Is there really a god?

[quankanne]

Just because you dont like what it says, and you are a practising Roman Catholic, does not mean it is inaccurate or misleading.

 

and just because you embrace it and choose to spread this kind of manure doesn't mean it is accurate or reeking of the truth.

 

Not everyone who professes a belief in God holds the correct one.

 

and obviously, Chick's doesn't hold water because in my eyes, he's not doing much to build up the Body of Christ, but rather chooses to kick, stab and spit upon it.

 

The Catholics were behind the Soviet Revolution and HOlocaust because they wanted to kill non-Catholic Jews so they could put their church in Jerusalem. It's all on Alberto Rivera's book called godfathers. Please, read it, it * could * be true, right? Why would someone make up something like that if it weren't?

 

non-Catholic Jews? just how exactly is that supposed to work?

And I'm supposed to disengage my brain and be spoonfed a bunch of crackpot lies from a man who *claims* to have been a Jesuit priest, but no records have been found to verify that? Who claims to be doing God's work but screwing people over in his personal life? Why would he make up these things. One, because he can; two, because he was a dangerous, delusional little man who was very good at the con game.

 

sorry, I'll continue to put my faith in centuries of writings recognized by the Church that make much more sense than Chick or the conspiracy theory guy

[Admiral Thrawn]

Hummm AT then what is your educated opinion about this site which contradicts part of your quote above?

 

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/blasphemy.html

 

enjoy..... a4a

 

At what point does the Lord breath life into the fetus so that it becomes a living soul? The site remains vague on that very crucial point, and pre-supposes that it is a living soul when it leaves the womb.

 

The other point is the idea of wantonly killing a living organism. The Bible shows that God frowns on wanton killings of any organism, such as a cat or a dog, and punishes people by shortening their days if they practise such.

 

So the practise of women having sex out of wedlock, or a prostitute routinely killing off fetuses would be as wanton as shooting a cat or a dog every day, even if there was no human soul. Which would still be wrong, even if it may not be as wrong as taking a human life. In a best case scenerio, if a human soul were not to exist in a fetus, then abortions would only be justified in the most necessary of cases and if possible, just once or a few times.

 

If there were a human soul then that is a different story, that would be murder. Since the site remains vague about that particular issue - when the fetus becomes sentinent, then I figure its best to err on the side of caution and assume it becomes self-aware at conception.

 

As a matter of consent, tax-dollars should not be collected from people who dont believe in abortions to fund them. If people want to make a seperate donation on their income-tax forms to pay for such services, and we make 'optional form' income taxes, so you pay for what services you feel are important for you as a government, then that would be alright.

 

A good political leader will give people choice as to where they want to spend their taxes, rather than just spend the money wherever. That secion is missing from income tax forms.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Just because you dont like what it says, and you are a practising Roman Catholic, does not mean it is inaccurate or misleading.

 

and just because you embrace it and choose to spread this kind of manure doesn't mean it is accurate or reeking of the truth.

 

 

So, I guess we'll just be cancelling each other out.

 

Not everyone who professes a belief in God holds the correct one.

 

and obviously, Chick's doesn't hold water because in my eyes, he's not doing much to build up the Body of Christ, but rather chooses to kick, stab and spit upon it.

 

No, he's is objectively showing, by scripture, the errors of the Catholic church, and the spiritual implication of their errors. Obviously the tracts are against the Roman Catholic church as an institution and system, not against the misguided people who go to that church, or people who you may esteem are making relevant contributions to the community.

 

Just like the U.S. government. People may not like the American war in Iraq, and you know what, many Americans do not like it either. So, many Catholics who really look at their own system, who really know God, can not agree with all their doctrines and the church as an infallible institution.

 

The Catholics were behind the Soviet Revolution and HOlocaust because they wanted to kill non-Catholic Jews so they could put their church in Jerusalem. It's all on Alberto Rivera's book called godfathers. Please, read it, it * could * be true, right? Why would someone make up something like that if it weren't?

 

non-Catholic Jews? just how exactly is that supposed to work?

 

Jews would be against the pope moving from Rome to Jerusalem. It would make sence to secure the Holy Land so the pope could move his head quarters from Rome to Jerusalem.

 

And I'm supposed to disengage my brain and be spoonfed a bunch of crackpot lies from a man who *claims* to have been a Jesuit priest, but no records have been found to verify that? Who claims to be doing God's work but screwing people over in his personal life? Why would he make up these things. One, because he can; two, because he was a dangerous, delusional little man who was very good at the con game.

