MM says he's leaving his wife... stories/advice/comments?

[whichwayisup]

I wonder how she is doing...Wonder if she'll post again and give an update?

[newbby]

i think she wasnt able to post anymore, her posts kept getting deleted

[heyitsmichele]

Hi sami.

 

I too am in the same situation. MM wasnt married when we started dating ...got married 6 months later to long time girlfriend. Two months after he got married I got pregnant ..he actually left her three weeks after he got married and moved in with me ... only to move back in with her a few weeks later ..its this on again ..im leaving her I love you thing that never ends. its always one excuse after another why MM don't leave. TRUTH IS if they wanted to leave, and if they really were that miserable ( as unhappy as they make us believe) they would leave. Wouldnt you leave. I'm sure you tell yourself all the time ..I WOULD LEAVE. MM have so many excuses. So finally i sat down with MM. I said.. how can you keep telling me you are going to leave wife and 2 kids? he said he would leave after wife gets done with school because he feels too guilty leaving her financially ruined. I said I will support us..now what? he said the children thing.. I said kids see you fighting, and its not healthy..now what? MM and I have 2 month old daughter together ...I noticed it is always something. Some reason for not leaving. TRUTH IS if he was going to leave he would have. MM told me he was not sleeping with W. HE WAS. once a month so she would think relationship was OK. SICK SICK SICK. He is keeping the peace at home so fights dont break out, and having fun with you....OR he would have left by now. Something is keeping him home. I think its a great idea to really dig deep and ask all the questions you wonder. If the love is that great, and that special wouldn't you do anything to keep it? Shouldn't he do anything to keep it??

[Sami_D]

... as long as you're giving him what he needs, he has it all and will not leave. You need to cut him off and not take him back as soon as he looks for you. If he can't live without you, he will divorce his wife. But you're afarid that he won't. Then think about it, are you really willing to waste your time and hopes on someone who will never be yours?

 

He won't divorce his wife at the moment, whether or not I cut him out of my life. He's said that is the case, and I don't think that would change if I went NC with him. IF I do the NC thing, then it would be because it is what suits me. I don't know, at this moment, whether I want to do it or not.

[Sami_D]

 

The key point I believe was brought up by LucretiaBorgia when Sami wrote that her MM told her she makes his marriage "tolerable". Big red flag there. Tolerable means doable means liveable. There should be NOTHING about his current state of affairs that should in the least be "tolerable". Viewed in Sami's favor, he should, rather, be in an extreme state of anxiety over her, over losing her, over his life losing its personal direction, losing a happiness that he still might yet impart to his children.

 

I completely agree with this. He doesn't seem to be worrying about whether or not he'll lose me. I think he's pretty certain that nothing much has changed between us and that I'll be coming up to see him next week, as planned (I have a plane ticket).

 

Furthermore, at 18 months, the very issues of his children, of his place and purpose in his current marriage should have been examined over, under, backwards and sideways in the magnified glare of his own psychological microscope. It is late to be still waffling.

 

It is very late to be waffling, agreed. On the other hand, we did get off to a slow start, not really getting together till April this year, and only having seen eachother probably ten times. LDR.

 

[

Also, I am a big big big proponent of iron clad NC--but done with a bit of kicking up one's heels, rather than sulking away behind text messages(Oh, I have done that too!). Sami should go stone-cold silent, but in doing so, to get creatively busy or to do things she has been putting off for the sake of "being there". This absolutely does not mean games or tricks; ie, dating others--not yet, not at this time--trying to make him jealous, which will come flying back in her face.

 

What would be the purpose of this? To get him to change his mind, or to 'get on with my life'? I already only see him rarely. We have only met once in the past three months. Really, I already have plenty of time to pursue just about anything I want in life. Including dating other people, which I have done since I've known him.

 

The most dignified thing to do would be to say, "I see that your situation with your children is simply too strong to make a decision at this time. Should you be, however, certain of a future with me--and only when you are certain--I will love to see you again". Something of this variety. It shows a) total character--i.e. thinking of his children first, recognizing his pain, taking a step aside for love and out of true love b) it doesn't SLAM the door in his face but closes it, not all the way, gently c) takes a certain pressure off of him, d) reinforces your committment which will ease his insecurities.

