Is there really a god?

[Admiral Thrawn]

I'm sure that's it. God, instead of taking the time to save people who believe in him from natural disater or disease, takes the time to mess with my posts. Sadly, given his track record, that makes perfect sense.

 

It sounds like you are believing in God now by acknowledging that He played with your posts. A change in tone?

[Admiral Thrawn]

What is rediculous about the fact that two books in the bible give completely different lineages back to david??? The logical explanation for the difference is that there was no direct line from david to a person called jesus. The authors had to make one up because the prophesy said that the messiah would be the decendent of david.

 

Matthew dealt with a line going to Joseph, while Luke dealt with a line going through Mary. Jesus would have to have two geneologies, one from both parents (although Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, not Joseph).

 

Then perhaps you should buy a different version of the bible. It says it in the one I found, and it says it in the one used by historians who found these contradictions. I didnt go through the bible finding contradictions, I listed the well known ones that scholars have found, based on studying early manuscripts.

 

The KJV version is the most authentic English version around. It is the KJV (King James Version) bible. I would trust this version above any other of the versions out there.

 

I'm sure they are learned men of all degrees that have an opinion on both sides of the coin, and they would likely card-stack the facts in order to conform to their personal bias.

 

Here's another llittle problem with the gospels. Jesus said in a number of passages, (I will reference them later if you don't believe me), that the end of the world/second coming, would occur before some of the disciples died. We're still here, no "second coming" yet, and all those disciples are long dead. It makes sense if you take it metaphorically. Makes no sense if you take it literally.

 

Reference them. He literally said the end of the world/second coming would occur before the death of His disciples? Where?

 

If anyone else said this on LS I would assume they were joking, but with you admiral......

 

God works in mysterious ways. Even an internet glitch could be a sign of revelation of God.

[erika2610]

That's the way it is. Animals are not like us. You can see that we are quite different than they are.

 

Alright.. where are you getting this? There was a thread on whether or not animals go to Heaven.. and the answer was yes. I even quoted Psalms that said they did. They do not just die.. they go to Heaven also.

[Moai]

It sounds like you are believing in God now by acknowledging that He played with your posts. A change in tone?

 

I was being sarcastic.

[Moai]

Matthew dealt with a line going to Joseph, while Luke dealt with a line going through Mary. Jesus would have to have two geneologies, one from both parents (although Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, not Joseph).

 

Sorry, but that doesn't wash. I have been given that as a reason for the discrepancy, but nowhere does it say that. It is an ad hoc explanation to wash away a very serious contradiction.

 

Oh, and look at the reason that the Jesus Fam went to Bethlehem. It was for a census, no? Why would you require people to leave where they live, go to another town, and THEN count them? That renders any data gathered by the census meaningless. Surely people back then, who felt they needed a census, would understand that. Obviously, the "divinely inspired" author wasn't inspired to understand census taking, or what censi are for.

 

The KJV version is the most authentic English version around. It is the KJV (King James Version) bible. I would trust this version above any other of the versions out there.

 

Good for you, but most scholars disagree with you.

 

I'm sure they are learned men of all degrees that have an opinion on both sides of the coin, and they would likely card-stack the facts in order to conform to their personal bias.

 

As do you.

 

Reference them. He literally said the end of the world/second coming would occur before the death of His disciples? Where?

 

Revelatoin 1:1 uses the term "shortly". Two thousand years isn't shortly, is it? I mean, if what you believe is true the whole world was created in seven days--VERY shortly. There is another passage where it is written that Jesus will come back before "this generation passes away", and they are long since dead. I can't find it right this second (rats!), but in scanning for it I found this:

 

Revelation 20:12--And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

According to your very own book we are judged by works, not faith. There are other passages that suggest we are judged by faith. Is that not contradictory?

 

God works in mysterious ways. Even an internet glitch could be a sign of revelation of God.

 

Why would god do that, when He has so many powers at His disposal to demonstrate himself? Unless you postulate that God is an imp or a gnome or something, it is more reasonable to assume that internet glitches, etc. are caused by human error or faulty equipment.

[Moai]

That's the way it is. Animals are not like us. You can see that we are quite different than they are.