 

He has no motivation to do that. You could say the same thing of the many people who claimed to have been sexually abused by priests - I guess they too were only interested in the money.

 

sorry, I'll continue to put my faith in centuries of writings recognized by the Church that make much more sense than Chick or the conspiracy theory guy

 

Fine. But the premise of that church is all wrong. Peter is not the first pope.

 

I have already made a post that conclusively shows that Peter was not the first pope of Rome, by showing you the book of Peter - so I'm finished. Jesus never preferred Peter to any disciple when they asked which disciple was the greatest - instead Jesus pointed to a little child, and encouraged them to be 'like children', rather than saying 'Peter is the greatest' as would be the premise of the church.

 

I'll put my faith in the KJV Bible, and I'll put the premise of my faith on Jesus Christ, rather than who Peter was, how does that sound?

[a4a]

The other point is the idea of wantonly killing a living organism. The Bible shows that God frowns on wanton killings of any organism, such as a cat or a dog, and punishes people by shortening their days if they practise such. [/Quote]

 

So sport hunting is a sin? Is eating meat a sin as well as there are options not to eat meat? How short is my life going to become for euthanizing thousands of unwanted homeless animals?

 

So the practise of women having sex out of wedlock, or a prostitute routinely killing off fetuses would be as wanton as shooting a cat or a dog every day, even if there was no human soul. Which would still be wrong, even if it may not be as wrong as taking a human life. In a best case scenerio, if a human soul were not to exist in a fetus, then abortions would only be justified in the most necessary of cases and if possible, just once or a few times..

 

What is necessary? And what if the fetus was an offspring of an enemy of god and your beliefs..... future Jihad member, would abortion be ok then?

 

As a matter of consent, tax-dollars should not be collected from people who dont believe in abortions to fund them. If people want to make a seperate donation on their income-tax forms to pay for such services, and we make 'optional form' income taxes, so you pay for what services you feel are important for you as a government, then that would be alright.

 

A good political leader will give people choice as to where they want to spend their taxes, rather than just spend the money wherever. That secion is missing from income tax forms.

 

Holy smokes I agree on this with you...... but I think bogus churches should pay property tax. Other NPOs still have to pay property tax.

 

a4a- check marks the abortion fund on her income tax return, but chooses not to pay for babysitting services aka public schools under their current condition.

[Admiral Thrawn]

According to you, it is impossible to determine whether or not cigarettes, radiation, polution etc. cause cancer. As it is only a theory. Not proof, as it is impossible to proof anything in your book.

 

quack, quack, quack quack quack, quack! quack - quack quack quack.

Quac? quack quack and quack quack quack.

 

The real Elvis is dead.

 

Quack!

 

Of course. You can fly on a refrigerator. And do the dishes with a video-recorder. You can.

 

But, quack quack quack quack. Quack quack quack quach and also quack quack quack.

 

I think you make more sence in your native language.

[a4a]

quack, quack, quack quack quack, quack! quack - quack quack quack.

Quac? quack quack and quack quack quack.

 

 

 

Quack!

 

 

 

But, quack quack quack quack. Quack quack quack quach and also quack quack quack.

 

I think you make more sence in your native language.

 

 

Oh AT that was not mature at all..... almost sinful in a SENSE

 

Really when you don't have an answer you either become a smartass or just say because god says so, "I read it in the KJV". There is a problem: some people idolize the bible. Do you find yourself doing this? serious question there not a dig.

 

a4a

[Admiral Thrawn]

So sport hunting is a sin? Is eating meat a sin as well as there are options not to eat meat? How short is my life going to become for euthanizing thousands of unwanted homeless animals?

 

If the animal is not eaten afterwards, or there is no constructive purpose behind killing it - then it is just wantonness, then yes, that would be a sin. They are all God's creations and should be treated with respect.

 

Nothing is wrong with eating meat. But, you may not want to with all the pesticides, antibiotics, genetic modified components, etc....

 

 

What is necessary? And what if the fetus was an offspring of an enemy of god and your beliefs..... future Jihad member, would abortion be ok then?

 

Or the Anti-christ, whatever. My faith does not preach killing people who disagree with my beliefs - Jesus teaches us Christians to love our enemies.

 

Holy smokes I agree on this with you...... but I think bogus churches should pay property tax. Other NPOs still have to pay property tax.

