Is there really a god?

[Admiral Thrawn]

Yet you persist in dismissing plenty of anecdotical evidence which served to prove Bush's stupidity. You can't dismiss that evidence and claim that the evidence of beliefs you support must necessarily point to the truth.

 

No, I'm dismissing the deragatory tone of the use of idiot and stupid. Many people agree with Bush too, that is why he got elected, and why they have a democracy, right?

 

Last time I checked, that is not true. But to each his own.

 

Check John 3:16 again.

 

Seems perfectly applicable to you. We have brought up so many contradictions in the "flawless Bible" yet you keep persistently ignoring all that, and come up with flaky arguments at best.

 

You keep coming up with cow dung not contradictions.

 

You are getting angry, because I get fed up with the fact that you are consistently avoiding the points I bring up? And another suggestion: It would help if your spelling was a bit better, as it is hard to make out at times what you are even writing, let alone suggesting what your position is.

 

I'm getting angry?

 

Yet you persist in your own ignorance by discarding tons of anecdotical evidence that suggests Bush is an idiot - which by virtue of it being there is already proven said fact true, by your own logic.

 

Bush got elected. America is a democracy. Bush is justified in whatever he does because the majority accepted him for a second tenure. That is enough ancedontal evidence to support Bush is not an idiot in my books.

 

He was smart enough to manipulate the system to get elected in the first place. The fact that he is in power, shows that he is a very smart man.

 

 

Let me help you writing that library. A book does not proof a thing. Such a fake experiment does not prove a thing. As does anecdotical evidence. Those are the basics of science, whether you like it or not.

 

Well, it may not prove a thing to you, but then again, nothing can prove anything to you. Guess you dont fly that often.

 

Just do what I ask. You will see it is impossible to do such a simple act completely conscious. Just try it.

 

Right, and do what I say, read the Gospel of John.

 

It is obvious. Christ did not come. By your own logic, as you applied it to Marxism, I have disproven Christianity.

 

Your ignorance is obvious. God looks at your heart more than what you are saying. By the tone of your post, it doesn't sound like you were sincere, but are being sarcastic about the whole thing. Fact is, not only do you not believe, you are not even open to believing. God only responds to faith, not unbelief.

 

This is monumental. Are you saying that because we have courts, free will must necessarily exist?

 

Or you have anarchy in the absence of free-will. That means, anyone can commit murder and say they have no free-will, and therefore did not do it.

That is absurd.

 

 

There is no conclusive proof anarchy does not work. Therefore it should also be taught in schools.

 

Yeah, among ducks maybe, but humans need government, or the strong will just take advantage of the weak.

 

 

Stupid? Why? Because you are unable to do so?

 

No, because it is stupid.

 

 

Ease your self? With your views, it is ascertained that 99.93 percent of the world population is without hope.

 

No, that you are ignorant. Do you, as Moai, just believe the natural world is the only world that exist?

 

You are attributing reasons to people that are not established at all.

Of course there is more than scientific knowledge.

 

Well, Moai doesn't seem to think so. I guess you had initially replied to a post that was directed as a reply to Moai's post. So, you agree then, that there is more than just the 'natural world'?

 

So you are sinning for believing in paranormality? Now that that is established, I would suggest to you: "Go, and sin no more."

 

No, I'm sinning by making fried duck for dinner, and guess who I'll be cooking.

 

Denial? Yes. I'd rather choose to live elsewhere than to convert to these particular beliefs.

 

Like hell?

 

I have an interest in mental health. So I am curious as to why people "choose" to believe what they believe, and how they rationalize / justify their beliefs.

 

So am I.

 

Yes. But there are a billion Muslims, and hundreds of millions of Buddhists as well. It is not about placing bets on a number of people, based on the false belief that so many people can't be wrong.

 

No, but it seems like you are portraying my interpretation of the KJV as though my own interpretation to the Bible is a private one with no corrobating belief in the Christian world.

 

Shucks. Can happen. I'd rather stick to a version of Christianity that is compassionate towards the unbeliever.

 

And compassion involves the truth. Nothing can be more compassionate than a Holy God taking a human form, and dying for everyone, including yourself, so that by simple faith, we be made right with God.

 

I did, but he did not come. And with that, according to your own logic, I have defeated the belief in this version of Christianity as true.

 

Well, you did not believe, call out to Him like you need help out of a jam that you cant get yourself out of, be sincere. But, I understand, such can only be done when you are ready, and when you are under conviction of the Holy Spirit that you need Jesus Christ in your life.

 

.

[converse02]

And compassion involves the truth. Nothing can be more compassionate than a Holy God taking a human form, and dying for everyone, including yourself, so that by simple faith, we be made right with God.

 

How exactly is getting executed by Romans "dying for our sins?"

If an all-powerful God wanted to forgive our sins, why didn't he just do it? Why didn't he just snap his fingers or something?

It's like you guys are trying to impress me by telling me your God is judge, jury, and execution victim.

 

Your God didn't die for our sins because he's supposely still alive.