 

Animals are just like us, in more ways than they are different. We are animals, too. That's why animal testing works. We can test on mice because they are so similar to us that what effects them in a certain way will effect us that same way.

 

Alright.. where are you getting this? There was a thread on whether or not animals go to Heaven.. and the answer was yes. I even quoted Psalms that said they did. They do not just die.. they go to Heaven also.

 

So animals are more favored than humans, since all of them go to heaven, while only a few humans get to go. That's nice. Animals act according to their nature, as do we, but we are punished for it and they are not. [sarcasm]Sounds fair.[/sarcasm]

[Moai]

Work with me on this:

 

God created everything.

 

The Devil is part of everything.

 

Therefore, God created the Devil.

 

If the Devil is evil, then God cannot be entirely good because an entirely good being cannot, by definition, create evil.

 

The devil's only reason for being is to torture and persecute human beings, and deceive them so they reject God. Why would a God create a being that would work against Him--successfully in many cases, I may add. To what end? What would an omnisicent/omnipotent super being possibly gain from such a thing?

 

And let's look at another thing: The first people ate fruit from a magic tree, and so developed knowledge of good and evil. Not only that, this magic fruit was so powerful that it changed the very structure of their genes so everyone who came after had that same knowledge. I wonder if that hurt at all? Wow.

 

So, because the first two people ate the fruit from the knowledge magic tree, they would know that there was an Immortality Magic Tree and eat from that, and hence live forever. Supposedly, before they ate the magic fruit, there was no death, right? Then why even have an Immortality Magic Tree? And that implies that before eating from the Knowledge Magic Tree Adam and Eve were going to die, they just didn't know it. But so be it.

 

Fast forward a couple thousand years, and now God decides it is important to give us all a break--but He can't (or won't) do that for some reason (even though He can do anything He wants to), so He sends his kid down to get tortured and killed, and that absolves all of us from the curse of the fruit from the Magic Tree. We have to drink His blood regularly, and eat His flesh (even metaphorically) to show that we accept that, too.

 

Why is God so weird? Honestly, all of that sounds rational and real to you? Acccepting these things makes the world you see around you make sense?

 

If you read the Bible, you can see that God is definitely bi-polar, and has serious sexuality issues, to say the least. Just read Exodus. Man oh man!

 

But back to the Devil, who is watching all of this. He is developing new strains of bacteria and virul disease, causing people to commit genocide and scores of other horrible things to his fellow man, right? And all this because he was hanging out with God and got jealous (a trait God himself has, by the way). And since he was with God in all his glory and decided to split, doesn't that make the Devil retarded? If I was in Heaven (the Greatest Place Ever), I like to think I'd be smart enough to see how good I have it and relax there. Forever. But the Devil didn't. So, Heaven must either not all it is cracked up to be, or the Devil is a retard. If that is true, millions of people live in terror of a being who is, essentially, retarded.

 

And all animals go to Heaven, as they are not like us. If we are so different from animals, why do they get sick and die like we do? How does the Devil benefit from that? They go to Heaven automatically, don't they? Why waste his time torturing animals who he has no control over when there are 6 billion people for him to mess with?

 

I am amazed that in a time where men have left the Earth and walked on the Moon, where small pox has been virtually irradicated (by use of the rational mind that is the source of our curse, by the way) and umpteen other things a grown human being would actually believe this--and not a trace of irony.

[wizdom]

If you doubters are so adamit on finding out the truth why don't you study the greek and hebrew meaning then you can see what was really meant in the translated Bibles that we read now. We have to study to show ourselves approved and that means study what the original Bible was written in.

 

Second It doesn't matter what you say there is a God and he created everything. it says that a day to God is as thousand years so he has no time constraints. When you see that people you know claimed to be Chrisitans dissapear please know that we have Gone home and you are in for a rude awakening. Lucky for unbelivers God is a merciful God and if you survive the rapture you will still have a choice to except or reject Christ. I have love and compassion for unbelivers but like most people you need physical proof, but the physical PROOF that will change your mind will most likely be realized when your in hell.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Sorry, but that doesn't wash. I have been given that as a reason for the discrepancy, but nowhere does it say that. It is an ad hoc explanation to wash away a very serious contradiction.