 

Only businesses should be paying property taxes who are making a good profit, and people who pay property taxes for their homes, should decide where their money is going to fund.

 

However, I'm not a politician, so that is best left to the powers that be.

Chances are, they wont care.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Oh AT that was not mature at all..... almost sinful in a SENSE

 

Really when you don't have an answer you either become a smartass or just say because god says so, "I read it in the KJV". There is a problem: some people idolize the bible. Do you find yourself doing this? serious question there not a dig.

 

a4a

 

I only respond to intelligent questions, not duck brain questions or statements.

 

In answer to your second question, which seems intelligent on the surface, No, I do not idolize the Bible.

[a4a]

If the animal is not eaten afterwards, or there is no constructive purpose behind killing it - then it is just wantonness, then yes, that would be a sin. They are all God's creations and should be treated with respect.

 

Nothing is wrong with eating meat. But, you may not want to with all the pesticides, antibiotics, genetic modified components, etc....

 

 

 

 

Or the Anti-christ, whatever. My faith does not preach killing people who disagree with my beliefs - Jesus teaches us Christians to love our enemies.

 

 

 

Well I don't eat meat or animal squeezing in general. But I do kill hundreds of animals every year..... So I am sinning? What should we do with homeless unwanted animals.... let them roam the streets? Or even mice or rats for that matter....... I use live traps for them.

 

Your god must have really screwed up allowing cats and dogs to multiply so quickly... and for that matter the 64,000 plus horses killed for human consumption in the US last year. Healthy 6 month old horses...... not half dead nags....... god allows overpopulation of animals so I can get my jollies having to kill them I suppose?

 

Love your enemies?

Does anyone know where in the Bible a prophet of God calls upon God to induce abortions in the wives of his enemies? Let's look at Hosea 9:14.

 

Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb (an abortion) and dry breasts.

 

And later,

 

...yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

Hosea 9:16

 

 

In this case God causes abortions, the prophet prays that these women will abort. If these are truly innocent children, how could God do this? But they are not, they are "miscarrying wombs," "unperfect substances" and God will prevent them from becoming human souls that will grow up to oppress his people.

 

 

I am seriously curious.......

 

a4a

[d'Arthez]

quack, quack, quack quack quack, quack! quack - quack quack quack.

Quac? quack quack and quack quack quack.

Quack!

But, quack quack quack quack. Quack quack quack quach and also quack quack quack.

 

I think you make more sence in your native language.

And it seems you make less spelling mistakes in Duck than in English. I suspect you are an expert writer in Duck.

[Bogun]

I've read in the Quran, Surah 2: The Cow, vs. 12-13. It encourages that unbelievers should be killed.

 

Therefore, the Islam, as taken to its full spirit as originally intended, would have everyone murdered who chooses to remain an infidel.

I have this passage from the koran in front of me. It says nothing about killing unbelievers. Talks about "evil doers" and unbelievers saying "are we to believe as fools believe?"

 

You either have a poorly translated koran, or you made this post up, or perhaps you simply read it on chicks website?

 

Where does jihad come from? Their books teach that one of the sure ways to enter heaven is to blow themselves up in crowds of people to get 70 virgins.

No it does not teach them this. It is the extremists who come up with this BS. The muslims in my own country do not support the acts of terrorists, and are concerned about the damage it is doing to islam. Chick is just the christian version of the muslim extremists. Along with that other idiot that recently claimed that ariel sharons illness was punishment from god.

Islam is all about winning the world to Islam by any means necessary.

Wrong again. It's the evangelical christians that want to convert the entire world.

[Bogun]

The Catholics were behind the Soviet Revolution and HOlocaust because they wanted to kill non-Catholic Jews so they could put their church in Jerusalem. It's all on Alberto Rivera's book called godfathers. Please, read it, it * could * be true, right?

WTF?????????????????????

:lmao: :lmao:

Surely this is proof of this guys lack of credibility.

 

Why would someone make up something like that if it weren't?

Are you so naive admiral?

 

If in fact God created the world 6,000 years ago, and then destroyed it by a flood 4,400 years ago, we should expect to find many of the oldest things in the world to be somewhat less than 4,400 years old.

 

Hovind, in his seminar, offers many examples, including:

 

The Great Barrier Reef, the oldest and largest reef in the world, has been determined to be 4,200 years old.

The world's oldest tree is 4,300 years old.

Minerals being washed into the ocean by erosion would bring the salt content of the ocean to its present level in less than 5,000 years!

