Am I just a crutch?

[MadlyDeeply]

Can't believe this is me writing this! I read all your stories so it's about time i shared mine! Here it goes... I'm m with two wonderful young children, good husband(Like a friend) and dad to our children, lovely home. I love my H but I'm not in love with him, he knows I've changed and doesn't think we will last once the children have grown, but we enjoy the family unit together and are happy, just don't share hardly any intimacy. I have never had an affair before and never will again. 
My mm is a friend of ours and lives close by, he was working on a project for us for a few months. I never had any feelings for him before but we got closer as spent alot of time together, made each other laugh and talked about the problems in our marriages, before we knew it the affair had started, this was over 2yrs ago ......Now I'm madly deeply in love even though he is my complete opposite,15yrs older, v confident, charming, 2 daughters and 1son living at home(in their twenties) He has been m for 34yrs, he has been unfaithful throughout but nothing long term(This is always in back of my head) He tells me he loves me so much, says he has never felt like he does when he is with me, said he loves me and his w but me how he should! He feels sorry for W and and they have been through alot together. 
We are in touch most days and see each other as often as we can but it's never long enough! We even spent Valentine's eve together and shared first kiss of the new yr! His W is not happy in their m and has threatened to leave a few times but never does, they argue so much but think they are used to it after all these yrs. I think he must love me or why risk everything, he is scared his children won't forgive him if he leaves. When things are bad he tells me he is thinking of getting a flat but worried about his children. 
Am I just helping to keep his m going or do you think he really loves me? He always says all the right things like he can't imagine life without me now, he would be nothing without me, I belong to him, I'm his girl. He thinks about me all the time. When he goes away with W or family he is always in touch, all his friends know about me.
 I get so insecure and jealous which he can't understand but it's only because I love him so much and worry it will end due to his guilt/love for w. Even I have thought about ending this affair so many times as I'm exhausted by it and want to concentrate on my children but I'm too weak cause I'm madly deeply in love with this man. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, MadlyDeeply said:

He has been m for 34yrs, he has been unfaithful throughout but nothing long term(This is always in back of my head)

I think he must love me or why risk everything, he is scared his children won't forgive him if he leaves. When things are bad He always says all the right things like he can't imagine life without me now, he would be nothing without me, I belong to him, I'm his girl. He thinks about me all the time. All his friends know about me. 

Considering that he has been unfaithful throughout his marriage, why would you even consider this man as a long term partner? Seriously. 

The one thing that you know without doubt about this man is that he is capable of lying to a woman, that he is untrustworthy, and he does not value fidelity. Sure, “it’s always in the back of your mind.” It should be in the front of your mind. 

Of course, he says all the right things - you really “the one for him” and according to him, all his friends know about you (that must mean this is legit, right?). But seriously, you know for a fact that he lies to his wife everyday. Why do you believe a word that he says...

This affair did not just happen. It was not inevitable. You do have control here and you have made a poor decision. How do I know that - because your last line says “I would really like to concentrate on my children but I can’t, because I’m too preoccupied thinking about how madly in love I am with this unavailable, dishonest, untrustworthy, and unfaithful man.” That’s a problem, my friend.

My heart breaks for your husband and your children.

Edited March 14, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

Sorry, just realized that I didn’t answer your original question. 

I would say that based on what you have written, you are both clearly using each other to shore up unsatisfying marriages. That much is very obvious.  

[Sinful]

2 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Am I just helping to keep his m going or do you think he really loves me?

He always says all the right things like he can't imagine life without me now, he would be nothing without me, I belong to him, I'm his girl. He thinks about me all the time. When he goes away with W or family he is always in touch, all his friends know about me.

I've learned that actions speak so much louder than words. Watch and observe his actions and if they support his words because people can fake it for a long time, but eventually they will show themselves to be a phony. If he loves you so much that he can't be without you then his actions should show him doing everything possible to be with you. If not, then he's likely a phony. 

[Beendaredonedat]

2 hours ago, MadlyDeeply said:

he has been unfaithful throughout but nothing long term(This is always in back of my head)

It  should be in your head...  I suspect that you won't be the last one either.

If he spent valentines eve with you, it's no wonder she's not happy. One wonders what scheme to two of you came up with to arrange that without suspicion.  

 

I don't think he loves you anymore than he has any of the many AP's he's been with.  Please don't mistake his lust for love or is words as the truth.

