Is there really a god?

[newbby]

Toni

are you asking, about god or christianity?

i think much confusion is with how you define god. i think there are fundamental truths in every religion. you say you believe in science, but science has "proved" god many times. could your subconcious also be a part of god? why do you believe that one view is so separate from another? could they all be parts of the whole? look up the works of bohm.

also, when you are talking about death here you are talking about the death of the physical body. if the soul is immortal and god was a thinking entity, he surely would not view death the way that you do in the physical world.

[quankanne]

I believe that dreams are like the subconcious.You dream of things your scared of happenning and of whats happened etc..Maybe your dream was of what you heard people describe of her before or what youve read years ago.The brain is a miraculous thing sometimes you wont remember things and then you can dream about them

 

I think the opposite holds true, as well, that your mind (subconscious) works much more quickly than your perception (conscious) that in your dreams, you "see" images long before they happen. I've had it happen a couple of times, just pretty generic stuff that I know I'd never seen or done before, but it felt like deja vu; my older sister also has that happen to her. I don't think it's prophecy or anything that can be described in spiritual terminology, because the subject contents are not a kind of revelation (or discovery of some estoteric truth), but more like someone does or says a certain thing at a certain time and place wearing or doing something specific. Kinda freaky when you first realize it's happening, but then you start to think, "well, time is looped, not straightforward"

[Toni_no12002]

When has science proved there is a god?If he isnt human how can you prove hes there?

[Outcast]

Prove that love exists. Prove why aspirin works. There are plenty of things we accept and believe even though science has never been able to prove them. Not only that, but some things that science has 'proven' over the years have turned out on later study to be completely wrong. It is a mistake to think that science knows all.

[ButtonPusher]

Outcast Prove that love exists. Prove why aspirin works. There are plenty of things we accept and believe even though science has never been able to prove them.

Hmm proving love exists? Thats a tough one, proving it by contradiction ie that love doesn't exist, would make it easier but would still be a tricky proof. As for aspirin, jeez thats easy to prove. Just ask any biochemist with half a brain.

 

Not only that, but some things that science has 'proven' over the years have turned out on later study to be completely wrong. It is a mistake to think that science knows all.

No scientist with any credibility would claim that science knows everything. Science is a continuous search for knowledge, not a method of achieving omniscience.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oh_really,_now…

Because they *can* see atoms. That's what powerful microscopes are for.

 

It was actually postulated in the gold foil scattering experiment.

 

Actually Apex you can "see" atoms, by using a tunneling microscope. It seems you have an ignorance for science as well as for other spiritual beliefs (re your remarks towards the pagan chick).

 

Anyway, back to the thread issue....god told me to tell you people to stop arguing about him/her and leave this thread alone.

[newbby]

look up hammond and bohm, there are many others, there are certainly many who have tried, so to say that science is opposed to theology is not correct. the gap between science and religion is becoming smaller all the time. i suppose it does though, depend on your definition of god.

if you are talking about baby sciences such as psychology, thats quite another thing. in time though, i am sure that psychology will also catch up.

[newbby]

think of it this way, science has proven there are many dimensions, and yet we can only see 3 and experience 4. so if we have such limited capacity for experiencing, how do you expect that you will be able to see or know anything beyond the physical world as you see it?

do you really believe that humans are capable of understanding everything? do you suppose a fish believes in land?

[Apex]

Actually Apex you can "see" atoms, by using a tunneling microscope. It seems you have an ignorance for science as well as for other spiritual beliefs (re your remarks towards the pagan chick).

Let me refresh your memeory.

“Physicists say atoms are mostly empty space. How would they know something they can’t see or feel.”

 

Tunneling microscopes are used to detect the electric field of the atoms. The empty space is between the electron shells, and the nucleus of an atom.

Do you know anything about the gold foil scattering experiment? I believe it was one of the more famous experiments.

Anyway, back to the thread issue....god told me to tell you people to stop arguing about him/her and leave this thread alone.

I’m no fool, and I approach all of you with a certain level of skepticism.

There is nothing funny about heresy.

 

What is the chance that a devout “eclectic Discordian-Reconstructionist Pagan” would appear on a forum? Very low.

[Oh really, now...]

Let me refresh your memeory.

“Physicists say atoms are mostly empty space. How would they know something they can’t see or feel.”

 

Tunneling microscopes are used to detect the electric field of the atoms. The empty space is between the electron shells, and the nucleus of an atom.

Do you know anything about the gold foil scattering experiment? I believe it was one of the more famous experiments.

I’m no fool, and I approach all of you with a certain level of skepticism.

There is nothing funny about heresy.

 

What is the chance that a devout “eclectic Discordian-Reconstructionist Pagan” would appear on a forum? Very low.

Yeah, well if we're going to get that nitpicky, you can't "see" anything; you see light waves bouncing off things, not the things themselves.

