Is there really a god?

[quankanne]

beautifully put, Chicana, and welcome to the 'Shack

 

just wanted insert a bit of theology here:

 

And, Mary was so to speak the chosen for amongst other reasons her purity (virginity)

 

the Catholic Church teaches that Mary was pure in every way, not just sexually, that she was chosen as the vessel to bear the Christ-Child because she was conceived without sin. Which makes a certain amount of sense when you think about having the perfect "environment," if you will, for bringing the Son of God into the world.

[Toni_no12002]

Thanks chicana.I still find it hard to believe that mary was totally without sin.I mean i am a nice person and havent done anything really nasty to anyone but im sure ive done some sinning somewhere!Did mary want to be impregnated?

[quankanne]

scared, but thrilled that she, a lowly girl, was asked to be mother of the Saviour. In all manner of thinking, Mary was the first Christian, because she believed and embraced without first seeing him ...

 

from the Gospel of Luke, chapter 1, verses 26-38:

 

[26] And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

[27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

[29] And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

[34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

[36] And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

[37] For with God nothing shall be impossible.

[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

 

internet source: www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4609530

[Toni_no12002]

I would be a bit well.....peed of that he did that to me without asking really!If i was a virgin and woke up 1 day pregnant i would be really annoyed!He gave us free will isnt that taking that away!God chose her but how did he know she wanted that.She wasnt a virgin for no reason!

 

He cant just do what he wants can he?If he can then why give us free will in the first place?He cant just set rules for everyone and then break them.Fair enough he didnt actualy rape her or anything but how did he know thats what she wanted?He didnt ask what seems to me which is selfish.If he gave us free will in the first place why try to direct people towards him?he obviously wants followers.But why?Is he even right in the first place?

 

Sorry to anyone that disagrees with me but to me it all seems abit selfish!

[quankanne]

look at that last verse, where Mary says, "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word" – she's saying 'yes.' Even when she equally had the opportunity to say 'no.' Her questions are in that chapter, too, where she asks how it was possible for a someone like herself to become pregnant when she remained chaste, and the Gabriel explains to her how, if she said 'yes,' it would work.

[Toni_no12002]

Its all so strange.If i was joseph i would be really annoyed!god or no god!

[Chicana]

Toni You are right that all of this seems strange but it makes more sense the more you understand it. There are people amongst us who are have a deeper understanding and faith and take actions you and I would never consider. For example somebody like Mother Theresa being told to leave everything behind and leave a roof over her head and meals and comfort to go do the work of the Lord without question and with Faith and God in her heart as her comfort. She went places she had never heard of with only the clothes she wore and no food, place to stay, or pre defined knowledge of what her mission exactly was. She prayed daily and followed what the Lord was telling her to do. There are people amongst us that possess qualities we can't even fathom. I know if I would have a pretty tough time doing something so risky all based on faith. That is what sets the saints and holy people apart from every day man. For some reason their faith and understanding is deeper. It is not easy at all to do the things we think the Lord would have us do when we don't know, understand or agree with the reasons. I am a spiritual person not necessarily religious and I know I have to work on myself daily. Keep seeking the answers and they will come I promise if you look and listen for them. Sometimes we figure it all out after it's all over. But when I read your posts I can see that whether or not you realize it you are gaining some understanding and growing spiritually. Keep up the good work.

[Toni_no12002]

Hi thanks.One thing is that if we find out that there is actually no god people would have been reliogious for no reason.To me and im not saying people are wrong but just feeling that god is there doesnt actually mean that he is or there is a god does it?Anyway whats is it supposed to feel like?

