Single ExOM in EA - on breaking NC

[Difficultstuff]

Hi all

Spent a lot of time in past few days reading here, has helped.

I'm struggling with NC. It's been six months. Never a full PA, and she is engaged and living together rather than married. No kids on either side.

We met doing a leisure activity we're both into in 2018. I'm 42, she's 29. I'm single with a couple of serious and non-serious relationships behind me but nothing longer than 3 years. (I have issues with commitment going back to a very abusive childhood which I have worked hard on in therapy for a long time and am trying to move beyond.)

As for everyone here it was just amazing with her. Not just the highs but also the sense of connection, companionship and togetherness. It was just like how I imagined dating someone would be if things were really good and felt right: it felt right. Contentment.

It was as if we were dating for a few months this time last year. But despite the happiness, it didn't sit that well with me because of her fiance, though I still let it happen. Went away last summer with her for a week with others on the basis of this leisure activity. Lots of people around and we basically behaved daily like a couple. Spent one night cuddling and hugging each other, nothing more, but a very happy night for me.

Saw her a couple of weeks after, told her we couldn't carry on like this. For me it was guilt regarding her SO plus jealousy plus a sense of wanting commitment from her. Plus her guilt which we talked about. I told her I loved her, she said she loved me. No doubt in my mind that she did but it was a very tough night, although very gentle. Told her to be in touch if things changed. Next day texted her I wouldn't be in touch unless she was. That was six months ago now and I'm still devastated despite moving on with life.

She never did future faking or made any promises etc. I'm relieved about that and know I've got off easy. But I'm struggling with the idea I should have been better, should have been less selfish, should have stayed around for her etc.

Saw her and fiance at few weeks ago socially. (Luckily we're not geograhically close but have some mutual friends.) We blanked each other - I tried to just do what I'd have done anyway, talking to others, but I felt like a monster pretending to be OK. I also assume by now she's confessed to him and is dealing with all that. Feel very remorseful and worried about her.

But I also feel every day like I did the wrong thing by cutting and running too soon. I feel that I should have found a way to be there for her even if she hadn't  (yet) chosen me - because she loved me.

I've read so many posts here and understand the trajectory of all this and how it's similar for others. Again, I also know my experience doesn't compare to those who were promised things that didn't happen. But I'm in a hole and will gladly read anything anyone has to say.

Thanks.

[Allupinnit]

If you have commitment issues, it's easy to see why you'd get hung up on someone unavailable herself.  

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Difficultstuff said:

I'm struggling with the idea I should have been better, should have been less selfish, should have stayed around for her etc. But I also feel every day like I did the wrong thing by cutting and running too soon. 

I don’t see this as being selfish. I see this as being smart and doing the right thing.

To me, the selfish thing was the fact that this woman engaged in a relationship with you when she knew, she was otherwise committed and could not progress the relationship with you. 

Her behavior is selfish, not necessarily yours (as it relates to the end of this relationship). The fact that you formed an intimate relationship with an unavailable woman is another discussion entirely... 

Best wishes. 

[notmyfinestmoment]

Hi Difficultstuff..

Whether it is an EA or a PA (or both), the feelings can be really strong either way.    And yes, the connection like no other is something we can all identify with.  

Without a doubt, you did the right thing by backing away when you did.  You exited gracefully, telling her you loved her and told her if anything changes, to contact you.  And while you are second guessing whether or not you ran too soon, the majority of us on here who have crossed over into PA's or have been involved for long periods of time are wishing we would have been smart enough to did what you did.  I still second guess my ending as well (and that was after almost a year and a half together)  Was I patient enough?  Did I give him enough time?   But I have to keep circling back to the fact that if he wanted to follow through with a future for us, he would have done so in the three times he attempted to have the discussion with his wife.  Maybe you can look at it that way?  If she wants to do something about it, she will.  Six months of NC for you is pretty amazing, but also scares the heck out of me because my heart is in my throat after just a month.   I worry about her future outlook for she and her fiancee.   If she has strong feelings for someone else other than her fiancee before she is even married, that may be indicative of a bigger issue with her relationship.   Unfortunately, a lot of people still follow through with the wedding because of all that has been invested and the worry of letting people down.   It's not until after the wedding that they (some, not all), realize the gravity of marrying the wrong person.

