MM says he's leaving his wife... stories/advice/comments?

[whichwayisup]

Its just U:lmao:

QUOTE]

 

 

How do U know he is happy?if M is over in his head ,the W (to mine anyway)was a person he shouldnt have even dated much less M & have a C with?

Maybe OW loves/loved him ,treated him wonderful,showed him that a loving relationship can be good,showed him what he is missing?

 

My point = Then why stay? If he is unhappy at home, why not just end it? But, MM won't. Because it's easier to stay, live life as it is at home and have an OW on the side. It's just selfish!

 

Obviously the MM has had a good relationship at some point with his wife. Why else get married and have kids?

 

Yeah, maybe some MM do have a miserable home life, but MANY have it pretty good. That is, until the A is found out. Then all as he knows it comes crumbling down. Remember ConfusedMM? There is an example.

[Sami_D]

...

 

I have a feeling this one isn't going to come down off his fence anytime soon, and until you give him a very clear choice - he isn't going to make any choice at all.

 

Men do leave unhappy marriages. What men do not leave are tolerable ones. You'll need to know if his marriage is truly as bad as he has led you to believe or if it has been tolerable enough to stay (its been tolerable enough for him to turn down a guarantee for happiness and love with you repeatedly over the past year and a half). If it is tolerable , he won't leave. Ever. If it is truly an unhappy marriage and is intolerable he will leave.

 

Reading this for the second time, I have a feeling you're right about the indecision he is feeling - not coming down off the fence anytime soon? Could be...

 

"Intolerable"? I am the one making it tolerable. He has said that to me before now.

 

One more thing. I've sent him the url to this thread (I sent him the url to Lynne's thread on NC last weekend, because I wanted him to know about my pain and my fears). So any message you could send to him, be sure that he will read it. Because he really does care about this relationship.

 

I'll read again and respond to the more recent messages tomorrow. It's late here now, and I want to read them again before I respond. Thank you SO much to everyone posting on this thread. It really is helping.

[RecordProducer]

It seems that he is closely connected to his children and reluctant to leave them. Even if he would follow his desire for romance and eventually leave them, he would never be fully happy and enjoy your love. He would always see you as the woman who separated him from his kids regardless of the fact that it would be his decision. The more you pressure him the more he will resent you for being selfish and pulling things on your side.

 

Your love won't make it up for him. He knows this and that's why is unwilling to pack his bags. Seeing them every day vs. every other weekend is quite different. It's not about how much he loves you, it's about him loving his children much more. Many people leave their children, but many people can't do it and thus stay in bad marriages. He is obviously one of the latter. I also could never leave my children for any man in the world.

 

If you browse the threads on LS, you will see that many MM manipulate their OW (even unintentionally) for years until the OW realize that they will never leave. They make promises, prolong the deadlines, ask for more time, think of excuses and a myriad of tricks to keep the OW, leave then go back to their wives multiple times (it seems that they just take breaks from their marriages, emotionally blackmail their wives, and give false hopes to their OW). Their wives are usually clingy and don't let go, the MM feel confused, and the OW suffer.

 

At the end even if they leave, things don't seem as great as previously imagined to be. Wives bug them and children dislike the new woman so he feels torn between two fires. The OW (now his new wife) spends most of her time feeling rejected and angry and she feels that he pays "too much" attention to his children. He feels guilty for leaving them and is trying to make it up for them while the new wife is frustrated by the fact that he sets his children as top priority. She gets pregnant and problems become even worse. He is not there for her and spends a lot of time on the phone with his ex-wife talking about their children.

 

All in all, it's a lose-lose situation for all parties. You're lucky if he doesn't leave his wife. Soon enough you'd be asking yourself "Why did I need all this hassle in my life?"

[whichwayisup]

Great post RP! I agree with you 100%. Especially this...

It's not about how much he loves you, it's about him loving his children much more. Many people leave their children, but many people can't do it and thus stay in bad marriages.

