MM says he's leaving his wife... stories/advice/comments?

[Hot Coco]

I just wonder whether by telling you to keep NC, he's playing with your mind a little. Ok, like if he said he didn't want to have NC with you, he'd miss you too much, etc. etc. you'd probably say "no, that's what we need to do now." You'd be more firm about it. But him saying, yes we need to do this. You should stick to it, I'm just wondering if he's saying that to make you cave in quicker. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

I don't know him so I don't know if his manipulation goes as far as to use reverse psyhology on you but it could be.

 

I think you said you had kids right? Don't you ever use reverse psychology on them? It works!

 

Sounds like you're doing fine. Going through the motions of life is always the way it is in the beginning. But before you know it, one day, you will be doing more than just going through the motions of life...you'll actually be LIVING your life!

[Sami_D]

I just wonder whether by telling you to keep NC, he's playing with your mind a little. Ok, like if he said he didn't want to have NC with you, he'd miss you too much, etc. etc. you'd probably say "no, that's what we need to do now." You'd be more firm about it. But him saying, yes we need to do this. You should stick to it, I'm just wondering if he's saying that to make you cave in quicker. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

 

Ah no, I don't have children.

 

But if this is 'reverse psychology', it's not working lol. When he texted back that he loves me, misses me, wants me in his life, but believes we should stick to NC... I believe he wants me to stick with it.

 

In fact, the fact that he WANTS me to stick with it is the one sure thing that will get me through this. He knows me by now... I think he knows that I trust him and wouldn't try to second guess his intentions.

 

I do trust him. So I'm sticking with the NC.

[RecordProducer]

He could still read her stories and tuck her in her OWN bed. Only her bed would be wherever HE is. The important thing isn't the damn bed! It's that she's with HIM.

It's not the same. Being a child of divorced parents, living in two houses, and dealing with step-parents is not the same as living with both parents. I am divorced and so are my parents so I know this.

 

If he is anything like me then he doesn't want to leave his daughter. I would never leave my husband if that meant leaving my children. I would not agree to shared custody. I want to be with my kids every day and put them in bed, cook for them, take them to school, cuddle with them, bathe them, take care of them when they are sick, etc. I WOULD get divorced if my marriage was unbearable if I knew that the kids would be with me. My ex-husband was the one who left me and although he sees our 7-year old boys very often (he used to see them every day until half a year ago), it's not the same as living with them.

He's lying. I'm telling you, Sami. He's lying. I know it. But he's VERY good at it and he's acting VERY sincere. And he's telling you that he doesn't blame you if you want to leave because you know why? He KNOWS you're not going anywhere and if you do, he'll risk losing you. That's not a strong enough love in my book.

I don't understand why women tend to believe men when they are lying and not believe them when they are telling the truth. This guy said he won't get divorced. Was that a lie? No! He said he wants to live with his daughter. Was that a lie? No.

He accepts NC, although he wants to see Sami. Is that unfair? No. It only means that he understands her position, knows he's toxic for her, and doesn't want to hurt her anymore. Whether he is not fully in love or he is such an altruist, doesn't really matter. It's how we act, not how we feel that counts. Self-control of our feelings makes our characters.

 

MM refuses to take advantage of Sami's feelings so let's give him some credit for that. He could have promised her the moon and stars and keep her hanging on for a few more years or at least months.

 

He IS a cheater, but people are not total devils or total angels anyway. Actually by letting her know that he won't divorce his wife and insisting on NC, he is letting her go and preventing her from being hurt even more.

 

Sami, I think you should get over him. He will not divorce his wife, it's clear now so there is no room for you in his life unless you want to be his mistress. It's a love triangle.

[Sami_D]

Thanks for your post RP.

 

Just one thing. He didn't say he wouldn't get divorced. He said he will. He just couldn't give me a time period, and that got me worried. So we came here and asked for advice. The advice was NC, and we decided to do it because we were in a really difficult situation.

 

And I do totally believe him when he says that he wants and needs this time with his daughter. He's not a bad man. He's not a cake-eater. He's just trying the best he can, I'm sure of that.

[Hot Coco]

It's not the same. Being a child of divorced parents, living in two houses, and dealing with step-parents is not the same as living with both parents. I am divorced and so are my parents so I know this.

 

If he is anything like me then he doesn't want to leave his daughter. I would never leave my husband if that meant leaving my children. I would not agree to shared custody. I want to be with my kids every day and put them in bed, cook for them, take them to school, cuddle with them, bathe them, take care of them when they are sick, etc. I WOULD get divorced if my marriage was unbearable if I knew that the kids would be with me. My ex-husband was the one who left me and although he sees our 7-year old boys very often (he used to see them every day until half a year ago), it's not the same as living with them.