[Chicana]

Hey Toni, Your question is one a lot of people ask. I don't know enough theologically to point you to the physical proofs that exist but there is a question I ask myself. What if God is not real and all the actions I have taken in my life were based on nothing? First of all I truly believe that there is a God and that his son Jesus gave his life for me. Having said that I will say that even if it all turned out to be false, all the things that Christians do based on their faith are good. Loving, giving, being honest, taking care of yourself and others, and in general being the best we can be to ourselves and others. What would you have lost in the process? Trying to be a good person can never hurt you. Now the deeply religious who take huge risks would have to answer that question for you themselves-that is how they do what they do based on faith. But I believe most people are good in their soul and so the chances those special people have taken were met with good people who helped them make it through whatever it was they thought God was telling them to do.

 

And you also ask "How does it feel ?" It is a peaceful feeling when you do whatever it is you think God is asking you to do. Kind of like when you were little and did something for your Mom, Dad, or Grandma they weren't expecting and it made them truly happy. The feeling you walked away with. The feeling of accomplishment and happiness because you did something good. That is kind of what it feels like. You feel good about yourself and you feel like you want to have that feeling over and over again. Now when not so good things happen those things are harder to face but you still have a peace about you knowing that God has his reasons and the cycle of life takes its course and that man does have free will and sometimes that does not turn out good but you have God to turn to. Now if God turned out not to be real as you asked, what would you have lost? A feeling of security and companionship? If those feelings were there when you needed them to be to see you through life you would have lost nothing.

 

It feels great to believe in God and if it all is not true, at least I spent my life striving to be good and better.

[tonyp56]

For me personally, I don't believe in religion. What that means, well, first of all, there was the first Christian church, and then it split into two churches, Roman Catholic and Orthodox Catholic Church (which is in Russia and that area). Then from the Roman Catholic Church there have been 20,000 different denominations (Baptist, Methodist, etc.). That means 20,000 different views or interpretations of the Bible.

 

Then when you look at Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, they ALL believe in the same God, but believe you get to heaven in different ways. All Christian churches of course share most things, and believe it or not, Judaism and Islam share a lot of their beliefs and customs between them and with Christians. Considering Judaism was first, it stands to reason Christians and Muslims would follow much of what Jews believe. One last thing, Jews have a few divisions (little bit different view), and Islam has at least two. So not even Jews or Muslims can decide if they can agree with themselves, let alone each other, though the divisions among these two religions is no where the 20,000 different divisions among Christians.

 

Then, you have all of the religions of the world that believe in different gods, and of course have different views of what heaven is, how to get there and how to live your life.

 

In my view point, I believe religion is nothing but population control. Each religion serving a particular area, country, etc... Now that everyone wants to be mixed, having every religion under the sun in an area that is historically Hindu for instance causes the people to have a turf war. (India and Pakistan boarder being one prime example of that) For instance, now that Christians and Muslims are competing with each other to spread their particular belief(s) throughout the world, it stands to reason there would be some fighting, because they will eventually step on each others toes and take offense to each other.

 

Anyways, that aside, I believe that there is a God. I believe that the universe, the earth, and us, are too complicated and two unique to have came from nothing. The big bang theory says that there was nothing, then a small explosion. Where did the explosion come from if there was nothing? (I mean how do you get a glass filled without anyone in the room?) And then all by itself 14 billion years later (or 12, 10, 16, 8, billion depending on which scientist you listen to) we have what we have now. This fact alone makes me believe that there has to be a god, but not necessarily any god in any religion.

 

I don't know that I believe in life after death that is the question that I can't, for myself, decide on. There is only one way to find out, and I am not in any hurry to see what happens when I die.

[Toni_no12002]

I think that even if i dont believe in god though that i can become a better person.Just because you believe in god doesnt automatically make you a good person does it.Meaning that all people that dont believe are bad.I dont believe in god at the minute im not sure if i ever will it all seems too unreal to me.I believe though that i am a good person .I havent done anything wrong exactly.Some people who are reliogious ,im sorry to say are bad .If it means that just because i dont believe in god in my after life i wont be allowed into heaven if there really is a god,and the people who are bad and believe in god get to go to heaven then thats more fool god.