 

I think you would really benefit from some personal therapy to help you figure out this mix up with your own lust vs love.  You appear to be addicted to the angst you feel until he graces you with his company once again.  He's a chronic cheater who is apparently a better sex addict than a life partner.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Beendaredonedat
added

[Mrin]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Sorry, just realized that I didn’t answer your original question. 

I would say that based on what you have written, you are both clearly using each other to shore up unsatisfying marriages. That much is very obvious.  

This. 100%. The only difference is you are one of a number of "crutches" he's used. He's your first. But you're both crutches. 

[Amethyst68]

Quote

We even spent Valentine's eve together

If you meant the 13th, that's not unusual. It's actually become known as Mistress Day in certain areas of society. So many men spend it with their AP because they spend Valentine's with their official partner. I'm talking the more cynical of retail, restaurants, hotel workers etc and the media of course. It's not a sign of love, it's just another hook to keep you interested.

 

[stillafool]

His story sounds a lot like yours.  You both tell each other you aren't in love with your spouses but are in love with each other.  However, both of you blame the children as the reason for staying but you admit you need to concentrate on your kids and not him.  How is that putting your kids first when your mind space is on some married man player.  Yes he's a player and has been one for 34 years.  He know just how to treat you and what to say.   You won't be his last.

[ExpatInItaly]

This guy wouldn't know what love was it it came up and punched him in the teeth. 

He knows what to say to keep you warm, though. He's done this before, as you already know. I would not believe most of what he tells you - he knows which lies to tell to keep the waters "calm," so to speak. He's done for years with his wife, so you would be wise to assume he spins a lot of half-truths for you, too.

The sweet nothings claiming that you're his "girl"? I realize it feels good to hear it, but that position is already occupied by his wife. Married men are not in a place to claim other "girls" as "theirs." 

In short? No, I don't think he loves you. 

[JimmyNorth]

9 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This guy wouldn't know what love was it it came up and punched him in the teeth. 

He knows what to say to keep you warm, though. He's done this before, as you already know. I would not believe most of what he tells you - he knows which lies to tell to keep the waters "calm," so to speak. He's done for years with his wife, so you would be wise to assume he spins a lot of half-truths for you, too.

The sweet nothings claiming that you're his "girl"? I realize it feels good to hear it, but that position is already occupied by his wife. Married men are not in a place to claim other "girls" as "theirs." 

In short? No, I don't think he loves you. 

But let me ask you this...do you think that it’s possible he really wants to be with OP? And maybe it’s hard for him to leave his BS at the moment because it’s a huge life change.

He’s just scared to take the leap. But I bet you he cherishes the deep passion and feelings he shares when he is together with OP. I’m sure the intimacy is mind blowing and is much more than a drug addiction.

If I read it right, it’s been 2 years. So if he’s been around that long, I’m sure he’s attached as well. If OP even attempts to date other, watch how this MM acts like a BS all of the sudden. 

[Amethyst68]

1 hour ago, JimmyNorth said:

But let me ask you this...do you think that it’s possible he really wants to be with OP? And maybe it’s hard for him to leave his BS at the moment because it’s a huge life change.

He’s just scared to take the leap. But I bet you he cherishes the deep passion and feelings he shares when he is together with OP. I’m sure the intimacy is mind blowing and is much more than a drug addiction.

If I read it right, it’s been 2 years. So if he’s been around that long, I’m sure he’s attached as well. If OP even attempts to date other, watch how this MM acts like a BS all of the sudden. 

You're making a lot of assumptions here, now I've never been a WS but I've read on a lot of other forums and a lot of long term affairs continue on for so long not for deep feelings or passion but from practicality and habit. The married person has already put so much effort setting up the situation, finding an AP who's 'content' with the status quo they'll stay with them because it's easier than finding someone new.

This is information got from people who are in or who have been in affairs but are honest about their feelings and reasons. They post quote openly about it too.

I'm not saying no-one ever falls in love but it's unrealistic to say it's every affair. I'd also say the majority of those who leave are actually kicked out.

[JimmyNorth]

6 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

You're making a lot of assumptions here, now I've never been a WS but I've read on a lot of other forums and a lot of long term affairs continue on for so long not for deep feelings or passion but from practicality and habit. The married person has already put so much effort setting up the situation, finding an AP who's 'content' with the status quo they'll stay with them because it's easier than finding someone new.

This is information got from people who are in or who have been in affairs but are honest about their feelings and reasons. They post quote openly about it too.

I'm not saying no-one ever falls in love but it's unrealistic to say it's every affair. I'd also say the majority of those who leave are actually kicked out.