I don't understand why women tend to believe men when they are lying and not believe them when they are telling the truth. This guy said he won't get divorced. Was that a lie? No! He said he wants to live with his daughter. Was that a lie? No.

He accepts NC, although he wants to see Sami. Is that unfair? No. It only means that he understands her position, knows he's toxic for her, and doesn't want to hurt her anymore. Whether he is not fully in love or he is such an altruist, doesn't really matter. It's how we act, not how we feel that counts. Self-control of our feelings makes our characters.

 

MM refuses to take advantage of Sami's feelings so let's give him some credit for that. He could have promised her the moon and stars and keep her hanging on for a few more years or at least months.

 

He IS a cheater, but people are not total devils or total angels anyway. Actually by letting her know that he won't divorce his wife and insisting on NC, he is letting her go and preventing her from being hurt even more.

 

Sami, I think you should get over him. He will not divorce his wife, it's clear now so there is no room for you in his life unless you want to be his mistress. It's a love triangle.

 

I agree with most of what you said RP but the guy hardly spends time with his kid as it is. He's staying in hotels, etc. Read back. He might have MORE time with her if he divorced and had his own place. That's all I was saying. That's why I don't believe him. I don't believe the REASONS he gave Sami for not divorcing. I explained why in another post. BUT I agree with you completely that he's not promising anything and for that, he's better than most (but he's still a liar and a cheater) but he least he hasn't given Sami too many false hopes. Although he DOES say that he will divorce SOME day...just won't say when. That's still kind of keeping her dangling. But yes, I gave him credit for not misleading her too much.

 

And I completely agree with you that if Sami stays in this R she will always be the OW. And she doesn't want that.

[Sami_D]

I think the thing is that while he's staying in hotels during the week, he still gets to be with his children at weekends in a way that satisfies him and allows his little girl in particular that feeling that life is OK, nothing has changed, and her childhood is the one that he would want to give her was his M in any fit state to do that.

 

Like you, Coco... I've suggested to him that if he leaves his W, that he will be able to be a more honest, there-for-them father than he really can at the moment. I don't know which way he will go. I really don't. But you know, this decision has NOTHING to do with how much he loves or respects me. And it has EVERYTHING to do (or should do) with what he thinks is the right thing for him and his little girl.

 

THIS is why I have been so very unsure about NC. Because I don't want it to be about ME, and how much he loves ME. I know how much he loves me! I know how he feels. And he doesn't give me BS (in the other sense of the phrase). All I want it to be about is what the Right Thing to do is.

 

And thanks to you both for reading back a little on the story and realising that he's not a BS-er. Thanks.

[Hot Coco]

Sami, the point of NC isn't about him proving his love. It's about you not being the OW anymore. You've said that's not what you what and he seems to respect that. I don't think HE wants you to be the OW. That tells me that maybe, just MAYBE he does love and respect you since he's not asking you to be that anymore.

 

Don't forget what the point of NC is. It sounds like you're losing your conviction a little today? Am I right? Stay strong, Sami!!! Don't forget why you're REALLY doing it!

[Owl]

Sami-

 

Please realize I have a bit of trouble keeping everyone's situations straight a lot of times...so let me ask you this...has he told his W about you, or does she already know about you and him? And...are you POSITIVE about that answer...what proof (other than him telling you) that she knows/doesn't know?

[Sami_D]

Hey Owl.

 

No, she doesn't know anything about me.

[Sami_D]

Well my reaction to your post was that no, she doesn't know about me.

 

But maybe there's more to this.

 

Personally (and he would probably disagree) I feel she's almost certainly involved in some other relationship. What wife could care less for their H's movements, and not care about talking to him more than a minute or so a night... and at weekends... there's just the usual 'couples' thing with their mutual marrieds social events...

 

I'm just thinking of how I would be.

 

But of course... I'm newly in love with him. How would I know about how a woman married to him for 15 years would feel? I'm not going to debate all that.

 

I just dont' know how she feels for him. Or how it all is.

 

All i can know is my perspective.

[seachange]

Hi Sami. I've read through your thread. I guess I'm just wondering about a sort of corollary to what Owl said - MM told you the wife doesn't know, and that he's spending as much time apart from her as he can stand being away from his kids.

 

I agree, that does seem unlikely, that she would be cool with that - but it's kind of an either/or thing. I mean, it could be she's got someone else, or it could be that he's not really spending so much time away as he says. So, I guess my question is, how sure are you that he's really spending so little time with her, not having sex, etc? Is there any room for doubt? You guys are LD, right?

[RecordProducer]

Read back.

Yeah, I've missed a lot of the thread and knew that I'd write something without knowing some facts.

Although he DOES say that he will divorce SOME day...just won't say when. That's still kind of keeping her dangling.

That's true. I think he is rather thinking out loud. He is not quite happy with his marriage but also not quite unhappy - not ready to get divorced at this moment, which means he may never be.