 

People make sacrifices for their children. Everyday all over the World. Many men and women give up their previous lifestyle when they have kids. It's just part of the process and to have kids, you gotta give up something. So, if at the end of the day, he chooses his children over you - Remember, it's not about you, it's about his kids and his love for them. I certainly would not ever put myself in a situation where a man has to choose between his children and me. Chances are, I would lose. And if I won, I don't think I could deal with what he gave up to be with me. But that's just my take on it. There are many ways of how it could/couldn't go.

[LucreziaBorgia]

"Intolerable"? I am the one making it tolerable. He has said that to me before now.

 

If you are making his marriage tolerable, and you continue to agree to be the OW then he will never leave. Why would he?

 

There's no way of telling an outcome right now. Hopefully you can convince him to join up here and post his side of the story. Its too bad we can't hear his wife's side! That truly would be interesting.

[RecordProducer]

Great post RP!

Thanks!

People make sacrifices for their children. Everyday all over the World. Many men and women give up their previous lifestyle when they have kids. It's just part of the process and to have kids, you gotta give up something. So, if at the end of the day, he chooses his children over you - Remember, it's not about you, it's about his kids and his love for them.

Right. And this time he might give up his affair for the sake of his children. It's very ard to look into your angels' eyes and say "I am leaving you, because I want to be with Sami." Especially since he can have you (or some other woman) anyway.

 

MM tend to be less romantic than single men. They see things from a few different angles. While your whole world revolves around one thing (emotionally) - him, his affection is divided amongst his wife, his children, and you. Add the advantages of his current comfortable life and the disadvantages of divorce (financial fiasco, ruined social and family relationships) to the equation and you get the whole picture of how willing he is to leave his family. He sacrifices nothing for you at this moment while you sacrifice your time and emotions. You on the other hand would sacrifice nothing if you would eventually marry him, but he would sacrifice a lot. So which situation do you think suits him best?

 

In any case, as long as you're giving him what he needs, he has it all and will not leave. You need to cut him off and not take him back as soon as he looks for you. If he can't live without you, he will divorce his wife. But you're afarid that he won't. Then think about it, are you really willing to waste your time and hopes on someone who will never be yours?

[newbby]

i do agree with this. if they have children you cant really expect them to leave. they would resent you too. i wouldnt want to be the ow who's mm left for her.

[OldEurope]

Thanks, first of all, to Newbby, for remembering my originial post(thanks for the plug!)--I've just wanted to see where my own experience could/might help...

 

The key point I believe was brought up by LucretiaBorgia when Sami wrote that her MM told her she makes his marriage "tolerable". Big red flag there. Tolerable means doable means liveable. There should be NOTHING about his current state of affairs that should in the least be "tolerable". Viewed in Sami's favor, he should, rather, be in an extreme state of anxiety over her, over losing her, over his life losing its personal direction, losing a happiness that he still might yet impart to his children. Furthermore, at 18 months, the very issues of his children, of his place and purpose in his current marriage should have been examined over, under, backwards and sideways in the magnified glare of his own psychological microscope. It is late to be still waffling.

 

Also, I am a big big big proponent of iron clad NC--but done with a bit of kicking up one's heels, rather than sulking away behind text messages(Oh, I have done that too!). Sami should go stone-cold silent, but in doing so, to get creatively busy or to do things she has been putting off for the sake of "being there". This absolutely does not mean games or tricks; ie, dating others--not yet, not at this time--trying to make him jealous, which will come flying back in her face.

 

The most dignified thing to do would be to say, "I see that your situation with your children is simply too strong to make a decision at this time. Should you be, however, certain of a future with me--and only when you are certain--I will love to see you again". Something of this variety. It shows a) total character--i.e. thinking of his children first, recognizing his pain, taking a step aside for love and out of true love b) it doesn't SLAM the door in his face but closes it, not all the way, gently c) takes a certain pressure off of him, d) reinforces your committment which will ease his insecurities.