I’m 50/50 on this.  I can tell you as an MM, my continuation with the OW was not due to habit. When I wouldn’t see her for a few days I’d start thinking about her face, lips and body, and the way she made me feel warm and loved, even years later. I didn’t feel that with the BS.

Yes it’s true. There are MM’s that are just using their AP and going along for the ride as long as they can. But I think you’d be surprised on how many MM’s would love to be living with their AP and be in heaven with their goddess that gives them unlimited affection. What guy wouldn’t want that!!

The thing is it just takes time to unwind a long term marriage, get the kids prepped and handle the way you feel after watching your BS breakdown. But the MM is usually always in bliss when he is with his AP, it’s just natural to feel bad for the BS and it takes a little bit of time to wrap your head around what should be done.

Edited March 15, 2020 by JimmyNorth
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[MadlyDeeply]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and advice, I really appreciate every single reply. 

Bailey do you think it's ever possible for a leopard to change its spots? I know it seems hard to believe, that's why I question it all the time cause trying to protect my heart but surely players can fall in love eventually, they must have a heart too deep inside? He must be such a good actor if this isn't real! His past does scare me though of course. 

 

Sinful yes I've been thinking actions speak louder than words and I've been observing. Do you think he would leave his family for 30 mins on Xmas day to come to just give me an Xmas kiss? 

Beentheredonedat yes I'm thinking of having some therapy, my best friend is a counselor too so is v supportive. 

Mrin I know it sounds like we are both crutches maybe in time that's what I will realise but I do love this man with all my heart and accept all the massive bad parts of him. 

Amethyst68 yes we got to spend 14th together, have done the last couple of years. 

Stillafool and ExpatinItaly I know that does scare me all the practice he must of had and to know what to say but his longest A in the past has only been a couple of months, usually one night stands, nothing like this, it's been over two years now. He must be such a good actor. 

Jimmy I think he is so scared to leave his safety net after all this time, it's all his has ever known. She does everything for him, but he can't help how he feels, he is just used to her being there to be honest. I actually feel sorry for her, think they should have split yrs ago so she could have met someone who loves her how she should be loved. 

I truly love this man I couldn't risk breaking up our family unit just for fun. We meet sometimes just for 5 minutes if unable to have any longer, even that we cherish as stupid as that sounds. 

Thank you all. 

 

 

 

[Amethyst68]

Quote

 I think you’d be surprised on how many MM’s would love to be living with their AP and be in heaven with their goddess that gives them unlimited affection. 

Having read more infidelity boards than I ever thought I would, trying to make sense of a family tragedy I have to say I think you'd be surprised at how many MM just want an AP who provide a specific service and don't overstep their role. You'll see it here all the time, women who continue in the affair for years but when they start pushing for more the MM starts pulling back or ending the affair, not understanding why the woman suddenly wants more. 

[Starswillshine]

This man is a serial cheat. They don't change their strips. He needs variety. Men who are serial cheats are very often not cheating because they are unhappy in their marriage but because they need more than one woman giving him that attention, ego strokes, etc. 

If, for some reason, his marriage does end and he ends up with you, you'll be the one at home waiting for an hour on Christmas while he "runs out real quick to get something".... aka going please his OW and getting his ego stroked. 

He wants you around. He definitely loves what you do for him (make him feel studly, etc). I would not call it love though. 

[MadlyDeeply]

Thank you starswillshine, when the time comes when i manage to get the strength to say goodbye, I will read your reply over and over to remind me I've made the right decision. I know I need to do it before a d day. I love him so much but I've got to accept you can't always be with the one you love😭

[Beca L]

34 minutes ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Thank you starswillshine, when the time comes when i manage to get the strength to say goodbye, I will read your reply over and over to remind me I've made the right decision. I know I need to do it before a d day. I love him so much but I've got to accept you can't always be with the one you love😭