More ignorance. In Lake Mungo in Australia, the remains of 2 humans were found that have been dated conservatively to at least 20000 years ago.

[Moai]

If you have ever visited a large cave, you may have heard the guide warn you, "Don't touch the formations! They took millions of years to form!" Hanging from the ceiling of the cave were probably many beautiful pointed rock hangings, called stalactites. They are formed by mineral deposits left by dripping water over time.

 

And it is true.

 

The guide may even have told you that it takes a thousand years to grow a stalactite an inch. Carlsbad Caverns is supposed to have taken 250 million years to grow. But is it true? If so, the world must be millions of years old, and the Genesis account of creation completely wrong.

 

Yep, true again.

 

Dr. Kent Hovind, in his video "The Age of the Earth," offers many surprising facts demonstrating that the world cannot possibly be this old.

 

Sure he does. Kent Hovind is a nut, and a liar. He is not a phd at all--in fact, he got his phd from an unaccredited "unversity' run out of a house in suburban Denver--if memory serves.

 

I have deleted the cut-and-paste quotations from this yahoo, simply because anyone who is interested can look up Hovind and all these lame rehashed arguments for themselves, and get more detail about them than I can provide here. I would recommend Talk Origins to anyone interested about this subject from either side, as at least you will get a basic understanding of the issue there..

[Moai]

Right, go up to someone with an Evolution textbook and cure them by teaching them Evolution.

 

Nothing in biology makes sense except in light of evolution. That's my point.

 

There are two sides of a coin. Kevin Trudeau claims that he has been victimised by the FDA, the Government because he is whistleblowing them.

 

He can claim anything he wants. Evidence suggest he is a liar, and his criminal record supports this.

 

When there is a natural remedy around the corner that can cure all that.

 

The point is, the government is making censors, or restricting information to the public about natural cures, because only 'drugs' are conveniently labelled as a substance that can cure people. People should be free to choose what cure or treatement they want, and not have to be victim of witheld information.

 

How is this information being withheld if yo uand I heard about it, and Trudeau has it in a book? People are free to seek any treatment they want, it's just that only products that do what they say they do get FDA approval.

 

It's as Miclkle Moore said on "The Corporation", why would corporate Hollywood want to make money off a DVD that could cause a boycott of corporations or start a revolution?

 

The answer, the rich man is so greedy, that he will sell his own noose to make a buck. They dont understand anything but the dolllar, even if it means risking their own lives or their family members. There are people who would sell their grandparents for a dollar. The richer people are, the greedier they become, and it is as simple as that.

 

It would seem that you have more in common with Stalin than I do. Are you a closet Commie?

 

That is malarchi. People are dying of cancer, stroke, and heart-attacks to a much greater extent than ever before. If people are living longer, it is because of hygene, toilet paper invention, and other things that have helped things get more sanitary.

 

False. Show me one credible website that has datum supporting this.

 

By the time someone starts going into the doctor-drug system, they start a process of a slow death, until they start taking umpteen tablets a day to cure of damages done by other drugs in a chain-reaction.

 

Which is a vapid misunderstanding of how drugs work, and why they are prescribed.

 

There are plenty of Elvis Prestlie impresonators. That is what you would have probably seen. You choose a very bad example because people do see Elvis Prestlie impersonators, since they are quite a few of them, right?

 

Exactly. So you dismiss anecdoatl evidence. That being the case, please tell me how you decide which anecdotal evidence is ok to accept, and which isn't. I suspect that anecdotal evidence that supports your preconcieved notions is great, that which doesn't is dismissable.

 

Look, if you are going to start comparing religious people and Taliban, then it is fair to compare Atheists with Stalin. And religious people breath the same air as George Bush, Sadaam Hussein, or Osama Bin Ladin, so what's your point?

 

My point is that Fundamentalists are anti-intellectual. And while their core beliefs may be different--Muslim vs. Christian--their agenda is virtually identical and equally dangerous.

 

It's a sham. It incorrectly dated a living organism as being extint millions of years ago.

 

As I mentioned, you cannot use Carbon-14 to date a lving thing. It is specious to use a test incorrectly and then claim that the test is flawed.

 

A time-machine would be a necessary invention to determine exact dates.

If science can solve all problems, then why cant it come up with a time-machine so we can travel back in time and find out what really happened?

 

No, we have excellent dating methods to determine age. And science has determined that time machines are impossible.

 

Sure, but they could have been 'created' to do so.