And how can a all-knowing, all-powerful being POSSIBLY get hurt? He probably didn't even feel getting executed, he's God. And he rose again. It probably was like a three day vacation.

 

Lastly, how can an innocent person die for the guilty, it's injustice. Why don't you die for your own sins instead of dumping them on someone else all the time. Take responsibily for your evil foul actions!!!

[HotCaliGirl]

The point is, you can not conclusively show any contradictions in the Bible.

I took a class on comparative religion taught by a well known Harvard professor while in college. He pointed out dozens of contradictions throughout the bible, acknowledged by scholars around the world. I have many of the passages and contradictions highlighted and underlined and when I point them out to extremists like you who think they know everything when it comes to religious matters, they bite their tongue.

 

So what exactly is your point? Also, in the 19th century many manuscripts of books not included in the bible were discovered and also there was a rise of bible scholarship pointing out to the many defects found in the King James Version to the point that the bible was revised, but of course not perfected since there still exist many contradictions, starting in Genesis, to this day. Different writing styles can be identified, with contradictions from the various authors, as they are pasted together from various sources in an attempt to make a cohesive story. That I thought was common knowledge but I guess not everyone is educated in the subject matter they so passionately argue about.

[Bogun]

I took a class on comparative religion taught by a well known Harvard professor while in college. He pointed out dozens of contradictions throughout the bible, acknowledged by scholars around the world. I have many of the passages and contradictions highlighted and underlined and when I point them out to extremists like you who think they know everything when it comes to religious matters, they bite their tongue.

 

So what exactly is your point? Also, in the 19th century many manuscripts of books not included in the bible were discovered and also there was a rise of bible scholarship pointing out to the many defects found in the King James Version to the point that the bible was revised, but of course not perfected since there still exist many contradictions, starting in Genesis, to this day. Different writing styles can be identified, with contradictions from the various authors, as they are pasted together from various sources in an attempt to make a cohesive story. That I thought was common knowledge but I guess not everyone is educated in the subject matter they so passionately argue about.

Pointed out some of the big contradictions a few pages back. Didn't get anywhere. They either ignored the posts, or came up with lame arguments.

[Toni_no12002]

If id known this would turn into a big arguement i would have never started the post.

[d'Arthez]

No, I'm dismissing the deragatory tone of the use of idiot and stupid. Many people agree with Bush too, that is why he got elected, and why they have a democracy, right?

And many people do not believe in haunted houses too. The point is, anecdotal evidence proofs squat.

 

You keep coming up with cow dung not contradictions.

Have you already done the math on your outrageous claims? We would almost be able to swim in the air, if it were true.

 

Bush got elected. America is a democracy. Bush is justified in whatever he does because the majority accepted him for a second tenure. That is enough ancedontal evidence to support Bush is not an idiot in my books.

And what I described serves as enough evidence in the books of many, to describe haunted houses and other paranormal experiences as non-existant. The point is? Anecdotal evidence does not prove a thing.

 

Well, it may not prove a thing to you, but then again, nothing can prove anything to you. Guess you dont fly that often.

If I do, it is at least not by flapping my arms. Anecdotal evidence suggests that that is possible. Therefore it must be true

 

Your ignorance is obvious.

Coming from you, that is a compliment.

 

God looks at your heart more than what you are saying. By the tone of your post, it doesn't sound like you were sincere, but are being sarcastic about the whole thing. Fact is, not only do you not believe, you are not even open to believing. God only responds to faith, not unbelief.

Again, you are speaking for God. Last time I checked foreknowledge is not an attribute that can be ascribed to man.

Then God should be unable to condemn me to hell. If not, he does respond to unbelief. I do not believe in your version of Christianity. Which is not a sin at all, but a virtue.

 

That means, anyone can commit murder and say they have no free-will, and therefore did not do it.

That is even more advanced than your argument about Matthew / Levi, and no this does not apply to anarchy - albeit that I can well imagine that ignorant people who know nothing about political theory can claim that.

That is absurd.

Yes, if you are misrepresenting the facts and the theories consistently, you tend to end up with absurd conclusions. It is the same as I did, but I simply followed your assumptions. If your assumptions lead to insane conclusions, the problem is not with the conclusions, but with the assumptions.

 

Yeah, among ducks maybe, but humans need government, or the strong will just take advantage of the weak.

Humans need government? That is debateable. But your argument does not hold, as the strong certainly take advantage of the weak already.

 

No, because it is stupid.

Stupid? Why? Are you just unable to do so? You cannot prove a simple thing like that. Especially if you believe in God, it is even harder to come up with arguments that disprove that possibility.

 

No, that you are ignorant.

According to your definition, everyone who does not agree with you is ignorant. Therefore, I take pride in your labeling me as such.

 

Do you, as Moai, just believe the natural world is the only world that exist?

Yes, otherwise I would sin according to you, in that regard. The label of ignorance you are giving me is a burden I must accept.

 

No, I'm sinning by making fried duck for dinner, and guess who I'll be cooking.

A duck with person-status? Who could that be. I do not know of such a duck.

 

Like hell?

Yes.

 

So am I.