I wish I could tell you what you want to hear MadlyDeeply but I’d be lying. I know from experience that there isn’t always a happy ending. It sounds like he is very dependant on BS and like a ‘man child’ unfortunately that is the worst possible scenario for you. He is probably unlikely to leave unless she chucks him out. I doubt that will happen as she must have known about his multiple affairs over the years but has turned a blind eye to them. Also his son still lives at home and he would not want to cause problems for him. If he left wouldn’t they need to sell the family home ? Where would that leave BS and son? Also you are still married, if he left his wife you are not free to be with him, are u ? Or any time soon ? 
He is not going to give up his cosy existence and secure home life to go and live on his own and wait for you to end your marriage which you may not do for a number of years. 
my xmm left his BS quite suddenly, two months after we got together (we had been friends for years) but looking back at it now his decision was not well thought out and quite reckless. He didn’t consider how his adult sons would feel or my 3 teenagers. I am single but live in a small house so he couldn’t move in. As the year progressed after he left, his sons became more estranged and they put the house on the market. It sold and the divorce was proceeding but he couldn’t cope with the guilt or loss of his kids. He knew he would have to live on his own for at least 3-4 years before we could live together. So 1 year later he went back to his BS. Nightmare.  
I’v been his back up plan for 2 years but no more. 13 weeks no contact. It’s been horrific and I know I still love him but I’m not going to be his back up plan or side dish any more. 
Anyway I think you should try your best to distance yourself from him. Spend time with your kids, try NC. He needs to end his marriage without you in the picture if there is any future for you as a couple. Walk away, if he loves you as deeply as you think he will sort out the mess of his marriage to be with you. 
Sending hugs, you are not alone. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, MadlyDeeply said:

Bailey do you think it's ever possible for a leopard to change its spots? I know it seems hard to believe, that's why I question it all the time cause trying to protect my heart but surely players can fall in love eventually.

I truly love this man I couldn't risk breaking up our family unit just for fun. 

I agree with Starswillshine, as a serial cheat he is not out there playing the field, looking for “the love of his life” - despite what he may tell you. 

While I do believe that people grow and change, I also believe that a person’s true character does not change. This man has cheated on his wife for YEARS with MULTIPLE women - that is an indication of his character - he has broken the trust of the one woman he vowed to love and protect for all her life. He has lied to her every single day, betrayed her in the worst way a man can betray a woman, and put her health at risk without her knowledge. That is not a man that you want in your life... because as Starswillshine said, if he was your partner the next time he “stayed late at work” you will be wondering if he is having drinks with his coworker, grooming another woman for an extramarital affair... lying to you, and putting your health at risk.

As to not wanting to risk breaking up your family unit just for fun... you already have. Men generally don’t appreciate wives who have sex with other men - if your husband was to find out, it’s entirely possible that you will find yourself on the outside looking in... I realize that you have feelings for this man, but with a little time and distance I think you will understand better just how much you have risked and for what? 

Edited March 15, 2020 by BaileyB

[Amethyst68]

Quote

I doubt that will happen as she must have known about his multiple affairs over the years but has turned a blind eye to them.

That is a massive assumption to make. The majority of MM or I should say MP become expert liars, manipulators and gaslighte all to prevent their spouse finding out. Read an infidelity board sometime, one that has some real movement on it, the one here is quite stagnant at the moment. You'll find out that yes some  do suspect but a large number are completely blindsided by the affair and deceit.

Yes, there really are people out there surprised to to find out their so is a serial cheat or had alta simply because it's simply not part of their character makeup so they trust their partner.

[Starswillshine]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

That is a massive assumption to make. The majority of MM or I should say MP become expert liars, manipulators and gaslighte all to prevent their spouse finding out. Read an infidelity board sometime, one that has some real movement on it, the one here is quite stagnant at the moment. You'll find out that yes some  do suspect but a large number are completely blindsided by the affair and deceit.

Yes, there really are people out there surprised to to find out their so is a serial cheat or had alta simply because it's simply not part of their character makeup so they trust their partner.

This is very true.

I was married to a serial cheat. I didn't know. I certainly didnt turn a blind eye because when I found out, I divorced. When he was in his last affair, I noticed that he was a little more attached to his phone. It was a change in his behavior. He typically just came in and put it on the counter and never touched it. Then it just stayed with him. He would get nervous if I used it for anything (this was common to grab each others phones to look up something on the internet if our own phone wasnt near by). I trusted my husband. And I trusted that when I sat down with him and asked if something was going, I trusted him when he told me no way. And he was kind and understanding and super apologetic that his behaviors caused me stress. I believe his words were something like, "Oh no, I love you so freaking much, I would never risk us and the magic we share." It was a lie. He had just come back from vacation with his OW (he traveled a lot for work). We were on vacation at the time. It was all a lie. 

My ex was a serial cheat. He lied to a lot of the OWs in his life. He told a good bit of them that he was divorced. But he was also very upfront that he was just wanting to have fun and keep things casual. They were all good with that. Until the last one. While he actually was honest with her (he told her he was happily married with kids) and they had discussed things being casual. She wasnt just a casual girl who would sit back and be ok with being contacted every couple of months or so. She wanted constant contact. She would get angry when he wouldnt reply to her texts. You play with fire, you're bound to get burned right? So he found the crazy one. And that relationship with that OW became much more than any of the others. And I think in part because she refuse to just stay in her place. And he had to play the game as well. 