 

The account of Mary's geneology is in Luke. The fact of the matter two seperate geneologies does not preclude the fact that each parent has a different geneology.

 

Oh, and look at the reason that the Jesus Fam went to Bethlehem. It was for a census, no? Why would you require people to leave where they live, go to another town, and THEN count them? That renders any data gathered by the census meaningless. Surely people back then, who felt they needed a census, would understand that. Obviously, the "divinely inspired" author wasn't inspired to understand census taking, or what censi are for.

 

How do you think they did the census back then, or are you disputing that a census was taken? Right now, with the election system, I have to get up and go somewhere to vote, I guess it would be nice if people went door to door and asked people to sign ballots, wouldn't you say?

 

Good for you, but most scholars disagree with you.

 

Too bad for them.

 

 

Revelatoin 1:1 uses the term "shortly". Two thousand years isn't shortly, is it? I mean, if what you believe is true the whole world was created in seven days--VERY shortly. There is another passage where it is written that Jesus will come back before "this generation passes away", and they are long since dead. I can't find it right this second (rats!), but in scanning for it I found this:

 

Acknowledged. Do you consider 2 days a short period? Because, in God's time, 2000 years may be 2 days. I'll show you a scriptural time-chart code:

 

Psalm 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."

 

The 'Generation' that Jesus has been referring to was interpreted by Benny Hinn, Grant Jeffery, and other prophetic authorities to start from the time that Israel, as a nation was re-established. They postulate that when Israel was destroyed in 70 A.D., the prophetic clock stopped ticking, so to speak, but restarted again when they became a nation. According to this theology, the end is very close since we are near the end of the generation that Israel became a nation in 1948.

 

That means, if someone was born in 1948, or the time that Israel became a nation, then technically they will see the end of the age before they die (if they live for their average lifespan). The prophecy community would speculate the end is right around the corner since the generation, that Jesus is referring to, is going to be coming to a close any time now.

 

 

Revelation 20:12--And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

According to your very own book we are judged by works, not faith. There are other passages that suggest we are judged by faith. Is that not contradictory?

 

Theologically, there are different two distinct judgements:

 

One is the Judgement Seat of Christ, where your works, as a born-again Christian believer are tried in fire to see what will remain. In general, you are rewarded for anything that you have done for the Kingdom of Christ where the motivations are by the Spirit and are pure. What type of reward, or what you will do in the new Kingdom will depend on what you did with your time, money, and your life as a whole. Salvation is not an issue in this judgement because everyone there being judged is already saved. This type of court seems like a Civil type of court.

 

That post-Millenium judgement is known as the White Throne Judgement, and it is a judgement of all sinners who have neglected or rejected Christ. This judgement is the second death, and the extent of damnation, or what type of hell would be experienced. Salvation again is not an issue in this judgement, because, only the damned are present here. This is the one mentioned in Revelation, and it is more like a Sentencing court, and the extent of damnation, or severity of it is at issue.

 

You would like me to quote from the Bible how this doctrine is supported?

[Admiral Thrawn]

Why would god do that, when He has so many powers at His disposal to demonstrate himself? Unless you postulate that God is an imp or a gnome or something, it is more reasonable to assume that internet glitches, etc. are caused by human error or faulty equipment.

 

You've raised a very, very important theological issue that is addressed as follows:

 

Quote in reference 1 Kings 19:11-13:

 

"And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount of the LORD.

And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the

mountains, and break in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD

was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was

not in the earthquake:

 

And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

 

And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him and said, What doest thou here Elijah?"

 

Do you understand that? God was in the still small voice. He was not in the earthquake, wind, thunder, lightening, or big things we associate with God revealing Himself, but in small things.

 

Jesus was born in a manger - you think He was born in Ceasar's palace being the Son of God -- of course not! That is the way it is.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Animals are just like us, in more ways than they are different. We are animals, too. That's why animal testing works. We can test on mice because they are so similar to us that what effects them in a certain way will effect us that same way.

 

This is absurd. Animals are not at all like humans other than the physical.

They cant build rockets and go to the moon, civilisations, money, or do many other things humans can do.