 

Why not? I thought you said science has all the answers. It cant come up with something as simple as a time-machine invention? What about the Flux Capacitor? Or Einstine's theory of relativity, and harnessing Black Hole energy and warping the space-time continuum?

 

I didn't say that science has all the answers. Far from it, but we get more and more answers every day. Comparing Relativity (which shows us that time travel is impossible, by the way) to the Flux Capacitor is inane.

 

But not where it came from.

 

That is absurd. Let's stick to theology not wild philosophical speculation.

 

Why is it absurd? AN invisible super-being can do anything it wants. And you'd never know it. That's why any postulation about what a supreme being is or isn't doing is not science.

 

How can you come to that conclusion?

 

Look at the way things are designed? Why mixed and matched flaws?

 

When a time-machine is invented, then we will see how the Theory of Evolution will stand.

 

It hasstood very well for the last 150 years. And the Theory is different than the fact. You can see evolution yourself rightnow, and yet youdeny that it is happening. And you say that I am good at doubting.

 

Adam and Eve.

 

Nope.

 

Ahem.

 

Probably only in the mind.

 

Maybe you were on the wrong floor or building. Maybe the ghosts do not like you. Maybe the ghosts come out at certain times days.

 

Or maybe there is no such thing as a haunted house.

 

But not mutate or reproduce?

 

Of course, what you are seeing is attributable to the effects of the drug.

 

To infer that other people's experiences are attributable to drugs, mental disorders, and discounting ancedontal evidence on those grounds, is as I told d'Arthez, the epithomy of absolute ignorance and is downright disrespectful to the people who have had these experiences.

 

How is it disrespectful to ask for evidence of one's claims? It doesn't matter how fervently someone believes something, it matters that there is evidence or not. ANd extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

[Toni_no12002]

I dont believe in god so i dont believe in the devil.I believe we all have god and the devil in us.Or good and evil.

 

Whats cancer got to do with all of this.Everything causes cancer,well mostly everything you cant do anything now without having a risk from something.I smoke but it doesnt give me cancer we all have cancer cells inside us to begin with its just if they begin to grow and spread thats the problem.

 

Did we cause cancer?How could we have done if its inside us to begin with?So did god put it there?

 

Hows this all going to prove there is a god?Taking sections out of the bible doesnt prove his existence.I know i cant disprove his existence but wheres this arguement actually leading?this threads going to go on forever!

 

What annoys me is that if something good happens its gods will if something bad happens then god works in mysterious ways!ha yea right

 

As for people saying that god speaks to them they could be hearing there own voices inside there head or there schizophrenic.My brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia and he hears voices telling him what to do.Sounds like that sort of thing.

 

This may be a little off topic but i havent a clue what your all going on about as im not religious.Maybe i believe facts quite alot but if we didnt believe in fact we'd all live in a messed up world.

[newbby]

 

How is it disrespectful to ask for evidence of one's claims? It doesn't matter how fervently someone believes something, it matters that there is evidence or not. ANd extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

 

evidence of things that are beyond physical form as we percieve it, will not likely be found in any physical form that can be percieved. i suppose those that have faith have evidence in what they feel rather than what they see.

on the other hand, each to his own. whatever people find individually that makes them happy and makes them a better person, without imposing belief systems on anybody else, then good. it is always the IMPOSING that is wrong, and not the belief itself.

[wizdom]

It's funny d arthur you had nothing to comment about the scientific proof I gave you except to say don't post it all on one thread. You must have been dumb founded b/c you could not come back with any scientific proof to disprove me.

 

toni: you are really blind and disillusiond, yes God works in Mysterious ways but nobody every said that he only does when something goes bad. I know all you scientist out there can agree that for every action there is a reaction, same is true for God. the wages of sin is death. The first example of that was Adam & Eve theirs was spiritual death apart from God and then eventually physical death. But I'm sure that goes way over most of your heads so I won't start on that. So if in science if everything has a consequence then what we do daily to our body's is going to effect you. Toni you may not have lung cancer now but it is scientific fact that your lungs and artery's are black and coated with tar and that it will eventually lead to cancer unless you die before it develops. If i stand in the sun everyday for 5 hours i will get skin cancer or i will develop winkles prematurelly. So what we do to our bodies will bring about sickness. God does not cause it we do.

