because you allowed it. You didn't deserve it but it's who she is. She required you to be someone you were unwilling to be.

If you want to stay with her then marriage counseling is your only real option. I don't think that you can solve this between the two of you without third party intervention.

 

I think it was who she was and no longer who she is.  We tried marriage counseling on two occasions but it did not go very well.  The first time it did not work because she insisted that we not disclose the cheating and also the counselor was, in my opinion, a bit of a quack who almost immediately without even really talking with us declared everything surely must be all my fault and we should just prepare to divorce.  The second time we were fully disclosing everything but just did not really get anywhere.  I think we might have been too early in recovery for marriage counseling as we both were just beginning IC and still had a lot of individual issues to work on at the time.  Maybe we should try again.  It is hard to want to put in the emotional effort after two failed courses of marriage counseling, but maybe it is necessary.

[TooLateNow]

3 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Does she have any outside interests she's passionate about? Does she work outside of the home? Do you have children together?

She has some outside interests, but most of her spare time is spent with me and our children and grandchildren. 

She works part time at a retail store, but ony a couple half days a week and mostly for the employee discount.  She does not need to work and has not worked much over the years, and she definitely does not need any kind of discounts for anything, but I think she mostly likes the time interacting with the customers and her co-workers (almost all women). She also has a little side business. She also helps me occasionally at my business (but not too much and sadly is not really that helpful, but she likes spending time with me at my office).

 

We have three adult children.  Two of them live nearby and are married with children. One of the grandchildren has been battling cancer for several years now since he was about a year and a half old.  Our youngest daughter died when she was twenty-one.

[Marc878]

58 minutes ago, TooLateNow said:

I think it was who she was and no longer who she is.  We tried marriage counseling on two occasions but it did not go very well.  The first time it did not work because she insisted that we not disclose the cheating and also the counselor was, in my opinion, a bit of a quack who almost immediately without even really talking with us declared everything surely must be all my fault and we should just prepare to divorce.  The second time we were fully disclosing everything but just did not really get anywhere.  I think we might have been too early in recovery for marriage counseling as we both were just beginning IC and still had a lot of individual issues to work on at the time.  Maybe we should try again.  It is hard to want to put in the emotional effort after two failed courses of marriage counseling, but maybe it is necessary.

The problem with MC is you might have a 50/50 chance of getting a decent one as you’ve seen. The marriage isn’t broken she is.
 

Bud, she cheats but controls you? You set yourself up for defeat here.

download and read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover it’s a free pdf and short. It may help you.

 

[BaileyB]

Three affairs that lasted decades is way too much water under the bridge for me... I don’t think I could forgive and move past that. It’s just way too much to ask of any person... I’m sorry. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, TooLateNow said:

Her last affair ended more than twenty years ago. I believe she is a "former serial cheater." 

Have you lived “happily” for the last twenty years? I mean, that’s a long time to stay in an unhappy marriage, especially if you are building resentment. What has changed to make you think - I can’t do it anymore? It seems to me a strange time to be having difficulty dealing with things - twenty years later...

Edited March 6, 2020 by BaileyB

[LivingWaterPlease]

1 hour ago, TooLateNow said:

She has some outside interests, but most of her spare time is spent with me and our children and grandchildren. 

She works part time at a retail store, but ony a couple half days a week and mostly for the employee discount.  She does not need to work and has not worked much over the years, and she definitely does not need any kind of discounts for anything, but I think she mostly likes the time interacting with the customers and her co-workers (almost all women). She also has a little side business. She also helps me occasionally at my business (but not too much and sadly is not really that helpful, but she likes spending time with me at my office).

 

We have three adult children.  Two of them live nearby and are married with children. One of the grandchildren has been battling cancer for several years now since he was about a year and a half old.  Our youngest daughter died when she was twenty-one.

Your problem is simple. You don't respect your wife and your wife, someone you resent and have no respect for, is smothering you.

You see her in your business mostly filling a spot, rather than contributing to its success.

When you and your wife were dating you were her goal. This gave her a sense of feeling alive and that was attractive to you. Once she married you she needed a new goal. So she had children.  She found that soon became routine and mundane, though she probably loved your children; being a mom.

But, she was bored. So she began having affairs. Because she was filled with passion and life and wasn't clinging to you, and was, in fact, keeping you at a distance, you desired her.

There came a point when she realized having affairs was a painful and useless past time so she stopped. You could say she matured in a way.

Now, she's not pursuing any goals other than you so not only is she smothering you with her neediness for a you (her present goal) you have the added problem of, understandably, resenting her infidelities and having lost respect for her.  

Your wife needs a worthwhile goal she's more passionate about than she is you if you're ever going to regain respect for her and be attracted to her again.  

I presume your work has provided you with challenges and goals to accomplish so you are fulfilling goals and needs in that realm.

You mention she's not really helpful in your business which may contribute to making her seem less attractive to you, even if subconsciously.

I'm going to change the subject a little here.