 

So animals are more favored than humans, since all of them go to heaven, while only a few humans get to go. That's nice. Animals act according to their nature, as do we, but we are punished for it and they are not. [sarcasm]Sounds fair.[/sarcasm]

 

I never read that animals go to heaven or hell. I thought they just died.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Work with me on this:

 

God created everything.

 

Yes.

 

The Devil is part of everything.

 

Yes.

 

Therefore, God created the Devil.

 

No. God created Lucifer who was the head Angel and highest in rank.

Lucifer thought he could take over God's throne, and actually tried to dethrone God in a heavenly coup-de-tat and was punished. He became the devil afterwards.

 

God gave all His creations FREE-WILL. This account is according to Isaiah and what Jesus said.

[d'Arthez]

The concept of free will did not exist at the time. That only arose around the 15th century.

[Admiral Thrawn]

The devil's only reason for being is to torture and persecute human beings, and deceive them so they reject God. Why would a God create a being that would work against Him--successfully in many cases, I may add. To what end? What would an omnisicent/omnipotent super being possibly gain from such a thing?

 

Adversity helps build character, and helps us to trust God. As you can see in Job, sometimes tests are allowed to see if people are truely devoted to God, or they are just putting on an act because they are blessed and circumstances are going well. The book of Job contains the most insights about what you are raising.

 

And let's look at another thing: The first people ate fruit from a magic tree, and so developed knowledge of good and evil. Not only that, this magic fruit was so powerful that it changed the very structure of their genes so everyone who came after had that same knowledge. I wonder if that hurt at all? Wow.

 

So, because the first two people ate the fruit from the knowledge magic tree, they would know that there was an Immortality Magic Tree and eat from that, and hence live forever. Supposedly, before they ate the magic fruit, there was no death, right? Then why even have an Immortality Magic Tree? And that implies that before eating from the Knowledge Magic Tree Adam and Eve were going to die, they just didn't know it. But so be it.

 

It was not an Immortality Magic tree, it was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it would kill them, and it did. I'm taking your post seriously this time, but it appears that you were jeering in this specific example.

 

Fast forward a couple thousand years, and now God decides it is important to give us all a break--but He can't (or won't) do that for some reason (even though He can do anything He wants to), so He sends his kid down to get tortured and killed, and that absolves all of us from the curse of the fruit from the Magic Tree. We have to drink His blood regularly, and eat His flesh (even metaphorically) to show that we accept that, too.

 

No, He did not just decide that. God had foreknowledge (can see into the future), and had planned this before the earth was created.

 

Why is God so weird? Honestly, all of that sounds rational and real to you? Acccepting these things makes the world you see around you make sense?

 

This makes more sence than people do. People, especially people in power in totalitarian states, are too wicked to understand.

 

If you read the Bible, you can see that God is definitely bi-polar, and has serious sexuality issues, to say the least. Just read Exodus. Man oh man!

 

You want me to take your post seriously? You are raising good points, but loose the jeering and sarcasm. Quote verse and/or fact.

[d'Arthez]

Adversity helps build character, and helps us to trust God. As you can see in Job, sometimes tests are allowed to see if people are truely devoted to God, or they are just putting on an act because they are blessed and circumstances are going well.

And why would those tests even be needed for an omniscient God? He should know - and then there is no point in testing people, for something God already knows. Or is it actually possible to deceive God?

 

If it is for the people concerned, there is no point in inventing adversity or making people highly flawed, and commanding that said subjects obey the Almighty. In fact in the history of Scripture God definitely changed - even got into unions with Man.

[Admiral Thrawn]

And why would those tests even be needed for an omniscient God? He should know - and then there is no point in testing people' date=' for something God already knows. Or is it actually possible to deceive God? [/quote']

 

It is actually for the people being tested so they know that they are true, and it may bring them into a greater awareness of God afterwards, as it did with Job.

[Bogun]

If you doubters are so adamit on finding out the truth why don't you study the greek and hebrew meaning then you can see what was really meant in the translated Bibles that we read now. We have to study to show ourselves approved and that means study what the original Bible was written in.