False beliefs, and claiming the outrageous is true is not a sign of mental health. For the latter magical thinking seems to be closer to the truth.

 

No, but it seems like you are portraying my interpretation of the KJV as though my own interpretation to the Bible is a private one with no corrobating belief in the Christian world.

A few people agree, most of the Christians disagree with your interpretation. But of course, everyone who is not convinced of the immaculate truth as portrayed in the KJV does not deserve the label Christian at all . If you define the population who can make sensible contributions to the debate solely to the people who are in agreement with you, you are proving exactly nothing.

 

And compassion involves the truth.

True. But then again, as apparently do not need a truthful reason to reject Reason, that cannot apply anymore.

 

Nothing can be more compassionate than a Holy God taking a human form, and dying for everyone, including yourself, so that by simple faith, we be made right with God.

That is interpretation, of events of which we do not even know whether or not they took place.

And the majority disagrees, and has anecdotal evidence of the existence of Buddha, Allah, or Vishnu. Therefore, they must exist by virtue of your own logic. Which is again, contrary to Christian beliefs.

 

Well, you did not believe, call out to Him like you need help out of a jam that you cant get yourself out of, be sincere. But, I understand, such can only be done when you are ready, and when you are under conviction of the Holy Spirit that you need Jesus Christ in your life.

Still he did not come. Therfore, your interpretation is flawed.

 

And if you expect me to put up decent arguments, please do so yourself first.

[d'Arthez]

If id known this would turn into a big arguement i would have never started the post.

Toni, the arguments are always inevitable, when people start to argue about matters like this. It is nothing personal, nor a conscious attempt for any of the debating people to walk away with your thread.

[Moai]

Nah....it doesn't suck for me at all....It just doesn't matter to me. So, since it doesn't matter to me, how could they be the only community that matters. It ONLY matters to you. Period.

 

Actually, it DOES matter to you. When you get sick, you want the best medicine available, don't you? When you need to take your car to the store, you don't want it to explode when you turn the key, do you? Science is all around you everywhere. And understanding biology and how humans fit into nature is the only way you can make rational decisions in relation to it.

 

Whatever you say....Science has proven itself wrong over, and over, and over, and over again. AND will continue to do so. Science is man made, is far from perfect.

 

You are correct, science is not perfect, but it is by far the best tool we have to understand the world around us. And science has certainly been wrong. That is science's strength, not its weakness. It is not dogmatic. When evidence suggests that previously held notions are incorrect, science adapts and changes to fit the new model.

 

That being said, for 150 years evolution has been under constant scrutiny and testing. And it has held up every single time. The only model we have that is superior is in the field of Quantum Mechanics. In a way, we understand the atomic world better than we do the one we see everyday.

 

I'm not willing to bet my soul on something so imperfect.HEY, I don't care what you think about my ideas. TO me, they are truth. Sure, I'd like for all to believe the same as I, but that's just not going to happen.

 

Science has nothing ot do with your soul. You want to take your religion and push into the arena of science (hence Creationism), but Creationism isn't science, nor is your religion.

 

The difference between you and I, is that I can let go of your ignorance, and have hope that someday you'll see things differently. While you cling to mine and continue to TRY, I said, TRY to make me look stupid or something.

 

I don't have to try to make you look stupid, you do that just fine on your own. You have already shown that you don't even understand gravity, or even simple biology, or even how science works.

 

I know about the evolution, THEORY, I know a little about biology. I know about all of these experiments, DNA, data being collected.....IT JUST DOESN"T MATTER TO ME!!!!

 

If it doesn't matter, then why do you care if Creationism is taught in school or not? And judging by your posts you don't know anything about biology, or current evolutionary theory.

 

When you and your SCIENTIFIC community can create life from absolutely NOTHING.....then I might perk up with interest. Until then........

 

We have created self-replicating RNA in a labratory environment.

 

Oh.....and about my education.....yes, I'm a college graduate, and it's none of your friggin' business where I went.

 

I don't get off on comparing brain pans....I have my wife and family, and I don't owe anybody ANYTHING......there's also no doubt in my mind that I'm better off than you and your, "knowledge" of biology......

 

Get upset all you want, but I would go back to whatever college you went to and ask for your money back. Why are you embarassed about where you went to school? The knowledge I have of biology is free to anyone with a library card. It isn't like I am special or unique in being aware of this, I just took the time to read it. It isn't a secret, and most of it is rather simple to grasp.

 

Sadly, you AREN'T better off than I, since I understand basic science I am better prepared to make judgements about my family's health and well-being than are you.

 

Because I don't automatically accept anecdotal evidence, I am less likely to be fooled by the next snake oil salesman that comes down the pike, or trust a charlatan with my finances and my family's future.

[a4a]

Duh, maybe they came from Dinosaurs?

 

 

 

Duh, how to people get animals into zoos?

 

 

 

 

Not a dumb question at all.... there are bones from dinosaurs..... were dinosaurs just a mistake made by you god......? Changed his mind about letting them live on earth? Man has no relation to primates? explain why "humanoid fossils" have been found........or are these aliens?

