MM says he's leaving his wife... stories/advice/comments?

[newbby]

sami,

rather than trying to analyse him, and work out what is going on with him (you can never get to the bottom of this), what you need is a plan for you.

all he needs to know from you, is that you will not settle for being the ow. that is all he needs to know and that is all you need to make clear.

you do not need to put pressure on him to leave, this is counter productive. you do not need him to make a promise to you for the future, in some ways he is right, how can he gaurantee that and how can you accept that, always wondering if he may back out later?

let him know that he does not have any control over you, that you will not settle for being second best. if he decides to stay, well, you still have your dignity and self respect. alot of what upsets the ow who have been hanging around and waiting or those who do not even state their needs for fear of putting the pressure on, is the loss of self respect and dignity they feel.

ask any ex ow or any long term ow, and they will tell you the same thing, i am sure, that they wished they had been stronger from the outset.

dont make the same mistakes. it is hard yes. but it is the best way forward.

[newbby]

oh and you dont have to be hard about it. you can tell him that you love him, but you cannot accept the position of ow.

[Sami_D]

sami,

rather than trying to analyse him, and work out what is going on with him (you can never get to the bottom of this), what you need is a plan for you.

all he needs to know from you, is that you will not settle for being the ow. that is all he needs to know and that is all you need to make clear.

you do not need to put pressure on him to leave, this is counter productive. you do not need him to make a promise to you for the future, in some ways he is right, how can he gaurantee that and how can you accept that, always wondering if he may back out later?

let him know that he does not have any control over you, that you will not settle for being second best. if he decides to stay, well, you still have your dignity and self respect. alot of what upsets the ow who have been hanging around and waiting or those who do not even state their needs for fear of putting the pressure on, is the loss of self respect and dignity they feel.

ask any ex ow or any long term ow, and they will tell you the same thing, i am sure, that they wished they had been stronger from the outset.

dont make the same mistakes. it is hard yes. but it is the best way forward.

 

He has made his decision, not to get divorced now. I'm not going to ask him to change that. Not for the forseeable future. Not till his children are older.

 

If I tell him I won't accept being the OW, and I'm Ok with no promise for the future... Doesn't that leave me just exactly... nowhere..? Won't I be making the same mistakes as every other OW? In what way do I need to be stronger? I'm not sure what you're saying? (be patient with me!)

[newbby]

well, you have to not be the ow

be friends, be whatever, but dont be the ow

perhaps somebody else could give you better advice on this one, i have never done it, tried being friends far too late, but then, i wasnt sure of my position either. you sound as though you are quite clear about your commitment to him. i certainly wasnt. i am a commitment phobe, i was as stuck in indecision as any mm i have heard of.

[Sami_D]

Thanks for being here, newbby. It really means a lot.

 

I'm not sure how I turn what we have into 'friendship'. I could definitely say I won't meet up with him again unless/until he gets divorced. I would miss being with him, but I could do that. One thing I've always enjoyed is our phonecalls. (not sure if this is any kind of response to what you've said, or gets me anywhere)

 

One thing I can say is that I'm 100% committed to him. At least, the him that I think he is. I'm getting doubts, but I'm wondering if that's not just because I'm posting here, and not able to talk to him.

[newbby]

sami d, thats ok!!

i dont think i can be very helpful on your next questions though.

but wait, do you have pm enabled, i may be able to send you something.

[Sami_D]

sami d, thats ok!!

i dont think i can be very helpful on your next questions though.

but wait, do you have pm enabled, i may be able to send you something.

 

Thanks, newbby I don't think I can get PMs till I have 50 posts, or something..?

[newbby]

keep posting girl.

dont fret too much, it is hard to be clear headed when you think too much.

just be calm, you have as much time as you want to take to think about this.

[magda]

Sami D you have gotten a lot of great advice in here; there are some great posts in here. I agree that I think you should definitely not go on this trip to meet him and you should end this. Better yet, change your ticket and go someplace completely different!

[RecordProducer]

He has made his decision, not to get divorced now. I'm not going to ask him to change that. Not for the forseeable future. Not till his children are older.