Sometimes i think theres more important things than carrying out all of gods will.

I do believe that some people can become totally blind because of religion.

 

Well actually maybe everyone has a religion in some way.Like i try to help people and listen to there problems.I help in anyway i can.Maybe thats some sort but in a different way.Does it mean im bad because i dont believe in god?

Does it mean that just because some people believe in god and are religious that they are good?Not in my eyes.Maybe god will see it differently but after all we are all supposed to be his children so he should take us as we come really.

[tonyp56]

Toni,

 

I agree, you don't have to be religious to be good. I mean, when you think about all of the wars, deaths, etc. that have been caused by religion it is hard to say that religion is good. The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, 9-11, Iraq war in some ways, Afghanistan, etc. are good examples of people killing other people because of their religious beliefs. Thou shall not kill is in the Ten Commandments, but religious people kill all the time in the name of their religion. Not to even mention the priest sex abuse scandals.

 

Everyone knows right from wrong, rather or not you are religious, you should try to do right. Sometimes people make mistakes, and that is fine, but there are some mistakes that are unforgivable--rape, murder, etc.--then you are just wrong. But if you live your life the best you can, I think that is all you need to worry about. Not what church you belong to, or how much money you put into the offering plate, but how you live Sunday-Saturday, 365 days, and every year, for you life.

[musicmaniac4ever]

No, it won't. Just because you think you are a good person, weather religious or not, doesn't mean God will let you into heaven. The only way to get there is if you have Jesus in your heart.

[ButtonPusher]

In my view point, I believe religion is nothing but population control. Each religion serving a particular area, country, etc... Now that everyone wants to be mixed, having every religion under the sun in an area that is historically Hindu for instance causes the people to have a turf war.

You could say this if religions were created by governments or corporations. But most religions evolved from the practice of a small group of people. Of course you could view television or the appalling movies coming out of hollywood these days as religion too.

 

I believe that the universe, the earth, and us, are too complicated and two unique to have came from nothing. The big bang theory says that there was nothing, then a small explosion. Where did the explosion come from if there was nothing? (I mean how do you get a glass filled without anyone in the room?) And then all by itself 14 billion years later (or 12, 10, 16, 8, billion depending on which scientist you listen to) we have what we have now.

Or maybe.....there wasn't nothingness before, perhaps there was a universe similar to ours before the big bang, that collapsed in on itself to create the big bang which created our universe. Perhaps there have been countless universes that have emerged from a bang, expanded and then contracted to yet another big bang. Perhaps there was no beginning....

[Toni_no12002]

Its strange to think but there has to be a beggining to everyothing doesnt there?If there was what happened before that?!Really confusing.

[Chicana]

"I think that even if i dont believe in god though that i can become a better person. Just because you believe in god doesnt automatically make you a good person does it. Meaning that all people that dont believe are bad."

 

I think this part of what you said responds to the post where I mentioned that even if it turned out there was no God you would still be doing good things. I was inferring that as you say, you would be a better person for it. And your right that believing doesn't make you good and not believing doesn't make you bad. From the Christian point of view we all make mistakes but if you make a conscious decision not to believe in God and Jesus then you give up your chance to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. SO, the only way to know is going to be when you pass. Satan will certainly try to convice many here on earth that there is not enough proof of a real God and those that believe that will endure a different path. I mean it won't matter to you anyway if you truly do not believe.

 

 

"If it means that just because i dont believe in god in my after life i wont be allowed into heaven if there really is a god,and the people who are bad and believe in god get to go to heaven then thats more fool god."

 

Since you truly don't believe then it won't matter to you at all if you get into heaven or not. And even some of the most religious amongst us are sinners and will end up being in heaven if our heads and hearts are in the right places recognizing our wrongs and trying to strive for better things. Asking for forgiveness from the God we believe in and turning away from sinful ways.

 

"Sometimes i think theres more important things than carrying out all of gods will.I do believe that some people can become totally blind because of religion."

