d'Arthez Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Well that's also your opinion. If you are not a Calvinist, that is not an opinion, but a fact. Link to post Share on other sites
sugar-rae Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If you are not a Calvinist' date=' that is not an opinion, but a fact.[/quote'] Well, he lived about 400 yrs ago, didn't he? I have not read his works, because I have the Bible. Christians have the Bible. Let me put it this way,for your "non-denominational eyes", MY Christian faith reads the Bible. So, of course, I'm not a Calvinist. Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Well, he lived about 400 yrs ago, didn't he? I have not read his works, because I have the Bible. Christians have the Bible. Let me put it this way,for your "non-denominational eyes", MY Christian faith reads the Bible. So, of course, I'm not a Calvinist. I have the Bible too. Does that make me Christian? No. Calvinists have the Bible too. Does that make them non-Christians? No. As if Calvinists don't live by the Bible . They only differ on how to interpret the Bible, and beliefs on how to live in accordance with God's Will. The God of Christians cannot disagree with the God of Christians. One of the things that seem absurd to non-believers, is that a lot of Christians have no problem with constructing things like that. Not to mention that they are certain about things that were never written in the Bible. It is impossible to demonstrate why your Christian views are superior to the views of Christians of other denominations. Link to post Share on other sites
sugar-rae Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I have the Bible too. Does that make me Christian? No. Calvinists have the Bible too. Does that make them non-Christians? No. As if Calvinists don't live by the Bible . They only differ on how to interpret the Bible, and beliefs on how to live in accordance with God's Will. The God of Christians cannot disagree with the God of Christians. One of the things that seem absurd to non-believers, is that a lot of Christians have no problem with constructing things like that. Not to mention that they are certain about things that were never written in the Bible. It is impossible to demonstrate why your Christian views are superior to the views of Christians of other denominations. John Calvin believed in predestination, right? what's up with that anyway. Of course, God knows whether we're going to Heaven or Hell. He's God. He's giving us a choice as to how we live our lives. He's letting us do our own will. Does he already know how we're going to be our whole lives? Yes. Because He's God. Why do other denominations make it sound so complicated? It isn't complicated to me. Why do I know this? Because God is not a God on confusion. I am taking that out of the Bible. I read the Bible. That's where I get what knowledge I have about how Christians have to live. If I don't live the way the Bible says, MY FAITH says I will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. It's so simple. So, whatever Calvinists believe, fine. Catholics, fine. Whatever faith, fine.. I'll just go by my faith and see what happens. ok? Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 John Calvin believed in predestination, right? what's up with that anyway. Of course, God knows whether we're going to Heaven or Hell. He's God. Which proves you don't have a clue on the teaching of predestination. Because whether or not God knows, is not an issue at all. Link to post Share on other sites
sugar-rae Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Which proves you don't have a clue on the teaching of predestination. Because whether or not God knows' date=' is not an issue at all.[/quote'] Of course I don't have a clue! I'm not a Calvinist. I'm a Bible reading, Jesus Christ loving person. This is my policy: Colossians 1:9-11: For this cause we also,since the day we heard it; do not cease to pray for you and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness. Of course, that doesn't have anything to do with the topic of predestiny, does it? Oh, well... I should have just said that instead of haggling about some 400 yr old theologian. Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Oh, well... I should have just said that instead of haggling about some 400 yr old theologian. Not just some theologian. Strange that you mention the word haggle. Are you confusing Luther with Calvin? We are not talking about some theologian. Perhaps you are one of those people who don't have a clue on the impact Calvin, Luther, and many other theologians had on Europe, in the period of the 13th to 18th century? Ever wondered why there are so many denominations in the US, that barely exist in Europe, and vice versa? Ever wondered why there is a Dutch Reformed Church in Southern Africa? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toni_no12002 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 Theres bones to prove they existed.Dinosaurs i mean.Where are jesus's bones we havent found them we only have the bible to go on that there is actually a god etc.Does everyone always believe what they read?Im not saying its all rubbish but it could be.There are museums with dinosaur bones in them.They are dated back to before jesus.So why wasnt those animals mentioned in the bible.Obviously if jesus is all powerful he would have known about these animals but ive never heard of it mentioned in the bible.So was jesus really what he says he is.Wheres the evidence? Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Believers who hold that the Bible is true with regards of the age of the Earth, would tell you that the dinosaur bones were put there by the devil, to confuse people. They do not accept that dinosaurs have existed at all. Some believers do accept that dinosaurs have existed, and that the Earth is indeed a few billion years old. Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I was thinking about something a bit ago.The bible says that where the first beings on earth doesnt it?So what about dinosaurs etc.Its been proven that they existed.There are two creation stories so pick one. Humans were last in both stories. Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Theres bones to prove they existed.Dinosaurs i mean.Where are jesus's bones we havent found them we only have the bible to go on that there is actually a god etc.Does everyone always believe what they read?Im not saying its all rubbish but it could be.There are museums with dinosaur bones in them.They are dated back to before jesus.So why wasnt those animals mentioned in the bible.Obviously if jesus is all powerful he would have known about these animals but ive never heard of it mentioned in the bible.So was jesus really what he says he is.Wheres the evidence?What do you think happens to bone over time? Why didn't anybody ask him about dinosaurs? Why stop there? For some reason, I don't think you are looking for answers. Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 sugar-rae, I want you to think about this verse Mat 7:6 - 6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Theres bones to prove they existed.Dinosaurs i mean.Where are jesus's bones we havent found them we only have the bible to go on that there is actually a god etc.Does everyone always believe what they read? Im not saying its all rubbish but it could be.There are museums with dinosaur bones in them.They are dated back to before jesus.So why wasnt those animals mentioned in the bible.Obviously if jesus is all powerful he would have known about these animals but ive never heard of it mentioned in the bible.So was jesus really what he says he is.Wheres the evidence? the Bible isn't going to address earthly issues, but relates to spiritual ones – therefore, you're not going to find footnotes on dinosaurs, the Chupacabra or Big Foot. Simply because they don't fit into the overall theme of spirituality and faith that the Bible addresses. Jesus didn't leave any bones because he ascended into heaven, or, if you will, went whole-bodied. How is this possible? Scientifically, it's not; spiritually, well ... God's behind it, and he can do anything. The laws of physics and time don't apply to him. again, I think you're trying to find answers to the mystical by using rationale and hard cold facts. When it comes to spirituality, you've got to pretty much forget everything you've ever known and learn to trust in what is given you, otherwise you're stuck in a quandry trying to make sense of it using science and fact and physical evidence. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toni_no12002 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 I am looking for answers what else would i be looking for?I just find reasons sometimes that i dont find in god.So why hasnt he explained them? And why are we actually here on this earth anyway? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 So why hasnt he explained them? maybe you're trying too hard? I don't know, kiddo, I guess it's just a trust issue when it comes to believing, otherwise no one would believe because they'd be too busy trying to find practical answers to supernatural questions! And why are we actually here on this earth anyway? it something for each of us to figure out for ourselves, based on the gifts we are given. Me, I figure I've been given a capacity to love greatly, so I'm supposed to share that wherever I can. Especially with little kids. Really especially when it comes to spoiling them :laugh: it's FUN being Auntie Mame ... Link to post Share on other sites
ButtonPusher Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Theres bones to prove they existed.Dinosaurs i mean.Where are jesus's bones we havent found them we only have the bible to go on that there is actually a god etc.Does everyone always believe what they read?Im not saying its all rubbish but it could be.There are museums with dinosaur bones in them.They are dated back to before jesus.So why wasnt those animals mentioned in the bible.Obviously if jesus is all powerful he would have known about these animals but ive never heard of it mentioned in the bible.So was jesus really what he says he is.Wheres the evidence? Ok here's a fact that christians are afraid of facing... There is absolutely NO evidence of a literal jesus. Nothing! The one historical document that christian historians point to, written by a jewish historian called Josephus, has been proven to be a forgery. The romans were meticulous in recording historical events, and yet there is nothing amongst roman historical documents about a guy who turned out to be the messiah. Umm don't you think SOMEONE would have written something about this guy that caused so much unrest amongst the jewish population. Hmmm could it be that the version of christianity in the world today is a distorted fragment of what it was 2000 years ago? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Ok here's a fact that christians are afraid of facing... There is absolutely NO evidence of a literal jesus. Nothing! The one historical document that christian historians point to, written by a jewish historian called Josephus, has been proven to be a forgery. that's a very interesting tidbit to ponder, though I think for me, more from the perspective that we've got a 2000-year-old belief system that has arisen from something that would appear to have sprung from thin air. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toni_no12002 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 It all confuses me!ho come that people wont believe in things sometimes said in books but when it comes to god and jesus etc there are so many followers?I think its nice to think that where not in this world for no reason.Maybe it gives us all a reason to be here.In the bible does it actually say if gods a man or women?Everyone gets annoyed at me because i automatically asume its a man(if there is one) but the word "god" is a man goddess is a women isnt it? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 since the earliest days there has been communication about God, people identified God as "he," which I think has more to do with those societies being patriarchal, where males were in positions of authority. Naturally, because God was seen as THE authoritative power, God was considered male. I know the Catholic Church now teaches that God cannot really be considered male or female, because there are qualities from both sexes that he possesses. There's even a move to push for inclusive language (not leaving everything as "he" but "he and/or she") in the Bible, but frankly, I think that becomes confusing, so I simply stick with "he" when referring to God. I think you're going to find a lot of argument about God's sex, that's how silly humans get when trying to give him our own attributes! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toni_no12002 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Some people will says that god is neither he or she.So what does that make him/her or whatever then? Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Some people will says that god is neither he or she.So what does that make him/her or whatever then?This is not important. Link to post Share on other sites