I would say NOW he has made a decision NOT TO DIVORCE. He will most likely never divorce his wife. When will the children be ready for a divorce, in 5 years or more? Do you really want to be the OW for many years before you realize that you've wasted your time? Isn't it better to get out now and get over him? It might take you a year, but at least you will have the chance to come out emotionally clean and ready for someone single. Just because he is a good guy and loves you doesn't mean you should waste your precious time for him. Don't you want to get married and have children of your own?

[Sami_D]

I would say NOW he has made a decision NOT TO DIVORCE. He will most likely never divorce his wife. When will the children be ready for a divorce, in 5 years or more? Do you really want to be the OW for many years before you realize that you've wasted your time? Isn't it better to get out now and get over him? It might take you a year, but at least you will have the chance to come out emotionally clean and ready for someone single. Just because he is a good guy and loves you doesn't mean you should waste your precious time for him. Don't you want to get married and have children of your own?

 

I don't think he's made a decision NEVER to divorce. Though you may be right, in that he never will. Then you talk about 5 years. Actually yes, I would wait 5 years for him. The problem is that he can't say, now, that he would divorce in 5 years. So it's all on a 'hunch', and I'm not a gambling person. And there are logical inconsistencies in his 'argument' ~ in fact, his argument is that he knows he's not being logical.

 

I realise that I am being a pain about this. But I can't go NC with doubts like these. However true it might be that he will never divorce... I honestly don't think anyone knows that at this moment (and I know, statistics say otherwise).

 

And in all honesty yes, I would have wanted to get married and have children of my own. If the right man comes along, then I still would (though, at almost 43, that's an outside chance in any case). I don't think I'm putting a block on that if I continue to see MM. I am open to other experiences. But, if it was a sure choice between MM and 'marriage and children', then it's MM every time. Pig-headed though that sounds (I am sure).

[RecordProducer]

You're choosing the line of least resistence. You would patiently wait for him for 5 or 7 or 10 years to divorce his wife. So what if you would wake up some day and realize that you've wasted years of your life and he didn't divorce? The more time you give him the less he is likely to leave his wife. The infatuation naturally wears off after a few years and he will be less motivated to ditch everything in order to be with you.

 

You want to find somoone who will be with you forever. It's not the same to look for Mr. Right at age 42 and 50. As long as you're seeing him (obviously strong feelings are involved), you're not emotionally available for another man.

[Sami_D]

As long as you're seeing him (obviously strong feelings are involved), you're not emotionally available for another man.

 

Emotionally available is the thing. No, I'm not emotionally available right now. You're competely right on that. Actually, I'm not sure I'm going to be laying my emotions out there again, because I really have had a bellyfull of bad experience.

[LucreziaBorgia]

By refusing to go to NC and remaining the OW, you are enabling that situation to continue until the day you decide to end it. He will have no incentive to change, because you are showing him that he doesn't really need to.

 

(these are actual excuses I've seen on OW boards by long term OW)

 

The next excuse will be 'wait til my youngest reaches X age'.

Then it will be 'but I can't miss (insert holiday name here, even the most insignificant ones) with my kids.

Then it will be 'but I can't leave before he/she graduates high school'

Then it will be 'there is no way I can not be a father for them to come home to during every single break from college in which they come home'.

Then it will be 'I can't leave before they graduate from college'

Then it will be 'but I can't leave before their wedding(s).'

Then it will be 'but I need to be there for my grandchildren'.

 

If you are signing on for this OW gig and will not leave his life, realize that you are gambling with large stakes. You'll get to watch the years pass you by and watch MM have these milestones in his life with his family without ever knowing what it is like to experience them for yourself or experience them with your own children.

[RecordProducer]

I'm not sure I'm going to be laying my emotions out there again, because I really have had a bellyfull of bad experience.

Actually you're setting yourself up for some real pain. The longer you stay in this relationship the more it will hurt later. This man should be unselfish enough to let you go and find happiness.

[newbby]

I don't think he's made a decision NEVER to divorce. Though you may be right, in that he never will. Then you talk about 5 years. Actually yes, I would wait 5 years for him. The problem is that he can't say, now, that he would divorce in 5 years. So it's all on a 'hunch', and I'm not a gambling person. And there are logical inconsistencies in his 'argument' ~ in fact, his argument is that he knows he's not being logical.