 

On this I would agree. Some people use religion as a veil for the things they are really doing or want to do and people can become blind. As far as you thinking that there are more important things than God's will to be done I think you would have to understand his will first which you do not. Even myself I have to search for the will God would have me do. But, I have Faith and am willing to try to live the will of God knowing I will only be a better person for it.

 

"Well actually maybe everyone has a religion in some way.Like i try to help people and listen to there problems.I help in anyway i can."

 

Helping others and listening is a GREAT thing to do but I am not sure it falls under the classification of religion. More along the lines of spirituality. Religion is more of an organized school of thought followed by a group of people. By the way since there are several different documents used by different religions to base their faith on I would like to mention that this may be the reason there are different religions. Different interpretations that's all. I think we are all worshiping the same God.

 

"Does it mean im bad because i dont believe in god?"

 

No you are not bad and I would agree that some who do believe can act badly. It just means you need to find the answers and make your choice.

 

 

"Does it mean that just because some people believe in god and are religious that they are good?Not in my eyes.Maybe god will see it differently but after all we are all supposed to be his children so he should take us as we come really."

 

Belief and religion does not make you good in itself. If your good actions are led by your faith then it just makes us better people. Not better than others just better than ourselves. We have improved ourselves and any behavior the Lord would have us change. And this is for our own betterment and his Glory that it was all based on Faith. Believe me God knows we are sinners and he loves us all just like we are. Just like our kids we lovem but there are things we say and do to encourage them to be better people. But no matter what if we have faith and ask him into our hearts he loves us.

[Toni_no12002]

SInce i choose not to believe in god and that means that i wont go to heaven fair enough but i dont think thats a reason to go to hell either after all its not exactly a sin or anything is it and im not being nasty.I think it would be unfair to do that.Its like bribary. if you dont believe in god then you will go to hell thats fair isnt it!

 

I would like to believe that there is a god and heaven etc i really would but i find it all very hard to believe.I believe that god-good and devil-bad is in all of us.

 

My grandad was a good man he was nice gave to charity helped people but he didnt exactly believe in god.If hes goes to hell thats very unfair and god should be ashamed of himself.It makes m angry to think that just because you dont believe in him and you do good all your life its all for nothing in the end.Thats if it all was true anyway.Maybe when we die we just die and thats it.Abit like going to sleep when not dreaming but never waking up.You wouldnt know.

[Apex]

SInce i choose not to believe in god and that means that i wont go to heaven fair enough but i dont think thats a reason to go to hell either after all its not exactly a sin or anything is it and im not being nasty.I think it would be unfair to do that.Its like bribary. if you dont believe in god then you will go to hell thats fair isnt it!

It sounds more like a deal. He will be my god if I am faithful to him. If you deny him, he will deny you.

I would like to believe that there is a god and heaven etc i really would but i find it all very hard to believe.I believe that god-good and devil-bad is in all of us.

No. We are not possessed.

My grandad was a good man he was nice gave to charity helped people but he didnt exactly believe in god.If hes goes to hell thats very unfair and god should be ashamed of himself.It makes m angry to think that just because you dont believe in him and you do good all your life its all for nothing in the end.Thats if it all was true anyway.Maybe when we die we just die and thats it.Abit like going to sleep when not dreaming but never waking up.You wouldnt know.

You are in no position to judge God.

 

You come across as one of the few people who don't know what a ghost is. I was wondering if you were going to ask for God's shoe size.

I think it is weird that you have trouble understanding how a God who created everything wouldn't have difficulty with a virgin birth. It is like saying a person can run but can't walk.

 

So you choose not to believe, but you would like to. Is this some sort of rope-a-dope? How much thought have you put into this?

[quankanne]

"rope-a-dope"? That's kind of harsh even though it's frustrating trying to explain something to someone who not only isn't on the same page, but seems to be grabbing material from other chapters of the book as she seeks information. I think for those who have a better understanding of faith and spirituality and God -- whether you accept him or not -- the questions aren't as hard because there is some kind of reference point. She does not have that point of reference, thus the questions and comments from seemingly all over the place.