For your situation, I wouldn't assume that she has confessed anything.   I have to think if she did, he may have had a pretty strong reaction to you.  I am usually in the mindset that you should say how you feel in the non-A world... "I miss you", "I love you", etc.     But with this situation, it is different.    I ended mine the same way you did (although mine had a little more finality to it by me telling him I was getting off the roller coaster for good) by saying I love you.  His last words to me were "I love you more than anything".   I miss him and love him, but what would be the point in telling him that?  His situation hasn't changed.    Her situation hasn't changed either...she is still engaged.   

It is always hard to end things when you are at the height of your feelings.   And I think that is why letting go is so hard with Affairs.   But at the end of the day, being with someone who is with someone else is a really unhealthy situation.   I think we also struggle with "am I ever going to feel like this about someone again?".   After all, it is like we have gone our whole lives not even realizing this connection exists.   And now we know it does.   Do we ever get past that?  God I hope so.     In the meantime, they say if you love someone let them go, so know you did the right thing for now, especially for you and your heart.   Watching her relationship from the sidelines would have only grown more difficult.   

Keep positng, we'll get you through it! 

 

[preraph]

You've no reason to feel guilty. She is who had the decision, and she chose him and didn't take any chances on jeopardizing that when she ran into you. I doubt she even told him. It sounds more an emotional affair than physical one. So she always chose him. 

 

I think you are trying to find a reason to justify contacting her again. Don't disrupt her life. 

 

I know it hurts, but if it had been as right to her in the same way it was to you, she would have chosen you.

Stay active and social and stay NC, and you'll move on and be okay.

[Difficultstuff]

25 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Her behavior is selfish, not necessarily yours (as it relates to the end of this relationship). The fact that you formed an intimate relationship with an unavailable woman is another discussion entirely... 

Best wishes. 

Thank you BaileyB - it's the last sentence in particular that means a lot. Being positive, it seems to me that we probably both formed a relationship precisely because it wasn't realisable. It gave us both space to explore alternatives to our daily existence. I don't mean to suggest that was wise, but maybe that's a more healthy takeaway, that allows for a healthier future, than the blame-and-shame game.

[Difficultstuff]

25 minutes ago, preraph said:

You've no reason to feel guilty. She is who had the decision, and she chose him and didn't take any chances on jeopardizing that when she ran into you. I doubt she even told him. It sounds more an emotional affair than physical one. So she always chose him. 

 

I think you are trying to find a reason to justify contacting her again. Don't disrupt her life. 

 

I know it hurts, but if it had been as right to her in the same way it was to you, she would have chosen you.

Stay active and social and stay NC, and you'll move on and be okay.

Thank you. No, I won't contact her or disrupt her life. It's hard because I felt like she had made her choice but still wanted me in the picture. So she forced my hand so that I had to say goodbye when I didn't want to. I'm very sure she told him, she was eaten up by guilt when we last spoke - and she's fundamentally decent. And one of my issues is that, without saying it directly, I felt she should tell him, because I wouldn't like it if roles were reversed. Yes, am moving on!

 

[preraph]

I know it's not easy. Honestly she's probably relieved to not have that push and pull in her life. Especially if she is essentially a decent person as you believe. Pat yourself on the back for making it easy for her to do the right thing.

[Difficultstuff]

44 minutes ago, notmyfinestmoment said:

Hi Difficultstuff..

Whether it is an EA or a PA (or both), the feelings can be really strong either way.    And yes, the connection like no other is something we can all identify with.  

Without a doubt, you did the right thing by backing away when you did.  You exited gracefully, telling her you loved her and told her if anything changes, to contact you.  And while you are second guessing whether or not you ran too soon, the majority of us on here who have crossed over into PA's or have been involved for long periods of time are wishing we would have been smart enough to did what you did.  I still second guess my ending as well (and that was after almost a year and a half together)  Was I patient enough?  Did I give him enough time?   But I have to keep circling back to the fact that if he wanted to follow through with a future for us, he would have done so in the three times he attempted to have the discussion with his wife.  Maybe you can look at it that way?  If she wants to do something about it, she will.  Six months of NC for you is pretty amazing, but also scares the heck out of me because my heart is in my throat after just a month.   I worry about her future outlook for she and her fiancee.   If she has strong feelings for someone else other than her fiancee before she is even married, that may be indicative of a bigger issue with her relationship.   Unfortunately, a lot of people still follow through with the wedding because of all that has been invested and the worry of letting people down.   It's not until after the wedding that they (some, not all), realize the gravity of marrying the wrong person.