Have YOU studied the original manuscripts wizdom, including all the gospels conveniently left out of the modern bible? If you had you would know how DIFFERENT they are to the modern translation. The gospels left out of the bible make it clear that jesus did not teach that god is an external figure, but that "god" is a state of enlightenment (curiously similar to the eastern concept of enlightenment), and that you could "enter heaven" in your current life.

 

Second It doesn't matter what you say there is a God and he created everything.

The whole point of this tread is whether there is a god. Your belief that there is a god is based entirely on blind faith. Has god physically approached you and said "hello wizdom I am god. No your not insane, I really am god"? Has god made an appearance in the world recently? And Admiral, don't say that you can see god's presence everywhere. There is just as much proof that my neighbours dog causes it to rain as there is for saying god causes it.

 

From reading your posts admiral and the way you quote from the bible to support your points, I reckon I could pull out some passages from the bible and twist them around to show that god supports the Dallas Cowboys.

[erika2610]

Animals are just like us, in more ways than they are different. We are animals, too. That's why animal testing works. We can test on mice because they are so similar to us that what effects them in a certain way will effect us that same way.

 

 

 

So animals are more favored than humans, since all of them go to heaven, while only a few humans get to go. That's nice. Animals act according to their nature, as do we, but we are punished for it and they are not. [sarcasm]Sounds fair.[/sarcasm]

 

I don't know where you got that first quote, but it wasn't from me. I never said that. Jeez, I hate when people do that. All I said was I quoted some psalms that said animals to go to Heaven.. take it as you will.

[converse02]

If you doubters are so adamit on finding out the truth why don't you study the greek and hebrew meaning then you can see what was really meant in the translated Bibles that we read now. We have to study to show ourselves approved and that means study what the original Bible was written in.

Your God made it so people who wanted the truth have to learn two ancient languages? What an a**h***. Also, 2000 years old, most people were illiterate.

 

 

Second It doesn't matter what you say there is a God and he created everything.

It doesn't matter what you say. A pan-dimensional uber being with ultimate magical powers who enjoys the smell of roasted lamb and hates the gays he created is, shall we say, a little hard to believe.

 

 

When you see that people you know claimed to be Chrisitans dissapear please know that we have Gone home and you are in for a rude awakening. Lucky for unbelivers God is a merciful God and if you survive the rapture you will still have a choice to except or reject Christ. I have love and compassion for unbelivers but like most people you need physical proof, but the physical PROOF that will change your mind will most likely be realized when your in hell.

Rapture, hell, baseless claims. There's no physical proof of unicorns, fairies, or Santa Claus, shall I believe in those too? Life would become unlivable for me. How do people like you get jobs if you believe in all this nonsense?

[Toni_no12002]

I have a friend who likes reading about different religions.What he said does actually in a way prove that about people in those days didnt know about things very well and they didnt know about magic.

 

When moses made the water part it was supposed to be a miricale.Then how come in that very same area.My friend read that at certain times in the day the waters part enough for people to walk across.Maybe he got there at that time of day and made it look like he was perforimng a miracle when actually it wasnt.This to me seems a better explanation.

 

Maybe all the miracles in the bible where a little like this.

[Moai]

If you doubters are so adamit on finding out the truth why don't you study the greek and hebrew meaning then you can see what was really meant in the translated Bibles that we read now. We have to study to show ourselves approved and that means study what the original Bible was written in.

 

Most Bibles have notations about the original meaning of words and interpretations. The NIV is great for this. But beyond that: If God divinely inspired the origianl authors, why didn't He divinely inspire the translators? Why do I have to learn two different languages in order to understand what God is saying to me?

 

Second It doesn't matter what you say there is a God and he created everything. it says that a day to God is as thousand years so he has no time constraints.

 

You are right, it doesn't matter what I say, the existence of God is not affected by my opinion. However, I am alive in the world with senses and a brain, and using every faculty I have to interact with reality there is no evidence for a Supreme Being. So I do not believe in one. There may in fact be one, but there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that He/She/It is not the beings/beings described in the Bible. No way.