 

And of course the chance of someone in *exactly* my religious groove is very low; however, there are many more Pagans in the world than you seem to realize, and most of them choose to remain in hiding precisely because of people like you who seem to be able to do nothing but insult and misunderstand Pagan religions. Frankly, your reaction to me was apalling, and I would make more of a futz about it if I wasn't so used to it already.

 

her·e·sy

n. pl. her·e·sies

An opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member.

Adherence to such dissenting opinion or doctrine.

A controversial or unorthodox opinion or doctrine, as in politics, philosophy, or science.

Adherence to such controversial or unorthodox opinion.

[Middle English heresie, from Old French, from Late Latin haeresis, from Late Greek hairesis, from Greek, a choosing, faction, from haireisthai, to choose, middle voice of hairein, to take.]

-American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

 

If I am a heretic, do you consider Muslims to be heretics? How about Buddhists? Jews? Hindus?

 

Do you believe that every religion other than Christianity is dangerous and evil? If so, there's no point talking with you on the matter until you take your religion down from its pedestal and start thinking about it critically.

[HotCaliGirl]

Its been proven that in experiments that people dream about what they have seen or heard or read of in the past.

I've been keeping a dream journal for over 10 years to analyze my dreams, which help to make sense of my life, and it is common to dream of things, some very strange, that one has not seen or heard of before, since dreams can twist reality so the results of experiments don't necessarily apply to everyone especially when there are more than one method to conduct the experiment and the scientists might be biased in one train of thought versus other camps, as is common in all fields including religion. Someone might dream of a 5 headed dog with hundreds of eyes that they had never seen or heard of in their life, and according to the experiment you refer to, they had already seen or heard of that in their awakened state.

[Oh really, now...]

The fact is, as far as I know, that dream interpretation is a very hotly contested area with very little evidence one way or another and a lot of debate. When we know so little about where dreams even come from, it seems pointless to take a strong position one way or another on them; all I know is that I have had this experience. I don't know where it came from, and that in itself does not matter nearly as much as the value the experience has had for me.

[ButtonPusher]

Let me refresh your memeory.

“Physicists say atoms are mostly empty space. How would they know something they can’t see or feel.”

 

Tunneling microscopes are used to detect the electric field of the atoms. The empty space is between the electron shells, and the nucleus of an atom.

Do you know anything about the gold foil scattering experiment? I believe it was one of the more famous experiments.

From what I remember the experiment was done at the start of the last century, and I think we have come a long way since then.

 

I’m no fool, and I approach all of you with a certain level of skepticism.

There is nothing funny about heresy.

Apex your attitude seems to be from the dark ages. If you take the time to look into other spiritual systems, you will find that you can learn something from all of them. Something that might disturb you is that christianity has some remarkable similarities to early paganism. If you don't believe me go to a library or search the web for mythical figures like osiris-dionysus, or mithras or isis. When you compare these figures to jesus it brings into question the literalist view we have of the gospels.

[Toni_no12002]

Love is a feeling just like anger and sadness.You can express these in ways take anger for example you shout and punch things.Love exists take a mothers love for her child.Or when someone dies for a loved one.That is how we know it exists.

 

God and religion isnt a feeling.Feelings are programmed into us religion is not.

 

Why will god not show himself and how come it justs happens that jesus decided to come then when he did.In thoses days people would have believed anything.Take witches in the older days.They would trhow them in some water and if they floated they would kill them and if they sunk by the time they got to the bottom they where dead anyway.People believed anything in them days so how do we know the bible isnt wrong too?

[quankanne]

it's all about faith, that "sure feeling" a person has about God, Allah, Jehovah, Yaweh, whatever name you use to address the Creator.

 

comparing days of old with our present world, man has used science to explain things which once held mystery. Germs that cause illness, harnessing of electricity, trips to outer space. One thing science hasn't done is disproved the reality or presence of God, because if you seriously consider it, you see that the two don't disprove each other no matter how badly some folks want to be so!

 

bias against witches is a result of fear and ignorance of what a witch is. Not all people who embrace that kind of "natural" religion have sold their souls to the devil, so to speak, but have gone back to a more earth-based belief, and not all are involved in hocus-pocus (for lack of a more clarifying word, so no offense meant to those who practice wicca). That fear is the same thing that is the cause of racismn and hate, being afraid of what you don't understand or what is different. If a believer understands that God has given us free will, they must also accept that not everyone is going to make the same decision to follow God, but that doesn't make the other person any less beloved of the Lord, you know?