 

it is very evident that you don't believe in God toni but if you don't why do you blame him for everything. you can't find fault in someone you claim does not exist. Secondly most Christians don't claim to hear God in head like a adible voice like most scizos do. God speaks to us in our Spirit he will convict us when we are wrong or he comforts us by bringing peace in our Spirit kind of like your Grandma. You said she was at peace and ready to die that's because she had the Peace of God upon her and she knew that everything would be okay. Have you ever talked to her about God? Has she try to lead you to salvation?We can say what if all we want to it does not change the fact that God is real. If you study Bible Prophecy all of it has been fulfilled the Big one that everyone knows about is Isreal becoming a nation which thay are. DO you honestly thank the Prophets that wrote the Bible where makeing a hypothises( educated guess) about that or did they have insight from GOd to write that thousands of years ago? What would common sense tell you. ALso this was on the news about this lady's husband who died in Africa and she would not burie him b/c she had faith that God would raise him from the dead, so she prayed for him everyday and stood in faith and didn't doubt despite what people said about her and after a week of her praying God rose her husband back to life. How can we say there is no God when stuff like that happens. He was pronouced dead by doctors but God rose him up b/c he is bigger than science or medicine and he can do what no doctor can. So you can doubt all you want but there is more proof that God exist than he doesn't. Sciences is just that educated guesses. how do we know that an ape really isn't called a dog and a whale a turlte we don't those our names man made up for God's creation. and if we evolved from apes why are there still apes and monkies running around wouldn't they have died off or all evolved if evolution were true. The bigbang theory will dedinate when Christ comes back for his Church, so until then we can argue all the scientific facts out there but the truth is God designed the world around us very uniqley(spelled wrong) everything has a purpose in creation even the smalles of insects have purpose. I'm not speaking to you toni on this but i don't see how you people can be so smart and truly believe that something that is designed so intriquetly could have evolved that is just plain old ignorance and an insult to God.

 

Question you scientist what is air? where does it come from? why can't we see it? B/c we can't see it it is safe for me to say that it does not exist right? i can argue with you based on your believe because i can't physically see it means that it doesn't exist. Also where did it evolve from? or Where did water evolve from or was it always here? How does something evolve out of nothing it can't that just makes no sense. Also where did clouds come from? You can give me any scientific term to tell me what we have concluded water is and clouds are but you will never be able to tell me where it came from.

If you can give me proof without a shadow of a doubt of where everything started from I will say that God does not exist. Since we all know that non of you can't we must conclude that God exist and the only logical explination about the creation of the universe included planents stars etc is that God created them.

 

You no what is funny is people ask the question How can God have always been there where was he created from? So i ask the question How could atoms and whatever stuff that supposedly we evovled from always been there? Can someone answer that:p

 

I guess i have written enough i don't want to get another lame response from speechless, proven wrong people telling me i shouldn't have written so long on the same thread. Please respond with intelligence not with ignorance. I would really like to have a conversation with you guys and not a arguement I want to know why you really feel evelution is truth.

 

one more question that came to mind if people are born gay like many of you guys thank that don't believe in God. If we evolved than why did we evolve into man and woman and not just all man or all women?: Does it the fact that there are two genders tell you that we are not born gay and being gay is not normal even in evolution? If we were supposed to be gay would't the same sex be able to procreate why can't they?

[a4a]

:

one more question that came to mind if people are born gay like many of you guys thank that don't believe in God. If we evolved than why did we evolve into man and woman and not just all man or all women?: Does it the fact that there are two genders tell you that we are not born gay and being gay is not normal even in evolution? If we were supposed to be gay would't the same sex be able to procreate why can't they?

 

A gay man can procreate as can a lesbian barring any fertility problems.

Born gay meaning that they were born with an attraction to the same sex is possible, just as people are born both sexes. Wiring and forming of a human does not always go as "planned" in the womb. (So a hemorphdite is or is not a creation of this god)?

 

the below may help to squash your fear, hatred, or inability to understand the biology of being gay.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002340883_gayscience19m.html

 

then you can explain the Grouper and its reason it procreates the way it does.... hummmmmm?