 

SInce i choose not to believe in god and that means that i wont go to heaven fair enough but i dont think thats a reason to go to hell either … Its like bribary. if you dont believe in god then you will go to hell thats fair isnt it!

 

Toni, if a person don't believe in God, what should it matter to him or her what happens after that person dies? Their focus is on this plane of existence, and heaven and hell are meaningless. They have no value.

 

I would like to believe that there is a god and heaven etc i really would but i find it all very hard to believe.

 

sometimes, you've got to put away all the questions or concerns and simply trust with the faith of a child. Your baby understands and knows that you will always provide for his needs, be they changing his diapers, feeding him, keeping him safe. EVEN when you're a little old lady and he's a grown man, he's going to know that his mama will always love him so much that she'll do whatever she can to provide for him. Logic tells us that, well, he's 64, for pete's sake, he shouldn't depend on her for X, X or X, but your heart speaks differently and his understands that you will always be there for him, that you'll never turn your back on him. That's the simple faith of a child, one that carries throughout his life.

 

for a believer, this is what our faith in God is: He is a loving being who wants nothing but the best for us, who will love us no matter how awful we become, simply because we are his own true love, we are his children. As you'll find out as your little family grows, no two kids are the same, but because they are yours, you love them fiercely. Same with God when it comes to believers and non-believers: he loves us fiercely, all the same.

 

My grandad was a good man he was nice gave to charity helped people but he didnt exactly believe in god.If hes goes to hell thats very unfair and god should be ashamed of himself. It makes me angry to think that just because you dont believe in him and you do good all your life its all for nothing in the end.

 

being good is all for naught? If we lived in an isolated void, or in a society where everyone was self-sufficient, that possibly could hold true, but we don't. There are people who need our help, our time, our caring or affection, so whether or not you believe in God has no bearing on the acts of kindness or charity you perform when meeting the needs of people; being good stands on it's own, and everyone -- regardless of whether they possess a spiritual belief -- is capable of doing good.

 

as for your grandpa, it all goes back to the thought that if he didn't believe in God, what difference does it make what happens in his personal afterlife? He lived, he died, period. While he lived, though, he did his best to do good for others, and that should be enough in and of itself ....

 

not sure why God should feel shame when it's up to us to keep a relationship with him alive – he's doing his part by being a loving, forgiving God who gives copious "second chances," even when we don't feel we deserve them.

[ThumbingMyWay]

I would like to believe that there is a god and heaven etc i really would but i find it all very hard to believe.

 

read this book:

 

Case for a Creator

 

 

the author takes a scientific approach to explain Gods existance.

[Apex]

She does not have that point of reference, thus the questions and comments from seemingly all over the place.

She should know at least something about greek mythology. Don't they teach that at school?

 

I called it a rope-a-dope, and I think we are the dopes.

[quankanne]

I called it a rope-a-dope, and I think we are the dopes

 

"Ride 'em in, cut 'em out, cut 'em out, ride 'em in … ride 'em in .... Rawhide!"

 

:p sorry, that stupid song popped into my head as I read this post ...

 

all laughing aside, sometimes to get the point across you've got to dumb things so they're more easily grasped – I do it all the time when writing stories on subjects I don't fully comprehend. I see it this way: Because she's asking about a subject she's not familiar with, or unsure of, we're the "professionals" giving information (or evangelizing, if you will) about faith and God.

 

Don't they teach that at school?

 

not sure if British schools use mythology as a teaching tool. And it's been so long since my grade school days I couldn't tell you if they do in American schools. However, because the way kids learn has changed so drastically (we had to hit the books to do research, no "world-at-our-fingertips" resources like the internet avaialble), it wouldn't surprise me to see mythology not utilized as a resource ...