 

Why will God not show himself and how come it justs happens that jesus decided to come then when he did

 

Christians believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament, of the beliefs held by the Jewish people, that God would send a Messiah to save them. Why did he show up when he did? Only God can answer that one. I do know that as believers we understand that we -- right here, right now -- are meant to be Christ's hands, to minister to those in need because it's what he has asked of us. And as believers, we understand that even though Christ isn't physically present in our time, we carry him in our hearts because we believe. Much in the way we carry the memory of our loved ones who died; just because they're not here with us anymore doesn't mean they aren't or never were real ....

[newbby]

so your question is, actually, does anybody believe in the christian god, or does anybody believe in the bible?

[Toni_no12002]

not exactly but having a feeling that god is here doesnt actually mean there is one.I have feelings my boyfriend doesnt find me physically attractive but as people have said that isnt always true.I know theres no evidence to prove there isnt a god but how would anyone prove that?No ones seen him and if he like in spirit its very hard to.Yes they havent proved he doesnt exist but they havent proved he does exist either.

 

I remember a film was it a christmas film where they was trying to prove santas real.In it they said that there money had god on it or something.Even though they have not proved hes real they still do it.I know its a film but im just saying that people are so quick to devote there lives to god when they dont know hes there.

[newbby]

not exactly but having a feeling that god is here doesnt actually mean there is one.I have feelings my boyfriend doesnt find me physically attractive but as people have said that isnt always true.I know theres no evidence to prove there isnt a god but how would anyone prove that?No ones seen him and if he like in spirit its very hard to.Yes they havent proved he doesnt exist but they havent proved he does exist either.

 

no but there is proof that separateness is an illusion and that everything is connected. perhaps god is everything and everything is god? we cant see these things, but if we tune in to them we can feel them and experience them.

[Apex]

not exactly but having a feeling that god is here doesnt actually mean there is one.I have feelings my boyfriend doesnt find me physically attractive but as people have said that isnt always true.I know theres no evidence to prove there isnt a god but how would anyone prove that?No ones seen him and if he like in spirit its very hard to.Yes they havent proved he doesnt exist but they havent proved he does exist either.

To my knowledge, God is not human. What would you look for, and how would you know you found him?

I remember a film was it a christmas film where they was trying to prove santas real.In it they said that there money had god on it or something.Even though they have not proved hes real they still do it.I know its a film but im just saying that people are so quick to devote there lives to god when they dont know hes there.

Have you paid attention? Some people postulate that God must exist. Some people see or experience something that proves to them the existence of God. Maybe some people always knew (innate knowledge) God existed.

[Oh really, now...]

Apex, please allow this girl to ponder without beating her over the head with your ideas. I'm not saying you shouldn't postulate your ideas to her, but please, be gentle.

[Pocky]

To the OP - You may find this book interesting - I've enjoyed reading it:

 

Seven Theories of Religion (Paperback) by Daniel L. Pals

 

 

For Tan

[quankanne]

people are so quick to devote there lives to god when they dont know hes there.

 

true, there is no hard proof. But faith doesn't need hard, cold facts or visible proof because it comes down to believing in a relationship between you and a loving God. Am I a fool for feeling this way? Possibly. But I'm okay with that, because he's mine the same as I'm his, and I can't get a higher feeling than that.

[Apex]

Apex, please allow this girl to ponder without beating her over the head with your ideas. I'm not saying you shouldn't postulate your ideas to her, but please, be gentle.

300+ posts and she is still on square one.

[Oh really, now...]

No, I don't think she's a square one at all, and you shouldn't expect someone to run off and become pious just from a message board thread. She asked to hear people's views, not to have them shoved down her throat. Message boards like this one are about helping people think over there issues, not converting them to any religion, whether it's Christianity, Paganism, or ****ing Candomble, for the Gods' sake.

 

Once again, I admire you for rooting so strongly for your beliefs. However, when you try to shove them down someone's throat, you are crossing a line.

[Oh really, now...]

people are so quick to devote there lives to god when they dont know hes there.

 

true, there is no hard proof. But faith doesn't need hard, cold facts or visible proof because it comes down to believing in a relationship between you and a loving God. Am I a fool for feeling this way? Possibly. But I'm okay with that, because he's mine the same as I'm his, and I can't get a higher feeling than that.

Really, this is very insightful. To me, it's not even of much consequence that the Divine *exists.* My relationship with God/Gods is of great value to me, and whether or not the forces that assist me in improving myself and understanding the world are real is a question that entirely misses the point.

[Toni_no12002]

Yes maybe i still am on square one but something like this is very hard to digest.Your talking about someone who no one has actually seen.Would you believe that quickly if you where me?

 

What would you look for, and how would you know you found him?

 

Exactly my point how do people know its gods work?

 

If someone in a magazine wote about a new miracle pill that made you lose weight you would want to know if it actually worked as it seemed impossible.Its exactly the same except where talking about something a whole lot bigger you cant just expect me to believe straight away can you?

 

Trust me i want to believe i really do but im abit apprehensive.