Inside of each person is a God-shaped void. Your wife has tried to fill hers with marriage, having children, having affairs and now losing herself in pushing herself on you. I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are but God has a plan for your wife to restore her self esteem (which she has lost by sinning against her own body in cheating) and to bring her challenges that are not you, and that will take the burden of her neediness off of you. They will also help her to grow into a person you respect and are attracted to. God has a way of bringing challenges we were created to accept and pursue and He'll do this for your wife. He will make her into a woman who doesn't need you, but will be an asset to you. 

But, she has got to become passionate about knowing God.  And she must grow with Him and mature in her relationship with Him apart from you. He has to be her goal.

The good news is that if she really opens her heart to God He will grow her into a fascinating woman you can once again love.  It'll be a win/win/win because she'll grow as a person, your marriage will be restored, and your family (grown children and grandchildren) will be kept intact so that your future will be more rewarding and so that your children's (and grandchildren's) worlds won't blow up and cause them angst through the divorce of their parents/grandparents. 

What can you, as her husband do about that at this point?

First off find a Christian counselor. Pray about it before you begin to look for one. Get to know God yourself through reading the Bible and daily prayer. Make it your first priority. And pray for your wife to find Him. 

Go to marriage counseling as you do this. 

Most of what takes place that's positive in you, her and in your marriage will be because of your individual relationships with God. But a Christian counselor will provide guidance for you and also buy you time as you both grow in your individual relationships with God.

I've written all this not knowing if you even believe in God. But, from all you've posted I believe it's your only chance to save your marriage and to make it stellar for your future. 

If you don't want God in your lives and in your marriage, I really have no advice for you except that your wife has to find something besides you to focus on if you're ever going to be able to be together. But, without God that's probably going to be just a bandaid, nothing that will really fix anything for the two of you.

 

[WilyWill]

I don't see that there's anything to work on. It's too much to ask you to get past multiple long-term affairs. When you asked for help, instead of helping you and respecting you, she manipulated you. When you played the D card, she changed her manipulation tactics. People as base as she is do not change. Spend the rest of your life with someone you deserve. 

[mark clemson]

@TooLateNow if I seem wise, it's probably mostly because I'm good at absorbing what other folks around here say, but thank you, I'll certainly take the compliment.

I don't know if there's a way. Certainly not an easy way. If she pulls back a bit now it will probably only trigger (very reasonable) mistrust in you. And asking her to consciously "be a bit more distant" or similar probably won't work, because (a) it's a pretty crazy request to make of a partner and (b) your brain probably won't be fooled because you'll know she's faking it.

So I don't see an easy way, unfortunately.   If anything comes to mind, I'll certainly post.

One aspect of this dynamic. Your wife may have a bit of insecure attachment (as do you, I believe - it's part of what drives the "neediness"). So if she is sensing distance from you that may in part being driving her quest for your attention - she is now the needy one for you. I could be wrong about that. As others have pointed out it might be manipulation or similar.

They say around here that after infidelity you create a new marriage. At the moment, this is the new marriage you've created. Things will probably shift naturally over time, although it's impossible to know in what way in advance.

[DKT3]

They are codependent @mark clemson. That is very common with couples that get started so young.

This codependency is why his wife had the sudden turn around after she feared she may actually lose him. Its also the reason she acted as she did all those years. 

I believe the resentment is firmly rooted in the fact that you now know your wife was capable of being this version of herself and cheated you of this person. 

I fear that your resentment will grow, and your screen name will hold a different meaning although. 

 

[TooLateNow]

A lot to think about. 

I think that there has definitely been a shift of "neediness" and she is definitely desperately trying to show me that she really loves me and is worth keeping.  And I want to feel that way again but am struggling.

I definitely have some resentment and I have definitely lost respect for her. I also have a fair amount of pain.

I think we need to find a way to be more "normal" and less extreme with each so we can be on equal footing. I do not want to do an "I chase you now you chase me" and back and forth game. I want that type of crazy cycle to stop before it gets going too far if it has not already done so. I do not want to be a doormat.  But I also do not want to be a tyrant or jailer or private investigator or Mr. High and Mighty.  Not only is that not productive it is just not who I am or ever want to be.

I also need to deal with the resentment in a healthy way to get rid of it before it gets worse and turns into bitterness. I did do this earlier in my life in dealing with resentment and bitterness from the physical abuse I suffered as a child from my parents. One problem this time is that my wife was a big help in me dealing with that in the past but I do not think she can help me here when she is the source of m resentment.  I do think getting rid of it before was mostly a spiritual battle within me with some help from a few people. I think I can do it again, but we shall see.

I would like to clarify that this is what I want to happen.  I want us to be happy and equal and enjoy our remaining years together. I want to be crazy in love with her and have her be crazy in love with me. We did start out that way, at least I thought we did, but maybe I was wrong way back then. Anyway, that is what I want now.  I thought we were there, but my feelings are getting in the way now. I do not know why they changed, but there were some good theories on here so far. In some respects I do not care why they changed, I just want them to change back, but I guess I cannot fix a problem whose source I cannot understand.