We divorced, he isnt with her despite being fully free to do so. She, of course, blames me. That it is me that keeps them apart. I'm happily moved on. In another relationship. Nothing to do with me. But just as he lied to me, he lied to her. To keep her in line. To get his ego stroked. I mean, he thought he was big ^&#% that some girl was going crazy over him. 

Anyway, I give my story as the other side of dealing with a serial cheat. They are the worst manipulators. Everyone was completley shocked. We were that couple everyone wanted to be. We loved each other (so it seemed). Everyone said, "it was so obvious he was crazy about you." He never went a day without insane professions of love. He poured it on thick. 

He was also a liar, a manipulator, and a complete fake. And continues to be so even years after divorce. 

[Beca L]

4 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

That is a massive assumption to make. The majority of MM or I should say MP become expert liars, manipulators and gaslighte all to prevent their spouse finding out. Read an infidelity board sometime, one that has some real movement on it, the one here is quite stagnant at the moment. You'll find out that yes some  do suspect but a large number are completely blindsided by the affair and deceit.

Ok maybe it was a sweeping generalisation. But your experience of affairs OW/OM is based on someone in your family. You haven’t been in an affair yourself as the OW or the BS. I think you are being naive. I don’t believe that you can be married for 34 yrs to a serial cheater and not suspect a thing. Yes, she may not have know if they were definitely cheating but I bet she had her suspicions yet she did nothing. My xmm’s BS knew that he was still contacting me and after his return but she did not chuck him out or end the marriage. She chose to do nothing. These women / men are just as weak as us OW/OM they are also unable to walk away from these entitled, lying manipulative cheats.
It’s the sad truth. 

[Beca L]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

My ex was a serial cheat. He lied to a lot of the OWs in his life. He told a good bit of them that he was divorced. But he was also very upfront that he was just wanting to have fun and keep things casual. They were all good with that. Until the last one. While he actually was honest with her (he told her he was happily married with kids) and they had discussed things being casual. She wasnt just a casual girl who would sit back and be ok with being contacted every couple of months or so. She wanted constant contact. She would get angry when he wouldnt reply to her texts. You play with fire, you're bound to get burned right? So he found the crazy one. And that relationship with that OW became much more than any of the others. And I think in part because she refuse to just stay in her place. And he had to play the game as well. 

How do you know all this info? If you didn’t know about his cheating ? Did he tell you ? How can you believe anything he says ?

its very hard if you have never been the OW to understand our thought process or how we might feel. You are looking at it from the BS’s position. I have great empathy for @MadlyDeeply and she is going through a terrible time. Her MM could be everything that you describe but she has to find that out for herself. She should do NC and if he truly does love her and want a relationship then he should end his marriage. Maybe he had changed but I doubt it. 

[Starswillshine]

2 minutes ago, Beca L said:

How do you know all this info? If you didn’t know about his cheating ? Did he tell you ? How can you believe anything he says ?

its very hard if you have never been the OW to understand our thought process or how we might feel. You are looking at it from the BS’s position. I have great empathy for @MadlyDeeply and she is going through a terrible time. Her MM could be everything that you describe but she has to find that out for herself. She should do NC and if he truly does love her and want a relationship then he should end his marriage. Maybe he had changed but I doubt it. 

I know this from conversations I have had with his OWs. The crazy OW and I have had many, many conversations. Trying to piece together what the heck was true and what was lies. 

I also know how OW feels because she has told me such. I also have been a part of her wrath because she believes I am the cause of them not being together... because that is the excuse he has given her... even long after we have been divorced. 

[Starswillshine]

Because bet your rear, I did not believe one word that came out of his mouth when I found out he was cheating. Nothing he said, I could believed. 

So I verified. 

[Beca L]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Because bet your rear, I did not believe one word that came out of his mouth when I found out he was cheating. Nothing he said, I could believed. 

So I verified. 

I think you did everything right and I’m glad you got the true facts. I wish my xmm’s BS had asked for my opinion or info about what had happened. She blames me for everything. She thinks I set out to get her man which is so far from the truth. She seems to think he was brain washed or something. I guess not all BS act like you did. Listening to lots of stories on this thread I think you are the exception to the rule. A lot of BS just forgive and take back WS and blame the OW/OM. They believe WS lies as it makes them feel better that they’ve taken back a deceitful, cheating spouse. Otherwise it doesn’t sit well with them.