 

Now this is exactly what I'm considering. I think I may go up to see him this coming week, to see how things pan out face to face. There are a lot of questions I really need answers to. If he's still fudging by Friday I believe I need to end the situation with him.

[Sami_D]

The bad things will really start to overwhelm the good ones. That is just what happens.

 

You have to decide for yourself. If you can be a life-long OW, or one for many, many years at quite a risk, that is for you to decide. We here just do not want you to wake up three years from now saying, "That is a good thing?"

 

Again, please look up a thread by KKat who was an OW for 12 years on-off or so and now seems rather despondent about it (I do not want to speak for her). Yet in her posts she speaks of a low self esteem that "cannot let go". You decide.

 

I don't know how I would handle being an OW. A lot depends on whether he can say yes, he will leave at some point. I don't think he knows that himself, so how can he make a promise about it? So I would be continuing in blind faith in 'us' and the future.

 

I've looked up the kkat story, and read a lot of the posts you've all made about your situations as OW. I believe that even if I continue this relationship there will come a time when I'm going to be here (or somewhere) going NC and looking for support. I've always thought that, somehow, even when he said he 'was leaving'. Somehow I just don't have faith that he will.

[Sami_D]

obviously i am coming from the perspective of being an adult now, and it was difficult when i was 13 and my dad told me that my parents were getting divorced. but i also saw my mom flourish afterwards, she got her master's degree and was independent for the first time in her life. my dad went through some rough times, but he eventually married the woman who he is still with today and we love her very much. she was even a great source of support to us when my mother passed away prematurely at age 52. i am not saying it wasn't bumpy for me when they split, but i also know that it would have been no less so if the tension would have built and there was no affection/love between my "role models" for a marriage. my parents were also great about communication with my sister and i and we all even went to counseling together for a bit to help us get through it. i just think that it isn't any better for a child to grow up and find out that their dad or mom cheated on the spouse but stayed married. that can cause a lot of resentment in and of itself.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience on this. I've done some reading on another part of LS, where people were talking about telling their children they were divorcing. There were some very sad stories. It seems to me that the teenage years wouldn't be such a bad time to divorce as when children are smaller.

 

But this is me giving him time, perhaps.

[Sami_D]

...

as it stands, sami d, has to make a choice to be a long term ow, or not. the trouble is sami, that you also have to be prepared, if he says he will wait until the children are old enough, before he leaves, there might always be another excuse.

really the only decision you can make is to be an ow or not to be, regardless of what may or may not occur in the future.

 

This is exactly in accordance with my own thoughts.

 

I think I'll know more about how I feel about that at the end of next week, assuming I go up to see him. I don't really want to go, because I know it will be a week of tears and stress (another one ) but on the other hand, I don't think i can make a definite decision on all this without having some long, serious conversations with him, and having those on the phone is very difficult.

[Sami_D]

Then you'll have another "marie" situation here. There has to be a time when ya say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and get out. The MM isn't going to do anything to change it, so it's up to the OW to put down her foot, get mad and leave! Find someone else who will make your heart sing...A man who is single and available!

 

Yes. And that is likely what will happen.

 

I've always been one to continue with something long after I shouldn't. But eventually I do end it. I don't suppose anything is going to change in my personality.

 

Would any of you honestly say that you know you would end it at this point? (rather than from the position of hindsight?). Don't we all need to get to that position where we think the horse really IS dead before we stop flogging it?

[Sami_D]

this is very true old europe, even if you felt that you could handle being an ow at the moment, it could still wear you down over the long term to the point that you wanted to get out, but, just couldnt.

i suppose then the only decision you can make is whether to commit to this as you would any other relationship, that is commit to it for the long term, but, exactly as it is now. the only way to do this is to be brutally honest with yourself about your real expectations for the relationship, if it turns out that somewhere inside you are hoping he will leave at some point, then you really should make clear your expectations now, and stick to them.

 

WOW, another good point.

 

I don't know whether I could commit to this as it is now. Simply because I don't know why he can't promise me that he will leave at some point at the future.

 

At the moment I've said: If you can't promise me you can divorce by a particular date, then can you promise me you will divorce at some point in the future? He wrote back that he doesn't want to make promises because he doesn't want to have to keep saying 'not yet, no not yet' to me.

 

I think he's hedging. What do you all think?