 

Lets see they do not put thousands of different species on one little wood boat........ what would they eat on such a long trip? Not a stupid question at all..... or are you too stupid to answer this?

 

Funny the name Thrawn means "twisted or crooked" seems to fit as you twist things quite a bit.

 

a4a

[a4a]

If id known this would turn into a big arguement i would have never started the post.

 

Of course it will start an arguement. I can only speak for myself on this.

I could care less what people want to worship or believe, until they attempt to force their beliefs onto me and take my "free will" away by turning their beliefs into "law".

 

I do not think that they would be so happy if lets say the buddist or muslims were to do this to them. It is a shame they cannot be more god like and allow "free will".

 

I have yet to come to an understanding why it is so important to convince us non believers that their is a god. What is the point? Perhaps they think they will get more brownie points with god..... kinda odd though, thought you just had to really believe and you could not earn your way to heaven.

 

It is almost hysterical that they waste so much energy doing so. Perhaps satan is working through us non believers, using us to distract them while he is busy working on the big plan elsewhere?

 

Also I do not understand but again find it funny; if heaven is so wonderful why not get there asap? Why go to doctors to continue to live, why slam feeding tubes into people, why try to save a life? Is this god not calling them home? If there was a heaven and people were so damn sure about it I would think that death would be so welcome. And if you so believed in this god and you were so good you would not fear judgement day at all.

 

a4a- I am busy today studying witchcraft and becoming a lesbian.

[Moose]

Actually, it DOES matter to you. When you get sick, you want the best medicine available, don't you?

That's what I pay our Doctor for. He spent his money for schooling in the field he chose, to ensure my family does get the best care.

 

When your family gets sick, do you have the capability to prescribe your own medicines or something? Or do you debate with the Doctor when he hands you a perscription because it's something that you don't recommend?

 

Your arguement for me to know biology on a different level than I do now doesn't make sense.

When you need to take your car to the store, you don't want it to explode when you turn the key, do you?

Nobody but me works on my cars! Especially the Lambo kits.

 

If one of my newer vehicles break down, it's usually under warranty. If it pisses me off enough, I'll take it back to the dealer and buy a new one. No big deal.

And understanding biology and how humans fit into nature is the only way you can make rational decisions in relation to it.

I told you before, I know what I need to know. I'm not out to prove anyone I know more than them......you might be, but hey.....to each is own.

science adapts and changes to fit the new model

That's my whole problem. I don't care to fill my head with stats, data, and numbers just to have to go back and do all over again. I prefer to understand that God is the only one who knows exactly what transpired, and when He gets the chance, I'm sure He'll explain to me how the fossils, bones, and all that carbon dating all fooled mere man.

You have already shown that you don't even understand gravity, or even simple biology, or even how science works.

I don't see how you gathered that. I never posted anything on the subject. You have no clue what I know about the subjects. You're just picking fights.

If it doesn't matter, then why do you care if Creationism is taught in school or not?

If both creationism and evolution is theory, why should one be taught, and not the other? Both should be taught, as THEORY.

We have created self-replicating RNA in a labratory environment.

I bet you that was fun, how long did it take you, where did you hold the experiment? Who worked with you? Wait....."we", as in the scientific community.....not you.....got it. Well....RNA is nowhere near life. Besides, they didn't start off with absolutely nothing. They made RNA with acid or something like that if I remember right.

Get upset all you want, but I would go back to whatever college you went to and ask for your money back. Why are you embarassed about where you went to school?

I wasn't upset, it's just none of your business where I went. I went on a scholarship, so it's impossible to get my money back. Besides, they did a great job.....7 figures a year.....don't worry, my family and I are pretty safe from the snake oil man.....

[Admiral Thrawn]

If id known this would turn into a big arguement i would have never started the post.

 

What are you talking about? Cant you see what rich perspectives you are learning from these threads. There is nothing like a real adversarial spirit to bring out points of fact or truth in the spirit of competition.

[Moai]

That's what I pay our Doctor for. He spent his money for schooling in the field he chose, to ensure my family does get the best care.

 

A doctor who understands biology and evolution. Moreover, since you want to hamper science education by teaching Creationism--a waste of time and resources--you WON'T get as good medical care as you would otherwise. It is precisely because of cranks who don't understand science that our children lag far behind the children in other cultures.

 

When your family gets sick, do you have the capability to prescribe your own medicines or something? Or do you debate with the Doctor when he hands you a perscription because it's something that you don't recommend?

 

Actually, I can't prescribe medicine, but I do understand how drugs work, what different types of drugs there are, and that there are many different ways to treat most maladies. And yes, i ask my doctor informed questions and I seek second opinions. I know that cough medicine doesn't do anything, yet ignorant Americans spend billions of dollars a year on them.

 

I know that homeopathy is pseudoscience, and yet millions of ignorant Americans drop billions on this, too. How do I know this? Because I understand biology.

 

It is interesting that you trust sceince when it suits you and helps you, but reject it when that very same science butts up against your superstitions.