Sami, the point of NC isn't about him proving his love. It's about you not being the OW anymore.

Right! Stay firm in your choice not to be the OW and strong enough to cope with NC. You can do it! Right?

[Owl]

Sami-

 

Well, MY feelings are that he HAS to be a BS'er...because he's clearly hidden an entire seperate piece of his world (his R with you) from his wife. Someone he's been with for 15 years.

 

Let me be blunt...my wife conducted an emotional affair, and hid that part of life from me...she BS'ed me, at least while that was going on. (she wasn't very successful at it...I suspected almost immediately, and it took me less than a week to get definitive 'proof' when I began investigating). If he's successfully kept his R with you from her for an extended time, he's a skilled liar. Realize that it's pretty hard to lie like that to someone that has known you that long. My wife and I were married about 17 years when we went through our "times of trouble". I knew almost immediately...because she's NEVER been a skilled liar.

 

If he's capable of lying successfully to her, then he's more than capable of doing so to you. And he now has an established history of successfully deceiving someone he 'loves'...so not only does he have the opportunity, he also has the method. All that would be lacking would be motive...

 

What motive would he have to lie to you about his R with his wife and his family? Simple...if he truly has no intention of ever leaving his wife, if he IS just a cake-eater ( I don't know that he is or isn't...I'm simply pointing out possibilities), then lying to you would allow him to maintain the status-quo. Giving him the 'family and marriage', and a woman on the side to be there for him outside of that. Honestly, the vast majority of men who get involved in an affair will attempt to maintain that situation for as long as possible...they'll even continue to try to maintain it when it's clearly become impossible. They'll lie creatively and continously to anyone in the hopes of keeping it going.

 

I completely understand that you're going to feel that your situation is different...that your MM is different. Honestly, EVERYONE feels that their own situation is unique.

 

Take my wife's case...she'd NEVER met this guy in real life. Not once. She had ONE digital pic of him that even she admitted (after the mental fog began to clear) that she didn't know how old or accurate the pic was. But when ALL of us tried to convince her that she couldn't possibly know this guy well enough to be in love with him, she said we were wrong. I asked her what she would tell our daughter if she was doing the same thing...she replied "But that's different...I KNOW that I'm in love with him".

 

The point is this...the odds of your MM being different from the thousands of others out there and being the one honest MM in existence are nil...in fact, I would say that you CAN'T have an honest MM...it's an even bigger oxymoron than 'military intelligence'.

 

Regardless, I hope things work out the best way possible for all of you...but I personally would recommend you try to keep your eyes as open as possible...and be ready for the fall when it hits.

[Sami_D]

it could be that he's not really spending so much time away as he says. So, I guess my question is, how sure are you that he's really spending so little time with her, not having sex, etc? Is there any room for doubt? You guys are LD, right?

 

Well, I'm 100% sure of his doing exactly what he says. I know the staff at the hotel he lives in during the week. They know me as his 'partner'... I can call him anytime during those weeks. I've been up to visit him any week I want to, so... Yes. He's in Edinburgh all those weeks.

[Sami_D]

Right! Stay firm in your choice not to be the OW and strong enough to cope with NC. You can do it! Right?

 

Yes, I can do it.

 

This isn't the worst situation I've faced in my life.

 

However, I am still not certain that leaving him now is the only logical result... I do believe him when he says he wants/needs to be with his little girl. I don't believe that him telling me he can't leave means HE DOES NOT want to be with me.

 

I love him, respect him, and believe in his decisions. Does that make either of us idiots? No, I don't think so. I really don't think so.

[seachange]

Hey, sorry, I may totally have overlooked this somewhere in your thread, but I'm curious - does he stay in the hotel in Edinburgh for work (I mean, is that the official reason)? As in, he lives far enough away from his work that he can justify commuting there during the week?

[OldEurope]

Sami-

 

Well, MY feelings are that he HAS to be a BS'er...because he's clearly hidden an entire seperate piece of his world (his R with you) from his wife. Someone he's been with for 15 years.

 

 

This is hitting the nail right on the head. The fact that he has not told his wife about you after all that has been going on is not a good sign. A man contemplating this huge a life's change would be direct and honest with all parties involved upon arriving at the point of contemplating divorce.

 

Not telling the wife means he wants to keep that foot in the door, the back exit available, the plans b, c and d viable. Most of all, it means that he is afraid to face the consequences.

[Hot Coco]

Yes, I can do it.

 

This isn't the worst situation I've faced in my life.

 

However, I am still not certain that leaving him now is the only logical result... I do believe him when he says he wants/needs to be with his little girl. I don't believe that him telling me he can't leave means HE DOES NOT want to be with me.

 

I love him, respect him, and believe in his decisions. Does that make either of us idiots? No, I don't think so. I really don't think so.