 

I think that I might continue it with him just as far as I think I'm getting something out of it. I don't want the pain of NC. Maybe it's the best thing to just let the relationship die of its own accord. It's not like either option saves me any pain, is it?

[Sami_D]

He is keeping the peace at home so fights dont break out, and having fun with you....OR he would have left by now. Something is keeping him home. I think its a great idea to really dig deep and ask all the questions you wonder. If the love is that great, and that special wouldn't you do anything to keep it? Shouldn't he do anything to keep it??

 

Yes, he is keeping the peace at home. And he's working away so that he doesn't have to live with her. He's told me those things. He actually would rather work away and spend the weeks in hotels than spend time with his wife.

 

The reason that he's not doing 'anything' to keep it is that he doesn't want to 'leave his children'. I believe that of him.

 

What I don't know is... are there other things that just haven't come up yet, that he can't (eventually) deal with? He's said that his parents, friends, etc, ARE an issue for him, but those are surmountable. The one sticking point for me is ... can he leave his wife (when the children are old enough), or will he come up with some 'reason' that that's not possible? That's the real one I wonder about. Maybe that's just ridiculous of me, given the fact that he's living in hotels to avoid her... I don't know. This is something we need to discuss further.

[newbby]

WOW, another good point.

 

I don't know whether I could commit to this as it is now. Simply because I don't know why he can't promise me that he will leave at some point at the future.

 

At the moment I've said: If you can't promise me you can divorce by a particular date, then can you promise me you will divorce at some point in the future? He wrote back that he doesn't want to make promises because he doesn't want to have to keep saying 'not yet, no not yet' to me.

 

I think he's hedging. What do you all think?

 

I think that I might continue it with him just as far as I think I'm getting something out of it. I don't want the pain of NC. Maybe it's the best thing to just let the relationship die of its own accord. It's not like either option saves me any pain, is it?

sami,

when lb said theres a difference between the how and uow, i think what she was saying is that the how doesnt ever have expectations for the relationship. it sounds that you really would like him to leave, but, will settle for the most that you can have.

Would any of you honestly say that you know you would end it at this point? (rather than from the position of hindsight?). Don't we all need to get to that position where we think the horse really IS dead before we stop flogging it?

the beauty of this site is that you can benefit from the hindsight of others, but, you are right, it is hard to apply to your own situation.

I think that I might continue it with him just as far as I think I'm getting something out of it. I don't want the pain of NC. Maybe it's the best thing to just let the relationship die of its own accord. It's not like either option saves me any pain, is it?

the trouble with these relationships, if you stay as ow is that they just dont die, they never move anywhere but backwards and forwards. i think you are already finding this. mm says he is thinking about leaving, mm says he cant, mm says he will leave, mm says he cant......

it keeps you from being able to see it through, because as you begin to, it has jumped back again. you may be beginning to work through some emotions, but then it jumps again to somewhere else. you just dont know where you are, and that keeps the relationship alive but in limbo, forever....

you say nc is too painful, but, it doesnt get any easier with time, because you are never at anywhere else in the relationship than you are now, not really, small illusions, but, no not really

it is far better to say what you want now, and to stick to that, because once you have let him think you are settling, he will always expect you to, he will be less likely to leave. less and less likely to. actions also speak louder than words.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I wish your MM would post here for his side, because one thing I wonder about... if he only sees his kids on the weekend anyway, and does not live at home except on the weekends, and has a dead marriage otherwise - then what would be so different about that if he moved out, had weekend visitations and had the kids come stay with him at his place? The only difference, if there is no interaction with the wife, is location.

 

The kids are old enough now to know that 'daddy only comes home on weekends' and that when he is at home 'mom and dad are not happy together'. Surely, unless he is putting on the mother of all 'happy acts' when he is at home on the weekends, he doesn't think his kids don't already know something is up?

[Sami_D]

I wish your MM would post here for his side, because one thing I wonder about... if he only sees his kids on the weekend anyway, and does not live at home except on the weekends, and has a dead marriage otherwise - then what would be so different about that if he moved out, had weekend visitations and had the kids come stay with him at his place? The only difference, if there is no interaction with the wife, is location.