 

Your arguement for me to know biology on a different level than I do now doesn't make sense.Nobody but me works on my cars! Especially the Lambo kits.

 

Biology is about living organisms, not automobiles or refrigerators.

 

If one of my newer vehicles break down, it's usually under warranty. If it pisses me off enough, I'll take it back to the dealer and buy a new one. No big deal.I told you before, I know what I need to know. I'm not out to prove anyone I know more than them......you might be, but hey.....to each is own.That's my whole problem. I don't care to fill my head with stats, data, and numbers just to have to go back and do all over again. I prefer to understand that God is the only one who knows exactly what transpired, and when He gets the chance, I'm sure He'll explain to me how the fossils, bones, and all that carbon dating all fooled mere man.

 

How nice that you are so anti-science. You and your pals the Taliban make a great team. The type of thinking you describe is what holds men back and keeps them ignorant. If others thought as you do, the average life span in this country would still be about 40. Great.

 

To imply that the fossil record and dating methods somehow "fool" people is to imply that God allowed fossils to develop, made carbon-14 decay at a steady, measurable rate (as well as other isotopes that can date much older things) all in order to mislead people. To what end? That is absolutely nonsensical. The fact is, the more we understand science, the smaller your superstitions have to get. I can see how that would make you angry and feel foolish, but that doesn't mean we should stop studying things.

 

And understanding biology or any other science isn't filling your head with "stats." It is understanding the world around you, and preparing yourself to better interact with it. That is why it is required in school, and people aren't considered educated unless they understand it.

 

I don't see how you gathered that. I never posted anything on the subject. You have no clue what I know about the subjects. You're just picking fights.If both creationism and evolution is theory, why should one be taught, and not the other? Both should be taught, as THEORY.

 

Yes, I do know what you know about subjects. You specifically said I need to read more when I posted the fact that we can't explain gravity, which shows you don't understand gravity. You think evolution is just a "theory" when it is a fact and the "theory" explains the fact that we see. And you think that Creationism is on a par with evolution (or any other aspect of science) which shows that you do not understand science in even a basic way. I know all of these things based on what you yourself have posted.

 

I bet you that was fun, how long did it take you, where did you hold the experiment? Who worked with you? Wait....."we", as in the scientific community.....not you.....got it. Well....RNA is nowhere near life.

 

Actually, RNA is very near life. It self-replicates, and is subject to mutation, so in the most basic sense it is, in fact, alive. And I refer to "we" as in human beings. I didn't perform the experiment, but I can read basic English and can read the results. It wasn't a secret.

 

Why is it you Fundamentalists constantly change the rules? First, it was "man cannot create life". When we do, you say, "well, it didn't come from absolutely nothing". It would be impossible to create something from nothing, since there is stuff here.

 

Beyond that, evolution is what happens once life is here. The study of abiogenesis addresses how life began. They are two seperate fields.

 

Besides, they didn't start off with absolutely nothing. They made RNA with acid or something like that if I remember right.I wasn't upset, it's just none of your business where I went. I went on a scholarship, so it's impossible to get my money back. Besides, they did a great job.....7 figures a year.....don't worry, my family and I are pretty safe from the snake oil man.....

 

I doubt it. And they didn't make RNA with acid. I doubt you are even aware of the experiment. The amount of money you make is irrelevant to how educated you are. If in fact you make as much as you say you do, you make more than any professor on the planet, and yet they are vastly more educated than you.

 

And I sincerely hope that you can avoid the pitfalls of accepting anecdotal evidence for things, and that your superstitions are held at bay enough to not give your money to liars, but time will tell.

[Moose]

I'm done with Moai.

 

Nothing will get through to you. You keep twisting things around just to cause an arguement.

 

I don't appreciate people like you.

[Admiral Thrawn]

It must've been brillant for God to have his message in a book, written in three languages, especially 2000 years ago when the majority of the people couldn't read and the printing press wasn't invent yet.

 

That is why you have translations. Furthermore, people wrote back then and passed letters around.

 

Christians all say you have to have the magical "Holy Spirit" in order to understand the Bible. However, you rarely can find two Christians inhibited by the same Holy Spirit. Even Christians cannot agree what the Bible really means, which is why the religion has thousand of denominations.

 

Virtually most Protestant demonations believe in the same fundamental truth about salvation and being born-again. Many, many Believers have this same Spirit, however, how Christians choose, on a daily basis to yield their lives to this Spirit is a matter of individual choice.

 

Furthermore, even some Catholics, have the Spirit illuminating truths about Jesus Christ because, as apostate as that church may be, it still about Jesus Christ, and something is bound to rub off even with Catholics.

 

The Bible is a collection of myths written by primitive men long ago who tried to make sense of a world without science and education, as likely to be from the Universal Over-mind as Zeus on Mt. Olympius.

 

I dont think so. It is a collection of historical fact, explains spiritual concepts and doctrines, and most of all, reveals Jesus Christ - Genesis - Revelation. Prophecies which it has predicted have come to pass.

 

The bottom line is if you want to view the Bible as a myth, then, that is probably as you will see it, because you are not approaching it with an open-mind or a level-head. You have already made up your mind about it - probably without even reading it.