[ButtonPusher]

read this book:

 

Case for a Creator

 

 

the author takes a scientific approach to explain Gods existance.

Ha this books a joke.

 

One well known scientist said this....

 

"If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."

 

One implication of this being that all the other religions can not deal with a rigorous scientific examination.

Anyway, the quote was from a scientist called Albert Einstein.

[Chicana]

SInce i choose not to believe in god and that means that i wont go to heaven fair enough but i dont think thats a reason to go to hell either after all its not exactly a sin or anything is it and im not being nasty.I think it would be unfair to do that.Its like bribary. if you dont believe in god then you will go to hell thats fair isnt it!.

 

Not sure where you got the idea that if you choose not to believe you would go to Hell cuz I believe that when Christ comes again to claim his believers you would just be here on earth. You may want to read the bible to see what the predictions are for how it is going to be. And by the way not all Christians are going to rise with Jesus. Some of them will be here too, so just saying you are a Christian and trying to good isn't always enough. And if you die before he comes then maybe you would just be in purgatory-ya know kind of like limbo. But responding to your statement it won't matter will it because you don't believe. I mean you have to believe one way or the other and you say no God. So no God means no heaven which is his kingdom! I believe Hell also is biblically referenced so no hell either! It's kind of like joining a club. You don't have to join but then don't sit around all day wondering what the members get and how fair or unfair that will be to you because you didn't want to be in the club anyway. If you research the club and what it stands for and decide to walk away then that is your right and you shouldn't ponder what could have been. I mean I don't agree with some of the hate groups out there who profess their beliefs and I really don't care what will happen to them at the end of their lives because they have made their choice and I have made mine.

 

.

I would like to believe that there is a god and heaven etc i really would but i find it all very hard to believe.I believe that god-good and devil-bad is in all of us..

 

If you don't believe in God it sure is hard for me to believe that you think God is good and Devil is bad. What do you base that kind of a statement on???

 

.My grandad was a good man he was nice gave to charity helped people but he didnt exactly believe in god.If hes goes to hell thats very unfair and god should be ashamed of himself.It makes m angry to think that just because you dont believe in him and you do good all your life its all for nothing in the end.Thats if it all was true anyway.Maybe when we die we just die and thats it.Abit like going to sleep when not dreaming but never waking up.You wouldnt know.

 

Your right I wouldn't know, but my choice is that I believe that there is a God and his son Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I will find out in the end and if I was wrong all along then at least I lived my life being a good person. You shouldn't be angry and you shouldn't want God to be ashamed because you don't believe in him right?? Doing good things is never for nothing and at the very least you should be proud of your Grandad for all the good things he did.

 

I attended bible study classes when I was very young and didn't understand at all. I also spent years going to church's on holiday's and still didn't quite get it. I also attended a four year all girl catholic high school and was exposed to everything from religions of the world to morality and so much more I can't even mention. But that is where I started to form my Christian thinking. I attended catholic church only periodically and when I met my husband and moved I started going to a non denominational church where they not only referenced the bible but gave many good questions and facts on the validity of the book itslef and where it came from. I am a pretty smart person and it all started making sense to me. I made the choice for myself and am so glad I did. I also know that I am to let others know what I believe and they will have the chance to choose for themselves. I found it almost funny when one of the other postings said they were wondering if you would ask for God's shoe size next. One of my family members was questioning his belief at one time and said he wanted to know what God's favorite color was, what he liked to do to relax, and what kind of music he liked. I told him to pray for those answers and he never did let me know. I told him God loved the color clear, all kinds of music, and liked to pray for fun. Just some humor to lighten things up a bit.

 

It doesn't matter to me if you believe or not cuz I will keep trying to give you any info I have and let you know that no matter what God love's you and me too. That is what we christians do. We are supposed to because our God tells us to love everybody.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Ha this books a joke.

 

 

...thank you for your OPINION...everyone has there own way....