 

The kids are old enough now to know that 'daddy only comes home on weekends' and that when he is at home 'mom and dad are not happy together'. Surely, unless he is putting on the mother of all 'happy acts' when he is at home on the weekends, he doesn't think his kids don't already know something is up?

 

This is exactly what I've said to him myself.

 

His response is, that 'getting divorced' = 'leaving the kids', and that 'leaving the kids' is something he can't do.

 

Apparently he can't see that he has already left the situation to all intents and purposes.

[Sami_D]

I wish your MM would post here for his side, because one thing I wonder about... if he only sees his kids on the weekend anyway, and does not live at home except on the weekends, and has a dead marriage otherwise - then what would be so different about that if he moved out, had weekend visitations and had the kids come stay with him at his place? The only difference, if there is no interaction with the wife, is location.

 

The kids are old enough now to know that 'daddy only comes home on weekends' and that when he is at home 'mom and dad are not happy together'. Surely, unless he is putting on the mother of all 'happy acts' when he is at home on the weekends, he doesn't think his kids don't already know something is up?

 

(can't seem to edit my other response to this, and I've thought of other things I wanted to say, so sorry for all the posts!)

 

The 'there is no interaction with the wife' thing... I don't know. Perhaps he is lying to me about that. I don't think he is.

 

Something feels 'not quite right' to me about it too. Actually, he's agreed with me that logically, my view is quite right. But something inside him won't accept that.

 

I don't know what that means, really. Does anyone else have any ideas?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Maybe he is avoiding alimony and child support? I've heard the phrase "cheaper to keep her" and I'm wondering if he is simply avoiding the emotional and monetary fallout? Not sure.

[Sami_D]

the trouble with these relationships, if you stay as ow is that they just dont die, they never move anywhere but backwards and forwards. i think you are already finding this. mm says he is thinking about leaving, mm says he cant, mm says he will leave, mm says he cant......

it keeps you from being able to see it through, because as you begin to, it has jumped back again. you may be beginning to work through some emotions, but then it jumps again to somewhere else. you just dont know where you are, and that keeps the relationship alive but in limbo, forever....

you say nc is too painful, but, it doesnt get any easier with time, because you are never at anywhere else in the relationship than you are now, not really, small illusions, but, no not really

it is far better to say what you want now, and to stick to that, because once you have let him think you are settling, he will always expect you to, he will be less likely to leave. less and less likely to. actions also speak louder than words.

 

You are so absolutely right about this. This is more or less what I wrote to him this morning. About a stunted, non-progressing, relationship.

 

No, I won't ever be happy being the OW. I will always want him to leave. And if he doesn't, then eventually (maybe sooner, maybe later) I will end it with him.

[Sami_D]

Right at this moment I'm feeling really negative about the whole thing.

 

He says he can't promise he will divorce one day, but doesn't give a rational, reasonable reason for that. (what he says is, that if he tells me that then I'll always be asking 'when?' and that's not fair on me

 

He hasn't really replied to my question about how he feels about his W. He just wrote back saying 'no, its about the children!'

 

He says he doesn't want to put his side here, because he 'wants to talk to me, not the forum'. I think that means that he's certain that his arguments would get blown out of the water. I don't like thinking that way about him.

 

Am I thinking correctly here?

[LucreziaBorgia]

what he says is, that if he tells me that then I'll always be asking 'when?' and that's not fair on me

 

How charitable of him to keep your best interests in mind like that while he continues to keep you hanging on.

 

If you aren't interested in continuing to be the OW, I'm seeing no reason to stay, and every reason to leave. He is offering you one sure thing: if you stick with him, you are guaranteed to be the OW. He cannot and will not guarantee you anything other than that. When it comes right down to it, who cares why? Is knowing that he can't handle guilt a reason to put the rest of your life on hold for this guy?

 

Seriously... time to start walking, unless you want to accept the only 'sure' thing he is offering.

[Sami_D]

How charitable of him to keep your best interests in mind like that while he continues to keep you hanging on.

 

If you aren't interested in continuing to be the OW, I'm seeing no reason to stay, and every reason to leave. He is offering you one sure thing: if you stick with him, you are guaranteed to be the OW. He cannot and will not guarantee you anything other than that. When it comes right down to it, who cares why? Is knowing that he can't handle guilt a reason to put the rest of your life on hold for this guy?