For your situation, I wouldn't assume that she has confessed anything.   I have to think if she did, he may have had a pretty strong reaction to you.  I am usually in the mindset that you should say how you feel in the non-A world... "I miss you", "I love you", etc.     But with this situation, it is different.    I ended mine the same way you did (although mine had a little more finality to it by me telling him I was getting off the roller coaster for good) by saying I love you.  His last words to me were "I love you more than anything".   I miss him and love him, but what would be the point in telling him that?  His situation hasn't changed.    Her situation hasn't changed either...she is still engaged.   

It is always hard to end things when you are at the height of your feelings.   And I think that is why letting go is so hard with Affairs.   But at the end of the day, being with someone who is with someone else is a really unhealthy situation.   I think we also struggle with "am I ever going to feel like this about someone again?".   After all, it is like we have gone our whole lives not even realizing this connection exists.   And now we know it does.   Do we ever get past that?  God I hope so.     In the meantime, they say if you love someone let them go, so know you did the right thing for now, especially for you and your heart.   Watching her relationship from the sidelines would have only grown more difficult.   

Keep positng, we'll get you through it! 

 

Thank you. For me it was initially 'I've not felt like this for someone for 15 years!' and then it was, 'Oh. I've actually never felt this for anyone before at all - this is what people talk about when they say they love someone!' Makes me feel late to the party in my 40!

Sorry about your situation. Does it help that he said what he said? Well done for exiting the rollercoaster! 

Way before I consciously realised (because she kinda pursued me initially) that I cared about her, I honestly had very neutral, unspoken doubts about her engagement and its foundations. I've felt this before a few times with friends of both sexes, been right maybe 75% of the time - various separations, divorces in the mid-30s.

Good luck with your own NC. My sense is that as a strategy it differs tremendously for everyone, and that the one-size-fits-all is a bit crude - but also that the overall shape of it, in terms of moving forward, is pretty sound.

 

 

 

[Difficultstuff]

1 hour ago, Allupinnit said:

If you have commitment issues, it's easy to see why you'd get hung up on someone unavailable herself.  

I mean - yes, obviously, it is. Not much else to say to that.

[elaine567]

22 minutes ago, Difficultstuff said:

I'm very sure she told him, she was eaten up by guilt when we last spoke - and she's fundamentally decent.

I doubt she told him as that would not have been in her best interests.
Once free from you and once back on a "righteous" track then I guess  she was not going to then screw up her relationship, demolish trust and ruin her reputation.
Men tend to react pretty badly to a cheating woman.
Once the pressing acute guilt subsided and without any continuing eternal pressure, she would have weighed up her options and I guess decided to  stay silent.
Why rock the boat for an EA that went and is going nowhere?
The thing about people who cheat is that they tend to be pretty good at looking out for number one. 

[BTDT2012]

You did the right thing by backing away.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Difficultstuff said:

It's hard because I felt like she had made her choice but still wanted me in the picture.

I’m sure she did. As the saying goes around here, she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. 

There is nothing particularly respectable about that - particularly because you were developing feelings and it sounds like you would have wanted more. She chose her husband, it’s not fair of her to string you along... It’s neither the kind or loving thing - if she loved you, she would have wanted what was best for YOU. In other worlds, SHE would have ended it with you. Just saying...

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

I doubt she told him as that would not have been in her best interests.
Once free from you and once back on a "righteous" track then I guess  she was not going to then screw up her relationship, demolish trust and ruin her reputation.
Men tend to react pretty badly to a cheating woman.
Once the pressing acute guilt subsided and without any continuing eternal pressure, she would have weighed up her options and I guess decided to stay silent.
The thing about people who cheat is that they tend to be pretty good at looking out for number one. 

Agree. She also wants OP to believe that she is an, in his words, “decent person.”

Edited February 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

4 hours ago, notmyfinestmoment said:

Hi Difficultstuff..

... while you are second guessing whether or not you ran too soon, the majority of us on here who have crossed over into PA's or have been involved for long periods of time are wishing we would have been smart enough to did what you did.

Not my situation, but FWIW OP I very much believe it's true...

 

3 hours ago, Difficultstuff said:

Yes, am moving on!

Wisdom IMO. Don't waste more of your years on things that won't be successful.

 

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Agree. She also wants OP to believe that she is an, in his words, “decent person.”

Decency... so relative, he thought, contemplating burkas and child marriages.