 

a4a

[wizdom]

i figured you woul only comment on my last question. I think some females our attractive that does not mean i am gay. Secondly man and man can not procreate together i don't know what your smoking they can artificially insiminate a women and she can bear the child. If we were suppossed to be gay both sexes would be able to bear children they can't and you know it.

i am not afraid of gays for if you read any of my post before my father was before he died thou he repented of his lifestyle and gave his life back to GOd. He new it was wrong and he didn't like it but there was a homosexual spirit over him that had to be broken which God did. There are like four once gay people in my church that God helped take that desire away. Just b/c you desire something doesn;t make it right. What about People who desire to murder, does it make it okay because they have that desire. as i know you will say no, how does it make it okay to be gay just because you have a desire for a man. also not every gay person was a hemapridte at birth so you claim to that doesn't hold. I understand that situation and i am sure it is very frustrating. why don't you committ on anything else in my post? Was this the only thing you had knowledge on or where you trying to make me out as a gay hater. I love all people and i do not judge that is left up to God i can only speak light into those i incounter and leave it up to the holy spirit to show himself to all people.

[quankanne]

So, I guess we'll just be cancelling each other out. … No, (Chick) is objectively showing, by scripture, the errors of the Catholic church, and the spiritual implication of their errors.

 

one opinion does not, nor cannot, cancel out another. It's simply an opinion, something that merits value primarily with the beholder. If you want to follow crayon-scribbled writings of a crackpot who by his actions is denying the very God he claims to love because he chooses to foster hate and create barriers among God's little chillun, be my guest. Objectivity calls for showing all sides of the story possible, not just giving a one-sided

presentation and claiming it as truth. BTW, Scripture is always capitalized when referring to the Hebrew or Christian Bible, according to my CNS Stylebook on Religion.

 

"non-Catholic Jews? just how exactly is that supposed to work?" … Jews would be against the pope moving from Rome to Jerusalem. It would make sence to secure the Holy Land so the pope could move his head quarters from Rome to Jerusalem.

 

then they'd be considered Jews in opposition to said action, or anti-Catholic Jews, but never non-Catholic Jews because by their very nature, Jews cannot be Catholic or Christian or Protestant because they do not embrace Jesus as the Messiah.

 

(Rivera) has no motivation to (lie). You could say the same thing of the many people who claimed to have been sexually abused by priests - I guess they too were only interested in the money.

 

there are people who lie to make themselves look better or to advance their cause or to gain support for whatever grudge they've got going. There have been cases of people creating "incidents" of sexual abuse against clergy (Cardinal Joseph Bernardine of Chicago was falsely accused, and his attacker recanted the claim) and there are true incidents of abuse. Rivera on the other hand, appears to have been one of those people who created a false history to further himself and his grudge against the church. Was he really a priest? Unless he's got records of ordination, and the Catholic Church is very adamant about record-keeping, he's lying. His motivation to lie? God only knows, however, Rivera's actions suggest that he was in it for himself, not because he had true cause to gripe against the Church. But that's neither here nor there – you're entitled to believe as you will.

 

"sorry, I'll continue to put my faith in centuries of writings recognized by the Church that make much more sense than Chick or the conspiracy theory guy" … Fine. But the premise of that church is all wrong. Peter is not the first pope.[b/]

 

… and I am entitled to believe as I will. And I don't have a problem with Peter recognized as the leader of the disciples, chosen by Christ to build his church and given the key of the kingdom (Mt. 16:18-19). If he's good enough for Jesus to put in charge, then he's good enough for me and my church to recognize as being in charge. The title "pope" is merely a tool for identification, and throughout history, men have stood in Peter's stead as they guide the Church through the ages. Which is why we claim apostolic succession, why we say we can trace our history back to the apostles. But you being anti-Catholic, I don't expect you to want to truly understand how it works.

[d'Arthez]

It's funny d arthur you had nothing to comment about the scientific proof I gave you except to say don't post it all on one thread. You must have been dumb founded b/c you could not come back with any scientific proof to disprove me.

I don't bother to respond to copy and paste-work. I have better things to do than to waste my time on an anti-theistic zealot. No offence to quankanne, and the other decent Christians on this thread.

 

If the natural wavelength of red light is of 650 nm, and you claim 650 nm is yellow, I can come up with all the scientific proof that it is available, but it would not convince you. You want to believe your version of truth, but that does not make the belief true.

 

So if in science if everything has a consequence then what we do daily to our body's is going to effect you.

Yep. If you forget your grammar and spelling lessons, then in indeed it will affect your future spelling. There is hardly a debate about that one..

 

Secondly most Christians don't claim to hear God in head like a adible voice like most scizos do.

What is wrong with you and Thrawn? Schizo. A lot of schizophrenics have auditory hallucinations, but certainly not all schizophrenics. And a far smaller percentage claims that voice is Divine in origin.