 

I realise that I am being a pain about this. But I can't go NC with doubts like these. However true it might be that he will never divorce... I honestly don't think anyone knows that at this moment (and I know, statistics say otherwise).

 

And in all honesty yes, I would have wanted to get married and have children of my own. If the right man comes along, then I still would (though, at almost 43, that's an outside chance in any case). I don't think I'm putting a block on that if I continue to see MM. I am open to other experiences. But, if it was a sure choice between MM and 'marriage and children', then it's MM every time. Pig-headed though that sounds (I am sure).

sami d,

the problem is that most dont leave, after they have had some time with the ow being the ow. it may be because they lose respect or as rp says the excitement fades, and then they are left with two relationships devoid of excitement, so are unlikely to give up one for the other.

it could is also be because men can quite easily switch from a loving relationship, to a casual one, and as soon as you say (with your actions) yes i will be the ow, they place you in the casual relationship category. once you are there, you can never get him to see you as a potential serious relationship candidate again, certainly not from that position.

if you choose to become the ow, you will always be the ow in his mind and yes many mm do love their ow, but, is that kind of love enough for you?

you may think you are not putting a block on meeting potentals if you continue to see mm, but, it does wear you down and erode your confidence, so you may end up feeling less attractive to the opposite sex.

think of it another way, what attracts you to a man or rather what makes a man unnattractive to you? even if you felt very much in love with somebody and they said to you, i will continue to be your om provided you leave in 5 years time, would you still have respect for him? imagine those 5 years going on and he is still there waiting for you, and you begin to sense that he is nervous about it, has a few doubts but is still there, hanging on, plus you know that you have committed yourself to leaving for him and being in a serious relationship with him. i know that i would lose respect and wonder how to get myself out of the situation.

it just wouldnt work.

[JayKay]

OP,

 

I think everyone here is giving you some wise and prudent advice.

[Sami_D]

Well, he called this afternoon. I've said I'm going up to see him tomorrow (I doubt any of you will be surprised at that).

 

I fully accept that if I continue to see him, particular things may happen. He may begin to think less of me and see me as weak and a pushover. I may get tired of waiting for him. We may become bored with each other. He may decide that he really likes his W after all and is happy to continue into retirement with her. On the other hand, positive things may happen.

 

Regarding my self-respect and confidence. I have every confidence that I could have endless boyfriends and lovers if I wanted them. I have a lot of male friends who are very interested in me. I'm not interested in any of them. Before I met MM, I was single for almost 3 years, having got out of a relationship I was dissatisfied with. I'm not seeing MM because he's my only option. I'm seeing MM because what we have together is fantastic. And no, that's not because of the 'danger' 'excitement' 'unattainability' factor. It's because of who he is, and who I am.

 

I accept his decision to stay married because he doesn't want to leave his children. He knows I'm not content to always be the OW. He doesn't want to always be having an A. But the idea that the only 'answer' to our situation is to stop seeing each other makes no sense to me. There are points and questions I've raised in my posts here which no one has been able to answer, but rather reiterating that NC is the only way. But I've asked... the only way to what? The only way to miss out developing what we have? The only way for me to manage to find someone/anyone to marry me and give me a baby? Those aren't goals I have.

 

No-one has said 'go NC' for any reasons other than:

 

1) So I can 'move on' (I don't want to do that at this stage. The idea that it will hurt worse to break up in the future is something I can't see. I already love him... maybe if, as you all say, we come to resent and disrespect each other it would actually be easier to end it at that point, rather than now?).

 

2) So he might realise the error he's made in putting his C before me (I don't think he has made an error. I'm glad his C are important to him - and if I disagree with the approach he's taking, I equally know that he would be heartbroken, and our R stand no chance, if he DID get divorced at this stage of his C's lives).

 

3) So I can send him a message that I am not happy being the OW (He knows that).

 

The only thing that would convice me to end it with him at this stage is if I believe that he's lying to me about what he wants (a future with me, where we're together properly, not as MM/OW), or the reasons he's staying now (for the sake of his C, and NOT for any obligation he feels to his wife). My short-term goal is to try to determine this, to the best of my abilities. Any help anyone could offer in that direction would be really welcome.