 

[Difficultstuff]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I doubt she told him as that would not have been in her best interests.
Once free from you and once back on a "righteous" track then I guess  she was not going to then screw up her relationship, demolish trust and ruin her reputation.
Men tend to react pretty badly to a cheating woman.
Once the pressing acute guilt subsided and without any continuing eternal pressure, she would have weighed up her options and I guess decided to  stay silent.
Why rock the boat for an EA that went and is going nowhere?
The thing about people who cheat is that they tend to be pretty good at looking out for number one. 

It's interesting there's a consensus she probably didn't tell him. It's speculation but I'd be surprised if she hadn't - she told me last time I saw her that she'd 'tried' to. We never spoke much about him (consciously on my part.) I never told her to confess, just that, if she was in love with me but wasn't leaving him there was no way forward for us. Part of my own pain in the part few months has been the shame that I did pursue her, but also the worry at the hell she's probably been going through. I guess this doesn't matter anymore. She's still in my head a lot, hence my posting here.

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, Difficultstuff said:

It's interesting there's a consensus she probably didn't tell him. It's speculation but I'd be surprised if she hadn't - she told me last time I saw her that she'd 'tried' to.

She “tried” to is a far cry from “she was honest and told her husband everything.” 

It’s interesting to me that you would believe anything she says - when you more than anyone know for a fact that she is capable of lying the very person she is supposed to love and respect more than anyone.

[mark clemson]

She has no husband though (although she may one day). She's perma-engaged if I understand correctly. (Same difference though in a way, it's true.)

IF she's taken that as a slight, if in her mind he doesn't love her "in full", I suppose she's paid him back and then some now.

 

[Difficultstuff]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

She “tried” to is a far cry from “she was honest and told her husband everything.” 

It’s interesting to me that you would believe anything she says - when you more than anyone know for a fact that she is capable of lying the very person she is supposed to love and respect more than anyone.

No direct lies to her fiance. He knew when we'd meet up - once every two or three weeks, and then a couple of times a week doing this group hobby. Lies by omission, though as I said, it wasn't a PA. At some point I had a clear idea that she'd fallen for me, but didn't back away or directly ask her, which is on me. I didn't know how strongly she'd fallen, and how ashamed it made her until I asked her shortly before we parted ways. So she kept that from me to avoid having to face the situation. A lot of things weren't discussed because we just had so much fun and laughter together - I'd really like to have that again with someone but be able to be open about it. 

[Difficultstuff]

22 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

She has no husband though (although she may one day). She's perma-engaged if I understand correctly. (Same difference though in a way, it's true.)

IF she's taken that as a slight, if in her mind he doesn't love her "in full", I suppose she's paid him back and then some now.

 

Yes, mostly. 10 years with him, 4 engaged. Don't think it's a slight to her that they didn't marry yet. 

Strong sense I was an escape from unfulfilling comfortable relationship - but one in which she's so embedded (friends, family, mortgage etc) that leaving it was unlikely. Clearly some issues there. The couple of times I saw them together they looked happy, vibed off each other well. (I didn't enjoy that much!)

As I've seen in this forum MM/MW can live in what someone called 'parallel universes.' I was naive not to understand that before. But again, she never promised me anything for a moment.

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, Difficultstuff said:

As I've seen in this forum MM/MW can live in what someone called 'parallel universes.' I was naive not to understand that before. But again, she never promised me anything for a moment.

Like a lot of people who get involved in an affair you thought you were in singles dating.
In singles dating you regularly swap out partners for better options.
You have a gf/bf, you meet someone else more interesting you dump the gf/bf and carry on with the new person.
You assumed with all this "love" being bandied about  with this woman, she would automatically dump the bf, but she didn't.
She kept the two of you going as that is how it works in affairs.
Few are actually looking for a new partner, and that is what gets many OM/OW confused.
If he/she wants me, loves me, why is he/she sticking like glue to their "old" love....
It is because the "old" love is not "old" it is current.
There are usually too many "complications" involved to just up and leave so they stay and cheat instead.

[Difficultstuff]

38 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Like a lot of people who get involved in an affair you thought you were in singles dating.
In singles dating you regularly swap out partners for better options.
You have a gf/bf, you meet someone else more interesting you dump the gf/bf and carry on with the new person.
You assumed with all this "love" being bandied about  with this woman, she would automatically dump the bf, but she didn't.
She kept the two of you going as that is how it works in affairs.
Few are actually looking for a new partner, and that is what gets many OM/OW confused.
If he/she wants me, loves me, why is he/she sticking like glue to their "old" love....
It is because the "old" love is not "old" it is current.
There are usually too many "complications" involved to just up and leave so they stay and cheat instead.