The only thing I know for sure for now and the foreseeable future at least is that I am not leaving unless there are further affairs. Since I have resolved to stick this out I want us to both be as happy as possible with each other. At this point my feelings are interfering. I need to find a way to fix this if I can. I think finding a good marriage counselor might help, but I think I need to focus on these issues in IC so I can fix myself (I hope), which is probably a necessary first step.

It is just a shame that things cannot stay just how you want them to stay when you get there.

[2BGoodAgain]

17 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Yes, you're "falling out of love". But what does that mean? Here are some guesses for you:

I think part of this is simple resentment that has built up + resentment over the affairs themselves. Completely understandable, in fact it's a testament to how much you loved her that you took her back at all. Some might see that as a "mistake" and there's some logic to that view, but ultimately it's up to the BS.

I think part of this is that you don't fully trust her anymore. How could you fully trust her after all that? And it's hard to "love" if you can't trust.

Third part, IMO. I think this is why (some) folks need a partner with a "challenge level". It's counterintuitive, but part of "love" for many people is in part chasing and "winning" their partner. Her distance created a certain amount of emotional neediness in you. As bad as that sounds, that "neediness" drove you to need her. Now that you have her completely, the game is "won" and she loses some value. Furthermore, healthy or not, that neediness, longing for her that was created by her distance is a part of valuing her that you got quite accustomed to and I think, for you (as it is for many people), was part of "love". 

For better or worse, "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen" is a real phenomenon. She's no longer treating you so mean. And you're no longer quite as keen.

good assessment.

the part of this i always found daunting is... how to keep up the illusion/love/feeling.... 

ignorance is bliss, is a very true statement... sometimes, not knowing = happiness.

but once you know it... you can't unknow it... Tree of Knowledge/apple/adam&eve, etc... concept.

 

[Fletch Lives]

Counseling can sometimes help. But I don't see what counseling will do at this point. You have already been through all that several times. 

She is a reformed cheater and doing all the right things. What more could you ask for? At this point, if anything will rebuild trust and love in your heart, that will. While counselors know a thousand times what the average joe knows about relationships, ironically, many of them don't know too much about love.

Some people can get over poor treatment and cheating from their SO, some cannot. You might be one of the ones who can't. Or you might be one of the one's who can. 

I have to warn you though - if your love level has dropped below the point of no return, it won't come back for this woman, ever. It sounds like it may have, you'll just have to see.

The good news is, if you can't love her anymore, you get to be the one to serve the divorce papers. Usually it's the woman. He who files first feels better about the whole deal when they get to make their own decision. 

Even if you can get over it, it might take a year or more. All you can do is wait and see. It's a matter of time. In time, you'll make your decision, naturally. I wish you the best.

[DKT3]

Doing the "right thing" now doesn't erase cheating and then treating him poorly for decades. This is why he is posting,  he wants to figure out how to get through all his negative feelings for what she was, since she is now being what he has always wanted.

 

[mark clemson]

@DKT3 I'm sure you're right about there being some level of codependence at play here as well (as happens in most very LTRs).

@TooLateNow

10 hours ago, TooLateNow said:

I would like to clarify that this is what I want to happen.  I want us to be happy and equal and enjoy our remaining years together. I want to be crazy in love with her and have her be crazy in love with me. We did start out that way...

This makes sense as a goal, but the bolded may not be particularly realistic. "Crazy in love" tends to be associated with NRE - new relationship energy. Emphasis on new. After that fades, most couples tend towards a more "familial" love which can be great, but probably wouldn't be described as "crazy in love" by most people.

Some couples apparently don't lose that NRE "vibe" (although I believe this is fairly rare) and I'm certainly not suggesting you don't shoot for as much happiness as you would like. But it may make sense to take the above into account when assessing "results" and the quality of "love" you feel.

 

10 hours ago, TooLateNow said:

The only thing I know for sure for now and the foreseeable future at least is that I am not leaving unless there are further affairs.

But I also do not want to be a ... private investigator .

That is certainly decent and very loving of you. But, let's not kid ourselves - your wife had multiple affairs. The prospect of losing you may have made her lose all interest in affairs for now. But there is no way to know how long that might last. You don't have to turn into PI, but you'd be a bit crazy IMO not to at least be genuinely keeping an eye on her.

[DKT3]

Codependency happens in long relationships. It's much worse when you get together at such an early age.  My wife and I started at 17, we never matured and grew as individuals but we did as a unit. Since op and his wife started at a similar age I'm sure they are the same. Anyone not having done that may not realize just how codependent these relationships become. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by DKT3

[TooLateNow]

10 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Doing the "right thing" now doesn't erase cheating and then treating him poorly for decades. This is why he is posting,  he wants to figure out how to get through all his negative feelings for what she was, since she is now being what he has always wanted.

 

Exactly! That helped me understand myself a little better. That is why I am here: to learn as much as I can from people who have been here as I have been.

Edited March 7, 2020 by TooLateNow
typo