 

Well, that's it for now. I know you're probably all disappointed in me right now, and I know that if you were in my shoes you just might do something different. But some lessons you have to learn for yourself. I'll let you know how next week goes. And THANK YOU all again, so much, for taking time to help me. I really do appreciate it.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't know that anyone is disappointed. This might sound bad, but the outcome is entirely typical and predictible. It's pretty rare to see an OW take the opportunity to move on of her own accord without having to be brutally dumped for her to want to move on (and even then, they still don't want to move on). I've not seen many OW have the sense of strength and self-preservation to move on, until they had absolutely no choice but to do so when the apocolyptic d-day came, and MM put her on solid 'no contact'.

 

The only thing that would convice me to end it with him at this stage is if I believe that he's lying to me about what he wants (a future with me, where we're together properly, not as MM/OW), or the reasons he's staying now (for the sake of his C, and NOT for any obligation he feels to his wife).

 

It is unfortunate that you don't see that it doesn't matter if he is lying or not. It won't change the fact that he will always be married, and you will always be just the OW. He will continue to tell you what you want to hear, so that you will continue to agree to be his OW - and so that you can justify to yourself why it is you will trade in any future happiness and stability with a family life of your own, for the life of the OW standing on the outskirts of someone else's family.

[whichwayisup]

Regarding my self-respect and confidence. I have every confidence that I could have endless boyfriends and lovers if I wanted them. I have a lot of male friends who are very interested in me. I'm not interested in any of them. Before I met MM, I was single for almost 3 years, having got out of a relationship I was dissatisfied with.

 

I accept his decision to stay married because he doesn't want to leave his children. He knows I'm not content to always be the OW. He doesn't want to always be having an A. But the idea that the only 'answer' to our situation is to stop seeing each other makes no sense to me. There are points and questions I've raised in my posts here which no one has been able to answer, but rather reiterating that NC is the only way. But I've asked... the only way to what? The only way to miss out developing what we have? The only way for me to manage to find someone/anyone to marry me and give me a baby? Those aren't goals I have.

 

Since you're smack in the situation you can't think of anybody else. That is normal. When one is inlove and very into the person infront of them, or crying when its' over, ofcourse ya can't think of being with anybody else! Doesn't matter if the guy is MM or not, your heart doesn't know the difference. But your head does.

 

TRUST ME, once that time comes when you realize he isn't going to leave his family to be with you, you'll feel at peace. Yeah, there'll be pain, alot of it, but the rollercoaster ride of emotions and not knowing wtf is going to happen will be over. You'll know what you're up against, and deal with it. Heal.

 

Noone is disappointed in you, I'm not - All I see is you not ready to realize what is staring at you in the face. That's okay, you can't yet...But I hope a year from now or even 6 months from now you still aren't waiting for him...

 

2) So he might realise the error he's made in putting his C before me (I don't think he has made an error. I'm glad his C are important to him - and if I disagree with the approach he's taking, I equally know that he would be heartbroken, and our R stand no chance, if he DID get divorced at this stage of his C's lives).

 

That won't happen. His priorities are his kids. That will never change. It's part of being a father and being responsible. His kids will always come first. No matter what. I'm sorry, you have to see that! He has told you this too and you're still hoping he'll put you first.

 

3) So I can send him a message that I am not happy being the OW (He knows that).

 

There is no point. Guilting him isn't going to work...Infact, it will push him away. Are you prepared for him to end it? What if he did? Can you handle it?

 

The only thing that would convice me to end it with him at this stage is if I believe that he's lying to me about what he wants (a future with me, where we're together properly, not as MM/OW), or the reasons he's staying now (for the sake of his C, and NOT for any obligation he feels to his wife). My short-term goal is to try to determine this, to the best of my abilities. Any help anyone could offer in that direction would be really welcome.

 

OK, he doesn't and can't know what the future holds. He isn't promising you anything. The future is unpredictable in his life. He can't guarantee you he'll leave at some point...Because he doesn't know. It comes down to HIS comfort level and what he can/can't handle. Obviously he can't handle not being without his children...They are his life.