[Admiral Thrawn]

How exactly is getting executed by Romans "dying for our sins?"

 

It shows the seriousness and gravity about judgement of sin. That's why, one of the worst forms of execution and torture - if not *the* worst, was choosen for the Son of God.

 

Jesus had prayed in the Garden of Gethsemanie, and asked Father to let this cup pass if it were possible. He would only go through with it if it was absolutely necessary to purge the sins of the world, and there was no other way.

 

If an all-powerful God wanted to forgive our sins, why didn't he just do it? Why didn't he just snap his fingers or something?

 

Because God is absolutely just and sin has to be dealt with in some way.

The reality of sin is dealt with on the cross of Jesus Christ. It is dealt in that way, or it is dealt on the head of a sinner.

 

In the Old Testament, those who broke the laws were to be stoned to death without mercy. Sin is death. Sin means eternal punishment. Sin has to be dealt on either your head, or on the cross of Jesus Christ.

 

It's like you guys are trying to impress me by telling me your God is judge, jury, and execution victim.

 

That is what the Bible says. However, even if one is saved, there is still a judgement for the works that are done in this life. While there is no risk of damnation in that type of judgement, it will determine what type of rewards and crowns one would have in heaven.

 

Your God didn't die for our sins because he's supposely still alive.

 

He rose from the dead after the Third day.

 

And how can a all-knowing, all-powerful being POSSIBLY get hurt?

 

He temporarily took on human form and thus limited his powers for a span of approximately 33 years.

 

He probably didn't even feel getting executed, he's God. And he rose again. It probably was like a three day vacation.

 

The movie "The Passion", and as based on Bible text, accurately shows what He went through. In fact, before the execution, Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsememy to the Father that this execution be passed - that if it was at all possible to save people apart from the cross - that this is passed.

 

This means, Jesus didn't want to do this, unless it was absolutely necessary to save you, me, and everyone else. The Garden of Gethsemeny prayer proves that there is no other salvation apart from the Cross.

 

Lastly, how can an innocent person die for the guilty, it's injustice. Why don't you die for your own sins instead of dumping them on someone else all the time. Take responsibily for your evil foul actions!!!

 

That would mean everyone would go to hell. Your assertions are correct.

However, God loves everyone to the extent that He simply decided to do this.

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotton Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

[Admiral Thrawn]

I took a class on comparative religion taught by a well known Harvard professor while in college. He pointed out dozens of contradictions throughout the bible, acknowledged by scholars around the world. I have many of the passages and contradictions highlighted and underlined and when I point them out to extremists like you who think they know everything when it comes to religious matters, they bite their tongue.

 

I ain't biting my tongue. In fact, the people who have raised points of contradiction have bitten their tongue and cry sour grapes when I raise an explanation.

 

So what exactly is your point?

 

My point is the Bible is the best way to understand God. It is simply a perfect revelation of who God is, and what His purposes are for humanity.

[Admiral Thrawn]

So what exactly is your point? Also, in the 19th century many manuscripts of books not included in the bible were discovered and also there was a rise of bible scholarship pointing out to the many defects found in the King James Version to the point that the bible was revised, but of course not perfected since there still exist many contradictions, starting in Genesis, to this day. Different writing styles can be identified, with contradictions from the various authors, as they are pasted together from various sources in an attempt to make a cohesive story. That I thought was common knowledge but I guess not everyone is educated in the subject matter they so passionately argue about.

 

Oh, and by the way, I've studied up on it. The KJV is the most accurate interpretation there is. Your professors are basing their knowledge on the corrupt Alexandrian/Greek texts that the Roman Catholic church has used. This is a Jesuit conspiracy to bring back those corrupt Greek texts, and those who are teaching you are part of that conspiracy.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Pointed out some of the big contradictions a few pages back. Didn't get anywhere. They either ignored the posts, or came up with lame arguments.

 

No you rejected my explanations - you never raised any real contradictions.

[Moai]

I'm done with Moai.

 

Nothing will get through to you. You keep twisting things around just to cause an arguement.

 

I don't appreciate people like you.

 

I apoligize if that is how you view my posts, but I am not here to be specifically contentious. I am not trying to "twist things around' to cause arguments, I am just responding to what you yourself have said.

 

Moreover, it is you who used terms like ignorant to describe me, which is deraogatory and prejorative to say the least. If reading that caused me to raise the heat of my posts toward you, I apologize.

 

I can only read what you have written. For example, when you mentioned to me that I should study more, I provided you with a link demonstrating what is, in fact, accurate vis a vis my post. While I didn't take that statement of yours as an insult, I certainly could have, especailly considering that I was correct.

 

I think that anyone reading this thread with an open mind will see that it was not my intent to intentionally misinterpret what you have written just to be mean-spirited, but if that is not the case the error is mine and I again apologize.

[Admiral Thrawn]

And many people do not believe in haunted houses too. The point is, anecdotal evidence proofs squat.

 

I do not see that as a valid point. Just because not every single person has experienced a 'haunted house' does not mean such does not exist. Just some people have to experience it.