 

Seriously... time to start walking, unless you want to accept the only 'sure' thing he is offering.

 

Is he trying to keep me hanging on? I don't know.

 

"He cannot and will not guarantee you anything other than that."

 

That seems to be the case.

 

"Is knowing that he can't handle guilt a reason to put the rest of your life on hold for this guy?"

 

What do you mean by this? Guilt of what? Guilt of leaving his wife, or guilt of leading me on?

 

If he is the sort of person that I'm beginning to wonder he is, then I don't see any point in continuing with him. I don't know that I'm getting anywhere here.

 

He won't post here, and I am left trying to interpret his position, or asking you all to interpret his position. This isn't a great situation, and I think he could be doing more to ease it.

 

I really get the feeling that he's trying to put one over on me. My problem right at this moment is that he's at home with W, and I won't get chance to talk to him properly before I would have to get on the plane to see him. This is really not a good situation for me right now.

[whichwayisup]

He won't post here, and I am left trying to interpret his position, or asking you all to interpret his position. This isn't a great situation, and I think he could be doing more to ease it.

 

I really get the feeling that he's trying to put one over on me. My problem right at this moment is that he's at home with W, and I won't get chance to talk to him properly before I would have to get on the plane to see him. This is really not a good situation for me right now.

 

See? You even said it...He could make it easier on you but he isn't. That says ALOT. It isn't a good situation for you! This man may not be "purposely" being mean intentionally, but he's taking the easier way out so he doesn't have to deal with you and what you think.

 

End it. Yeah, it will be painful, but atleast you will have closure and be able to heal properly. This push/pull thing is killing you and isn't good for you mental health. How much can you take? Only you know the answer to that.

[Sami_D]

Emailed him and said that I need to talk to him before Monday. I can't go up there with so many doubts, and feeling the way I do. Anyone got any suggestions for the phonecall? Help, please. I feel totally at a loss here.

[Sami_D]

This man may not be "purposely" being mean intentionally, but he's taking the easier way out so he doesn't have to deal with you and what you think.

 

I need to know whether he isn't making it easier for me because he's lying to me about something, or because he's being honest.

 

I mean, he could not be making things easier for me because he really doesn't know what the future holds (or how he will feel in x number of years). Isn't that an honest, OK thing? I can live with that.

 

What I can't live with is if he's being dishonest with me in some way... trying to lead me on, fool me.

 

But I accept that... it might not matter, in many ways. It might not. I really need to talk to him, rather than just expound my fears here. Sorry for ranting.

[whichwayisup]

Don't be sorry for ranting.

 

If your gut is telling you something isn't right, listen to it. I'm telling you too, THERE IS A HUGE RED FLAG happening. Take a step back...Pretend your bestfriend is going through this and you're giving her advice. You can see it all, plain and clear - Yet she can't because she's in the situation. Take abit of time to yourself today and think. I am positive you will come up with some answers! Get a pen and paper, start writing it all out too. That will help. Weigh the good and the bad. All of it.

 

Emailed him and said that I need to talk to him before Monday. I can't go up there with so many doubts, and feeling the way I do. Anyone got any suggestions for the phonecall? Help, please. I feel totally at a loss here.

Just speak from your heart. Be honest and tell him how you feel. Don't hold back. If he isn't willing to discuss anything with you over the phone to help you feel better and to give you some answers, DO NOT go see him.

 

Remember, he is lying to his wife too. He's being dishonest to her, to you and to himself. So, I wouldn't bank on too much he says right now either.

 

Listen to your gut. The heart and the emotions involved is what is messing you up..Not the little voice inside.

[Sami_D]

Don't be sorry for ranting.

 

I'm telling you too, THERE IS A HUGE RED FLAG happening.

 

What is the red flag? I know I'm frightened, and I'm suspicious. And it doesn't help that I can't talk to him, can't put any of these things I've been thinking or need to know (since we had that conversation) to him.

 

I've been hurt a lot of times and I find it really hard to trust people. Is my gut telling me that he will never leave..? I can't be sure. I've always trusted him. But I know that I am always reticent to PUSH for answers, and he is always reticent to talk about things that make him upset. That has always bugged me. I'm feeling upset the whole time, yet he's allowed (by me) to escape from thinking and feeling bad, for some reason.