 

When you see that people you know claimed to be Chrisitans dissapear please know that we have Gone home and you are in for a rude awakening. Lucky for unbelivers God is a merciful God and if you survive the rapture you will still have a choice to except or reject Christ. I have love and compassion for unbelivers but like most people you need physical proof, but the physical PROOF that will change your mind will most likely be realized when your in hell.

 

If the Rapture ever happened, do you really think anyone remotely familiar with Christianity (actually Fundamentalism, because the Rapture is not a universal Christian belief) would doubt God at that point? I wouldn't. But it is never going to happen.

 

One thousand years for God being like the blink of an eye makes sense, as it has been 2,000 since Jesus promised to return, and you're still waiting. Maybe God should have been smart enough to take into account how we perceive time and describe His return accordingly. Why didn't He? Is He being deceptive? Or was it an oversight on His part?

 

I will give you Christians one thing, you are patient to the point of fault.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Bogun;

 

It appears that your posts in reply to wisdom, and as addressed to me reak of ignorance and a biased attitude problem, and you have name calling. It also seems that you were expecting some sort of reply from me. I do not care to respond to ignorance. I have volunteered my time to reply to your other posts because it seemed that you were bringing up reasonable points for discussion, but, I do not know what you are doing onw.

[Admiral Thrawn]

I have a friend who likes reading about different religions.What he said does actually in a way prove that about people in those days didnt know about things very well and they didnt know about magic.

 

When moses made the water part it was supposed to be a miricale.Then how come in that very same area.My friend read that at certain times in the day the waters part enough for people to walk across.Maybe he got there at that time of day and made it look like he was perforimng a miracle when actually it wasnt.This to me seems a better explanation.

 

Maybe all the miracles in the bible where a little like this.

 

It was a miracle, as I cant imagine the army of Pharoah, that came after them, stupid enough to drown themselves deliberately, right?

[Admiral Thrawn]

If the Rapture ever happened, do you really think anyone remotely familiar with Christianity (actually Fundamentalism, because the Rapture is not a universal Christian belief) would doubt God at that point? I wouldn't. But it is never going to happen.

 

It is easy to talk BEFORE-the-FACT.

[quankanne]

Rapture, hell, baseless claims. There's no physical proof of unicorns, fairies, or Santa Claus, shall I believe in those too? Life would become unlivable for me. How do people like you get jobs if you believe in all this nonsense?

 

I think if you were as strong in your convictions of unbelief, you'd have adopted a "live and let live" attitude toward these posts by believers. Instead, I get the feeling you're threatened by what you don't possess or understand, so you deal potshots like "How do people like you get jobs …." (The "duh" answer is that we land jobs based on qualifications, just like everyone else )

 

whether you believe in God or not, you enjoy the same freedom to choose your beliefs as everyone else. Get over yourself, dude.

 

When moses made the water part it was supposed to be a miricale.Then how come in that very same area.My friend read that at certain times in the day the waters part enough for people to walk across.Maybe he got there at that time of day and made it look like he was perforimng a miracle when actually it wasnt.This to me seems a better explanation. Maybe all the miracles in the bible where a little like this.

 

I think you're very much on the right track here, kiddo. The real miracle is that this huge group of people made it to the river at that very time they needed to be there, then safely moved across it as they tried to outrun their oppressors. Can you imagine how good that timing had to be, especially since there wasn't anything like television of sophisticated weather devices to tell them what to expect or when to be there? Just thinking about the logistics involved, and executing so that things worked out was miraculous in itself.

 

a couple of years ago, I read a sermon published by a priest, who was talking about the Bible story of the fishes and loaves that Jesus multiplied from just a handful of bread and fish to feed thousands of people. This priest said that realistically speaking, there were no smoke and mirrors involved, but probably that people there brought sack lunches because they knew they were going to be spending the day out and about. Now, he said, was that these thousands of people who toted their sack lunches were from different places, and were suspicious of those they didn't know ~ the real miracle that took place was that these folks shared with strangers and lost their suspicion of them because back then you just didn't do that.

 

I think that a lot of these miracles of the Bible, when taken in the context of what was happening socially and historically of that time period, take on a whole new meaning when you think about it, so when you say that "maybe the all the miracles of the Bible were a little bit like this," you've hit on something very, very profound.