 

If I do, it is at least not by flapping my arms. Anecdotal evidence suggests that that is possible. Therefore it must be true

 

Evidence is evidence.

 

Again, you are speaking for God. Last time I checked foreknowledge is not an attribute that can be ascribed to man.

Then God should be unable to condemn me to hell. If not, he does respond to unbelief. I do not believe in your version of Christianity. Which is not a sin at all, but a virtue.

 

And, why do you think you should be entitled to go to heaven?

 

Stupid? Why? Are you just unable to do so? You cannot prove a simple thing like that. Especially if you believe in God, it is even harder to come up with arguments that disprove that possibility.

 

No, because I dont have to do anything you are saying. Why dont you go and fly a kite? See, you dont have to do everything I am saying either.

 

According to your definition, everyone who does not agree with you is ignorant. Therefore, I take pride in your labeling me as such.

 

There you go twisting words again.

 

Yes, otherwise I would sin according to you, in that regard. The label of ignorance you are giving me is a burden I must accept.

 

What are you talking about?

 

A duck with person-status? Who could that be. I do not know of such a duck.

 

You choose your avatar.

 

False beliefs, and claiming the outrageous is true is not a sign of mental health. For the latter magical thinking seems to be closer to the truth.

 

See, I'm not misinterpretating anything you are saying - right out from the horses mouth here. You think people are mentally insane or delusional who think differently than you do - that is why you label them with fanciful terms as schiphonphranea, or wahtever..... so there is no point denying this now to try to make yourself look good.

 

 

A few people agree, most of the Christians disagree with your interpretation.

 

I dont think so.

 

But of course, everyone who is not convinced of the immaculate truth as portrayed in the KJV does not deserve the label Christian at all . If you define the population who can make sensible contributions to the debate solely to the people who are in agreement with you, you are proving exactly nothing.

 

I think that really applies to you though.

 

True. But then again, as apparently do not need a truthful reason to reject Reason, that cannot apply anymore.

 

What are you talking about?

 

That is interpretation, of events of which we do not even know whether or not they took place.

 

Which you dont know whether it took place or not.

 

And the majority disagrees, and has anecdotal evidence of the existence of Buddha, Allah, or Vishnu. Therefore, they must exist by virtue of your own logic. Which is again, contrary to Christian beliefs.

 

I'm talking about experience, not religious belief.

 

 

Still he did not come. Therfore, your interpretation is flawed.

 

I can see that you were not sincere or genuine. You have the wrong attitude.

 

And if you expect me to put up decent arguments, please do so yourself first.

 

Quack, Quack.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Not a dumb question at all.... there are bones from dinosaurs..... were dinosaurs just a mistake made by you god......?

 

Obviously, this is probably the order of things before the fall of Lucifer.

 

Changed his mind about letting them live on earth? Man has no relation to primates? explain why "humanoid fossils" have been found........or are these aliens?

 

I guess He decided to have more tame animals for the human creation. Primates - have often been mixed up and confused with other things or different animal skeletons, inaccurate carbon dating techniques, etc... there are plenty of holes.

 

 

Lets see they do not put thousands of different species on one little wood boat........ what would they eat on such a long trip? Not a stupid question at all..... or are you too stupid to answer this?

 

If God provided manna on the desert for the Israelites, or if Jesus multiplied a couple of fishes and a few loaves of bread to feed five thousand people, dont you think God would also have a miracolous solution to this too? Come on!

 

Funny the name Thrawn means "twisted or crooked" seems to fit as you twist things quite a bit.

a4a

 

Of course, you cant help but resort to personal attacks. I'm doing you a favour by replying to your message, maybe I'll just ignore you next time.

[d'Arthez]

I do not see that as a valid point. Just because not every single person has experienced a 'haunted house' does not mean such does not exist. Just some people have to experience it.

And because not every single person considers Bush to be smart must necessarily mean that Bush is smart? Makes perfect nonsense.

 

Evidence is evidence.

Icarus flew. It is written therefore evidence in your book. Therefore, man can fly without using helicopters, planes or anything advanced. Just a few feathers and some wax will do. I would say: good luck if you try to cross the Atlantic that way.

 

No, because I dont have to do anything you are saying.

The thing is, the Bible cannot even prove that. If it solely contains truth it must also hold the rejection of such an argument. However, that is not the case. Therefore it is relevant.

 

You choose your avatar.

Thus the image of a duck becomes a person. Wow! No wonder why some Christians do not even know what idolatry is nowadays.

 

See, I'm not misinterpretating anything you are saying - right out from the horses mouth here.

Right. I would get more adequate responses from a Chinese farmer, if I were to communicate in a language said farmer does not claim to speak, than from you in a language you supposedly speak in daily life. And that is not because I am more sympathetic to the Chinese than to the Canadians.

 

You think people are mentally insane or delusional who think differently than you do - that is why you label them with fanciful terms as schiphonphranea, or wahtever.....

Wait!

You have claimed to have a college degree in psychology, yet do not even know what schizophrenia is? Let alone how to spell it?