hooghie Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I am looking for answers what else would i be looking for?I just find reasons sometimes that i dont find in god.So why hasnt he explained them? And why are we actually here on this earth anyway? This is all you really need to think about and decide for yourself. This is exactly why people created 'god.' Gives them reasons/hope, etc. Maybe god DOES exist. For me, it's a lot more believable to think we created 'him' because it is in our nature to have answers for everything. I don't know why you keep asking the same questions. Educate yourself on various religions and philosophies and then make a decision for yourself. There are NO answers that will have 100% proof. Link to post Share on other sites
HotCaliGirl Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 since the earliest days there has been communication about God, people identified God as "he," which I think has more to do with those societies being patriarchal, where males were in positions of authority. Naturally, because God was seen as THE authoritative power, God was considered male. I know the Catholic Church now teaches that God cannot really be considered male or female, because there are qualities from both sexes that he possesses. There's even a move to push for inclusive language (not leaving everything as "he" but "he and/or she") in the Bible, but frankly, I think that becomes confusing, so I simply stick with "he" when referring to God. I think you're going to find a lot of argument about God's sex, that's how silly humans get when trying to give him our own attributes! If God impregnated the "virgin" Mary - Jesus's mom, and Jesus said that God is his father and that he is god who came in human form, wouldn't that make God a male? I'm just curious what makes some christian people so confused about the gender. On the other hand, people worshipped a female god before jesus came into the picture, so it could be a made-up thing to take power away from women and give it to a male figure since the whole church deal has been to weaken women and take power away from them, allowing men to make decisions that they once were able to make for themselves. Also, there is evidence the earth is almost 5 billion years old, most obvious one being the lower level of the grand canyon where rocks date that far back, but these are the same people who used to execute anyone, including Galileo who disputed that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around it, despite evidence that was shown, they couldn't believe the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, yet they still have creditbility with all the other mythns they try to shove down people, like the church's official claim that god placed dinasour fossils on earth to confuse people, since he works in mysterious ways. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toni_no12002 Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 I know this sound weird but doesnt the bible or something say that adultery is a sin?(the 10 commandments i think!)If god inpregnated mary who had joseph as a husband or whatever isnt that classed as cheating?Therefore god is a sinner to? Did mary ask to be inpregnated?I cant remember that so thats rape isnt it?I know this sounds far fetched but i dont think god would have done that really!If hes all good and that. Link to post Share on other sites
Chicana Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I know this sound weird but doesnt the bible or something say that adultery is a sin?(the 10 commandments i think!)If god inpregnated mary who had joseph as a husband or whatever isnt that classed as cheating?Therefore god is a sinner to? Did mary ask to be inpregnated?I cant remember that so thats rape isnt it?I know this sounds far fetched but i dont think god would have done that really!If hes all good and that. Yes adultery is a sin but the bible says that Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, she was not married yet and still a virgin. She conceived thru the Holy Spirit, not in the conventional way we might think of so the rape theory is not accurate. She was still a virgin after the conception. Thus the term you may have heard the immaculate conception. And, Mary was so to speak the chosen for amongst other reasons her purity (virginity). Joseph was a good man and was thinking about divorcing her quiety to prevent any public disgrace. But an angel came to him and explained that he should marry her and the the importance of the child she was carrying and what his name would be and what the babies purpose would be. Joseph so believed what he had heard that he did not have relations with Mary until after she gave birth and did what the angel asked him to. A lot of this is sometimes hard to believe and doesn't always make sense. But simply by virtue of the fact you are asking so many questions may be a sign that the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart and urging you to find the answers you need. I believe the bible says that everyone will be exposed to the word of God and will have the opportunity to make a choice to believe or not. It is so complicated that I urge you to keep asking and seeking answers. I am so sorry to hear about your Grandmother but as you have said that she is believer she can probably tell you that God is with her helping her with her pain and keeping her heart calm and taking away some of her fears. It is not fair, you are absolutely right. Who knows what causes cancer but whatever falls upon us God is there to help. Sometimes in ways we do not expect. And sometimes long after things happen we are shown the reasons. God may choose to take her to save her from the suffering and to pull you all together as a family in support and strengthen you all. Or the plan may be for her healing which would serve a different purpose. So hard to tell what the plan is for each of us and sometimes it is hard to wait for it all to unfold. But it will. I recently had a brain tumor removed and I got really really really scared and prayed to God to help me be strong and comfort me. This is what happened to me. About two days before surgery I had not been able to sleep but managed to drift off for about 30 minutes. While I was asleep I had a vivid dream that God and my Grandmother who had passed were standing by my side holding my hands and speaking to me. They told me not to be afraid of my surgery because they were both going to right there with me thru the whole thing. The morning of surgery I was quite upset in the pre operative area and they had to medicate me. Right after they gave me the meds I felt as if I had been touched by my Grandma and heard her say remember I will be with you. I still cry when I think about it. I did better than anyone they had seen in a long time. Faith, chance, or hopeful wishing?? Don't know but I think my faith and asking the the Lord gave me what I needed to make it thru. There is no right or wrong way to believe and it is very healthy to question. Keep searching for the answers and they will keep coming. Link to post Share on other sites
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