 

At the same time, just keep your eyes open. At the end of the day in these matters, your self-protection comes FIRST.

[newbby]

Thanks, first of all, to Newbby, for remembering my originial post(thanks for the plug!)--I've just wanted to see where my own experience could/might help...

 

no probs!

[brubaker2004]

i know that his big "breakdown" made you see how much this relationship with you means to him, but let me tell you that as time goes by and you are still the OW that will mean less and less to you as you feel more and more like just his dirty little secret. you may very well be what he feels like he wants and doesn't have with his W, but if that is the case he needs to end his marriage out of fairness to them BOTH so they can each have a chance at true happiness. as for his C, it is very hard. i am (like a lot of people) from divorced parents, but my parents said after the fact that they were glad they "saved the people rather than the marriage". i guess what i am saying is he will keep you in this position as long as you allow it to be that way, he won't leave his W and C on his own. NC is the only way, difficult as it is.

[Sami_D]

Well, I asked him to read this thread last night, he did, he had next to no sleep, and called me this morning and we talked for quite a few hours. Effectively having the conversation we were meant to have next week (when I was supposed to fly up and see him) today.

 

The upshot is, that, much as most/all of you have said, the sticking point is the children. He believes that in divorcing his wife he would be 'leaving the children', and he's not prepared to do that. Not at this stage at least (not sure if I said before, they are almost 9, and 11 years old). He also said that he can't put a date on when that might change, or even if that might change.

 

I don't know what to do now. Most of you have suggested NC. I can see the benefits (long term) for me in doing that. But I can also believe that it wouldn't make a difference to him divorcing. If things like that would work with him, well... he wouldn't be him and I wouldn't love and respect him so much. He's told me he can't divorce, and I believe that's the case whether I'm in his life or not in his life. I'm running round in circles however, with this. What about continuing to see him? Continuing to thing of 'One Day'? We both think that that one day will come. But it won't be coming soon.

 

What are people's thoughts on the way this has gone, and on our positions and options right now?

 

Once again, thank you all SO much for taking the time to comment. We have both found it really helpful.

[Sami_D]

i am (like a lot of people) from divorced parents, but my parents said after the fact that they were glad they "saved the people rather than the marriage". i guess what i am saying is he will keep you in this position as long as you allow it to be that way, he won't leave his W and C on his own. NC is the only way, difficult as it is.

 

Hello and thanks for your comments. I'm just wondering. Do you think your parents did the right thing by divorcing? Did they 'save the people'? Is that something you've come to believe, after years of reflection? Or did you feel that way early on?

 

I don't want his children to suffer any damage from this situation. From his children's point of view, do you think it would be the best thing for them for him to continue an affair rather than divorce? MM and W don't argue, they just don't have a loving relationship.

[LucreziaBorgia]

What are people's thoughts on the way this has gone, and on our positions and options right now?

 

It went pretty typically, leaving you with stark choices: adapt to your position as OW (and decide whether to be UOW or HOW), or leave the relationship.

 

1. From his children's point of view, do you think it would be the best thing for them for him to continue an affair rather than divorce?

 

2. MM and W don't argue, they just don't have a loving relationship.

 

I'm the product of two philandering spouses - both my father's first wife and second wife cheated on him. He cheated on the second wife, as well in retaliation for her obvious cuckolding - and was obvious about it himself. How did that make me and my brother feel? ASHAMED and hurt to know that my parents were prioritizing a piece of strange over the health of the family. Guilt that we were made to feel that we were obligational and stood directly in the path of "happiness with OW/OM" since the spouses "stayed for the kids". You better bet we were resented passively - both spouses pouting over losing OW/OM because of their "duty". You think only spouses are affected by infidelity? Any kid approaching the age of sexual awareness is too.