 

so there is no point denying this now to try to make yourself look good.

Again, try to read what I have written, instead of assume that I have written what you have liked to be true. It may actually work.

[Moose]

Moai,

 

Apology accepted.

 

Please accept mine, if I pissed you off as well.

 

I do want the record cleared that I don't have pals in the Taliban.....

[Admiral Thrawn]

A doctor who understands biology and evolution. Moreover, since you want to hamper science education by teaching Creationism--a waste of time and resources--you WON'T get as good medical care as you would otherwise. It is precisely because of cranks who don't understand science that our children lag far behind the children in other cultures.

 

Oh really. How is belief in the theory of 'Evolution' going to cure anyone?

 

You know, it is interesting, the assertions made by Kevin Trudeau in the "Natural Healings" book that the whole industry is in to make money and to keep people sick. That is why you never actually hear of cures of cancer, or aids, but always see that people are donating or governments are funding them.

 

Actually, I can't prescribe medicine, but I do understand how drugs work, what different types of drugs there are, and that there are many different ways to treat most maladies. And yes, i ask my doctor informed questions and I seek second opinions. I know that cough medicine doesn't do anything, yet ignorant Americans spend billions of dollars a year on them.

 

Sure, drugs are toxins that help keep you sick.

 

I know that homeopathy is pseudoscience, and yet millions of ignorant Americans drop billions on this, too. How do I know this? Because I understand biology.

 

And millions of more Americans are dying today then ever before despite so called advancements of medical science.

 

It is interesting that you trust sceince when it suits you and helps you, but reject it when that very same science butts up against your superstitions.

 

And it is interesting that you summarily reject Ancedontal evidence and people's experiences and claim to be open-minded.

 

Biology is about living organisms, not automobiles or refrigerators.

 

Living organism use automabiles and refrigerators.

 

How nice that you are so anti-science. You and your pals the Taliban make a great team. The type of thinking you describe is what holds men back and keeps them ignorant. If others thought as you do, the average life span in this country would still be about 40. Great.

 

That is just ignorant. We have great Atheistic countries - like China, Cuba, the old Soviet Union. That's right, Stalin did not believe in God, and look how they treated people. Perhaps you should have lived in an Atheistic country such as the U.S.S.R. - I'm sure you like me associating you with the likes of Stalin since you are both Atheists.

 

To imply that the fossil record and dating methods somehow "fool" people is to imply that God allowed fossils to develop, made carbon-14 decay at a steady, measurable rate (as well as other isotopes that can date much older things) all in order to mislead people. To what end? That is absolutely nonsensical.

 

I've heard of documented cases of error with carbon-14 measurement. Even living organisms were thought to be thousands or millions of years old with that measurement. It's inaccurate.

 

The fact is, the more we understand science, the smaller your superstitions have to get. I can see how that would make you angry and feel foolish, but that doesn't mean we should stop studying things.

 

Like building a time-machine so you can prove the theory of evolution?

 

And understanding biology or any other science isn't filling your head with "stats." It is understanding the world around you, and preparing yourself to better interact with it. That is why it is required in school, and people aren't considered educated unless they understand it.

 

The natural world. As we told you, there is no disagreement of science or the Bible as it pertains things of the current material world and the study of it.

 

Yes, I do know what you know about subjects. You specifically said I need to read more when I posted the fact that we can't explain gravity, which shows you don't understand gravity. You think evolution is just a "theory" when it is a fact and the "theory" explains the fact that we see. And you think that Creationism is on a par with evolution (or any other aspect of science) which shows that you do not understand science in even a basic way. I know all of these things based on what you yourself have posted.

 

Have you started working on the time-machine yet? Is time-travel scientifically possible?

 

Actually, RNA is very near life. It self-replicates, and is subject to mutation, so in the most basic sense it is, in fact, alive. And I refer to "we" as in human beings. I didn't perform the experiment, but I can read basic English and can read the results. It wasn't a secret.

 

So, what is your point?

 

Why is it you Fundamentalists constantly change the rules? First, it was "man cannot create life". When we do, you say, "well, it didn't come from absolutely nothing". It would be impossible to create something from nothing, since there is stuff here.

 

But where did the 'stuff' some from, nothing?

 

Beyond that, evolution is what happens once life is here. The study of abiogenesis addresses how life began. They are two seperate fields.

 

Right, but it is still an extrapolation. Creationalism would also suggest, that God creaed things to reproduce and mutate, but the point of origin of animals and humans are exactly as they appear now.

 

Without the benefit of time-travel, Evolution is a falsfifiable theory, and since a time-machine can not be invented by science, then it is inconclusive.

 

 

I doubt it.

 

You are good at that. I give you that.

 

And they didn't make RNA with acid.

 

I think that is LSD, not RNA.

 

And I sincerely hope that you can avoid the pitfalls of accepting anecdotal evidence for things, and that your superstitions are held at bay enough to not give your money to liars, but time will tell.

 

Of course, just reject 'tons' of evidence to show that there is more than the natural world. And, you are talking about rejecting evidence you dont like to hear?