Thank you Elaine. There's truth in that - I did compare it to other dating experiences. The 'dates' we had were so good I couldn't believe it. Like some other posters here I did hold back at first, didn't want to pursue her, but ended up feeling pursued a lot of the time, which I then responded to or took to mean something it didn't. Never assumed she'd dump the boyfriend though. Just selfishly ignored his existence till it couldn't be ignored.

I've very much been thinking about how for her I provided romance, adventure etc without commitment, while for me she initially provided the sense of being wanted and emotional support but also without commitment - until finally I did want some, more than she could give. In fact we didn't say 'I love you' till the last time we spoke.

Maybe things are settling down a bit now but it does all still hurt, and I still ruminate on my mistakes when alone. Though am getting to a space that for the first 3 or 4 months of NC wasn't viable in which I have finally stopped hoping to hear from her. But the self-forgiveness is tough.

[Difficultstuff]

It's a couple of days since I posted this. Don't know if anyone's still reading, but I appreciated the responses. That said, I'm still struggling in the sense that I feel I should have acted differently. Like - if I'd managed to arrange things so we had become physical (by booking a hotel one night), then maybe that would have been enough to persuade her to be with me. Or to make her fiance leave her if he'd found out. (I get the fantasy and the sort of male entitlement that goes with that thought.)

Or just that, even without that happening, that I should have stayed around, been a 'friend' and somehow been able to sustain that position whether she left him or not. I feel I've destroyed something so very precious and real.

I know from experience and reading here that the happy endings don't usually happen. I understand the concepts - affair fog, limerence etc. But I guess that I'm dealing still with the intense sense of the loss of something very lovely. I also know that that relates to me and my behaviors and willingness or need to engage with someone committed to someone else. I really have worked on all this alone and in IC for a long time now. But I simply don't have a sense I've done the right thing - quite the opposite. 

I see all the stories and patterns. I really do. I am trying to move on, acknowledge my own selfishness and my own issues here. But I've this instinctive residual loyalty to her and the experience that doesn't really fade. Again, any thoughts are welcome.

[notmyfinestmoment]

We are still here....    I know how much you are struggling.  It is horrible when you are unsettled with your feelings.   For what it is worth,  I really do think that you handled it the right way when you let her go in a loving way.  BUT, if you really can't get past the idea that you should have said more, you can contact her and say what you want to say.  Ideally, you would want to know if she feels the same way and would like a future with you or you find out she doesn't and you can move on knowing you left no stone unturned.  The very dangerous part in having that conversation is that you don't get a definitive answer and the affair starts back up again.  That is what you don't want.   I do understand where you are coming from though.  So I guess you really need to think about what you would want to accomplish by telling her how you feel.  Are you hoping that it will change her mind in moving forward with her marriage?  Are you prepared if she responds differently (or not at all)?   Just think it all the way through.  

You are in a more unique position than most, since she isn't married yet.   There are a lot of people on here with "what if's".  And that is why a lot of affairs reignite because we think "if only I had done this".   So people go back hoping something will be different the 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th or 10th) time around.   In a normal relationship, when it ends, if you feel like you have made a mistake, you can pick up the phone or go to their house to talk it over.  In an A scenario with a married AP, that isn't possible.  

 

[elaine567]

37 minutes ago, notmyfinestmoment said:

You are in a more unique position than most, since she isn't married yet

Yes she is only engaged but be careful, we have had posters here who have followed the object of their affection, through the engagement, the wedding, the married life, the babies.. all incredibly difficult to stomach and live through but all to no avail in the long run.
One male poster was seeing this girl who had a long term fiance, he was with her for years as her OM.
At times they were almost living together as the fiance sometimes worked away from home.
It was all so very serious and she would leave given the right time...
One day she announces she has left the fiance, to great joy from our poster, BUT she immediately went dark on him, turns out she dumped both of them, the fiance and the OM at the same time.
  
I always think that anyone who ends up with two lovers, does so because they need two people to fulfil their needs. The two are both needed as one fills in the gaps of the other. 
Neither is "enough" on their own for the cheating person, and that is why they rarely move on to the OW/OM.
Instead they usually find someone else who does tick all or most of their boxes.

Edited February 16, 2020 by elaine567