 

Question you scientist what is air? where does it come from? why can't we see it? B/c we can't see it it is safe for me to say that it does not exist right?

For you it is. For a third-grader, it is not. You cannot see love. Therefore it does not exist. And please spare me the ridiculous proof you are already contemplating (or copying and pasting as you are wont to do). For an act is different than the noun.

 

If you can give me proof without a shadow of a doubt of where everything started from I will say that God does not exist. Since we all know that non of you can't we must conclude that God exist and the only logical explination about the creation of the universe included planents stars etc is that God created them.

Which is proven to be a false method of verifying that God exists. That was already known in the 12th century. You cannot prove that you have existed longer than one second (human counting). Therefore, because no one can disprove that, we must assume that all of us exist for less than 1 human second.

 

Even if you were actually coming up with real facts, and actually reading to what amongst others Moai and I have put up. Thrawn: "I do not like it, therefore it cannot be true", is no valid method of reasoning. Nor is making up data, and apply concepts to where they not belong by any means scientific. The example Thrawn provided on carbon-dating is simply false. If you believe a scientist who says the equivalent of, for instance: your refrigerator is the best aeroplane available, thus people should fly on refrigerators instead of the planes and helicopters people use nowadays. You have the right to believe that, but that does not make the belief true. You are free to fly on refrigerators. Somehow I do not think you would get far, though. Idiotic, I must admit.

 

I guess i have written enough i don't want to get another lame response from speechless, proven wrong people telling me i shouldn't have written so long on the same thread.

Proven wrong? You do not even debate. Saying "I don't believe you" does not cut it in a debate. Coming up with false facts does not cut it in a debate. As to why I do not respond to your copy & paste of the internet, it is an exercise in futility. If you don't want to discuss things in a rational manner, I have no reason to waste my time on Bible-idolizers (again no offence to quankanne and the other decent christians).

 

I would really like to have a conversation with you guys and not a arguement I want to know why you really feel evelution is truth.

The way you and Thrawn have "discussed" things makes people even more inclined to consider evolution true.

[a4a]

I chose not to answer your statements because they have been beaten like a dead horse on this thread.

 

But what a shame to not be able to love others enough to allow them and want them to be able to love the people they do. To attempt to say any love shared between people could be wrong.

 

Being gay is not all about sex. I will state that indeed you are ignorant on this topic. Actual love is involved in many cases, dedication, not just sex and at times sex is not involved at all. You are focusing too much on the use of ones sex organs rather than the use of their heart and spirit.

 

and another view on being gay in the bible:

http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html

 

a4a

[newbby]

What about People who desire to murder, does it make it okay because they have that desire.

murder hurts somebody else and takes away their choice to live or die. being gay does not hurt anybody nor does it impose anything on another. just as being christian in itself does not impose anything on another.

[wizdom]

I knew what i wrote would not be commited on. I did debate with you by giving you facts that help to disprove evolution. i am very rational and i never said gays don't love, i love my best friend and i am devoted to her doesn't mean we are gay. Being gay is more than that. i simply gave you guys things to considerd it doesn't matter if it is spelled wrong or if it was copied in past off of a site that does not make it any less true. i wanted real responses to back up what you call true but non of you can do that. infact you result to name calling and talking about my grammar what does that have to do with anything, second i am typing to get my point across not writing a thesis statement so as long as you can read get over it. you did not respond b/c you have no response. i have never said b/ i don't believe that's why I gave you proof. Not one of you acknowledge that proof you say it's a lie how do you come to that conclusion. give me something intelligent I know you guys have a answer to my question b/c science is the most logical answer so what is your response. again like i said i don't hate anyone and people can live how they want i don't judge that is not up to me that is up to God. If judging were up to us we would all be held in comtempt. so stop twisting my words and beating around the bush and if you are going to quote me quote the whole thing not just part of it to make your little snide comment make sense.

[Moai]

evidence of things that are beyond physical form as we percieve it, will not likely be found in any physical form that can be percieved. i suppose those that have faith have evidence in what they feel rather than what they see.

on the other hand, each to his own. whatever people find individually that makes them happy and makes them a better person, without imposing belief systems on anybody else, then good. it is always the IMPOSING that is wrong, and not the belief itself.

 

While I agree with your sentiment, there is smoething inherently dangerous in being too credulous. Credulous people are often taken advantage of, to their peril.

 

To say that we cannot impose our belief system on others is to say that we must teach that it is a valid position that the Earth is flat, simply because it makes some people happy to believe that.