 

Personally, I think the guy needs to be alone. Completely alone to figure things out. How is anybody supposed to make a choice, what is best for his children and himself when he has his wife and you with him?

 

Hope the talk goes well, hope the best, expect the worst.

[newbby]

hi sami,

nobody can really answer you, whether he is really there for the children or his wife. all anybody can tell you is what is likely to happen if you stay in the position as ow, this, they can tell you from experience or from reading other peoples experiences.

i know what you are saying, that you feel nc at this point would keep you from developing what you have. that can also go either way, it can develop into something much worse than what you have now.

the thing to consider is that he very well may not be lying about a future with you, from how he feels at this point. things change though, and more often than not, they do not change in the ow's favour whilst she remains the ow.

i wish you luck, whatever you do, and i really hope that things work out for you.

nobody is disappointed in you, it is a hard decision to make. keep reading, perhaps somebody else can give you a few pointers for if you remain as the ow.

[RecordProducer]

I know that if you were in my shoes you just might do something different. But some lessons you have to learn for yourself.

Actually all the women who have been in your shoes acted exactly like you. It's hard to leave someone you love unless you know they don't love you. I assume that married men are trying to make up for the fact that they are married so they go an extra mile in showing affection and attention.

 

You said yourself that only if you realized that he was using the children as an excuse and was actually comfortable with keeping you as the OW and leading a double life, you would be disappointed enough to leave him. You will not leave him as long as it feels good for you to be in the relationship. Your love has to develop naturally and come to the point where you can't stand it anymore or he doesn't want you anymore.

 

Have you thought about how you would feel if he would date you for years and then leaves you? Wouldn't you feel used? You have hopes that he will be with you some day, but as Lucrezia said the outcome is very predictable. It's deja vue for most OW. Or you may get tired of being the OW and dump him after 5 years.

 

Being single at 42 is not as bad as being single at 52. Or 62. Or 72... You are wasting your chances to meet someone who may unconditioanlly be there for you and not run back to his wife when the fun is over. Just because you don't like the men who are interested in you doesn't mean that there is no other man in this world who might be rigth for you. Is MM really Mr. Right?

[OldEurope]

Quote: But the idea that the only 'answer' to our situation is to stop seeing each other makes no sense to me. There are points and questions I've raised in my posts here which no one has been able to answer, but rather reiterating that NC is the only way. But I've asked... the only way to what? The only way to miss out developing what we have? The only way for me to manage to find someone/anyone to marry me and give me a baby? Those aren't goals I have.

 

 

Sami, the main reason for NC is not (just) about "moving on", or about the priority of his kids, or that you can send melancholic text messages about your "unhappiness". The effectiveness of NC is that it puts the relationship you have to the test, and that test is to see if his life becomes so impossible to imagine without you in it FULLY, that he will, step-by-step, start making concrete changes in his life to ultimately be with you.

 

Furthermore, if you are as self-confident as you report, you would apply NC, knowing that you are to be won, and that you will turn on your high heel and go, if things-as-they-are do not pick up momentum in the right direction.

 

You are clearly not happy with the inertia that has settled into what is going on, nor can it be too comforting for you to know that, in his words, current arrangments make his marriage "tolerable" (again, red flag there).

 

NC has a definite genius about it, when done correctly--that is, in a cool, calm manner of withdrawl, NOT teary, hair-pulling phone calls of "You bastard! That is that! I am gone!". I strongly doubt there is any OW who became a W who at some point (and you are at the 18 month point--that is A LOT of time) did not go into serious NC. Ultimately it shows true savvy and self respect.

[RecordProducer]

By the way, Old Europe is one of the women who made her MM divorce after a year and marry her! So she is probably most competent in this matter. I think you should see the thread she strated before and read it carefully.

However her case is different from yours as her guy didn't have children, was married for a long time, and is European.

[Beentheredonethat]

Most of you seeing MM say he is only there for the kids, he does not love W etc. Do you believe this just because he says it. You have no idea what he is saying to her if anything. There is much more of a connection to the wife and while you may think you "win" in the end, it will not be a relationship built on trust.

Why would anyone want to do this to themselves?