 

No, Sami it doesn't make you idiots...but by staying it DOES make you the OW. Personally, I'd have a hard time choosing which is worse...being an idiot or being an OW!

 

And nobody yell at me for saying that. That's MY opinion. For someone else they'd think being an OW is better than being an idiot. Not for me though...they're about equal.

 

Maybe we should start a poll? Which would you rather be an idiot or an OW/OM? Some might say that BEING an OW/OM is idiotic...

 

Carry on...don't mind me.

[Sami_D]

Sami-

 

Well, MY feelings are that he HAS to be a BS'er...because he's clearly hidden an entire seperate piece of his world (his R with you) from his wife. Someone he's been with for 15 years.

 

Let me be blunt...my wife conducted an emotional affair, and hid that part of life from me...she BS'ed me, at least while that was going on. (she wasn't very successful at it...I suspected almost immediately, and it took me less than a week to get definitive 'proof' when I began investigating). If he's successfully kept his R with you from her for an extended time, he's a skilled liar. Realize that it's pretty hard to lie like that to someone that has known you that long. My wife and I were married about 17 years when we went through our "times of trouble". I knew almost immediately...because she's NEVER been a skilled liar.

 

He doesn't have to lie about anything.

 

The times I've met him have been when he's working away in Scotland. There's nothing to lie about. No skill involved.

[Sami_D]

This is hitting the nail right on the head. The fact that he has not told his wife about you after all that has been going on is not a good sign. A man contemplating this huge a life's change would be direct and honest with all parties involved upon arriving at the point of contemplating divorce.

 

Not telling the wife means he wants to keep that foot in the door, the back exit available, the plans b, c and d viable. Most of all, it means that he is afraid to face the consequences.

 

Why would he tell her about me?

 

In all the times we've discussed it, he's said that his plan would be to leave and get a place of his own. Then, sometime down the line, introduce me to his children (assuming it all continued between us).

 

There has never been any suggestion that he'd say 'hey, I found someone I like better than you'. There's just no need for that.

[Sami_D]

Hey, sorry, I may totally have overlooked this somewhere in your thread, but I'm curious - does he stay in the hotel in Edinburgh for work (I mean, is that the official reason)? As in, he lives far enough away from his work that he can justify commuting there during the week?

 

Yes, it's far enough away that he has to fly up to work in Edinburgh every week.

[wyldflower]

I have the advantage of having the father of my daughters in pretty much the same situation as what I'm going through, but he is the attached man in love with someone else and unhappy with pregnant girlfriend. Since he is one of my best friends, he knows about my situation with J in depth and I, his.

Men do have feelings. They do love. They do have obligations they feel they need to fulfill.

 

Through talking to mey ex I understand where J is at. It's quite an inside perspective to have, let me tell you.

 

I would never say to you that he is a player, he's always going to go back and forth etc. We don't know the man. And some of these situations ARE entirely about men with genuine feelings in bad situations. of course some are not, but I think deep down every OW knows if she is being taken for a ride by a player.

 

For the record, my uncle had an affair with a woman for a while, then left his wife, married her and they now have 3 beautiful boys and have been married for over 15 years. It is possible.

 

Good luck.

[Sami_D]

Thanks so much for your good luck wishes wyldflower. I think you're the first person to wish me luck, and it does mean something to me.

 

I guess your stories/recollections of people who had an affair that ended in a positive way really support your comments towards me. This is something that really has come to be significant to me a lot on these boards. The origin of those points of view we encounter here.

 

The comments and advice we get that are about personal experience (or the experience of those we know) really mean a whole lot. Those comments based on hurt through bad experience relating to parents actions, or just general comment based on socially determined and moralistic thinking, just don't bear consideration, since they're founded in personal hurt and a desire to 'make the past not happen' (not that that's a bad thing in itself, but in the case of where a R might go, it's inadmissable).

 

In trying to find a solution to our own personal situations, we really need to assess the usefulness of the evidence and advice put before us. We need to discriminate between evidence we're rejecting because it feels bad, and evidence we're rejecting because it isn't 'useful' or admissable. These decisions shouldn't be made as a result of some throwaway comment made by people who fall into either of these categories. They should be made with a real knowledge of what is and isn't good advice.

 

Most/all of the people posting on OW are trying to help. But the question is... who are they trying to help, and do they have useful, relevant experience? Sometimes, people posting here are re-living and wanting to make different their own past experience, OR, wanting to enforce moral views which they (unthinkingly) subscribe to.

 

It's up to each of us to pick apart these sources, and try to make the best decisions we can, given a set of circumstances which is OBVIOUSLY out of the ordinarily accepted state of affairs.

[Sami_D]

There are a few grammatical and other mistakes in my recent post. I hope that the general sense of it, rather than particular points, will be the one understood by anyone reading it