 

1. Either divorce outright for the other person, or leave the affair and repair the marriage. Either would have been preferable. Unfortunately, they both chose to continue f*cking around, word got out and I caught all sorts of hell for it by my peers. Once my parents split up, they began seeing other people and that was ok with us - much better than knowing the sleaze going on between them both while they were married. It really soured me on marriage for a long time. A VERY long time.

 

2. If this guy is TRULY concerned for his kids, he will put as much effort into working on fixing that with her as he has spent destroying that with her by his affair(s). Kids don't need a mom and dad who don't love each other - that is as bad a lesson to learn as constant philandering. Kids need to see a solid model between mom and dad, and if that isn't possible divorce will be better in the long run.

 

Where do you fit in this situation? You are a participant in a bad situation - one in which as long as you stay no one in the situation will find any happiness, or even a shot at it.

 

Time to pull out of this - and pull out hard and fast and run away from this smoking ruin and toward finding your own happiness.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I should add that the strong, negative terms I used in my post were not meant to be directed at you, or to offend you in any way - it was merely to give a small look into the 'kid' POV - and trust me, it isn't pretty to look sometimes.

[OldEurope]

....The upshot is, that, much as most/all of you have said, the sticking point is the children. He believes that in divorcing his wife he would be 'leaving the children', and he's not prepared to do that. Not at this stage at least (not sure if I said before, they are almost 9, and 11 years old). He also said that he can't put a date on when that might change, or even if that might change.

 

I don't know what to do now. Most of you have suggested NC. I can see the benefits (long term) for me in doing that. But I can also believe that it wouldn't make a difference to him divorcing. If things like that would work with him, well... he wouldn't be him and I wouldn't love and respect him so much. He's told me he can't divorce, and I believe that's the case whether I'm in his life or not in his life. I'm running round in circles however, with this. What about continuing to see him? Continuing to thing of 'One Day'? We both think that that one day will come. But it won't be coming soon.

 

Sami--You have your answer. He is not going to divorce any time soon. If he does it will be when the children are "mature"--16, 18 years old. You absolutely should NOT sit around and wait--he too might lose respect for you if that is what you decide to do; it will be a dependency that will burden him. I am sorry, but a man moves mountains to be with a woman if he cannot live without her. His children are the priority, you are not. Move on, as they say, to someone else. If it is meant to be, it will happen but ONLY if you proceed to live your life for you--not by waiting for life to happen to you.

 

PS: You might want to read the story of KKat

[Sami_D]

I should add that the strong, negative terms I used in my post were not meant to be directed at you, or to offend you in any way - it was merely to give a small look into the 'kid' POV - and trust me, it isn't pretty to look sometimes.

 

Ah, that's fine, I didn't take it negatively at all.

 

When you were little, you all knew about your parents' affairs. Do you think that makes a difference to how you view the idea of affairs? What if you hadn't known?

 

MM has said his M isn't fixable. He's tried before to fix it (last year). From what he says, she appears to accept the situation as it is. She isn't asking him to be around more, or for intimacy. Their M was broken well before I came on the scene.

 

I don't think that MM would resent his children or wife for 'keeping him from happiness' with me. I don't think he sees it that way at all. As much as his feeling 'obligated' towards them (and I don't think he would see it in that way, although I suppose that's what it is), what's keeping him from getting divorced is that he knows how terribly he would miss being with them, telling his little girl bedtime stories and putting her to bed.

 

Personally, I feel (and have told him) that divorcing would be better for everyone in the long-run (given that there's no option to 'fix' it so his M is the ideal). However, he disagrees with that. And I respect his position on that. I can't change it, and I would feel uncomfortable with continuing to try to change his mind on it.

 

So yeah... I have to end it with him, or continue and 'decide' to be HOW or UOW. Obviously, if I'm getting a choice in my happiness I'll go for the former. How to be a HOW.

[Sami_D]

...a man moves mountains to be with a woman if he cannot live without her. His children are the priority, you are not.

 

I appreciate that fact. I also respect him for making his children his priority. (I just disagree that he's going about it the right way or only way that he can).

 

I'd be worried if he thought he couldn't live without me. I know I can live without him. We would both survive the ending of this relationship. I just don't know whether that's the right thing to do or not. It seems like madness to throw away something that's so good with someone I feel so strongly about. It doesn't seem like the logical thing to do at the moment, because of all the good things that would be lost.

[newbby]

sami d,

i thought that i could have been a how, i could have been happy with being ow, sure. there are other factors though and it also depends on your mm.

i felt that my mm was losing respect for me, by just being there and that is what made me unhappy. he wasnt honest with me about how he felt about losing the marriage, had he been, i think we could have possibly worked through it. he probably thought that if he was honest i would not have stayed.

[OldEurope]

I appreciate that fact. I also respect him for making his children his priority. (I just disagree that he's going about it the right way or only way that he can).

 

I'd be worried if he thought he couldn't live without me. I know I can live without him. We would both survive the ending of this relationship. I just don't know whether that's the right thing to do or not. It seems like madness to throw away something that's so good with someone I feel so strongly about. It doesn't seem like the logical thing to do at the moment, because of all the good things that would be lost.

 

 

The bad things will really start to overwhelm the good ones. That is just what happens.

 

You have to decide for yourself. If you can be a life-long OW, or one for many, many years at quite a risk, that is for you to decide. We here just do not want you to wake up three years from now saying, "That is a good thing?"

 

Again, please look up a thread by KKat who was an OW for 12 years on-off or so and now seems rather despondent about it (I do not want to speak for her). Yet in her posts she speaks of a low self esteem that "cannot let go". You decide.

[brubaker2004]

obviously i am coming from the perspective of being an adult now, and it was difficult when i was 13 and my dad told me that my parents were getting divorced. but i also saw my mom flourish afterwards, she got her master's degree and was independent for the first time in her life. my dad went through some rough times, but he eventually married the woman who he is still with today and we love her very much. she was even a great source of support to us when my mother passed away prematurely at age 52. i am not saying it wasn't bumpy for me when they split, but i also know that it would have been no less so if the tension would have built and there was no affection/love between my "role models" for a marriage. my parents were also great about communication with my sister and i and we all even went to counseling together for a bit to help us get through it. i just think that it isn't any better for a child to grow up and find out that their dad or mom cheated on the spouse but stayed married. that can cause a lot of resentment in and of itself.

[newbby]

brubaker, i completely agree. and i am sure that making the decision to be a long term ow, would carry alot of guilt.

old europe, kkat never made a decision to become a long term ow, so it is a slightly different scenario, she got caught up in it and it wore her down.

as it stands, sami d, has to make a choice to be a long term ow, or not. the trouble is sami, that you also have to be prepared, if he says he will wait until the children are old enough, before he leaves, there might always be another excuse.

really the only decision you can make is to be an ow or not to be, regardless of what may or may not occur in the future.

[OldEurope]

Newby--you pointed out a fundamental difference--about concrete choices to be made versus "going along"-- in the KKat story, and I stand corrected. I just meant that Sami should avoid that kind of "Okay, one more year--just one more" that had left an impression on me in K's story

 

O E

[whichwayisup]

Okay, one more year--just one more

 

Then you'll have another "marie" situation here. There has to be a time when ya say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and get out. The MM isn't going to do anything to change it, so it's up to the OW to put down her foot, get mad and leave! Find someone else who will make your heart sing...A man who is single and available!

[newbby]

this is very true old europe, even if you felt that you could handle being an ow at the moment, it could still wear you down over the long term to the point that you wanted to get out, but, just couldnt.

i suppose then the only decision you can make is whether to commit to this as you would any other relationship, that is commit to it for the long term, but, exactly as it is now. the only way to do this is to be brutally honest with yourself about your real expectations for the relationship, if it turns out that somewhere inside you are hoping he will leave at some point, then you really should make clear your expectations now, and stick to them.

[newbby]

yes wwiu, but marie was in huge amounts of denial